Inclusivity Included: Powerful personal stories

In this podcast, our hosts Elizabeth Brandon and Charletta Dawson explore the motivations and origins behind the creation of The HistoryMakers, a non-profit organization with the largest archive of first-person oral histories of renowned and unsung African Americans. Learn how Julieanna Richardson’s discovery of the accomplishments of a black artist helped her find her identity and inspired her to create The HistoryMakers.

In this episode of Inclusivity Included, host Bareeq Barqawi speaks with Foley Hoag partner Arsalan Suleman and Reed Smith’s Rizzy Qureshi and Wardah Bariabout their experiences as Muslim attorneys. This conversation explores the unique journeys, challenges, and triumphs of Muslim professionals in the legal field. Our panelists share personal stories about navigating identity in the workplace, addressing misconceptions about Islam, and fostering a culture of inclusion. Whether you're a legal professional or an ally, this episode offers valuable insights on how we can all contribute to a more equitable and supportive environment.

Shannon Llenza, Assistant General Counsel at Microsoft and Commander, U.S. Navy Reserve (retired), reflects with Reed Smith data coordinator Mark Butterfield, a member of RSVets, Reed Smith’s veterans business inclusion group, on how her military service has impacted her legal, governmental, and corporate career.

This year, we commemorated National Disabilities Employment Awareness Month by exploring how employers can work toward providing access to good jobs for persons with disabilities in the legal profession; the tangible benefits of employing persons with disabilities; the feasibility of providing accommodations; and the use of assistive technology. Our speakers provided their thoughts on best practices, shared personal journeys and insights, and reflected on how far employers have come and where we need to focus to increase future employment opportunities for persons with disabilities in the legal profession and beyond. Our guests included Kevin Hara: Counsel, Reed Smith; Ronza Othman: President, National Association of Blind Government Employees – a division of the National Federation of the Blind; Nicholas Carden: Associate General Counsel, Coinbase, and former Board Member of Disability:IN; and Laurie Allen: Microsoft, Senior Accessibility Technology Evangelist. ----more---- Transcript: Intro: Welcome to the Reed Smith Podcast, Inclusivity Included, Powerful Personal Stories. In each episode of this podcast, our guests will share their personal stories, passions, and challenges, past and present, all with a goal of bringing people together and learning more about others. You might be surprised by what we all have in common, Inclusivity Included.  Kevin: Hello, everybody. Welcome back to an episode of Inclusivity Included. Thank you, everyone, for joining. My name is Kevin Hara. I'm counsel at Reed Smith in the Life Sciences and Health Industries Group, and I'm proud to commemorate National Disabilities Employment Awareness Month, which is in October of every year. And this year's theme is access to good jobs for all. We have a number of distinguished panelists today joining us, including Ronza Othman, who is president of the National Association of Blind Government Employees, a division of the National Federation of the Blind. Nick Carden, associate general counsel from Coinbase, a former board member of Disability:IN. And Laurie Allen from Microsoft, a senior accessibility technology evangelist. So thank you, Ronza, Nick, and Laurie for joining us. We're thrilled to have you here as part of our podcast. And without further ado, I would like to ask Ronza to talk a little bit about your journey, how you have arrived where you are, and some of the important steps you took that led you to where you are today.  Ronza: Great. Thank you so much. I'm really delighted to be here. I am a blind attorney and my training was initially as a high school STEM teacher. And that's what I did to get myself through law school. And ultimately I've had a number of different legal jobs, but in state and local government and private sector, ultimately ended up in the federal government where now I manage civil rights programs for a large federal agency. And so my journey has been one of exploration and learning, not only because, you know, being a lawyer, an attorney is always difficult for any person, but also when you add the complications of inaccessible technology and perceptions about people with disabilities and what they can and cannot do, and the obstacles that those negative attitudes create, there's definitely been some really interesting experiences along the way, but I think that I'm optimistic in terms of where we are now. So my paid job, of course, is with the government. And as a volunteer, I serve as the president of the National Association of Blind Government Employees, where we have a number of blind and low vision employees of state, local, federal, and pseudo-government agencies that are members that are experiencing life as public servants, supporting this country at the local and state and national level. It is an honor to represent them and us in a variety of different circumstances, and I've gotten to do a lot of really cool things as a result.  Kevin: That's great. Thank you so much, Ronza. And Nick, if you'd like to share a little bit about your path that led you to where you are today.  Nicholas: Thanks, Kevin. And thanks to Reed Smith for having us. This is a great opportunity to speak about an important issue that impacts all of us on this call. I, like Ronza, I am a lawyer with a disability. I started my career right out of law school in-house, which is somewhat unusual, but it sort of led me to where I am today in the sense that early in my career, I was a true corporate generalist, and through various personnel changes and responsibility changes, I was at a consumer products manufacturing company and had the opportunity to pick up some, advertising and marketing and entertainment legal work. And I really enjoyed that type of work. It's a lot of fun. It's fast paced and it's highly creative and interesting work. So I've stayed in that sort of practice area as an in-house lawyer through my career to today where at Coinbase, I lead a global marketing legal team.  Kevin: Great. Thank you, Nick. And Laurie, we'd love to hear a little bit about the path you took to where you are today.  