Cave To The Cross Apologetics

Atheist Knows How God Would Act If He Did Exist Throughout this second part of Stein’s opening, he shows himself to be an atheist who doesn’t believe in God but definitively knows how that god would act if he did exist. Stein attempts to conflate logical contradiction with a psychological ickiness he perceives in the argument for God. Suffering, evil, justice, and how to act are things Stein knows how his made up god would act – a weird thing for someone who claims that he just lacks a belief. TIMELINE: 00:00 – Introduction 02:10 – All God Has To Do Is Appear To A Group Of People For Stein To Believe 06:14 – Stein Is Just Using His Unargued Presuppositions 10:00 – Stein Thinks He His god Wouldn’t Allow Suffering 12:48 – Stein Doesn’t Provide His Basis For Evil Or Good Or Logic 17:04 – Stein Doesn’t Think Sin Or Justice Is Fair 20:55 – Stein Doesn’t Believe In God Because Of Religious Pluralism 21:44 – Stein Sees Christianity As A Failure Because Christians Can Be Bad 24:06 – Stein Should Ask These Questions To A Christian 27:52 – What Does Stein Think He’s Left With? 29:33 – Conclusion BOOK LINKS: The Great Debate – Does God Exist? – Edited and Commentary by Joshua Pillows Debate Transcript Video The Bahnsen Institute       All episodes, short clips, & blog – https://www.cavetothecross.com

Where Can One Stand To Call Out Evil? For the second opening to The Great Debate, Dr. Stein wants to call out Christians for not having any good proofs and also having a system that allows evil to be present in a world created by God. However, one must ask, where can one stand to call out evil? Or even good for that matter. TIMELINE: 00:00 – Introduction 02:34 – Two Main Cases For Why God’s Existence Hasn’t Been Proven 03:34 – Long Period Of Time With Failure Of Main Arguments For God’s Existence 06:37 – The Problem Of Evil Is An Issue For Theists 08:02 – God Definitely Doesn’t Exist But If He Did Exist He Wouldn’t Allow Evil 09:23 – Atheists Fail To Establish An Evil Standard Exists For Them To Use The Problem Of Evil 12:57 – Stein Not Convinced Of Next Life Justice Takes Care Of Evil 16:15 – Stein Allows For God Not To Be All Powerful – Uses Specific Christian Attack 17:22 – Stein Does Not Buy The Free Will Defense – One That Bahnsen Didn’t Make 18:04 – The Atheist Putting Onto The Christian Elements Of Their Worldview 22:48 – Conclusion BOOK LINKS: The Great Debate – Does God Exist? – Edited and Commentary by Joshua Pillows Debate Transcript Video The Bahnsen Institute       All episodes, short clips, & blog – https://www.cavetothecross.com

Stein’s Assessment So Far Now it’s Gordon Stein’s turn to assess the debate so far. With Stein’s assessment he believes that Bahnsen hasn’t offered anything other than feelings based arguments and non sequiturs. He doesn’t feel the need to offer an explanation for why the universe exists and he sees laws of science, logic, and math only as agreed upon by consensus items. Why? What’s wrong with that? TIMELINE: 00:00 – Introduction 02:34 – Does The Universe Require A Cause? 03:56 – Looking For How God Created 05:43 – God Is Very Knowable 08:04 – Scientific & Logic Laws Are Just Consensus According To Atheist 11:25 – Philosophical Death Is The Result 12:33 – Math Is Also Consensus 15:27 – An Atheist Universe Has Regularity Because Of Internal Properties 16:56 – The Cause Of The Universe Must Be A Part Of It Says Atheist 20:56 – Do Atheists Destroy All History Or Are Christians Only Feelings-Based? 25:35 – Stein Finally Deals With The Transcendental Argument 31:04 – Conclusion BOOK LINKS: The Great Debate – Does God Exist? – Edited and Commentary by Joshua Pillows Debate Transcript Video The Bahnsen Institute       All episodes, short clips, & blog – https://www.cavetothecross.com

