Gender Inbetween

In episode twenty-six of Gender Inbetween, Kriss' is joined by NYC photographer, podcaster and multimedia creative Aaron Tsuru. Aaron shares a tale of evolution, growth, and becoming more than you might think you are. "I don't have a lot of memories of my childhood really. I know I played a lot with Legos, I know [that] I hung out in the backyard with my friends. There were some woods behind our house, and we used to go play in the woods with our friends, but beyond that, a lot of my memories of my childhood are really centered around my life at school. Oddly enough, that's where most of my memories were." "My childhood wasn't awesome: [my] parents split up when I was about five. My father was a — I like to call him a 'post-apocalyptic Christian'. Back then, he was more just a Baptist — and my mom was this wonderful agnostic person, who's always been very loving and very supportive. I would move back and forth between them, probably like twenty-five times before I moved out on my own when I was eighteen." "My life is always just like in a constant flux — in dealing with different ... personalities and different levels of acceptance. I just didn't know anything: you know, I was just some kid, who was just getting through. Who knew they were weird, who knew that they didn't belong in a lot of places. I was just doing my life."

Today's guest is an artist, creative instigator, musician, and (future) podcaster, Dee Armagost. "I was born and raised in a small town — it's like this itty bitty, pretty rural place in Pennsylvania — called Oil City, it's in northwestern P.A. It's a pretty conservative place, it's not really that socially aware... kinda closed minded, or so I thought. A lot of the times people are woefully ignorant, but that's what I thought in the past... I always thought that growing up, but I never really aligned that way or wanted to be like that." Somehow, over the course of several years, Dee's perception of the small town where they were born began to shift — despite being labeled as uninformed by both citizens and outsiders. Today's story is one of evolution, of finding oneself, and learning to look deeper at the problems that may be surfacing in communities around you.

On episode twenty-four of Gender Inbetween, Kriss welcomes their youngest guest yet, Asher White. Asher hails from Evanston, Illinois, a place that was once home to the Temperance movement, and now, is one of the most liberal communities in America. "I didn't really think about gender a lot — at all... or not at all, I thought about it a lot — but it wasn't a huge part of my life because I grew up in such a lovely, and liberal, and open community, where I never felt forced." "I hear all these stories of genderqueer people, throughout their life, and they're talking about the time that they realized they were forced into this gender. They're like, 'I feel oppressed...', and I never really felt that. I'm always trying to be aware of how privileged [I am]. It's a major, major privilege that I have. I never really was like, 'I have to be a boy,' and everyone's telling me that I have to be a boy. My parents were always super, super open — and even celebrated gender exploration."

In episode 23 of Gender Inbetween, friend of The Machine (and possibly our most frequent guest) Christina Dennaoui shares her story. From growing up in a suburb where her parents lived in an arranged marriage, to leaving home and attending school in the big city, Christina's life so far spans many years and cultural experiences. "I grew up in Dearborn, Michigan, a suburb of Detroit. I was the only daughter of two Lebanese immigrants — their marriage was arranged, which an interesting, slightly different background. So yeah, I grew up in Dearborn, went to school in Kalamazoo, came to Chicago for grad school at the University of Chicago." "My personal coming out story wasn't a super-great one — it's certainly changed — but the whole process of me kinda coming to terms with my sexuality was very... sort-of it was very up in the air, I wasn't sure what I was feeling. So I didn't think that initial attractions to women constituted any kind of identity, or even a real sexual orientation at first. At first, I thought these were just these fluid moments until it became very clear to toward the end of college and grad school that I'm very clearly a lesbian."

William Covert is a Chicago-based musician, and half of the dynamic math-rock duo, Space Blood. In this episode of Gender Inbetween, he shares his story, starting with life in a tiny town where archaic gender roles are the norm. "I grew up in a real small town in Michigan called New Buffalo. Which is like, To give you some perspective, if you're on I-94, it's literally the first exit into Michigan. You'll miss it in a blink of an eye. It's a really small tourist-trap town... it's one of those places people will say, 'that must be a good place to grow up as a kid...' It wasn't. My high school was 200 kids. The my graduating class was 34 people." "I got into music at an early age, and I think that helped deal with the monotony of just like growing up in the middle of nowhere. I always knew, from a kid, that I didn't fit in with the other kids I grew up with. When puberty and those things started coming in, then I really knew that I didn't fit in, and couldn't wait to get out of there. So music really helped with that." "Even when I go back now, it's like it hasn't changed. It's like a movie: [you know] those towns, you go back and it's still 1950..."