Laurie: Thanks, Kevin. And thank you again for inviting us to join you to talk about this great topic. So I am not an attorney. I work at Microsoft, as you mentioned. And I've been in tech for about 30 years. I've only been at Microsoft for a little over two. But my journey actually into accessibility started about nine and a half years ago when I had a spinal cord injury. and became quadriplegic. The only thing that didn't dramatically change about my life in that moment was my ability to do my job. And that's because of accessible technology that was available to me. And frankly, my job was quite literally a lifeline for me. So I'm so grateful that people came before me to create this technology. And about three years ago, I had this epiphany. How did this technology get created? And who built it? And why am I not part of the solution. So that's when I started pivoting my career into accessibility. So I feel quite fortunate to be in a role where I can combine my background in technology with my lived experience as a person with disability to help empower others like me, find meaningful employment, and succeed and thrive.  Kevin: Thank you so much. All of you have had such unique experiences and out to the successful careers that you are now engaged in today, but it hasn't always been easy for persons with disabilities in the legal profession and other professions to succeed. So I'd like to stay with you, Laurie, and to ask you, what do you believe are some of the barriers or challenges for persons with disabilities to find access to good jobs?  Laurie: And I think Ronza had mentioned it earlier, it's access to technology. It's discoverability, I find, that can be a barrier. People just don't know what technologies are available to support them in their work environments. And beyond that, it's finding companies who've built inclusive work environments for employees with disabilities, so that when they go through the interview process, they feel included, they feel supported, and as they're onboarded and as they can continue through their career. And then understanding that there are platforms that are available, like Mentra, for example, is a Microsoft partner. It's an amazing neurodiversity hiring platform. But I think just knowing what's available is sometimes quite difficult. And, you know, when people incur a disability like I did, they're starting from scratch, and they don't know what to ask for because it's a new environment for them.  Kevin: Thank you. That's a really good point. Having the access to the proper tools is key for anybody with a disability to succeed in any career path. Ronza, how about your perspective? How would you characterize some of the challenges people are facing and ways to overcome them?  Ronza: I think that the biggest challenge that the people with disabilities are really facing in terms of employment and just moving about society and contributing meaningfully in employment settings, but also in every setting, is the negative attitudes that people at large have about disability. Negative stereotypes. The unemployment rate for people with disabilities in the United States is over 50%. The unemployment rate for people who are blind and low vision in the United States is half again that almost at 75%. It's currently at 73%. That's mind boggling. These are people who want to work for the most part, but can't because nobody will hire them or because they don't have the proper training to be able to perform the jobs where there is a need. But all that really comes down to society's low expectations for people with disabilities and the barriers, artificial, usually, that society creates and puts in our way. One of the things that I really like to do as a hiring manager is I love meeting with and interviewing people with disabilities because they're so creative in their problem-solving. Their solutioning is out of the box thinking. And just to get to work in the morning, to get to the job, they have to have solved a whole bunch of problems in an environment, in a situation, in a society, not necessarily built for them. Whether it's the broken elevator, or whether it's the bus that didn't roll up to the bus stop where it was supposed to, or whether it's the technology that didn't work because somebody pushed a security update, so it broke its ability to communicate with assistive technology, or whether it's somebody, a well-meaning, you know, abled person who decided that they know where this person is trying to go and they're going to force them to go there as opposed to where the person is actually trying to go. All of those things, people with disabilities problem solve before they, you know, really start their day or as they're starting their day. And so I think we don't give enough credit to the workforce of folks with disabilities in terms of what they can do, what they have done, frankly, and then society just has negative expectations. The biggest aspect of disability isn't the disability itself. It's people without disabilities or people who don't understand disabilities who get in our way.  Nicholas: I’d love to add to that because I agree with a lot of that. And I think thinking about access to jobs, the question that comes to mind to me is, do employers want to hire persons with disabilities. And I think there's no clear answer to that. And obviously, companies themselves are just made up of other human beings. And so there's, to Ronza’s point, the stigma attached to hiring persons with disabilities is ever present. But I'll share specifically in the legal industry, I think this industry does a particularly poor job of being intentional about hiring a truly diverse workforce. And this is, I'm calling out the legal industry as somebody who's in it, but I don't think it's unique to the legal industry in the sense that I still don't think when law firms are hiring for diverse candidates that they make a particular effort to recruit persons with disabilities. I think it can be as simple as asking for a voluntary disclosure on an application. And I still don't think as an industry we're doing those types of things. So there seem to be opportunities if the answer to the question of do you want to hire persons with disabilities is yes.  