Fringe Legal

This episode explores the RAILS initiative, which focuses on the responsible use of AI in legal services. The guests discuss the origins of RAILS, its working groups, and the importance of ethical AI practices. They highlight recent outputs, including a risk management framework and various use cases, while emphasizing the need for AI literacy in the legal field. The discussion also touches on the future of RAILS and the ongoing evolution of AI in legal contexts. Thanks to our guests, Kelli Raker, Eli Makus, and Leigh Zeiser. Watch the video version here. Takeaways RAILS launched to address the ethical use of AI in legal services. The initiative aims to bridge gaps in AI understanding among legal professionals. Working groups focus on client engagement, direct-to-consumer resources, and corporate legal teams. AI presents both opportunities and risks that need careful management. Access to AI should be equitable across different legal sectors. The risk management framework provides guidance for corporate legal teams. Use cases developed by RAILS help illustrate practical applications of AI. AI literacy is essential for legal professionals and their clients. The conversation emphasizes collaboration and sharing of resources. Future developments will continue to evolve as AI technology advances. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Rails and Responsible AI 01:57 Understanding Rails: Origins and Objectives 05:55 Working Groups: Focus Areas and Contributions 09:54 The Importance of Responsible AI in Legal Services 13:46 Outputs and Resources from Rails 17:56 Use Cases: Development and Significance 22:04 Future Directions for Rails and AI Literacy

In this episode of Fringe Legal, we host an engaging discussion with James Markham and Darren Mee, authors of 'The Legal MBA.'  The conversation delves into their backgrounds, the inspiration behind their book, and its key themes. We discuss the importance of a broad business education for legal professionals, the integration of legal technology, and the practical applications of the knowledge shared in their book.   00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome  00:29 Background of the Authors  01:05 Journey to Writing the Legal MBA  05:03 The Concept and Content of the Legal MBA  14:29 Target Audience for the Legal MBA  21:52 Technology in Law Firms  26:42 Challenges and Adoption of Legal Tech  34:22 The Legal MBA Academy and Conclusion

In this episode of Fringe Legal, recorded live from ILTACON 2024 in Nashville, Tennessee, Ab sits down with JoeySeeber, CEO of Level Legal. Joey discusses the journey and growth of Level Legal over 15 years, starting during the Great Recession. The conversation delves into various aspects of building a business for longevity, maintaining a startup mindset in a small company, and delivering services in a human-centric way. Joey shares insights on their framework and principles for doing business, client feedback, handling competition, and the role of technology in enhancing efficiency. Read the episode takeaways at: https://www.fringelegal.com/balancing-technology-and-human-connection-in-legal-services-with-joey-seeber

In this episode of the Fringe Legal podcast, host Ab interviews Stefan Ciesla, the co-founder and CEO of Ayora ai, a startup that focuses on helping law firms manage their revenues and improve the revenue management skills of fee earners such as attorneys and lawyers. Steven discusses the problem Ayora is solving in the legal industry and the role of lawyers as revenue managers. He explains that fee earners often have to make revenue management decisions throughout a matter's lifecycle, but they may not have the necessary skills or focus on revenue management. Ayora's smart lockup assistant helps fee earners by scanning a firm's data related to matters and providing recommendations on monitoring scope, estimates, budgets, resourcing, outside counsel guidelines, and billing. The assistant pre-drafts emails and provides relevant information to make the decision-making process easier and more efficient. Steven also addresses the challenge of balancing AI and machine learning with human control and building trust in the recommendations made. He emphasizes that Ayora prioritizes transparency and user consent and never takes any action without the attorney's knowledge. Key takeaways: Fee earners in law firms, such as attorneys and lawyers, often need to make revenue management decisions throughout a matter's lifecycle but may not have the necessary skills or focus on revenue management. Ayora's smart lockup assistant helps fee earners monitor scope, estimates, budgets, resourcing, outside counsel guidelines, and billing, providing recommendations and pre-drafting emails to make decision-making easier and more efficient. Ayora prioritizes transparency and user consent, ensuring that attorneys have control over the recommendations made by the system. Uncommon learning The legal industry may be missing out on billions of dollars of additional value due to suboptimal revenue management decisions. Podcast show notes 00:02 Introduction to the Fringe Legal Podcast 00:29 Guest Introduction: Stefan Ciesla, Co-founder and CEO of Ayora 00:58 Steven's Background and Ayora's Founding Team 02:07 The Unique Blend of Ayora's Founding Team 02:55 Understanding Ayora's Mission and Purpose 04:24 The Role of Lawyers as Revenue Managers 04:43 The Impact of Decision-Making on Revenue Management 08:28 Introducing Ayora's Smart Lockup Assistant 20:20 The Role of AI and Machine Learning in Decision-Making 27:05 The Impact of Fixed Fee Work on Revenue Management 30:12 Conclusion and Contact Information