Chicago performer JC Brooks is well known for his musical talents, especially the classic soul revue project, JC Brooks and the Uptown Sound, but as some might not know, his story goes much deeper than most music is able to explore. Describing himself, he says, "I am queer, I am gay-leaning, I definitely develop more emotional relationships with men... my preferred pronouns are he, 'hey you'..." "I was born and raised in Jersey, single mom. I was always interested in the arts, mostly theater. I started at a young age, the way elementary school kids do. Then I took classes at Freedom Theater in Philidelphia, when I was a kid, and that was mostly for dance. I did theater, of course, through high school. I was also in a band or two, and I also started doing drag, then went to college." "I started college as a film major... before their was a digital program out in Pittsburgh. I went to Point Park College; they shopped out all of their film stuff to Pittsburgh Filmmakers' Institute, and it was super expensive to ship all this... Anyway, I switched to my second choice at the time, which was theater. I went on and got my degree there, then moved out here about a year after graduation, and continued to do theater and music... sometimes more one than the other."

Like many other interviews in this series, Anja's early life was shaped by religious beliefs, which, for the most part, seem to have remained in the background. But even when those beliefs don't define you as a person, they can still affect how you perceive yourself, and the world around you. In episode 20 of Gender Inbetween, you'll learn about how she became the passionate, well-spoken person she is today. "I'm from Minneapolis, or Saint Paul, Minnesota. I was raised in kind of like a liberal, hippy, Christian family; my parents were super radical when I was really young, so that was an awesome way to be a child... even though they had the Christian thing going on. They raised me to kind of be a little bit queer, like they kind of let me and my brother — I have a brother that's two and a half years older than me — and that's pretty important to me and my life story." "They kind of let us do our thing, more for my brother. Like, my mom would bedazzle our clothes, and make clothes for us. She would bedazzle his clothes too, and he was really into it. I guess just not really pushing me into either gender category too much, in terms of toys and things like that." "So I did hang out with my brother a lot, and kind of, in a lot of ways, just followed his lead. I felt like a boy for a lot of my younger years, but also got really into dolls and all the girly stuff as well. I always felt like I was in between two extremes: I would do super girly stuff and put on princess dresses, and later be playing Power Rangers with my brother and his friends, like bro-ing out super hard. I guess having an older brother made me want to be like him."

In episode 19 of Gender Inbetween, Francesca Bonapart discusses how her conservative-baptist upbringing skewed her perception of her gender identity in ways that are, to this day, difficult to fully comprehend. "I guess growing up, it was a lot just being not only gay, but a black female and having to deal with all the racial... I think for me, I really dealt with the racial part of my identity first, and I also didn't want to deal with being gay, since I grew up in a very conservative-baptist household." "So my thought was, 'I'm not gonna come out until I leave and go to college,' 'cause I always knew I was gonna get out of New Jersey... That was kinda my way of dealing with it, even though it was so hard growing up in that household; for so many reasons, besides being gay..." "My mother wanted me to be a certain type of woman: it was weird for her to see me with different friends of different races, because she grew up in the segregated south. So, dealing with that... She thought it was cool, but it was different for her." "Then, going to school for engineering was like... she just wanted me to go to high school then find a great guy to marry, and just have children. She was like, 'do you want to struggle like Mama did? You can just marry a rich guy...' I was like, 'no, Mom, that's never happening.'"

In episode 18 of Gender Inbetween, Kriss is joined by Ty Huey, who recounts his evolution: both personally, and in drag as "Lucy Stoole." In fact, this may be the first time you've encountered Ty outside of his persona. "I am Lucy, more than I am Ty," he quips. "I like to pretend that I was born at twenty-four, when I moved to Chicago... but we all know those backstories are kinda what make us who we are." "I was born and raised in Kansas City, Kansas, mostly by my grandmother. My mother was around, for most of the time — I mean, she's always been around for my life — but she was really young when she had me, and really unsure of what was going on in her own life. So, I spent most of my time with my grandmother, up until the time I moved to Houston, when I was about 11 years old, with my mom, for about four years." "[That's] when I started to question my sexuality and just about everything else in life... which she was not okay with, so I ended up moving back home with my grandmother to finish high school. And then ... I moved to Iowa, and then to Chicago. I've been here for the past eight years."

