BACKSLIDERS

Hello again, old friends! Welcome to Season Two of Backsliders! In this episode, we (Keylee and Micah) sit down just the two of us and talk about some of the questions and themes we’ve been ruminating on throughout this very challenging last year (okay, last few years). We talk candidly about grief, loss, the parallels of facing a loved one's terminal illness and facing a global pandemic, the importance of self-compassion, learning to pursue progress and not perfection, and most importantly: how we still don’t really know much of anything. We hope this conversation brings you some sense of connection and makes you feel less alone. We will be releasing the episodes we recorded in our early 2020 lockdown, as well as some new conversations we plan to have with friends old and new in 2021. Thanks so much for listening. Stay safe and be well. [NEW NEWS] If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival and the Tribeca Creators Market sponsored by HBO! Check out our new episode by clicking here. [OUR LINKS] Backsliders Instagram Bob Billiams Productions Instagram Facebook Twitter Keylee Instagram Micah Instagram [CREDITS] Poster Photography by Claude Charles Intro Music "7.2.19" by Chase Burnett Outro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia Nunes Title Animation/Poster art by Cody Walzel Special Thanks to Angie Charles [FREE WAYS TO SUPPORT BACKSLIDERS] Please consider these free things you can do to help our projects reach others! 1) Subscribe to this podcast! 2) Leave us a 5-star rating and a one-sentence review! 3) Share your favorite episode with your friends or in a group you're a part of! 4) Subscribe to our Youtube Channel and leave us a comment! Thank you so much for your support!  [WATCH OUR OTHER SHOWS] Backsliders the series Home the series Talk the series [REACH OUT] We'd love to hear from you directly! Let's talk about what we were raised to believe, where we are now, and how that affects our relationships with others and ourselves. keylee@bbobbilliams.com micah@bobbilliams.com  

Happy Black History Month! On this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our new friend, Dianca London Potts, a brilliant and hilarious author currently working and residing in Brooklyn. Her memoir, Planning for the Apocalypse: Meditations on Faith and Being the Only Black Girl at Your Party, is forthcoming from 37 Ink. We chat with Dianca about her experience growing up in a rural, conservative suburb outside of Philadelphia in the 90s, going to many different types of churches, and getting her elementary education in a very restrictive, nationalist, fundamental baptist school. We also dive into her high school experience in a Mennonite school, where being in a new space that wasn’t Christian-nationalist opened her up to feel comfortable questioning things like not only her nation and her country’s history but her faith community’s history as well. After high school, Dianca attended a Christian university in New England for two years, where her studies made her become even more interested in viewing the bible and sacred text as something of literary relevance that needs interpretation and context, and not something that is “just Truth with a capital T.” However, even this collegiate Christian environment was still seeped in conservatism, and she still had to deal with unique strains of racism and prejudice that took a toll on her mental health. She decided she had to leave the Christian university and complete the final years of her higher education at a secular university, Temple. She talks with us about how she is still in process of deconstructing her fundamentalist upbringing, and probably always will be. But as she’s been digging into her family’s history (especially on her mother’s side of her family, with her great-grandfather founding a Church), she feels like the Black church has been a bedrock of stability in offering things that the government still fails to offer, and also as a place of collective resistance against white supremacy and collective action for civil rights. She feels like it (Christianity) is a broken thing, but there are parts of it that she’s proud of, and to disavow herself as a Black American from that history would be “really strange.” She feels like she’s ‘culturally christian’ in that way, (something she knows her parents will probably react to with, “What are you saying?”). Dianca also shared with us that when she thinks about what matters most to her from everything that she was either raised to believe or she walked away believing from how she was raised, it’s the radical love of “Christ as the archetype.” She views Christ as a story archetype and model for how to be ethically, sympathetically, and inclusively human. “Jesus the archetype as a model for radical love, and how to care not only for each other but for ourselves.” She thinks that makes her "christian-adjacent," or culturally christian, descriptions she says usually make everyone uncomfortable, but it’s right for her. This conversation goes deep. We even talk about subjects like the blasphemy of white evangelical Christianity, the hypocrisy of virtue-signaling, and the power of simply holding space and listening. We think this is one of the best conversations we've had on our whole show so far. :) We hope you enjoy our conversation with Dianca as much as we did, and please show support for her artistry by subscribing to her newsletter and following her on social media! All links are below. [CONNECT WITH DIANCA] Newsletter Tumblr Instagram Twitter [OUR LINKS] Backsliders Instagram Bob Billiams Productions Instagram Facebook Twitter Keylee Instagram Micah Instagram [CREDITS] Sound Mixing by Darren Augustus Videography and Photography by Claude Charles Intro Music "7.2.19" by Chase Burnett Outro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia Nunes Title Animation/Poster art by Cody Walzel Special Thanks to Angie Charles [FREE WAYS TO SUPPORT BACKSLIDERS] Please consider these free things you can do to help our projects reach others! 1) Subscribe to this podcast! 2) Leave us a 5-star rating and a one-sentence review! 3) Share your favorite episode with your friends or in a group you're a part of! 4) Subscribe to our Youtube Channel and leave us a comment! Thank you so much for your support!  [WATCH OUR OTHER SHOWS] Backsliders the series Home the series Talk the series [REACH OUT] We'd love to hear from you directly! Let's talk about what we were raised to believe, where we are now, and how that affects our relationships with others and ourselves! keylee@bbobbilliams.com micah@bobbilliams.com