Ronza: I’ll just add to that, if I may. When you look at the United States census data on people with disabilities, somewhere between 20% and 25% of the population of this country has a disability. When you look at the census in the legal profession, when you look at the numbers in the legal profession, and the American Bar Association has done extensive research trying to sort this out, figure it out, as some other entities, it's less than 1%. Less than 1% of attorneys in the United States are willing to disclose that they have a disability. And those who are, it's usually an obvious or very visible disability, as opposed to some of these hidden disabilities that there's still so much stigma in the legal profession around. In the regular generic work industry generally, not specifically the legal profession, but everywhere, there's this misconception that it's going to be really expensive to hire somebody with a disability because you have to accommodate them or you have to adjust schedules or policies and so forth and so on. The Job Accommodation Network, which is a free resource to employers and employees about what's available in terms of reasonable accommodations for those with disabilities, did a study and they determined that the average cost of a reasonable accommodation is less than $100. So talking about negative attitudes and negative perceptions, one of them for employers, It's that it's going to cost me a lot of money or somehow the work I'm going to receive from this person is going to be less in terms of quality or quantity than other non-disabled employees and so forth and so on. And all of that is just not accurate. It's not supported by research and it's certainly not supported by those of us in the community with lived experience in the workforce.  Kevin: That's an excellent point, Ronza, and Nick as well. You both have captured the problem that we're facing in providing good jobs to persons with disabilities. I think dispelling the myths and misconceptions is one of the important steps. And I also think technology can play an important role. We alluded to this a little bit more, but Laurie, if you would like to speak a little bit more about how technology can really help people with disabilities succeed.  Laurie: Thanks, Kevin. So the way we approach it at Microsoft is we build with the community, not for the community. We mentioned it in the last question. We bring people with lived experience into our company. We want that diverse lived experience in our product making. I have a spinal cord injury. I know what it's like to have a mobility disability. I don't know what it's like to be blind and rely on a screen reader. And I can't assume what someone who uses a screen reader needs. So we take an approach of building in early. We build in accessibility into the design phase of our product development life cycle. We bring testers in who have different types of disabilities to test our products before we release them. And what we find, and Ron's mentioned it earlier, is that we get really creative solutions because, as she mentioned, we have to be creative to get out the door every morning. And when we do this, we find that everyone benefits. When we call it Built for One, Extend to Many. When we build with the disability community, everyone benefits. And I'll give you an example. For example, live captions were built for people who are deaf or hard of hearing, but 50% of Americans watch videos with live captions on, and if you narrow that down to Gen Z, it goes up to about 80%. So when we build for people with disabilities, everyone benefits.  Kevin: I think that's a really astute observation. It's not just about helping one particular segment, but including people with disabilities when you're building the technology is really important. And, you know, I couldn't thank you more for that approach, Laurie, because, you know, I also have a mobility disability, a spinal cord injury. So I understand from my perspective. But as you said, I wouldn't be able to talk about or understand what the needs of a person with a visual or other disability might be. So that's really good. And Ronza or Nick, would you like to weigh in on technology, how it has helped you, or how do you think it can help others?  Ronza: So technology really is, it leveled the playing field for many populations within the disability community. And so, for example, for the blind community, so much of the information that we receive is visual. So much as paper had historically been paper-based but you know street signs billboards all of the things that happen visually and on the computer though now we can have access to that same information or I can go to an ATM machine and I can plug in my headphones and I can pull out my money I can go to a voting booth in most states and I can privately and independently but vote my ballot. You know there's still places where of course there's work to do but in general the proliferation of technology solutions over the last 20 or 30 years has really made a huge impact on our ability to access information engage in the world and especially with our jobs, so whether it's a screen reader or whether it's a software that's used that is speech to text for those with manual dexterity challenges or whether it's a foot pedal instead of a mouse or whatever the case may be. There's just been such advances in technology that have made it more possible for an individual with a disability to work in so many different fields. Think about all the technology that exists now. Surgeons are doing surgery with robots some of the time. Technology is super cool. It's super advanced and it's only going to get more and more advanced. And so hopefully that means that participation of the disability community at work and in other places is also going to increase. Now, the drawback is, the more innovated the technology, the more risk of potential opportunities to make it inaccessible. And so we have to be really careful when we embrace technology because that's really important, but that it also is accessible. It is compatible with that assistive technology that I mentioned, but also that we're not so focused on creativity and innovation that we're cutting people out that we've recently gave access to these platforms and applications. And we're seeing that. We are seeing technology become less inclusive in lots of different spaces. And then, you know, so build it accessibly, you know, talking to our friends at Microsoft and everywhere else who are thinking about this every day. But also, whether we're building technology or whether we're building buildings or physical spaces or virtual spaces, you know, thinking about what does it mean for us to be inclusive? Who are we building for? And not related to technology, but when we started putting in curb cuts when the ADA was passed, that was primarily done for people who were using wheelchairs and other kinds of mobility devices. And now the population that is the most vocal, the biggest fans, are parents and caregivers of small children that are pushing strollers. And so, you know, again, that sort of universal effort, the Ray-Ban Metaglasses is another example. It wasn't built for people with disabilities, but people with disabilities are using it because it had inclusive universal design built into it. We're using it to read menus and help with navigation indoor and outdoor and wayfinding and all sorts of amazing things happening with technology and beyond. So the key is it's fabulous, but we also have to make sure that it stays fabulous by being inclusive and accessible.  