Bahnsen's Assessment So Far Essentially round one is over and both debaters are going to give their take of the Great Debate. In Bahnsen's assessment so far, he finds that Stein has not addressed his main argument for God and has also given up the debate with the idea that the laws of logic are just social conventions agreed upon by people. But - is that how people view logic and operate in their daily lives? TIMELINE: 00:00 - Introduction 01:25 - The Atheist Isn't Debating The Christian Yet 05:45 - Stein Hasn't Dealt With Bahnsen's Argument At All 07:13 - Stein's Problematic Atheist Idea Of The Laws Of Logic 18:38 - The Atheist Unknowingly Gives The Win To The Christian By Convention 21:11 - Conclusion BOOK LINKS: The Great Debate - Does God Exist? - Edited and Commentary by Joshua Pillows Debate Transcript Video The Bahnsen Institute       All episodes, short clips, & blog - https://www.cavetothecross.com

The First Sparring Of The Great Debate The first sparring of The Great Debate takes place here with the Christian & atheist getting five questions to ask for the other to answer. While we aren’t used to this format, this really lays out the needed back and forth interaction that a lot of debates lack within a formal structure. It’s not the blood-sport debates we’re used to on YouTube but it helps with each side making sure the other is interacting with their points the best. TIMELINE: 00:00 – Introduction 03:22 – Q1 – Source For Atheism Definition 04:03 – A1 – Source Cited 05:15 – Q2 – Cite The Argument Used By Bahnsen 05:36 – A2 – No But You Believe It 06:49 – Q3 – Where’s The Transcendental Argument 07:50 – A3 – No Because It’s Not A Proof 08:12 – Commentary – Stein Was Helpful For Presuppositionalists 10:49 – Q4 – All Questions Answered The Same Way 11:08 – A4 – No They Are Not 11:34 – Q5 & A5 – What Does An Atheist Believe Laws Of Logic Are 14:21 – Atheist 14:41 – Q1 & Q2 – The Nature Of God 17:04 – Q2 & A2 – Is Your God All The Omnis 17:33 – Q3 & Q3 – If Argument Is Wrong Will God Not Exist 17:56 – Commentary – A Clarifying Comment On A “Problematic” Bahnsen 20:25 – Q4 & A4 – Is God Good 24:43 – Q5 & A5 – Can You Prove The Soul 26:38 – Conclusion BOOK LINKS: The Great Debate – Does God Exist? – Edited and Commentary by Joshua Pillows Debate Transcript Video The Bahnsen Institute       All episodes, short clips, & blog – https://www.cavetothecross.com

9 More Attempts To Disprove God Here are 9 more attempts by Dr. Gordon Stein to levy his critiques against traditional arguments for God. With all 11 of them, has there been any that have addressed the claims presented by Dr. Greg Bahnsen? What do you think about these critiques? TIMELINE: 00:00 – Introduction 01:54 – The Revealed Theology Argument Taken Down – No Circles 02:57 – Presuppositional Christian Responds – Two Issues 06:20 – The Miracles Argument Taken Down – No Begging Allowed 07:56 – Presuppositional Christian Responds – Only Atheists Can Beg It Seems 10:35 – The Perfect God Argument Taken Down – Existence First 12:26 – Presuppositional Christian Responds – Agrees With Being Careful 13:37 – The Moral Argument Taken Down – Not Need & Different Values 15:29 – The Wish Argument Taken Down – Nice But Not True 16:21 – The Faith Argument Taken Down – No Reason Unless Reason 17:24 – Presuppositional Christian Responds – All Reason Rests On Faith 20:09 – The Religious Experience Argument Taken Down – It’s Only Feelings 21:56 – Presuppositional Christian Responds – Agree But For Different Reasons 22:30 – The Pascal’s Wager Argument Taken Down – How To Pick? 25:06 – Conclusion BOOK LINKS: The Great Debate – Does God Exist? – Edited and Commentary by Joshua Pillows Debate Transcript Video The Bahnsen Institute       All episodes, short clips, & blog – https://www.cavetothecross.com