Happy Pride Month! On this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our new friend, Kristina Cunningham, of the blog and Instagram account Transitional Christian. Kristina grew up in the Ozark Mountains in a very fundamentalist family. Her childhood was spent going to an independent church that wasn't connected to any other larger denomination. She describes her family's church as a "little shack in the woods" where the entire congregation consisted of 45 people...all her family members. Aside from the tent revival preachers that would pass through, her church congregation kept to themselves and believed that all outsiders were going to hell. She remembers praying by the time she was four or five that she would wake up in the body she knew she was—a girl. But little Kristina belonged to a church that every Sunday was talking about "those homosexuals and trans folks that were abominations of God." Kristina's family didn't even own a TV growing up, and she first learned about the real existence of other queer people when she went to a video store at 17 years old. This made her finally feel like she could have options and maybe even find acceptance of her true self, outside of the family she was born into. Kristina talks with us about her experience with homelessness after being outed by her boyfriend in high school, and how the greatest people she ever met were those she met while living on the street. While Kristina admits she went through many years of being angry with the image of God, she now finds peace in spirituality outside of religion and sees God in connection and nature. This is a great conversation and we hope you enjoy it as much as we did! Note from Key and Micah: We apologize for our delay in releasing this latest episode. We have been taking a pause to listen, reflect, and take actions in this fight to dismantle hatred in all its current forms throughout our nation. We want to state that we are not only committed to being allies to the LGBTQ+ community, but we are committed to anti-racism. We stand with the Black Lives Matter movement and its goal to dismantle systemic racism, white supremacy, and end the unjust murders and abuse of precious black lives. We hope you do, too. We created a new page with a compilation of some helpful resources on large and small actions we can all take against racism, as well as other accounts to follow from anti-racism advocates, leaders, and teachers. This resource hub will be permanently featured on our website. Check it out here. NEW NEWS: If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival and the Tribeca Creators Market sponsored by HBO! Check out our new episode by clicking here. CONNECT WITH KRISTINA Transitional Christian Blog Instagram OUR LINKS Backsliders Instagram Bob Billiams Productions Instagram Facebook Twitter Keylee Instagram Micah Instagram CREDITS Sound Mixing by Darren Augustus Videography and Photography by Claude Charles Intro Music "7.2.19" by Chase Burnett Outro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia Nunes Title Animation/Poster art by Cody Walzel Special Thanks to Angie Charles FREE WAYS TO SUPPORT BACKSLIDERS If you can't give financially, we understand. Please consider these free things you can do to help our projects reach others! 1) Subscribe to this podcast! 2) Leave us a 5-star rating and a one-sentence review! 3) Share your favorite episode with your friends or in a group you're a part of! 4) Subscribe to our Youtube Channel and leave us a comment! Thank you so much for your support!  WATCH OUR OTHER SHOWS Backsliders the series Home the series Talk the series REACH OUT We'd love to hear from you directly! Let's talk about what we were raised to believe, where we are now, and how that affects our relationships with others and ourselves! keylee@bbobbilliams.com micah@bobbilliams.com

Happy Pride Month! On this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our new friend, Kristina Cunningham, of the blog and Instagram account Transitional Christian. Kristina grew up in the Ozark Mountains in a very fundamentalist family. Her childhood was spent going to an independent church that wasn't connected to any other larger denomination. She describes her family's church as a "little shack in the woods" where the entire congregation consisted of 45 people...all her family members. Aside from the tent revival preachers that would pass through, her church congregation kept to themselves and believed that all outsiders were going to hell. She remembers praying by the time she was four or five that she would wake up in the body she knew she was—a girl. But little Kristina belonged to a church that every Sunday was talking about "those homosexuals and trans folks that were abominations of God." Kristina's family didn't even own a TV growing up, and she first learned about the real existence of other queer people when she went to a video store at 17 years old. This made her finally feel like she could have options and maybe even find acceptance of her true self, outside of the family she was born into. Kristina talks with us about her experience with homelessness after being outed by her boyfriend in high school, and how the greatest people she ever met were those she met while living on the street. While Kristina admits she went through many years of being angry with the image of God, she now finds peace in spirituality outside of fundamentalist rigidity and sees God in love, connection and nature. This is a great conversation and we hope you enjoy it as much as we did! Note from Key and Micah: We apologize for our delay in releasing this latest episode. We have been taking a pause to listen, reflect, and take actions in this fight to dismantle hatred in all its current forms throughout our nation. We want to state that we are not only committed to being allies to the LGBTQ+ community, but we are committed to anti-racism. We stand with the Black Lives Matter movement and its goal to dismantle systemic racism, white supremacy, and end the unjust murders and abuse of precious black lives. We hope you do, too. We created a new page with a compilation of some helpful resources on large and small actions we can all take against racism, as well as other accounts to follow from anti-racism advocates, leaders, and teachers. This resource hub will be permanently featured on our website. Check it out here. NEW NEWS: If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival and the Tribeca Creators Market sponsored by HBO! Check out our new episode by clicking here. CONNECT WITH KRISTINA Transitional Christian Blog Instagram OUR LINKS Backsliders Instagram Bob Billiams Productions Instagram Facebook Twitter Keylee Instagram Micah Instagram CREDITS Sound Mixing by Darren Augustus Videography and Photography by Claude Charles Intro Music "7.2.19" by Chase Burnett Outro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia Nunes Title Animation/Poster art by Cody Walzel Special Thanks to Angie Charles FREE WAYS TO SUPPORT BACKSLIDERS If you can't give financially, we understand. Please consider these free things you can do to help our projects reach others! 1) Subscribe to this podcast! 2) Leave us a 5-star rating and a one-sentence review! 3) Share your favorite episode with your friends or in a group you're a part of! 4) Subscribe to our Youtube Channel and leave us a comment! Thank you so much for your support!  WATCH OUR OTHER SHOWS Backsliders the series Home the series Talk the series REACH OUT We'd love to hear from you directly! Let's talk about what we were raised to believe, where we are now, and how that affects our relationships with others and ourselves! keylee@bbobbilliams.com micah@bobbilliams.com