Laurie: You make such a good point there, Ronza, and I think with this wave of generative AI and everyone racing to get products to market, it's more important than ever to be rigorous and disciplined in continuing to build accessibility in from the beginning and test it thoroughly all the way through before it's released.  Ronza: 100%.  Kevin: Ronza and Laurie, those are excellent points that you made. And I really think technology will go a long way to helping people with disabilities of all types become part of the workforce, become part of the legal profession. And I think we have all lived through recently the pandemic that, you know, was affected everyone, not just persons with disabilities. But I think one of the things that came out of that was the importance of remote work and how that can really change the landscape. And Nick, I believe Coinbase is, you said, almost all remote. So can you comment on how that has impacted you and how you think that affects people with disabilities in terms of having access to jobs?  Nicholas: Yeah, Coinbase is a remote first company. So everyone in the company has the option to be remote first. We do have some office locations in some major cities if some people feel like they want to go into an office, but there's no requirement to do that. And in my view, I don't know that remote work benefits just persons with disabilities. I think we can all agree that it benefits a lot more groups than just persons with disabilities. To me, the bottom line of the benefit of remote work is it levels the playing field for everyone. So if we're all remote, we don't. There's no small group or other group or specific individual or groups of individuals that have to worry about what's happening in an office. Are some people getting ahead by having lunches or just getting that face time that they otherwise aren't able to do to be into the office? Whether that's because they live somewhere else where the office isn't, or they're a person with a disability and it's not easy to get into the office, or for any other reason of why it doesn't make sense. I think specifically for parents with children who are working. Remote work is a great benefit. So I love what remote work does for everyone. And it's been a real benefit. I think Coinbase deserves a lot of credit. For being one of the first companies in I think it was may of 2020 to decide that is how we're going to operate our company we think we can do it effectively and so far now you know four plus years later they're doing really well and um i don't have any knowledge that that Coinbase is changing their practices but it works very well for Coinbase and I'm sort of discouraged to see some of these companies deciding to go to a hybrid or fully return to office status. But obviously, that's their decision. And the people that are making that are thinking that it's in their best interest. I just don't know how much input they're getting from a voice of someone with a person with a disability.  Laurie: One other point is it expands the talent pool that employers can recruit from. They're not limited to just their area or just the people who can come into the office, but it really broadens that talent pool and once again, enables them to bring a more diverse workforce into their organization.  Ronza: So I'll say that, you know, in the government workforce, we have seen this switch, right? So prior to the pandemic, there were some people that were working remotely, but not very many because the perception was, no, no, no, we can't do this work remote in a remote way. We need to serve the people, the public, etc. And then the pandemic happened and bam, we have to work remotely in order to serve the people. And then everything was moving along. And I think that was really the renaissance for the disability community and government. And then government started shifting back to more in-person presence and more and more in-person presence. And the thought was, well, if you need to work from home, you can request a reasonable accommodation. And while that's true, it can be very isolating. If we're not building work, community. In a way that's hybrid or in a way that is inclusive of those that are working from home for whatever reason, then we are excluding those people. And so giving them the ability to work from home as a reasonable accommodation, if that's the solution, it can't be the only solution because what it does is it creates a different expectation and standard and isolation. And all these people with a disability are over here and everyone else is over here. And so I think employers need to really be thinking mindfully about what a hybrid work environment looks like and how to ensure inclusion for those who, for whatever reason, are working from home all or much of the time. And we can do it. We have done it. We've been very creative in the last five years. But I think we're just not thinking about it. We're letting the economic and other considerations and, you know, the ease. My favorite phrase that people give me was, well, we need people in the building because of line of sight supervision. And I always say, well, I'm a manager and I'm blind. So line of sight supervision doesn't do anything for me. Are you saying I'm not as good of a manager as you? And then, you know, they don't mean it that way, but that's how it comes off. And that's really how they're thinking. They're thinking they have to be in my space for me to effectively manage them, which we have proven doesn't have to be the case. In fact, we can be very effective as if not more productive with people in their own comfortable environment.  Kevin: Ronza, you expressed that better than I could ever have done. I think that's a really important aspect of remote work. It could not put anyone at a disadvantage or be isolating. With the last couple minutes we have left, I'd just like to hear from everyone about where we have come from and what you'd like to see in the future, some progress we've made, and where you think we still need to improve. So Nick, if you'd like to talk a little bit about that.  