Atheist Attempts To Disprove God It’s now Dr. Gordon Stein’s turn in the debate. This atheist attempts to disprove God in 11 different ways. However, what seems to happen here is the use of an odd definition for God and an actual need for one more argument – the one Dr. Bahnsen uses. TIMELINE: 00:00 – Introduction 05:59 – Dr. Gordon Stein’s Opening Statement – On Facts 07:01 – Atheist Stein’s Definition Of Atheism 09:27 – Atheist Stein’s Definition Of God 11:45 – Atheist Takes Down 11 Proofs For The Existence Of God 13:38 – The Cosmological Argument Taken Down – The Uncaused Universe 16:40 – Joshua Pillows Commentary Against Stein’s Presentation 21:14 – Joshua Pillows Commentary Against The Cosmological Argument 23:55 – The Design Argument Taken Down – The Undesigned Universe 26:29 – The Life Argument Taken Down – The Unmoved Life 28:42 – Joshua Pillow Commentary Against Stein’s Induction 31:54 – Conclusion LINK: 30:19 – Dr. Jason Lisle Does Some Science BOOK LINKS: The Great Debate – Does God Exist? – Edited and Commentary by Joshua Pillows Debate Transcript Video The Bahnsen Institute       All episodes, short clips, & blog – https://www.cavetothecross.com

3 Important Claims In The Great Debate Here is Dr. Greg Bahnsen’s 3 important claims in the Great Debate. The first two are there to sweep away a lot of confusion Dr. Stein and other atheists have when it comes to the type of argumentation presuppositionalists use. Unfortunately, Dr. Stein didn’t seem to be prepared to actually engage in that type of debate as we’ll see in the coming weeks. TIMELINE: 00:00 – Introduction 01:36 – The 3 Claims Of Bahnsen’s Opening Statement 06:00 – Cracker’s Don’t Matter! – The Nature Of Evidence Between Christians & Atheists 11:12 – Presuppositional Conflict Of Worldviews 26:54 – The Transcendental Argument For God As A Positive Claim 31:49 – Conclusion BOOK LINKS: The Great Debate – Does God Exist? – Edited and Commentary by Joshua Pillows Debate Transcript Video The Bahnsen Institute       All episodes, short clips, & blog – https://www.cavetothecross.com

Setting The Stage We open our 14th book by setting the stage for The Great Debate. We cover the Forward by Eli Ayala and Preface by Joshua Pillows, who give the background for the debate and speakers. Then we dive into Dr. Greg Bahnsen’s opening statement, where he uses most of his time covering what the debate is and what it isn’t. He also covers why he’s going to talk about the Christian form of theism and how the debate can be an objective matter and not a subjective one. TIMELINE: 00:00 – Introduction 03:39 – Forward By Eli Ayala (Revealed Apologetics) 09:07 – Preface To The Debate 14:56 – The Book’s Format 16:34 – Bahnsen’s Opening – Setting The Stage For The Debate 17:40 – 3 Reasons Why To Argue For Christian Theism Not General Theism 21:09 – Defining Your Terms & The Debate Is & Isn’t 22:34 – 3 Reasons To Focus On Objective Matters, Not Subjective 26:32 – The Nature Of The Debate 29:20 – Conclusion BOOK LINKS: The Great Debate – Does God Exist? – Edited and Commentary by Joshua Pillows Debate Transcript Video The Bahnsen Institute       All episodes, short clips, & blog – https://www.cavetothecross.com

Book 14 Announcement For our 14th book, we dive into one of the great moments for presuppositional apologetics. The debate between Greg Bahnsen and Gordon Stein in 1985 is a seminal watershed moment in apologetics history. Join us, starting next week, as we walk through the debate with the book The Great Debate edited and commented on by Joshua Pillows. BOOK LINKS: The Great Debate – Does God Exist? – Edited and Commentary by Joshua Pillows Debate Transcript Video The Bahnsen Institute       All episodes, short clips, & blog – https://www.cavetothecross.com

Christianity Can Integrate With Science Christianity can integrate with science. In fact, the scientific revolution was only made possible because of the Christian worldview and those people who sought to discover just exactly how God ordered the universe. Only post-Enlightenment anachronistic history puts Christianity and science at odds with each other. So, this is our last plea to reject scientism and embrace a worldview that justifies true science. TIMELINE: 00:00 – Introduction 00:51 – How Should Christianity Integrate Science 01:50 – Suggestion 1 – The Two Realms Model 03:22 – Suggestion 2 – The Complementarian Model 05:06 – The Danger Of The Complementarian Model 09:14 – Suggestion 3 – The Presupposition Approach Model 10:27 – Suggestion 4 – The Practical Application Model 11:36 – Suggestion 5 – The Direct Interaction Model 13:40 – The Conflict This Model Causes 15:20 – When Should We Go Against The Experts In Science? 16:53 – Scenario 1 – Is There An Alt Bible Interpretation Available? 17:33 – Scenario 2 – A Set Of Experts That Goes Against The Other Experts 21:09 – Scenario 3 – If There Are Historic Or Philosophical Issues With Holding To The Majority Expert Views 26:00 – Scenario 4 – The Sociological Explanations For Forcing Majority Expert Views 27:44 – Scenario 5 – Theological Issues With Holding To Majority View 30:51 – Scenario 6 – Ideas That Go Against The Christian Worldview 32:41 – One Final Plea 34:53 – Conclusion BOOK LINKS: Scientism and Secularism – Learning to Respond to a Dangerous Ideology by J.P. Moreland Kindle Paperback Audible (FREE With Membership) Logos J.P. Moreland Website       All episodes, short clips, & blog – https://www.cavetothecross.com