In this episode of the Fringe Legal podcast, host Ab chats with Conan Hines, Director of Legal Technology at Fried Frank, about building a tech-enabled culture in law firms. Conan shares insights from his previous roles at Clifford Chance and other law firms, highlighting the importance of understanding the role of legal technology and the psychology and behavior of users when it comes to successful adoption and change management. Conan emphasizes the need for building trust with lawyers and finding those who are curious and open to tech-enabled solutions. He suggests starting small with bite-sized engagements to build trust over time. He also discusses the value of creating a foundation for tech adoption and balancing short-term impact with long-term goals. The conversation delves into the role of vendors in adoption, with Conan highlighting the need for a strong partnership and a transparent framework for success. He stresses the importance of vendors having a real adoption strategy and sharing learnings from what has worked in the past. Ab and Conan also discuss the challenge of incentives and tracking adoption. They explore the idea of integrating technology training into legal training to emphasize the value and importance of tech skills for lawyers. Ultimately, the key to successful adoption and building a tech-enabled culture in law firms lies in trust, continuous communication, and demonstrating the value of technology. Key takeaways: Building a tech-enabled culture requires understanding the role of legal technology and the psychology and behavior of users. Trust is essential for successful adoption. Lawyers need to believe that tech solutions can help them. Adoption plans should be simplified and tailored to individual users. Integration of technology training into legal training can help emphasize the value of tech skills for lawyers. Vendors should have a strong adoption strategy and share learnings from past successes. Uncommon learning: Tech adoption requires a partnership between law firms and vendors, with a focus on transparency and continuous communication.

While technology races ahead, improving legal training and education has lagged behind. Law schools excel at teaching students the law, but critical and practical skills development is often lacking. With the traditional law firm apprenticeship model fading, junior lawyers frequently lack opportunities to gain hands-on experience. Abdi Shayesteh, founder and CEO of the legal training platform AltaClaro, is on a mission to close this practical skills gap. Frustrated by the inefficiencies he experienced firsthand as a junior lawyer, Abdi has reinvented legal education and training. AltaClaro leverages experiential learning techniques rooted in education science to provide associates with hands-on practice on simulated legal matters. Show Notes [00:01:14] Abdi's early entrepreneurial experiences managing a cafe and starting a t-shirt business in college [00:08:02] Why Abdi decided to start another company after previous exits [00:10:25] Overview of what AltaClaro does [00:17:38] Issues with the traditional law firm training model [00:23:00] Explanation of the learning science principles AltaClaro leverages [00:34:59] Training trends Abdi sees law firms requesting for 2023

As part of our series of examining Generative AI in Practice, Fringe Legal spoke with Stephanie Corey, founder of legal operations consultancy UpLevel Ops, and Brandi Pack, UpLevel’s Legal Tech Analyst & AI Consultant. They share how legal teams can thoughtfully leverage generative AI to transform workflows, augment human skills, and futureproof roles. With proper governance and training, we can keep pace with the evolution of AI and maximize its potential. Show notes: Show Notes: [00:02:19] Getting early access to GPT-4 [00:08:00] How are the Uplevel Ops team grew adoption internally [00:11:53] People don't care about AI [00:14:51] Why to document prompts [00:18:06] How are legal teams reacting to the changing landscape [00:28:38] GenAI as a workflow tool [00:31:03] What's the future? [00:34:16] Will my role be displaced? [00:38:47] What one thing can organizations do to see immediate value from GenAI?