Anna Bongiavanni is a multidisciplinary artist, focusing primarily on comics. Today on episode 17 of Gender Inbetween, they recount their story, beginning with a desire to fit on the binary, and later, how they became comfortable with their identity as genderqueer. "I was born in Alaska, [in] a medium sized town: Fairbanks. I was there until two years into my college education, where I was majoring in elementary education, despite not talking to children... Eventually, [I] transferred down to Minneapolis, so I could major in comic art, at MCAD." "I think everyone else knew something was going on before I did: my parents knew I was queer, and I think they also had an inclination that I was genderqueer, while I didn't. I feel like, for a long time, I was actively fighting against being queer in any way, in sexuality or gender. I really wanted to fit on that binary... I wanted to fit as a woman, or girl." "It wasn't until after I graduated from MCAD that I learned more about my sexuality... learned that genderqueer was a thing, and just reading about it, it felt so right. It felt so solid, that eventually I switched pronouns, thought about transitioning... I went back and forth on what that might mean for me. It's reflected in the comics and the art that I draw, is this process of figuring myself out. I use comics as a tool to help me decide these things for myself.

On episode 16 of Gender Inbetween, Emile H. explains how they grew up in a tightly defined social setting, but began to truly understand their sexuality and gender identity beginning in high school. "I grew up in Stoke Ferry England, because my parents we in the military. I spent a lot of time by myself, and a lot of time watching TV. I found myself really identifying with androgynous characters in movies and stuff, because I didn't really have much social connection... I kinda would pretend that I was those characters a lot; I guess that was one of the first instances of 'gender weirdness' happened. Then, through high school [I] experienced asexuality, I experienced queerness." "When I was in college, I really started to understand my sexuality, because I fell in love with a girl. That prompted me to think about and understand my gender and sexuality, because I kinda always assumed that I was straight, and cis — because that's kind of how I was raised... with the expectation that I was straight and cis. I was never given the vocabulary of the LGBT community, or anything like that. It was like these are very specific gender roles that you're allowed to exist in, and nothing else."

In episode 15 of Gender Inbetween, Sydney Germaine describes growing up in a supportive home. It was great, according to them, but even the most supportive environment couldn't shelter them from the impending gender disphoria. "I have fallen along many letters of the LGBTQIABCDEFG spectrum, but primarily, 't': trans. And [as for] my preferred pronouns, I've used all of them. Right now, I'm using they — mostly — but even that gets disphoric sometimes. I'm still trying to hunt for the right one." "I first realized that something was up when I was three years old. I was in daycare, and we had naptime. We'd all have to lie down and pretend to sleep for thirty minutes... and I never did. It was right around the time my mother was pregnant with my younger brother. We learned, and I was like 'oh, there are different things. Everyone doesn't just have my parts... what's going on with that?'" "For the record, I was assigned female at birth. I was like 'I'm not supposed to have those things on my chest, when I grow up. I'm not supposed to be that way.' I figured that I must be the other way."

In episode 14 of Gender Inbetween, Derek Muller discusses where they fall on the spectrum, and how activities that seem normal to them, may be foreign to others who live on the binary. But starting out here, how does Derek identify themselves? "As fall as falling on the spectrum goes, I'm considering how trans I am, and if ever to transition to a trans-woman. At this moment, I fall into the 'cross-dresser' category, very clumsily. I have feelings about that... I don't identify with that word, because I just call it 'dressing.' It's just clothing." "Otherwise, I don't know how to say it... I'm just not a guy, at all. I don't know how to describe it. I just don't have the words for it." As mentioned in the episode, Derek recorded this while on tour with their band, Whipped.

What happens when traditionally "liberal" communities raise children? Hint: even the most progressive among them, like Oak Park, Illinois, tend to strongly enforce gender roles. Marten Katze discusses growing up in a world divided between moments of support and frustration, and how one parent (at least) was their support system. "I'd like to give some props to my mother, because she didn't pigeonhole me, and try to force me to be very feminine. I had all sorts of different kinds of toys: I was never really into dolls, and she was fine with that. Actually, every single year, for Christmas and my birthday, there would be relatives who gave me Barbie dolls, and baby dolls, and tea sets... and that was really frustrating for me. I didn't like those things. I didn't hate them, but I didn't like them. They weren't what I wanted to play with." "Nobody around me seemed to listen to that, except for my mom. My mom understood. Afterwards, we would just give all those things to Salvation Army, and I could go back to playing with my dinosaurs, and my Pokemon..."