Can Science Integrate With Christianity? Now that we have knocked down scientism, are Christians left without being able to use science? Is science without the worldview that provided for its justification and moral guards? Why not at all, says J. P. Moreland who provides a foundation for how science integrate with Christianity. TIMELINE: 00:00 – Introduction 02:39 – Can You Integrate Science & Christianity? 08:11 – 2 Types Of Integration – Conceptual & Personal 11:47 – 3 Ways Science Provides Rational Truth Claims For Christians 12:37 – 1 – Direct Defense 15:28 – 2 – Polemics 16:26 – 3 – Positive Christian Explanations 18:21 – Conclusion BOOK LINKS: Scientism and Secularism – Learning to Respond to a Dangerous Ideology by J.P. Moreland Kindle Paperback Audible (FREE With Membership) Logos J.P. Moreland Website       All episodes, short clips, & blog – https://www.cavetothecross.com

Why God Of The Gaps Is A Bad Objection While finishing our discussion on why methodological naturalism should be rejected, we deal with another bad objection to Christians having a place in the science world. The charge of believing in a “God of the gaps” is levied at Christians to scoff at their history in science. We take a look at it and offer up “nuh huh” and “you do it too”! TIMELINE: 00:00 – Introduction 03:01 – The 2 Reasons To Reject Methodological Naturalism 03:49 – Science Already Allows For Intelligence As An Explanation 06:52 – Human Sciences Allow Intelligence As An Explanation 07:46 – Distortion Of Natural Science To Keep Out Intelligence 13:43 – Responding To The Bad God Of The Gaps Objection 15:54 – Objection 1 – God Is Not Limited To Gaps 17:41 – Objection 2 – Not Offering Evidence In Ignorance But Positive Explanation 21:43 – Objection 3 – There Are Gaps That Need Explanation 23:16 – Two Ways God Acts Intelligently That Gives Us Explanations 26:33 – Empirical Vs. Historical Science Doesn’t Count Out Intelligent Explanations 29:26 – Intelligence Design Differs From Creation Science 31:26 – Conclusion BOOK LINKS: Scientism and Secularism – Learning to Respond to a Dangerous Ideology by J.P. Moreland Kindle Paperback Audible (FREE With Membership) Logos J.P. Moreland Website       All episodes, short clips, & blog – https://www.cavetothecross.com

The Danger Of Methodological Naturalism Before we talk about how Christianity should integrate science, we need to talk about how NOT to do it. The dangers of methodological naturalism aren’t realized for those in camps like theistic evolution. Here, we look at why methodological naturalism doesn’t work out for those who want to have both God and evolution. TIMELINE: 00:00 – Introduction 01:16 – One Bad Way To Integrate Christianity & Naturalism 03:05 – Intelligent Design Intro 03:59 – The Blind Watchmaker Is A Bad Argument 06:18 – Intelligent Design IS A Science 07:19 – Methodological Naturalism Should Be Rejected 08:19 – What Is Theistic Evolutionists 10:46 – The Revival Of Methodological Naturalism 13:48 – What’s Wrong With Theistic Evolution & Methodological Naturalism 17:03 – Failed Explanations For What Counts As Science 19:47 – Failed Explanation That Something Is Held Tentatively 21:16 – Failed Explanation That It Appeals To Natural Laws 22:35 – Conclusion BOOK LINKS: Scientism and Secularism – Learning to Respond to a Dangerous Ideology by J.P. Moreland Kindle Paperback Audible (FREE With Membership) Logos J.P. Moreland Website       All episodes, short clips, & blog – https://www.cavetothecross.com