We sat down with Jeff Pfeiffer, Chief Product Officer at LexisNexis during ILTACON 2023 to get his insights on legal AI progress, hype versus reality, increased law firm adoption, and the importance of demonstrating tangible benefits. Topics covered: Navigating the legal AI hype cycle AI’s potential to enhance legal workflows Growing law firm interest and hands-on exploration Avoiding the “trough of disillusionment” Real-world benefits driving adoption over hype

In this episode of Fringe Legal, host Abhijat Saraswat interviews Nnamdi Emelifeonwu and Feargus MacDaeid, co-founders of legal tech startup Definely. Key Takeaways: Definely creates software plugins to simplify drafting, reviewing, and analyzing legal contracts in Microsoft Word using AI/ML. The idea originated from Feargus' need as a blind lawyer to access information in documents more easily. They validated demand with a scrappy prototype and early pilots despite its flaws. After leaving law firm jobs, their mission-driven approach focuses on access, efficiency, and transparency. Their blueprint for innovation includes launching an MVP, inclusive design thinking, gathering user feedback, and carefully leveraging AI. Maintaining ethics and reputation is central, not rushing new technology to market. When solving problems for underserved groups, solutions often benefit everyone. A framework for evaluating AI: accuracy and understanding real-world impacts. Connect with Nnamdi Emelifeonwu Connect with Feargus MacDaeid Learn more about Definely

ESG (environmental, social, governance) factors have become essential considerations for companies seeking to manage risk, attract investment, and operate sustainably. Yet myths and misconceptions persist around what ESG is and how best to approach it. This leads many legal teams to view ESG as an amorphous compliance exercise rather than a strategic priority. Recently on the Fringe Legal podcast, Abhijat Saraswat interviewed ESG expert Kai Gray, CEO of advisory firm Motiv, to demystify ESG and offer practical guidance for legal professionals. In this episode, learn what ESG means and how legal teams can pragmatically prioritize it. Get clarity on ESG frameworks, strategic rollout, and avoiding common pitfalls.

Summary: In this insightful episode of Fringe Legal, host Abhijat Saraswat has an in-depth discussion with India Preston, Director of Platform Solutions at legal tech startup Lupl. They delve into India's winding journey into legal project management, tactical approaches to driving adoption, and how to effectively challenge established processes. India shares learnings and advice drawn from her diverse experiences - from helping build out Linklaters' LPM function from the ground up to make the leap to an early-stage legal tech startup. She provides a rare longitudinal view of how legal project management has evolved from a little-known concept in 2013 to a widely recognized, if still poorly understood, discipline today. Key Takeaways: While LPM has gone from barely existing in 2013 to being commonly known today, there is still substantial room for education on how to apply it effectively. LPM principles empower lawyers to run matters like projects, but specialized LPM roles create incremental value on complex matters. Project management qualifications alone don't cut it for legal project managers to be successful. Soft skills to integrate smoothly with lawyers and legal teams are just as important, if not more so. Technical skills can be learned on the job. Identifying concrete problems that need solving is absolutely crucial before adopting any new solution or technology. Without an anchor in specific pain points, adoption will struggle no matter how exciting the new solution seems at first glance. Rollouts of new technology or processes should start small and be targeted before expanding more widely across a firm. The tendency may be to go big with a splashy firmwide launch, but this rarely succeeds. Resources like use case guides, template libraries, and informal user communities help drive adoption by making the novel feel familiar. However, these need to be grounded in solving real firm problems. Process mapping workshops - with the help of an unbiased external facilitator - can challenge status quo thinking and processes in extremely constructive ways. Just asking "why" repeatedly can unearth entrenched inefficiencies. Actionable Takeaway: Start Small Before Going Wide Explore in detail at Fringe Legal.