On this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our friend, fellow actor/writer/director/producer Jason Nguyen. Jason was born in Vietnam and moved to the U.S. when he was really young. We talk with him about his upbringing in a Buddhist household in Vancouver, Washington. His parents were spiritual people but Jason felt like he had to piece together their beliefs as if they were the Zodiac Killer. He tells us stories about going to Temple as a child and how he thought it was a Vietnamese community space for immigrant families to get to know each other, but he didn’t really know what the monks were doing. Jason thinks about death a lot, and deals with being depressed by talking to other people about how they stay positive (Check out his podcast Stay Positive!). Other fun topics in this episode include: some superstitions that Jason’s parents held, how Jason first heard about Jesus and hell, the first time he stepped foot in a church, meditation, and more. NEW NEWS: If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival and the Tribeca Creators Market sponsored by HBO! Check out our new episode by clicking here.   CONNECT WITH JASON Stay Positive PodcastInstagramTwitter   OUR LINKS Backsliders Instagram Bob Billiams Productions Instagram Facebook Twitter Keylee Instagram Micah Instagram   CREDITS Sound Mixing by Darren Augustus Videography and Photography by Claude Charles Intro Music "7.2.19" by Chase Burnett Outro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia Nunes Title Animation/Poster art by Cody Walzel Special Thanks to Angie Charles   HOW YOU CAN SUPPORT BACKSLIDERSIf you enjoy our show and are able to give, we kindly ask for a donation of your choice via Venmo. Think of it like buying a latte for a friend when you can't leave your house. :) Venmo Donation Link: https://venmo.com/keylee-sudduth PayPal Donation Link: https://paypal.me/bobbilliams   FREE WAYS TO SUPPORT BACKSLIDERS If you can't give financially, we understand. Please consider these free things you can do to help our projects reach others! 1) Subscribe to this podcast! 2) Leave us a 5-star rating and a one-sentence review! 3) Share your favorite episode with your friends or in a group you're a part of! 4) Subscribe to our Youtube Channel and leave us a comment! Thank you so much for your support!   WATCH OUR OTHER SHOWS Backsliders the series Home the series Talk the series   REACH OUT We'd love to hear from you directly! Let's talk about what we were raised to believe, where we are now, and how that affects our relationships with others and ourselves! keylee@bbobbilliams.com micah@bobbilliams.com

On this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our friend and filmmaker Sarah Joy Byington! Sarah was raised in Austin in an Evangelical Christian home that at times was more legalistic in nature. She was homeschooled until her sophomore year of high school, once her parents separated and she started taking care of her siblings after school while her mom worked. We talk with Sarah about her experience at a Christian film program, meeting her husband, and how the experience of becoming a mother has taken her faith to a deeper level. Right now, she says she is still figuring out what she believes and is becoming more and more comfortable asking questions and embracing uncertainty. Other topics we cover: learning to overcome the fear of what other people( particularly Christian family/peers) might think of you, the controversy of dressing up for Halloween, Christianity and social activism, the desire to go off the grid, feminism, purity culture, Micah’s yogi Jesus computer background, and more. NEW NEWS: If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival and the Tribeca Creators Market sponsored by HBO! Check out our new episode by clicking here.   CONNECT WITH SARAH  Sarah's Instagram Let Me Do Right by You - Film - Instagram   OUR LINKS Backsliders Instagram Bob Billiams Productions Instagram Facebook Twitter Keylee Instagram Micah Instagram   CREDITS Sound Mixing by Darren Augustus Videography and Photography by Claude Charles Intro Music "7.2.19" by Chase Burnett Outro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia Nunes Title Animation/Poster art by Cody Walzel Special Thanks to Angie Charles   HOW YOU CAN SUPPORT BACKSLIDERSIf you enjoy our show and are able to give, we kindly ask for a donation of your choice via Venmo. Think of it like buying a latte for a friend when you can't leave your house. :) Venmo Donation Link: https://venmo.com/keylee-sudduth PayPal Donation Link: https://paypal.me/bobbilliams   FREE WAYS TO SUPPORT BACKSLIDERS If you can't give financially, we understand. Please consider these free things you can do to help our projects reach others! 1) Subscribe to this podcast! 2) Leave us a 5-star rating and a one-sentence review! 3) Share your favorite episode with your friends or in a group you're a part of! 4) Subscribe to our Youtube Channel and leave us a comment! Thank you so much for your support!   WATCH OUR OTHER SHOWS Backsliders the series Home the series Talk the series   REACH OUT We'd love to hear from you directly! Let's talk about what we were raised to believe, where we are now, and how that affects our relationships with others and ourselves! keylee@bbobbilliams.com micah@bobbilliams.com  