Fine Tuning, Consciousness, & Morality Finishing up on the 5 things science can’t explain: Fine Tuning, Consciousness, & Morality. In a “physical only” science setting these ideas are best left alone. It winds up either with no reason to hold anyone accountable for anything or the need to discard scientism and possibly let theism into the picture. GASP! TIMELINE: 00:00 – Introduction 01:05 – Can’t Explain 3 – Fine Tuning 04:40 – Naturalists Attempt To Explain Away Fine Tuning 06:57 – The Destruction Of The Multiverse Theory 09:45 – Can’t Explain 4 – Origin Of Consciousness 12:13 – Science Fails To Provide An Explanation Of Mental States 13:54 – Science Fails To Provide An Explanation Mind-Body Relationship 17:12 – Why Science Fails At Mind-Body Relationship Explanation 20:31 – Can’t Explain 5 – Morality, Rationality, & Esthetic Laws 23:54 – Conclusion BOOK LINKS: Scientism and Secularism – Learning to Respond to a Dangerous Ideology by J.P. Moreland Kindle Paperback Audible (FREE With Membership) Logos J.P. Moreland Website       All episodes, short clips, & blog – https://www.cavetothecross.com

Science Can’t Explain Origin Or Laws Looking at how philosophy first holds its place over science, we look at five things science can’t explain – but Theism can. Two of those things it can’t explain are origin or laws. That is, the origin of the universe and the fundamental laws of nature. You’d think this would be an area that science could tackle. However, naturalism fails to explain both, and science needs theism to get it started. TIMELINE: 00:00 – Introduction 01:58 – 5 Things Science Can’t Explain But Theism Can 03:38 – There Are Many Things Science Can’t Explain And That’s Ok 04:36 – Can’t Explain 1 – The Origin Of The Universe 04:57 – Philosophical Evidence Of The Beginning Of The Universe 08:58 – The Scientific Evidence Of The Beginning Of The Universe 12:12 – Something Comes From Nothing – How Science Cheats At Nothing 15:30 – The Cause Of The Universe Is Personal & How Science Fails To Explain Other 17:57 – 3 Reasons Science Can’t Explain The Origin Of The Universe 21:02 – 2 Outcomes From The Result Of Science Not Being Able To Explain The Origin Of The Universe 23:18 – Can’t Explain 2 – The Origin Of Fundamental Laws Of Nature 24:15 – Conclusion BOOK LINKS: Scientism and Secularism – Learning to Respond to a Dangerous Ideology by J.P. Moreland Kindle Paperback Audible (FREE With Membership) Logos J.P. Moreland Website       All episodes, short clips, & blog – https://www.cavetothecross.com

Lairs, Evils Beasts, Lazy Gluttons On vacation this week, so this is my (Patrick’s) message on the final portion of Titus, Titus 3:12-15. With epistle beginnings and endings, sometimes we glance over them and view them as superfluous or boring. But those are just as authoritative and important as any portion of God’s Word to His Church. We read these sections, and we can meet the challenge – don’t be bored, be active! Previous teaching on Titus – Lairs, Evils Beasts, Lazy Gluttons – Ep.328 – Titus 1:10-12 Sermon All episodes, short clips, & blog – https://www.cavetothecross.com

Philosophy’s Authority Over Science Previously, we looked at the authority philosophy has over science, and now we look at philosophy’s authority over science. From what beaker to grab to remembering equations to what to write in that peer-reviewed study, the initial steps one makes and concludes is all philosophical. Those most hurt? Scientists and atheists. Big mad. TIMELINE: 00:00 – Introduction 01:12 – The Autonomy Thesis Of Philosophy 03:51 – The Characteristics Of Science Comes From The Philosophers 05:34 – Methodological Naturalism Fails To Establish Causation 07:50 – 1st & 2nd Order Distinctions Needed Between Science & How To Do Science 09:03 – Philosophy Can Be Independent & More Authoritative Than Science 11:06 – Christians Don’t Have To Freak Out Over Current Day Scientific Claims 13:25 – Methodological Naturalism Struggles To Keep Intelligent Design Out Of Science 15:19 – Ch. 11 – How Do We Explain Things? 16:00 – Two Types Of Explanations – Scientific & Personal 16:27 – Scientific Explanations Defined 19:00 – Personal Explanations Defined 22:16 – Criteria For Things That Are Scientific Unexplainable 28:34 – Conclusion BOOK LINKS: Scientism and Secularism – Learning to Respond to a Dangerous Ideology by J.P. Moreland Kindle Paperback Audible (FREE With Membership) Logos J.P. Moreland Website       All episodes, short clips, & blog – https://www.cavetothecross.com