In this episode, our guests Brad Blickstein, David Cambria, and returning guest Keith Mazerik join host Ab to discuss the findings from the 3rd Legal Pricing and Project Management (LPMM) Survey Report.  They delve into the key challenges and trends shaping the legal industry, touching upon innovation, technology, client expectations, and the future of legal service delivery. Tune in to explore the data and analysis from the report, as these experts share their perspectives on the current state and future of legal operations. Key discussion points: [00:02:16] The current state of law firm investments in innovation and technology [00:10:45] Contradictions between client expectations and rewarded behaviors [00:18:50] Challenges faced by law firm and legal department executives in adopting process and collaboration improvements [00:27:12] The real threat to law firm success and how to address it [00:34:23] The impact of economic downturns on the legal industry and the potential for future transformation Don't miss this in-depth conversation that offers valuable insights for legal professionals interested in legal tech, legal project management, and legal service delivery. A more in-depth commentary is available on FringeLegal.com

Professional services environments are stressful. Among the myriad of items to be juggled each day, you must manage workloads, managing the capacity of employees -  what kind of work & how frequently work is allocated.  How well this aspect is managed will impact performance, productivity, DEI, and retention.  As part of our startup series, we speak with William Dougherty, Co-Founder of Capcity, a legal tech tool that looks to improve the allocation of work. In the episode, we'll discuss (numbers are time markers): What is Capacity → 1.48 How is work allocated → 3.09 Issues with the current approach to work allocation → 4.24 What if nothing changes → 5.48 Capacity management vs. work allocation → 12.31 Getting buy-in to effect change → 17.02 The business impact of attrition → 21.46

The guest this week are co-founders of New York-based Priori Legal.  Basha Rubin, the company's Chief Executive Officer, and Mirra Levitt, the Chief Product Officer, met as classmates at Yale Law School and found Priori. Earlier this year, they announced a funding round of $15 million.   Priori works with in-house legal teams to connect legal departments with the right outside counsel for projects globally, saving them time and money.  We discuss Legal Tech trends, their origin story, raising funds a Women Founders, and the secret sauce for successful legal teams.

Legal operation teams have been increasing in popularity. In this episode, Liz Lugones and Sumi Trombley from Uplevel Opsshare why Legal Ops teams matter, why you should care, and how to leverage them to level up your legal team (in-house and at firms).   Uplevel Ops are offering a complimentary 30-minute consultation, you can find more here.   In the episode, we discuss: (03:12) Why should you care about legal operations (LegalOps)? (04:21) Law school vs. practice (08:12) Enabling fail-fast thinking in legal teams (11:11) It's not just about technology  (16:32) Embedded in the organization (21:25) Creating space for creativity and ideas (28:38) Celebrating success (30:49) Gaining trust (34:25) Shifts in legal operations Article referenced Striving for Imperfection: The Complicated Relationship of Lawyers and Project Management by Sumi Trombley & Liz Lugones Key quotes (edited for a better reading experience) People and lawyers want to be able to solve the problems of their clients, but in doing so, and what's the best way to do it doesn't always mean here's the legal answer. Maybe they're looking for optionality, a strategic partner, or they are looking to reduce the risk. Whatever the answer is,  you have to talk to your business counterparts to be able to figure that out.The thing that Liz hit on was 'the therapy' - that aspect of legal operations is the bridge from getting to, I know the legal answer, to how do I deliver it to my client in a way that makes them happy and feel like they have the best result. Sometimes you're not likely to go to the person who's giving you the advice and say, "I don't like the way you're giving me the advice." You need a buffer, and that's the legal operations buffer. With that in place, you can express the problem. The legal ops professional can go share it as the buffer: "I'm generally hearing from these people, And here's what I suggest we start to do to help facilitate."Often, I believe people in the profession think that legal operations are putting technology in, right? Or you're putting a process in. And I feel like the conduit that legal offspring is legal ops is not all those things. Legal ops is a mindset that needs to happen in the culture of the org, for the department to get better. The buffer is the data coming out of the technology you put in there.About the guests Elizabeth "Liz" Lugones, COO/Senior Advisor, UpLevel Ops Liz has built and managed Legal Operations teams in various industries in both public and private companies over her 20+ year career. She excels in global project management and business reengineering, with particular expertise in process improvement, change management, cross-functional collaboration and team building, but her true passion is helping others find their own strengths and talents and harness them for the value of all. Before joining UpLevel, Liz served as the Senior Director of Legal Operations at WeWork. Prior to WeWork, Liz served as Director of Legal Operations at a diverse range of companies, including UnitedLex, DXC Technology, Becton Dickinson, and MetLife. She also worked at Citigroup as Manager, Strategy and M&A. Liz holds a BA in Political Science and Journalism from Rutgers University, is certified in Lean Six Sigma and fluent in Spanish. She is based in New Jersey. Sumi Trombley, Senior Advisor, UpLevel Ops Sumi Trombley practiced in law firms and in-house legal departments for more than a decade before coming to UpLevel Ops. Sumi previously served as Director, Legal at enterprise legal services provider Marshall Denning, LLC, where she managed and trained a team of junior and senior attorneys and developed and implemented resource optimizing processes for RFPs and pre-litigation disputes. She is known for her ability to provide strategic guidance and cost-effective solutions. Prior to joining Marshall Denning, Sumi was Legal Counsel at Hewlett Packard Enterprise, serving as a de facto general counsel to top enterprise IT outsourcing accounts. She started her legal career at the law firms of Paul Hastings LLP in New York and Latham & Watkins LLP in DC, practicing corporate finance and securities law. Sumi holds a JD from Northwestern University Pritzker School of Law, and a BA in Political Economy from Georgetown University. She is based in Maryland.