On this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our friend and filmmaker Sarah Butler! Sarah was raised in Austin in an Evangelical Christian home that at times was more legalistic in nature. She was homeschooled until her sophomore year of high school, once her parents separated and she started taking care of her siblings after school while her mom worked. We talk with Sarah about her experience at a Christian film program, meeting her husband, and how the experience of becoming a mother has taken her faith to a deeper level. Right now, she says she is still figuring out what she believes and is becoming more and more comfortable asking questions and embracing uncertainty. Other topics we cover: learning to overcome the fear of what other people( particularly Christian family/peers) might think of you, the controversy of dressing up for Halloween, Christianity and social activism, the desire to go off the grid, feminism, purity culture, Micah’s yogi Jesus computer background, and more. NEW NEWS: If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival and the Tribeca Creators Market sponsored by HBO! Check out our new episode by clicking here.   CONNECT WITH SARAH  Sarah's Instagram Let Me Do Right by You - Film - Instagram   OUR LINKS Backsliders Instagram Bob Billiams Productions Instagram Facebook Twitter Keylee Instagram Micah Instagram   CREDITS Sound Mixing by Darren Augustus Videography and Photography by Claude Charles Intro Music "7.2.19" by Chase Burnett Outro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia Nunes Title Animation/Poster art by Cody Walzel Special Thanks to Angie Charles   HOW YOU CAN SUPPORT BACKSLIDERSIf you enjoy our show and are able to give, we kindly ask for a donation of your choice via Venmo. Think of it like buying a latte for a friend when you can't leave your house. :) Venmo Donation Link: https://venmo.com/keylee-sudduth PayPal Donation Link: https://paypal.me/bobbilliams   FREE WAYS TO SUPPORT BACKSLIDERS If you can't give financially, we understand. Please consider these free things you can do to help our projects reach others! 1) Subscribe to this podcast! 2) Leave us a 5-star rating and a one-sentence review! 3) Share your favorite episode with your friends or in a group you're a part of! 4) Subscribe to our Youtube Channel and leave us a comment! Thank you so much for your support!   WATCH OUR OTHER SHOWS Backsliders the series Home the series Talk the series   REACH OUT We'd love to hear from you directly! Let's talk about what we were raised to believe, where we are now, and how that affects our relationships with others and ourselves! keylee@bbobbilliams.com micah@bobbilliams.com  

On this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our friend and fellow writer, producer Nick Morton! Nick was raised Catholic and went to an Episcopalian boarding school. We talk with Nick about his upbringing, the fear of hell, and some valuable lessons he learned at Georgetown (like the effectiveness of action, recognizing that change is inevitable and that itself is divinity). After graduating from college and spending 18 years in LA, Nick got sober and re-evaluated his spirituality through AA’s encouragement of a relationship with a Higher Power. He doesn’t believe in hell or pray, but he believes that God sends him challenges to make him stronger. Nick is now a father and he tells us some funny stories about sending his kids to a Jewish school and Episcopalian school as a non-religious person. Other topics include: finding divinity in the present moment, meditation, releasing control, helping others to help yourself, etc. **Note: This episode was recorded in-person weeks before the COVID-19 quarantine was enacted. Keep staying home and social distancing, y'all.** NEW NEWS: If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival and the Tribeca Creators Market sponsored by HBO! Check out our new episode by clicking here.   CONNECT WITH NICK Drunkalogues Podcast Twitter Instagram   OUR LINKS Backsliders Instagram Bob Billiams Productions Instagram Facebook Twitter Keylee Instagram Micah Instagram   CREDITS Sound Mixing by Darren Augustus Videography and Photography by Claude Charles Intro Music "7.2.19" by Chase Burnett Outro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia Nunes Title Animation/Poster art by Cody Walzel Special Thanks to Angie Charles   HOW YOU CAN SUPPORT BACKSLIDERSIf you enjoy our show and are able to give, we kindly ask for a donation of your choice via Venmo. Think of it like buying a latte for a friend when you can't leave your house. :) Venmo Donation Link: https://venmo.com/keylee-sudduth PayPal Donation Link: https://paypal.me/bobbilliams   FREE WAYS TO SUPPORT BACKSLIDERS If you can't give financially, we understand. Please consider these free things you can do to help our projects reach others! 1) Subscribe to this podcast! 2) Leave us a 5-star rating and a one-sentence review! 3) Share your favorite episode with your friends or in a group you're a part of! 4) Subscribe to our Youtube Channel and leave us a comment! Thank you so much for your support!   WATCH OUR OTHER SHOWS Backsliders the series Home the series Talk the series   REACH OUT We'd love to hear from you directly! Let's talk about what we were raised to believe, where we are now, and how that affects our relationships with others and ourselves! keylee@bbobbilliams.com micah@bobbilliams.com

In this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our new friend Brenda Marie Davies. Brenda is from New Jersey and grew up 'Casual Catholic' before going to a non-denominational evangelical church when she was in middle school. Brenda has always been a passionate, outspoken person. We talk with her about how she went from being a leader in her youth group, praying on the front lawn of her school, organizing a purity ceremony with her friends, arguing with her science teacher about creationism--to eventually deconstructing her fundamental Christian views in a public forum. Brenda tells us the story of how she aligned her sexuality with her spirituality and became inspired to create the sex-positive, LGBTQ-affirming, science-affirming progressive Christian YouTube channel God is Grey. Brenda proudly identifies as a Christian and believes Jesus was a feminist, a teacher, and inclusive to the core. We loved having her on the show and hope you enjoy our conversation! NEW NEWS: If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival and the Tribeca Creators Market sponsored by HBO! Check out our new episode by clicking here. https://youtu.be/eQpFKO6IxDI CONNECT WITH BRENDA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1Xf6ScN9riYhTOUsvhkhaw/featuredhttps://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/god-is-grey/id1437717099?mt=2https://www.instagram.com/godisgrey/ OUR LINKS Backsliders Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/backslidersshow/ Bob Billiams Productions Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebobbilliams Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thebobbilliams Bob Billiams Productions website: Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/thebobbilliams Keylee Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/keyleemakes Micah Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/micah_sudduth CREDITS Sound Mixing by Darren Augustus: http://www.darrenaugustus.com/ Videography and Photography by Claude Charles: https://www.shotsbytopnotch.com/ Intro Music "7.2.19" by Chase Burnett: https://chaseburnett.bandcamp.com/track/7219 Outro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia Nunes: https://chaseburnett.bandcamp.com/track/stay-mad-71519 Title Animation/Poster art by Cody Walzel: https://codywalzel.com/ Special Thanks to Angie Charles: https://www.instagram.com/topnotchbodbyang/ HOW YOU CAN SUPPORT BACKSLIDERSIf you enjoy our show and are able to give, we kindly ask for a donation of your choice via Venmo. Think of it like buying a latte for a friend when you can't leave your house. :) Venmo Donation Link: https://venmo.com/keylee-sudduth PayPal Donation Link: https://paypal.me/bobbilliams FREE WAYS TO SUPPORT BACKSLIDERS If you can't give financially, we understand. Please consider these free things you can do to help our projects reach others! 1) Subscribe to this podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or Podbean! 2) Leave us a 5-star rating and a one-sentence review! 3) Share your favorite episode with your friends or in a group you're a part of! 4) Subscribe to our Youtube Channel and leave us a comment! Thank you so much for your support!   WATCH OUR OTHER SHOWS Backsliders the series: https://youtu.be/0Eyrd4x0xs0 Home the series: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaLr_U_Ej0HnhzV1CxL_j-LTKAwdEdTST Talk the series: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaLr_U_Ej0Hmye_iODsdIgjUsOjpsz5ma   REACH OUT We'd love to hear from you directly! Let's talk about what we were raised to believe, where we are now, and how that affects our relationships with others and ourselves! keylee@bbobbilliams.com micah@bobbilliams.com