Nicholas: Yeah, I'll say I can recall an instance about 12, 13 years ago, maybe, where I was interested in a summer internship with a law firm. And I noticed they had a diversity recruitment event, something like that. And they were looking for women and ethnically diverse or persons of color to attend. And I recall thinking to myself, well, I am a white male, but if they're looking for diverse candidates, I would assume that they would be interested in a person with a disability. So I emailed the firm's event organizer and I sort of posed the question of, can I attend? And of course the answer was yes, but it really goes to show where we were 12 to 14 years ago. And we may still be there in terms of what diversity is and or how law firms specifically view diversity. It may just be that they focus on these two categories. And that is a fine thing. It's just not an inclusive thing. I sort of commend the efforts. And I think we've gone farther than that over the past 12 to 14 years. But if we want to create an inclusive industry, doing so in an exclusive manner is not going to get us there. And I would encourage firms in their recruitment efforts to think about all of the minority groups or underrepresented groups in this industry and make intentional efforts to be inclusive for all of them.  Kevin: Thank you, Nick. Ronza, would you like to add?  Ronza: Sure, I 100% agree. I think that it's not just in the legal profession, it's in a lot of professions that the focus on diversity has been on race and gender and, you know, the SOGI areas. And there hasn't been as much advancement with disability, but this is certainly an opportunity. The American Bar Association currently has a campaign called the Be Counted Campaign for lawyers specifically and those in the legal profession who do have disabilities who can, you know, confidentially essentially be counted as a member of the disability community so that we can get a better number of who in fact is in this profession because we know it's not half a percent. You know, we know it's more than that. And we need to eliminate the stigma in this and every profession for those that are comfortable, psychologically safe, identifying as people with disabilities, even if it's anonymized, to be able to do so. I am optimistic in terms of where we're headed. I think the effort that we've put forward as a disability community and nothing about us without us has really tremendously borne some fruit. And I think though there's work to do, I think we've come a long way. I think that the ADA regulations on Title II that were the Department of Justice released are going to be a game changer. I think that when the Title III regulations are released, whenever that is, it's going to be another huge game changer. I think that Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act is very, very much in need of a refresh and some updates. And when that happens, and I know there's some effort in Congress already, that's going to help. And I think some of the fundamental civil rights laws and protections in states and in the federal sector are going to continue this progress. But those are just the underpinning. It's the attitudes of people. It's listening to a podcast like this and learning about people you didn't think about before or aspects you didn't think about before, and then becoming a good ally to those communities. If you are in the community and feel comfortable speaking up with your lived experience, that's going to be a game changer too. 25% of this country. That's who we are. And so everybody knows somebody. Everybody has a family member who is a person with a disability who've experienced some of these challenges. Listen to their stories. Ask about their stories. Educate yourself and become a good ally so that the next generation has an easier time. That's what I'm excited about because I see it happening much more often. And I think it will continue to happen in this generation and the ones to come.  Kevin: Thank you so much. Laurie, how about you? what do you see in the future?  Laurie: Well, I think these are all such great points. And I'm going to go back to Nick's example. You know, I think historically DE&I has included, you know, a lot of minority groups except the disability community. And more and more, as I'm speaking with, you know, our enterprise customers, they're starting to add accessibility into that equation and really target disability hiring and bringing disabled talent into their pipelines. A lot of organizations are creating neurodiversity centers of excellence and neurodiversity hiring programs to specifically target that part of the population. So like Ronza said, I'm encouraged and I'm seeing this become a much higher priority for our enterprise customers. And again, to echo what she just said, I think the more we talk about it, the more we have podcasts and people listen to podcasts, the more comfortable and confident we get. I think we don't talk about accessibility because we're uncomfortable talking about disability, because people are afraid they're going to say the wrong thing. And at some point, we are all going to say the wrong thing, and that's okay. It's a learning opportunity for all of us. So again, thank you for the opportunity for us to come together today and talk about this really, really important topic.  Kevin: Well, I just want to say very heartfelt thanks to all of you, Laurie, Ronza, and Nick for all of your insights today, for your time, and for the lessons you've shared with us. I think people will really get a lot out of this. And for our listeners, thank you for joining us for Inclusivity Included, and please stay tuned for future episodes. Thanks, everyone.  Outro: Inclusivity Included is a Reed Smith production. Our producers are Ali McCardell and Shannon Ryan. You can find our podcasts on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, reedsmith.com, and our social media accounts.  Disclaimer: This podcast is provided for educational purposes. It does not constitute legal advice and is not intended to establish an attorney-client relationship, nor is it intended to suggest or establish standards of care applicable to particular lawyers in any given situation. Prior results do not guarantee a similar outcome. Any views, opinions, or comments made by any external guest speaker are not to be attributed to Reed Smith LLP or its individual lawyers.   All rights reserved.  Transcript is auto-generated.