To supplement the release of the Fringe Legal no-code report, which provides 100s of hours of market research in 6-min, we speak with Jackson Liu, Chief Commercial Officer at Neota, about the state of no-code in legal.  During the conversation, we discuss: How firms are using no-code tools Leveraging no-code tools as a competitive advantage Focusing on the customer journey and adoption for long-term success No-code challenges Future of no-code You can read the full No-code report at www.fringelegal.com/no-code-report/

On this episode with speak with Kai Jacob  - Partner at KPMG and Co-founder of Liquid Legal Institute - about digital transformation and designing the future of law.  In the episode we cover (min.seconds): Introduction -> 0.20 Enthusiasm vs adoption of technology -> 1.56 Founding the think thank -> 3.24 Facilitating cross collaboration -> 5.06 Distributing projects equitably -> 6.04 Designing the future -> 10.14 Mental wellbeing -> 13.52 Skills for future lawyers -> 21.54 Being embedded with customers -> 27.12 Highlights from the episode  What is Liquid Legal Institute We consider ourselves a collaboration community of doers. So we like to do stuff, everything that we tackle and that we focus on should lead very fast to a result. Not just talking, doing.Lack of collaboration in the legal market ...they helped us really to nail down the question of 'why is the legal market not collaborating'? That was a very interesting question because we are all sharing, we all do this together. We even have this concept of Co-opetition. Then why not work with competitors on something like setting standards? Why should we, in the legal market, cooperate? We are all making good money with this private wisdom that we have and built up over time. So why should we share? We also believe that without sharing, without creating true standards in the market, it will take ages to go through this digital transformation.Struggling with digital transformation We see that people are really struggling with digital transformation. They first don't understand why all this is happening. They're missing the digital mindset.The idea that digital transformation is something positive. They do not get the link back to legal because, they are thinking that what we do is something that's handcrafted; it's something that relies on very special knowledge.We do a perfect job of creating the perfect, beautiful contract that nobody else understands. We see beauty. And we see our role in protecting our company and defending our companies, defending our client's interests. It's just that the other side doesn't understand it.So the digital aspect is that we need to get more out of this dormant contract that's archived in the file cabinet somewhere. To make it valuable information, accessible for the digital company that we are working in.The whole idea of digital transformation is to make information that sits somewhere in an unstructured format, deep in contracts, more accessibleWe miss a huge opportunity for our profession to sit at the C-suite table and contribute to the overall goals of the enterprise. Second, everything moves so fast. We are overwhelmed with the speed of change. And we need to understand that change is constant and it will never go back to a slow motion mode. It will not happen. It will be fast. So we need to learn how to become adaptable, call it agile, call it whatever, but we need to adapt fast to a changing world. We need first to understand what is digital, and second how to deal with that in an agile working model.About Liquid Legal Institue The Liquid Legal Institute is an open and interdisciplinary platform for promoting a new way of thinking in the legal sector. Digitalization, new business models and technological innovations are currently changing all major industries worldwide. However, the legal sector has not yet benefited sufficiently from these trends. The Liquid Legal Institute was founded by seven experts from legal and business practice, design thinking, and computer science to close this gap.