In episode 12, of Gender Inbetween, Ashly Dalene (host of The Machine show, Chick Habit) discusses growing up and discovering club culture and her personal sexuality while doing battle with naysayers and people who have attempted to police her preferences and alignments. "So, I come from a place where I wasn't even aware that there were gay people — or that it was an option, or that there were trans people — or anything different. It was a very small you know, heteronormative environment." "... I present myself as very feminine. I always say that I'm a very girly girl; I like clothes, and make up, and shopping and all of the very, you know, what anyone would consider 'girly girl' stuff." "I ran into a lot of people being like, 'Well, we think you're kind of a fake. We don't think you're actually gay or queer.' ... That was usually coming from other girls I was interested in, so that was a new shocker. I was like, 'Oh, if I want to be a lesbian, I have to dress a certain way, and act a certain way,' and that didn't make sense to me."

In episode 11, Eugene Kalsted talks about his upbringing in an environment where he was insulated as a seemingly straight male, finding the need to assimilate into that culture and saying regrettable things in order to fit in, all the while realizing how much we may very well have been talking just as much about himself. "When you grow up around those kind of people and you get so used to acting a certain way, you kind of fall into habits like that. I've used certain rude terms to describe people, stuff that I really regret. I felt very hypocritical and it killed me, pointing fingers but not pointing it at myself." Later, Eugene discusses revealing himself as queer and gay within the safety of the Chicago music community and how that liberation came with many great upturns, including acceptance from his bandmates, in his band, Jolly Korea and his ability to write lyrics that reflected his experiences in a very real way.

In this episode of Gender Inbetween, Aidan McCormack discusses being the fifth queer and trans person in the Unitarian Universalist denomination to study to become a minister, and notes changes that need to be made within the LGBTQIA community for wider acceptance among its own ranks. As you will soon discover, Aidan is unique in more ways than one. "I identify as a gender-fantastic sparkle bear. That is the identification and label that I have come to for myself. What that means, in practicality, I guess is ... I'm trans-masculine; so I transitioned from a female-identified person to someone who, by and large, is identified as male. Although, I'm genderqueer, so I don't necessarily see myself as male or female, nor do I believe that gender exists solely along a binary." Later in the conversation, Aidan touches on a serious subject, a cultural aptitude that seems to be required of many genderqueer individuals. "I think that queer people, particularly during their teenage years, have to develop and social and emotional awareness that many of our peers don't; and we have to do it to survive..." If you want to help Aidan thrive, contribute to his Indiegogo campaign.

In this episode of Gender Inbetween, Luke Repp discusses the process of navigating a religious upbringing, revealing himself as queer to family and friends, and exploring the subtleties of language in being seen as queer versus trans. "There are many parts of church that I liked a lot, so when I began finally coming to terms with who I am, I started to look for loopholes." "I spent a lot of time asking people things like, 'Hey, what do you think about this? What are your views on that?' ... I would try to gauge how people would react if I told them and when most of my friends were like, 'No, that's bad...', that was pretty rough..."

Leor Miller discusses their disappointment at not being able to dress as a character from Wicked for Halloween (at the age of 8), before having personal revelations about where they are in the queer spectrum. "My first memory of kind of feeling unhappy with maleness was a result of being really interested in Wicked: identifying with the femininity and the power [of it]." "I really looked up to Alphaba — the main character — and was unhappy when I realized [that] I can't be Alphaba... because I'm a boy. Which wasn't entirely accurate, because I could have been, but I didn't realize that. That was the first time I remember vocally expressing that I wasn't comfortable with the way I'd been brought up to believe, that I was a boy."

When you leave a restrictive lifestyle, it can be tough to find your true self. Even when it was your choice to walk away, sadly, there will almost always be remnants of it left behind. In this episode of Gender Inbetween, Anna Holmquist discusses their early roots in Christianity, followed by a time living in a "cult" where sexuality was, again, tamped down in favor of enforcing hard gender roles. Eventually, Anna left that environment and embraced themselves for the person they are. "I was in that living situation for about two years and then after I left, I was like, 'Okay, who am I now?'" "For the first time, I'm not a part of Christianity — which is a cult in and of itself — or this other cult I was in ... nobody here [is] telling me what I'm supposed to be, or look like, or do, so I really got a lot of space to not believe anything about myself before exploring who I really was..."