Education Is Classical Education We welcome Martin Cothran from Memoria Press today. Mr. Cothran is a proponent of one of the best educational models that has built the Western world. Education is classical education or it is not education. We discuss what is classical education, why it works, how it teaches both the mind and the whole person in virtue. We also discuss books, a dangerous subject with Mr. Cothran – dangerous for bank accounts. It was a true pleasure to talk with a hero of classical education. TIMELINE: 00:00:00 – Introduction 00:00:42 – Martin Cothran Introduction 00:01:50 – Previous Episodes On Education 00:03:06 – What Is Classical Education? 00:09:53 – Terminology Of Classical Education 00:13:11 – How Does Classical Education Shape The Intellectual & Moral Development? 00:17:40 – God’s Story Helps Us Tell Our Story 00:22:29 – Education Builds Virtue; Govt Schools Can’t Do This 00:24:59 – Why Is Classical Education The Way We Should Do Education? 00:34:20 – How Classical Education Helps Students Teach Themselves 00:42:53 – Classical Education Passes On Western Culture 00:49:16 – The Importance Of Books In Classical Education 00:54:55 – How To Read Good Books 01:05:19 – Cheryl Lowe And Memoria Press 01:10:33 – Conclusion LINKS: Martin Cothran Twitter Martin Cothran Facebook Memoria Press Memoria College 00:01:56 – Previous Education Episodes – Episode 191 + Episode 192 + Episode 286 + Episode 287 00:06:26 – A Defense Of Classical Education – R.W. Livingston           00:09:28 – Passing The Torch – Louis Markos Kindle Paperback  Audible       00:17:28 – Why Johnny Can’t Tell Right From Wrong – William Kilpatrick           00:25:05 – The Seven Liberal Arts, a Study in Mediaeval Culture by Paul Abelson         00:55:05 – Adam On The Road – Elizbeth Janet Gray Paperback Audible         00:56:07 – Romans Road Press 00:58:26 – Charlotte’s Web – E. B. White Kindle Paperback Audible         00:58:54 – The Iliad For Boys And Girls – Alfred J. Church Kindle Paperback         01:00:27 – Little Women (Great Illustrated Classics) – Louisa May Alcott Kindle Hardcover          01:02:20 – Tales From Shakespeare – Charles And Mary Lamb Kindle Paperback Audible         01:03:04 – The Meaning Of Shakespeare – Harold Goddard Kindle Paperback         01:03:08 – Shakespeare – Harold Bloom           01:04:03 – No Fear Shakespeare           All episodes, short clips, & blog – https://www.cavetothecross.com

The Authority Of Philosophy Over Science If you think the atheists are mad and don’t watch our videos before commenting, wait till they don’t see this one! In continuing the argument that philosophy should be considered first before one considers their science, we look at how the authority of philosophy is not only substantiated by philosophers but even by scientists who want to try and get around philosophy. Also, when they come into conflict with issues within their framework, they don’t show you a science experiment but give you a philosophical argument. Suspicious, indeed! TIMELINE: 00:00 – Introduction 01:33 – Authority And Autonomy In Philosophy 02:47 – Authority Of Philosophy Over Science 05:14 – Philosophical Claims Greater Than Scientific For The Beginning Of Everything 07:21 – Stephen Hawking’s Failure To Have No Beginning Of The Universe 09:08 – Philosophers Show How Hawking Is Wrong 13:21 – Science Fails To Talk About Nothing When They Say Something About Nothing 15:54 – Science Fails To Discover The Origin Of Life; But Philosophy Does Better 21:41 – Conclusion BOOK LINKS: Scientism and Secularism – Learning to Respond to a Dangerous Ideology by J.P. Moreland Kindle Paperback Audible (FREE With Membership) Logos J.P. Moreland Website       All episodes, short clips, & blog – https://www.cavetothecross.com