In this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our new friend Olivia Fae Marie Wolcott. Olivia grew up in Pennsylvania in a very conservative community with four churches on each corner. She was raised Fundamental Independent Baptist, fundamental in doctrine but not affiliated with any Baptist conference. Her environment was very strict. Dancing was not allowed, and neither was rock and roll. Olivia found our podcast after she recently came out as transgender and was looking for community and understanding from other people who had grown up in fundamentalism and were publicly processing how that affected them. We talk with Olivia about the pain she experienced as a child, feeling like she couldn't be herself, and how she finally found the courage to live the life she knew was truly hers. Other topics we touch on: the power of storytelling and poetry, finding love and acceptance outside of religion, connecting with God through nature, and more. NEW NEWS: If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival and the Tribeca Creators Market sponsored by HBO! Check out our new episode by clicking here. https://youtu.be/eQpFKO6IxDI   CONNECT WITH OLIVIAFacebook   OUR LINKS Backsliders Instagram Bob Billiams Productions Instagram Facebook Twitter Keylee Instagram Micah Instagram   CREDITS Sound Mixing by Darren Augustus Videography and Photography by Claude Charles Intro Music "7.2.19" by Chase Burnett Outro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia Nunes Title Animation/Poster art by Cody Walzel Special Thanks to Angie Charles   HOW YOU CAN SUPPORT BACKSLIDERSIf you enjoy our show and are able to give, we kindly ask for a donation of your choice via Venmo. Think of it like buying a latte for a friend when you can't leave your house. :) Venmo Donation Link: https://venmo.com/keylee-sudduth PayPal Donation Link: https://paypal.me/bobbilliams   FREE WAYS TO SUPPORT BACKSLIDERS If you can't give financially, we understand. Please consider these free things you can do to help our projects reach others! 1) Subscribe to this podcast! 2) Leave us a 5-star rating and a one-sentence review! 3) Share your favorite episode with your friends or in a group you're a part of! 4) Subscribe to our Youtube Channel and leave us a comment! Thank you so much for your support!   WATCH OUR OTHER SHOWS Backsliders the series Home the series Talk the series   REACH OUT We'd love to hear from you directly! Let's talk about what we were raised to believe, where we are now, and how that affects our relationships with others and ourselves! keylee@bbobbilliams.com micah@bobbilliams.com

In this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our new friend Olivia Fae Marie Wolcott. Olivia grew up in Pennsylvania in a very conservative community with four churches on each corner. She was raised Fundamental Independent Baptist, fundamental in doctrine but not affiliated with any Baptist conference. Her environment was very strict. Dancing was not allowed, and neither was rock and roll. Olivia found our podcast after she recently came out as transgender and was looking for community and understanding from other people who had grown up in fundamentalism and were publicly processing how that affected them. We talk with Olivia about the pain she experienced as a child, feeling like she couldn't be herself, and how she finally found the courage to live the life she knew was truly hers. Other topics we touch on: the power of storytelling and poetry, finding love and acceptance outside of religion, connecting with God through nature, and more. NEW NEWS: If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival and the Tribeca Creators Market sponsored by HBO! Check out our new episode by clicking here. https://youtu.be/eQpFKO6IxDI   CONNECT WITH OLIVIAFacebook   OUR LINKS Backsliders Instagram Bob Billiams Productions Instagram Facebook Twitter Keylee Instagram Micah Instagram   CREDITS Sound Mixing by Darren Augustus Videography and Photography by Claude Charles Intro Music "7.2.19" by Chase Burnett Outro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia Nunes Title Animation/Poster art by Cody Walzel Special Thanks to Angie Charles   HOW YOU CAN SUPPORT BACKSLIDERSIf you enjoy our show and are able to give, we kindly ask for a donation of your choice via Venmo. Think of it like buying a latte for a friend when you can't leave your house. :) Venmo Donation Link: https://venmo.com/keylee-sudduth PayPal Donation Link: https://paypal.me/bobbilliams   FREE WAYS TO SUPPORT BACKSLIDERS If you can't give financially, we understand. Please consider these free things you can do to help our projects reach others! 1) Subscribe to this podcast! 2) Leave us a 5-star rating and a one-sentence review! 3) Share your favorite episode with your friends or in a group you're a part of! 4) Subscribe to our Youtube Channel and leave us a comment! Thank you so much for your support!   WATCH OUR OTHER SHOWS Backsliders the series Home the series Talk the series   REACH OUT We'd love to hear from you directly! Let's talk about what we were raised to believe, where we are now, and how that affects our relationships with others and ourselves! keylee@bbobbilliams.com micah@bobbilliams.com