In this episode, we highlight the achievements of the Leadership Institute for Women of Color Attorneys (LIWOCA). Reed Smith partner Kendra Perkins Norwood is joined by LIWOCA’s founder, Marian Cover Dockery, and vice president, Philippa Ellis, to discuss their efforts to support women of color in overcoming barriers within the legal profession. Marian shares insights into the challenges faced by women of color attorneys and the transformative impact LIWOCA has had over its 20-year history. From offering scholarships and hosting national conferences to fostering mentorship and professional growth, LIWOCA remains a beacon of empowerment and continues to drive change in the legal community. ----more---- Transcript: Intro: Welcome to the Reed Smith podcast, Inclusivity Included: Powerful Personal Stories. In each episode of this podcast, our guests will share their personal stories, passions, and challenges, past and present, all with a goal of bringing people together and learning more about others. You might be surprised by what we all have in common, inclusivity included.  Kendra: Hello, I am Kendra Perkins Norwood, a government contracts partner at Reed Smith LLP based in Washington, D.C., and I am elated to welcome you to this very special episode of the Inclusivity Included podcast. So this is a special series of Inclusivity Included, and it's dedicated to an organization that is very near and dear to my heart called the Leadership Institute for Women of Color Attorneys, otherwise known as LIWOCA. So Reed Smith was very gracious in agreeing to host and sponsor this LIWOCA series of Inclusivity Included. And as a Reed Smith partner and a member of the LIWOCA Board of Trustees, I could not be more proud to be a part of bringing this podcast to life. So thank you very much to Reed Smith for their generous support. Now, many of you may be wondering exactly what is LIWOCA. So it is an organization whose mission is to help women of color attorneys in law firms and corporate legal departments, develop skills to become leaders in the legal profession. LIWOCA is also dedicated to assisting law firms and corporations with retaining and promoting women of color attorneys. And last but not least, the organization is dedicated to fueling the pipeline of women of color attorneys through law school scholarships. Today, for our inaugural episode, we are so fortunate to have as our guests LIWOCA’s founder, Marian Cover Dockery, as well as a longtime LIWOCA member, Philippa Ellis. So I would like to welcome you both to the podcast. We're so excited to have you here, and I will just turn the mic over to you for you two to get started.  Philippa: Thank you, Kendra. It is quite an honor to have this time with you, Marian, as CEO of Leadership Institute for Women of Color Attorneys. And I am excited to talk to you about your role with starting Leadership Institute for Women of Color Attorneys. I'll call it LIWOCA. You know, LIWOCA has awarded over $300,000 in scholarships to deserving law students, hosted 20 national networking conferences for women of color attorneys from across the nation. And the organization has provided a platform for not only professional networking, but also professional development and mentorship connections. So as we're approaching a big number, 20th anniversary, coming up on the April 23rd through 24th conference in 2025, Marian, take us back to the moment in time when you initially had the idea to launch LIWOCA.  Marian: Thank you. And I just want to say before I launch into that, I want to thank Reed Smith on behalf of LIWOCA for underwriting this and Kendra Norwood, partner at Reed Smith, and Rachel Patterson of ORC who facilitated this podcast. Let me go back to the American Bar Association conference in Chicago, which was 20 years ago, the Commission on Women in the Profession were holding a session, and the session focused on a report, a riveting report called Visible Invisibility. That report chronicled the and detailed the sexual harassment, sexual discrimination, racial discrimination, and disrespect that women of color all across the nation were experiencing in law firms. So after that report was read, a colleague of mine, Julia Doolin, and I went back to Atlanta and decided that we could do something about this. So my idea was to have an annual conference, bringing all of these talented women into one space and giving them support through sessions, panel discussions, also just keynote speakers who could impart their knowledge and advice regarding becoming successful in law firms. We had to figure out, first of all, how we were going to put this on because we had to have money. So luckily, I had two contacts who were CEOs. One who I'd worked with on the Pace Academy board, the CEO of Rooms to Go, and another who was the CEO of Darden Restaurants, who I'd met through one of my good friends. He was her brother-in-law. And I just sent both of them emails and told them what trying to do. And both sent big checks. And after that, we were on our way because posting those two companies as sponsors. All the Atlanta firms and other firms and companies followed. To put the program together, I just called friends and associates and really calls her friends and associates to work or serve on panels and to serve as keynote speakers. We had two keynote speakers that year. Chief Justice Leah Sears, who was the first African American to serve on the Georgia Supreme Court, and the youngest woman ever to serve on a state Supreme Court, and Judge Glenda Hatchett, the TV personality who was the former juvenile court judge. And we had a Fulton County. And we just had two great speakers. Glenda auctioned off one of her shoes, which launched an auction that we have an auction even today. But it's not her shoe. It's a quilt. We auction off quilts every year that O.V. Brantley, the former Fulton County attorney and DeKalb County attorney, donates to us every year. And that's how we got started. And we did that for two years, we were the Leadership Academy, and then we reincorporated as the Leadership Institute with a planning committee because it was too much work for a couple of people. And so here we are today.  