Lawyers and firms have long struggled to find the right way to price their services. The hourly billing model focuses on the amount of time spent on a matter, project, or case. This can often lead to inefficiencies and frustration for the lawyer and the client. Value based pricing is an alternative that takes into account the value of the service being provided rather than simply the time spent. It means that lawyers and firms are paid based on the results they achieve for their clients. The incentive becomes focused on getting better results. Value-based pricing can also help build trust and improve communication between lawyers and clients. However, that doesn't make pricing or pricing conversations any easier. In this episode, we go into the rabbit hole of pricing.  SUBSCRIBE AND REVIEW:  iTunes // Spotify // Pocket Casts // Stitcher Special thanks to Paul Stroka of LexFusion for making the introduction to Keith. Episode content Introduction and summary ➡ 1.24 Power of buyer ➡ 4.30 Power of supplier ➡ 7.34 Elastic economic market ➡ 9.42 Price discrimination ➡ 13.14 Client sophistication ➡ 17.08 Inflation and pricing for specialized services ➡ 23.46 The next service delivery model ➡ 31.04 Here are some of our favorite takeaways from the episode (edited to be reading-friendly). Value of work One of the things that get ignored in discussions with clients or in the clients' calculus and how they determine what they're getting for the bills they're paying is that there's never a very accurate way of measuring the value that was captured from the services, and what the outcome was.It's always what was that bill? That bill is high. Maybe you bought a company, in an M&A scenario, that had subsidiaries or locations in highly regulated, highly risky territories - where there's a ton more work to be done. It's not an apples-to-apples kind of company. So you don't look at what I got for the price I paid? You're just saying the bills are higher now. Price discrimination Ab: How do you demonstrate that we're going to charge you X, and it's worth more than X to you as an outcome?Keith: Price discrimination is the short answer to that. Not everything is worth the same amount. By nature, and this is not any judgment or me trying to take a position on the actual value or the value of the practitioners doing this kind of work. But by nature, there's a spectrum of complexity, and the stuff that's really complex on the highly complex side tends to be more scarce. There is a more scarce supply of people who can do it.On the opposite side, on a more commoditized side or the more routine side - it's not as complex, and there are more options to avail yourself of to do that work. Client sophistication - apply the scalpel, not the hatchet My particular role is to ensure that the firm is as profitable as possible and that we're making our clients as happy as possible in terms of service delivery models and getting the outcomes they want. The conversation with the client depends on the level of sophistication: I'd say architecting and implementing some of those solutions depends on the sophistication that the client or the person on the buy-side has. There are only so many levers in this business in terms of what I can do. It's all about service delivery models and the underlying economics. This isn't astrophysics. There are not huge, massively complex data jobs in most cases (there are some benefits to that in different scenarios).There are a couple of levers on who's going to do the work and how much they have to do, what's the cheapest way to do it, and what the outcome will be. How do those things correlate (the price to the product)? Having those conversations with people that understand that better is important.I've worked with several legal operations groups where they have the knowledge, the understanding, and the sophistication. Still, there's a gap in the level of influence they have over the in-house attorneys... Different sides of the table, same challenges: We have very similar challenges - in-house and the law firm side - as it relates to getting the lawyers to understand the economics, the process, and to engage attorneys with it - to really adopt it. As opposed to, 'Yeah, but I'm skeptical of that because I don't understand it. So let's just do it the old way.' Next service delivery model Where can I get efficiencies out of technology? Which is a hugely growing market, that's going to be the new paradigm shift. It's going to be a much more dynamic service delivery model...Given that we've got a shortage of supply of people with the requisite skills to do a lot of this work and that's why we have to charge more. They [the attorneys] also have been working ridiculous man hours, and that's why we have to pay more for that. On top of that, there are obviously the mental health and quality of life concerns which is why a lot of people leave the workforce.I've been trying to make the case, and we work with our innovation group a lot, too, with several different teams internally to say: 'if you don't want people burnt out, you want them to have a better level of work-life balance and job satisfaction. Don't force them to brute force their way through everything all the time.'If you can get 30% more productivity out of the same people and let them sign off at seven or eight at night and use some tool that scales their productivity and delivers efficiencies then do it. You still get the same outcome, you just don't have to have as much input to have the same output. Resources mentioned Off The Clock Podcast Porter's Five Forces and a deeper look at Buyer Power 🎧 Janet Stanton – Benefits of a Strategic Client Management Program 🎧 Rasmeet Charya – Using technology to maximize the value of legal services Smart collaboration for lawyers and law firms with Dr. Heidi Gardner About Keith Maziarek Keith Maziarek has been building and leading legal services pricing/legal project management/profitability functions since 2009. He is currently Director of Pricing and Legal Project Management at Katten Muchin Rosenman LLP, where he is responsible for building and scaling the firm’s formal pricing and legal project management functions. Prior to Katten, Keith served as Senior Director of Client Value for Perkins Coie LLP, working closely with the client legal operations executives to develop collaboration strategies to improve operational efficiencies. Keith’s career in strategic pricing began at DLA Piper LLP, where he built the firm’s strategic pricing, profitability and legal project management functions as the firm’s first Head of Strategic Pricing.  He previously worked in strategic business development, helping establish a deep understanding of clients’ business needs. Keith is a Board Member and Officer of Legal Value Network, a legal operations, pricing/project management and process improvement industry group focused on evolving the legal service delivery model. He frequently speaks at industry events and publishes articles on related topics.  Keith earned his M.B.A. from the Kellogg School of Management at Northwestern University and a B.S. in Business Management from the University of Illinois-Chicago.