On this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our friend and fellow filmmaker Michael L. Boccalini! Michael has had some big changes in his life! He got married! They had a baby! He’s an American citizen (we think)! We have a great talk with Michael about his very non-religious half-Italian half-Swedish upbringing in France and Norway, and his time living in the UK. He tells us stories about his delightful mother, his annoying know-it-all atheist days, and what it's like being married to a pastor’s daughter. We also talk about having a baby and how all of these changes have him feeling a different kind of way about Christianity/religion these days. Other fun topics: some really deep conversations about marriage and divorce, Michael and his wife’s Christian marriage retreat weekend, his first session with a therapist in Norway, why love means calling each other out on our bullshit, and more. NEW NEWS: If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival and the Tribeca Creators Market sponsored by HBO! Check out our new episode by clicking here. We hope it makes you laugh and feel less alone! Subscribe to our Youtube channel for more of our award-winning videos! Here are the sliding scale therapy resources we mentioned: Maple Counseling Center (Los Angeles) OpenPath Collective (virtual, search for your city if you’d like a new therapist after the #saferathome order is dismissed.)   MICHAEL'S LINKS Watch LOVE POSSIBLY on Amazon Prime!  LOVE POSSIBLY Facebook page Michael Instagram Michael Facebook   OUR LINKS Backsliders Instagram Bob Billiams Productions Instagram Facebook Twitter Keylee Instagram Micah Instagram   CREDITS Sound Mixing by Darren Augustus Videography and Photography by Claude Charles Intro Music "7.2.19" by Chase Burnett Outro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia Nunes Title Animation/Poster art by Cody Walzel Special Thanks to Angie Charles   HOW YOU CAN SUPPORT BACKSLIDERSIf you enjoy our show and are able to give, we kindly ask for a donation of your choice via Venmo. Think of it like buying a latte for a friend when you can't leave your house. :) Venmo Donation Link: https://venmo.com/keylee-sudduth PayPal Donation Link: https://paypal.me/bobbilliams   FREE WAYS TO SUPPORT BACKSLIDERS If you can't give financially, we understand. Please consider these free things you can do to help our projects reach others! 1) Subscribe to this podcast! 2) Leave us a 5-star rating and a one-sentence review! 3) Share your favorite episode with your friends or in a group you're a part of! 4) Subscribe to our Youtube Channel and leave us a comment! Thank you so much for your support!   WATCH OUR OTHER SHOWS Backsliders the series Home the series Talk the series   REACH OUT We'd love to hear from you directly! Let's talk about what we were raised to believe, where we are now, and how that affects our relationships with others and ourselves! keylee@bbobbilliams.com micah@bobbilliams.com

On this episode of Backsliders, our special guest is Blake Chastain, writer, producer and host of the popular podcast #Exvangelical. Blake talks with us about his personal journey of deconstruction, how studying the Bible led him to become more socially and politically liberal, and why he decided to start his podcast where he interviews other people who have left Evangelicalism. Other fun topics we touch on include the book “The Heart of the Artist” that Blake had to read when he was on his church’s worship team, why the Christian practice of turning natural human behavior into deviancy is problematic, and why the religious right has been so powerful and effective.  NEW NEWS: If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival! Check out our new episode by clicking here. We hope it makes you laugh and feel less alone!   Blake’s Links To watch Blake on the CBS documentary Deconstructing My Religion, click here. Listen to Blake’s podcast Exvangelical. Read Blake’s new blog Post Exvangelical Post. Exvangelical Website Personal Twitter Personal Instagram Exvangelical Twitter Exvangelical Instagram   OUR LINKS Backsliders Instagram Bob Billiams Productions Instagram Facebook Twitter Keylee Instagram Micah Instagram   CREDITS Sound Mixing by Darren Augustus Videography and Photography by Claude Charles Intro Music "7.2.19" by Chase Burnett Outro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia Nunes Title Animation/Poster art by Cody Walzel Special Thanks to Angie Charles   HOW YOU CAN SUPPORT BACKSLIDERSIf you enjoy our show and are able to give, we kindly ask for a donation of your choice via Venmo. Think of it like buying a latte for a friend when you can't leave your house. :) Venmo Donation Link: https://venmo.com/keylee-sudduth PayPal Donation Link: https://paypal.me/bobbilliams   FREE WAYS TO SUPPORT BACKSLIDERS If you can't give financially, we understand. Please consider these free things you can do to help our projects reach others! 1) Subscribe to this podcast! 2) Leave us a 5-star rating and a one-sentence review! 3) Share your favorite episode with your friends or in a group you're a part of! 4) Subscribe to our Youtube Channel and leave us a comment! Thank you so much for your support!   WATCH OUR OTHER SHOWS Backsliders the series Home the series Talk the series   REACH OUT We'd love to hear from you directly! Let's talk about what we were raised to believe, where we are now, and how that affects our relationships with others and ourselves! keylee@bbobbilliams.com micah @bobbilliams.com