Philippa: And 20 years later, Marian, you know, thinking about what you mentioned about Justice Sears being a first, you yourself have, you know, a checklist of firsts. You were the first woman and first diverse attorney in the legal department at FedEx. You were also the first African-American woman to serve in an executive management position at BP Oil. And those are just a couple of roles you held during your journey to serving as CEO of LIWOCA and at the same time you have an active labor and employment discrimination and wage and hour claims practice. You've practiced for 40 years and just looking at your trajectory and your journey in the legal profession, have you been able or do you feel you've been able to impart that type of support and meet your goals for the organization, as you mentioned, with a goal of supporting diverse women lawyers?  Marian: Absolutely. One of my goals for the annual conference was to bring experienced senior attorneys into a room with attorneys starting out who could impart their knowledge, their expertise, how to navigate racism and sexual harassment in the workplace without derailing your career. I've wanted more experienced attorneys to interface with the younger attorneys to give them informal mentoring. And we've done that. We've done that through just informally, but also we had some what we call speed mentoring sessions throughout the years. But more importantly, I don't think of it as a conference. I thought of it as an experience. It was so uplifting having all these wonderful, accomplished women in one room who were excited to see each other because so many of these women, as I was, are the only ones in their firm, maybe in their law firm, but maybe not in their section if they were in big law. Many women were unhappy with big law, and the study showed, Invisible Invisibility, showed that women of color were leaving the legal profession because they were so disillusioned and so disappointed and unhappy. But one of the goals was to present to them alternatives to working in big law. You could go to a smaller or mid-sized firm and be happier. You could go perhaps in-house or work in the government or work in nonprofits, but don't give up the practice of law because the social implications for that were just huge. And we put so many resources, money and time into going through law school and passing the bar and our hopes and dreams to give up the practice of law just because of bad experience at one firm was just something we didn't want people to consider.  Philippa: You know, Marian, you also, and just kind of thinking about all of the mentorship relationships that have been sparked from the LIWOCA conferences and all of the connections, you know, the legacy of LIWOCA is one of support. Sisterhood, professional sisterhood, and, you know, also the scholarships that have been provided to law students. Can you talk a little bit about how you decided to provide that support for law students, aspiring lawyers?  Marian: We decided to provide scholarships for lawless students, but that was only after we knew financially we could do so. We were a startup organization, and it was important for us to conserve our funds. So the idea for scholarships actually was Julia, who left the organization. And when we got to that point, I think it was maybe our third conference or maybe it was our second conference, we were able to offer some money. But running a business, you know, you want to have money in reserve. We were able to do that, but also what you were saying about the mentoring and support, the environment for leadership is one of support. It is one where people feel comfortable enough to walk up to you and say, at least many have just come up to me and ask a question, and they may have a problem. And I don't think all conferences create that atmosphere. I don't think all conferences create that environment where you feel that comfort level. So for me, I just felt so blessed to be able to meet women from all over the United States, women of color from all of the United States, who were successful, who were committed to their careers, and committed to reaching back and providing advice to younger attorneys who were starting their careers. Throughout sessions, I think we have been able to give support as well. It's important for our attorneys to take care of their physical health, their emotional health. I believe at that first conference, we had one young lady who was obviously suffering from depression. We need to learn how to manage our finances because many start with law firms making lots of money and they don't know how to manage it. And then if they get cut and they have to go to a job paying them less, they are faced with financial challenges. So that first conference, we had someone from one of the big financial firms give a presentation on that. And we have done that almost every year thereafter, how to invest in your retirement, how to have a rainy day fund, you know, live a little below your means. And once you get to the point where you have your savings and you can pay all your bills, we want you to start investing your money in addition to retirement for a rainy day.  Philippa: And those goals you've talked about have, you know, just as a conference attendee at that first conference, I remember learning so much that, you know, so many tools to place in my toolkit. And I know that others that I've heard over the years, how many other attendees say pretty much their cup is full when they attend a conference and they leave ready to tackle the profession, ready to tackle, you know, everything that all of the challenges that are placed before them, you know, in their in this legal profession. And just want to say to you, Marian, I agree with you that your goals have been met and just as someone who has attended every conference. And I'd like to hear from you on what you've had such wonderful conferences and I agree that they are truly an experience. So looking back, can you share some of the most memorable moments for you as the founder and CEO of LIWOCA, just reflecting over the past 20 years?  