Leading teams during times of crisis presents a unique challenge. Many of which are multiplied when you are a startup and the team was only formed months ago.  And then, overnight, everyone suddenly felt very fragile. It's a unique feeling and unique in a bad way because suddenly you have no idea what to do. And the feeling is that you're very lost.Yet, that is exactly the challenge that faced Alex Tsepko, CEO of Lawrina - a website that provides useful content and productivity tools for lawyers. The entire team for Lawrina was in Ukraine, and things changed overnight as the country was invaded.  Lawrina CEO, Alex Tsepko, speaks about his experience leading a newly formed team through a sudden crisis - the invasion of Ukraine - and finding growth through a shared vision.  In this episode, we cover (timestamps in parenthesis): Introduction (0:20) Ukraine as a hub for IT innovation (1:38) Experiencing unexpected crisis as a young organization (3:22) Leading through a crisis (6:08) Finding growth through a shared vision (11:57) Recognizing that it wasn't possible to continue doing anything the old way, Alex ensured that his team was safe and pivoted to continue working to execute their vision. The business went from a domestic play to having an international group with traffic growing 35%+ each month. As Alex shares, "it was not easy," but the team came together during a time when they felt fragile to build something they believed in. Alex Tsepko is the CEO of Lawrina.com. You can connect with Alex on LinkedIn. If you like the show, then I know you'll love the Fringe Legal newsletter which is full of interviews, articles, and reports to help Legal innovators like yourself learn how to put ideas into practice and find success. You can sign up for free at FringeLegal.com. 

What role does creativity play in a law firm and legal practice?    "You can be creative in any industry and anything that you do. Creativity is a mindset. It's being open to new ideas, new trends that diversity of thought, as we mentioned, being willing to experiment and try things, seeing things through a different lens than people typically do.   To me, that's what creativity really is. It doesn't mean you have to invent something new and be insanely innovative. It just means you can look at a lot of things that are out there and say, 'Hey, you know what? That's interesting. Maybe we can use that somehow.'" In this episode, we cover: The role of creativity in law firms The increased focus on pricing Why firms are struggling with being client-centric What will make future firms successful Marketing as an underutilized superpower Read the Fringe Legal newsletter which includes additional commentary on each of the topics. About Dale Miller Dale Miller is a Business Development and Marketing strategist with 20 years of experience and expertise in professional services firms, the advertising industry, and technology startups.   She has held Director of Marketing and Business Development positions at regional and international firms, in the legal and financial industries, leading strategy, content, business development, and strategic partnerships. Dale is currently a Practice Development Manager at Holland & Knight.   Prior to her work in legal, Dale founded and ran businesses, including a marketing consultancy and her talent agency, Miller Creative Partners, which represented photographers and directors, and worked with national ad agencies and their blue-chip clients.   She has served on the Board of Lawyers for the Creative Arts, and is an active member of Northwestern University’s Law and Technology Initiative.