On this episode of Backsliders, our special guest is Blake Chastain, writer, producer and host of the popular podcast #Exvangelical. Blake talks with us about his personal journey of deconstruction, how studying the Bible led him to become more socially and politically liberal, and why he decided to start his podcast where he interviews other people who have left Evangelicalism. Other fun topics we touch on include the book “The Heart of the Artist” that Blake had to read when he was on his church’s worship team, why the Christian practice of turning natural human behavior into deviancy is problematic, and why the religious right has been so powerful and effective.  NEW NEWS: If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival! Check out our new episode by clicking here. We hope it makes you laugh and feel less alone!   Blake’s Links To watch Blake on the CBS documentary Deconstructing My Religion, click here. Listen to Blake’s podcast Exvangelical. Read Blake’s new blog Post Exvangelical Post. Exvangelical Website Personal Twitter Personal Instagram Exvangelical Twitter Exvangelical Instagram   OUR LINKS Backsliders Instagram Bob Billiams Productions Instagram Facebook Twitter Keylee Instagram Micah Instagram   CREDITS Sound Mixing by Darren Augustus Videography and Photography by Claude Charles Intro Music "7.2.19" by Chase Burnett Outro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia Nunes Title Animation/Poster art by Cody Walzel Special Thanks to Angie Charles   HOW YOU CAN SUPPORT BACKSLIDERSIf you enjoy our show and are able to give, we kindly ask for a donation of your choice via Venmo. Think of it like buying a latte for a friend when you can't leave your house. :) Venmo Donation Link: https://venmo.com/keylee-sudduth PayPal Donation Link: https://paypal.me/bobbilliams   FREE WAYS TO SUPPORT BACKSLIDERS If you can't give financially, we understand. Please consider these free things you can do to help our projects reach others! 1) Subscribe to this podcast! 2) Leave us a 5-star rating and a one-sentence review! 3) Share your favorite episode with your friends or in a group you're a part of! 4) Subscribe to our Youtube Channel and leave us a comment! Thank you so much for your support!   WATCH OUR OTHER SHOWS Backsliders the series Home the series Talk the series   REACH OUT We'd love to hear from you directly! Let's talk about what we were raised to believe, where we are now, and how that affects our relationships with others and ourselves! keylee@bbobbilliams.com micah @bobbilliams.com

In this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our good friend Matt Kiel. Matt grew up in Georgia. He was raised Catholic, went to mass every Sunday and was even an altar boy, but he stopped going to church about five years ago. Now, he no longer identifies with any religion. We talk with Matt about the parallels between religious rituals and OCD rituals, how church exacerbated his fears and confusion, and the story of the first time he ever cussed (a table reading for our project Home). Other fun topics include: finding freedom in releasing control, learning to trust yourself after your religion taught you that trusting yourself was wrong, the importance of changing your environment and unlearning beliefs that cause self-harm, the difference between loneliness and solitude, and more. *Note* This episode was recorded in-person weeks before the COVID-19 quarantine was enacted.   NEW NEWS: If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival! Check out our new episode by clicking here. We hope it makes you laugh and feel less alone! BONUS: Matt appeared in Episode Four of our show Home! Watch all 6 episodes of this Tribeca Film Festival 2018 selected series by clicking here.   MATT KIEL LINKS Youtube Instagram Facebook Twitter   OUR LINKS Instagram Facebook Twitter Keylee Instagram Micah Instagram   Credits Sound Mixing by Darren Augustus Videography and Photography by Claude Charles Intro Music "7.2.19" by Chase Burnett Outro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia Nunes Title Animation/Poster art by Cody Walzel Special Thanks to Angie Charles   HOW YOU CAN SUPPORT BACKSLIDERSIf you enjoy our show and are able to give, we kindly ask for a donation of your choice via Venmo. In all honesty, we are both unemployed during this pandemic and could sincerely use any donation you can offer. Think of it like buying a latte for a friend when you can't leave your house. :) Venmo Donation Link: https://venmo.com/keylee-sudduth PayPal Donation Link: https://paypal.me/bobbilliams   CONTACT US Have a question or topic you want to discuss? Want to be a guest on the show? Reach out! Email us at keylee@bobbilliams.com or micah@bobbilliams.com.

**Note: This episode was recorded in-person weeks before the COVID-19 quarantine was enacted. Keep staying home and social distancing, y'all.** In this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our good friend Matt Kiel. Matt grew up in Georgia. He was raised Catholic, went to mass every Sunday and was even an altar boy, but he stopped going to church about five years ago. Now, he no longer identifies with any religion. We talk with Matt about the parallels between religious rituals and OCD rituals, how church exacerbated his fears and confusion, and the story of the first time he ever cussed (at a table reading for our project Home). Other fun topics include: finding freedom in releasing control, learning to trust yourself after your religion taught you that trusting yourself was wrong, the importance of changing your environment and unlearning beliefs that cause self-harm, the difference between loneliness and solitude, and more. *Note* This episode was recorded in-person weeks before the COVID-19 quarantine was enacted. NEW NEWS: If you enjoy this podcast and want to hang out with us a little more, we also have a web series titled Backsliders! This show was recently selected by the Tribeca Film Festival! Check out our new episode by clicking here. We hope it makes you laugh and feel less alone! BONUS: Matt appeared in Episode Four of our show Home! Watch all 6 episodes of this Tribeca Film Festival 2018 selected series by clicking here.   MATT KIEL LINKS Youtube Instagram Facebook Twitter   OUR LINKS Instagram Facebook Twitter Keylee Instagram Micah Instagram   CREDITS Sound Mixing by Darren Augustus Videography and Photography by Claude Charles Intro Music "7.2.19" by Chase Burnett Outro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia Nunes Title Animation/Poster art by Cody Walzel Special Thanks to Angie Charles   HOW YOU CAN SUPPORT BACKSLIDERSIf you enjoy our show and are able to give, we kindly ask for a donation of your choice via Venmo. In all honesty, we are both unemployed during this pandemic and could sincerely use any donation you can offer. Think of it like buying a latte for a friend when you can't leave your house. :) Venmo Donation Link: https://venmo.com/keylee-sudduth PayPal Donation Link: https://paypal.me/bobbilliams   CONTACT US Have a question or topic you want to discuss? Want to be a guest on the show? Reach out! Email us at keylee@bobbilliams.com or micah@bobbilliams.com.

This is the first episode of Backsliders that we recorded via Skype during COVID-19 quarantine. In this episode, we have a wonderful talk with author, speaker, researcher and advocate Linda Kay Klein. Linda is the Founder and President of Break Free Together, a not-for-profit that uses story exchange to help people release shame and claim their whole selves. Her organization was born out of Linda’s 15 years of research documented in her award-winning book (one of Keylee's favorites), "Pure: Inside the Evangelical Movement that Shamed a Generation of Young Women and How I Broke Free." Linda talks with us about her upbringing in Evangelical Christianity, how her experiences in purity culture shaped her view of herself, sex, and Christianity, and where she is in her faith today. We also talk with Linda about the trap of "shiny, happy Christianity," the importance of acknowledging and working through the dark to embrace the light, and how sharing our true stories can be such a powerful tool against shame and isolation.  Linda Kay Klein's Links Website Book Personal Instagram Break Free Together Instagram Twitter Our Links Instagram Facebook Twitter Keylee Instagram Micah Instagram Credits Sound Mixing by Darren Augustus Videography and Photography by Claude Charles Intro Music "7.2.19" by Chase Burnett Outro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia Nunes Title Animation/Poster art by Cody Walzel Special Thanks to Angie Charles HOW YOU CAN SUPPORT BACKSLIDERSIf you enjoy our show and are able to give, we kindly ask for a donation of your choice via Venmo. In all honesty, we are both unemployed during this pandemic and could sincerely use any donation you can offer. Think of it like buying a latte for a friend when you can't leave your house. :) Venmo Donation Link: https://venmo.com/keylee-sudduth PayPal Donation Link: https://paypal.me/bobbilliams ! Have a question or topic you want to discuss? Want to be a guest on the show? Reach out! Email us at keylee@bobbilliams.com or micah@bobbilliams.com.  

In this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our friend, the talented musician Julia Nunes. We met her in a yoga class four years ago and have been through *a lot* together. We talk with Julia about her experience growing up in upstate New York in a non-religious family, surrounded by churches. Other topics include: using art as a way to work through challenges, how feeling “not good enough" manifests, taking care of your body, going to therapy, why self-care isn’t selfish and the importance of healing—with other people. (Also, we live-plan another music video shoot together during this episode.) Note: We offer these podcasts freely because we love these conversations and find them to be healing. We hope you connect with them and maybe even feel less alone as you listen. If you enjoy our show and are able to give, we kindly ask for a donation of your choice via Venmo. Think of it like buying a latte for a friend when you can't leave your house. :)  And if you can't give financially, please consider spending a minute leaving us a short review or sharing our show with a friend. Thank you so much for your support!   Julia's Links YouTube USED TO WANT music video (directed by us!) Spotify Instagram Facebook Pandora Website Our Links Instagram Facebook Twitter Keylee Instagram Micah Instagram Credits Sound Mixing by Darren Augustus Videography and Photography by Claude Charles Intro Music "7.2.19" by Chase Burnett Outro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia Nunes Title Animation/Poster art by Cody Walzel Special Thanks to Angie Charles   Reach out! Have a question or topic you want to discuss? Want to be a guest on the show? Email us at keylee@bobbilliams.com or micah@bobbilliams.com.

In this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our kind and talented human friend Caleb Zlomke. Caleb was raised Evangelical Free and was encouraged to ask a lottttt of questions growing up, which he did—even during mandatory chapel in front of grades K through 12. We talk with him about how he was labeled "the bad kid" in school, his experience at the DIBIMI discipleship program where he traveled the country, and what he thinks about the intelligence of the universe. Other fun topics include televangelism, babbling in tongues, prescriptions and descriptions, and more.   Caleb's Links Instagram Etsy Shop Our Links Instagram Facebook Twitter Keylee Instagram Micah Instagram Credits Sound Mixing by Darren Augustus Videography and Photography by Claude Charles Intro Music "7.2.19" by Chase Burnett Outro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia Nunes Title Animation/Poster art by Cody Walzel Special Thanks to Angie Charles   Reach out! Have a question or topic you want to discuss? Want to be a guest on the show? Email us at keylee@bobbilliams.com or micah@bobbilliams.com.

On this episode of Backsliders, we talk with our lovely and talented friend Nikki McKenzie. Nikki was raised Catholic and still goes to mass sometimes, but her beliefs about God have evolved in big ways over time. We talk with Nikki about the Catholic ritual of confession, her time as an altar boy, how diverse churches have way better choirs, and her cute habit of writing notes to Jesus as a kid. Other fun topics include past life regressions, “seasonal abstinence,” nightmares, and more. BONUS: Nikki also starred in our show Home! Watch all 6 episodes of this Tribeca Film Festival selected series by clicking the link below. She shows up in Episode Two and is there for the rest of the season. You'll love her character! Watch HOME. Nikki's Links Instagram Website Our Links Instagram Facebook Twitter Keylee Instagram Micah Instagram Credits Sound Mixing by Darren Augustus Videography and Photography by Claude Charles Intro Music "7.2.19" by Chase Burnett Outro Music "Stay Mad" by Chase Burnett ft. Julia Nunes Title Animation/Poster art by Cody Walzel Special Thanks to Angie Charles   Reach out! Have a question or topic you want to discuss? Want to be a guest on the show? Email us at keylee@bobbilliams.com or micah@bobbilliams.com.