Marian: Oh, there's so many. One was the networking reception that LexisNexis sponsored. We had several of those receptions where we sat down at tables with our hors d'oeuvres and drinks and wrapped. Each person was asked to bring a book, age appropriate for a young woman, 10 to 14, 10 to 13 years old, and write a little note in the cover of the book. LexisNexis provided the gift wrap and the tape and the scissors. But while we were wrapping, and people wrapped more than one or two books, because LexisNexis also provided some extra books for people who may have forgotten to bring some. And while we were sitting there wrapping all those books, and we wrapped over 300 books that were donated to the Coretta Scott King Academy, and to Girls, Inc. But while we were wrapping those books, we also had conversations with attendees. We met attendees, we networked, and it was a true networking event. And it was fun. And we were at the same time doing something, you know, for charity. And then also, I remember some of our great speakers, the Honorable Vanessa Gilmore, who was the federal district judge at that time for the Southern District of Texas. She was so engaging and so funny, we couldn't get people out of the lunchroom. They continued asking questions. We were ringing the bell. I was trying to usher people out. And we were 30 minutes behind our next session. She was just that fantastic. Michele Coleman Mayes. She was the general counsel of Allstate. And she brought her mentee on the stage. And they engaged in a conversation. And she was really her sponsor. But that conversation was in a format that she created. It wasn't our idea, but it was a big hit because the attendees listening to that conversation were able to walk away with some ideas from that conversation. Also, Sandra Leung, who was the executive vice president and general counsel for Bristol Myers Squibb, she was just fantastic. I think everyone enjoyed her speech. She just gave so much good advice and talked about her career trajectory. And, of course, our first conference was actually my favorite conference because it was probably because it was the first and was like, oh, my God, it's a success, able to do this. It happened. Starting anything from scratch is hard work. And when you say, don't say you Marianne, but it was after, you know, that second year, it was a planning committee. And a lot of people, including you, contributed to making those conferences a success. There's no way year after year I could have done that by myself. Although I was conference president and conference chair for 10 years. And, you know, that is a heavy, that's a heavy burden to carry, but it was a labor of love. So those are some of the highlights of the conference and just mingling with people and meeting new people. I feel so fortunate to have met women of color attorneys from all over the country who I never would have met. And also a lot in Georgia. I never would have met you. Because we work in our silos unless we go to your reception or national conference and that's usually going to you're usually going to gravitate to those sessions in your specialty it's hard to meet new people so those are some of the the highlight for me.  Philippa: You know, LIWOCA has been so successful over these past 20 years. There's a steady flow of lawyers wanting to get involved with planning and those who attend. What else is there for Marian Cover Dockery to do? What do you envision as next steps for LIWOCA? What's on the horizon?  Marian: Well, one of the initiatives we've already started, and that's to have regional events. We had our first in Santa Monica this summer. Teresa Becerra, who's a partner at Spencer Fane, connected with me through one of our attendees, Rachel Patterson, who I guess she said, how can we do this? And I said, you tell me what you want me when you want to do it and I'll be there. And another attorney in Philadelphia, likewise, wants to have a networking reception or a reception actually to introduce LIWOCA to attorneys and partners who are unaware of the organization to help our organization grow. So in Santa Monica, there were eight to 10 attorneys, women of color. None of them had heard of LIWOCA. All of them were excited about it. All of them wanted to come next year and hopefully, you know, bring an associate from their firm. So I would like to see us grow, but I don't, you know, it's really not my decision. We have a board now. We have a planning committee. We were an executive committee. Personally, I don't want us to grow where we've got thousands of people if that were ever possible. I like the idea of having a manageable group of people because I think that the level of comfort for many of the attorneys who aren't real gregarious and outgoing to just approach someone and ask them for advice, I think it increases with a smaller, more comfortable number of attendees. I also would like to see us create a job board so that people know of job opportunities in the legal profession. I would also like a newsletter that would give the attendees an opportunity to submit articles that perhaps they have written or already published to help, you know, get the word out that, and also that's helpful for them if they are trying to develop business. So among our group of attendees, we have so many who are representing corporations like you, law firm, and someone may see an article and be impressed with it, and that might be an opportunity for the person who wrote the article for a future job opportunity. So those are some of the things I would like to see. This podcast is great. More marketing opportunities to get the word out about our organization. There's so much room for, you know, several of these types of organizations You cannot have too many And even though there are not a lot of women of color attorneys We are scattered all over the United States. And there is a critical mass that needs to be served. And just let me just say this, that you were talking about my past. My first job, legal job, was in a law firm where it was as a law clerk. And I was so disillusioned working in that job because one of the partners came on to me and I quit. And it was a small firm. It wasn't like it was a big firm and I could avoid this guy. And so when I heard that report, I understood how many of those women felt who left their law practice. Of course, I was just clerking in a law firm a second year, so that's not the same as having a permanent job where you're depending on that salary. But just think about, I mean, you know, I thought about that. I said, how horrible, all your hopes and dreams and your excitement and enthusiasm, you're going to practice law, you pass the bar, you're entering this firm, and you're faced with all these obstacles. So I think back 40-plus years when that happened, when I was in law school, and to think that it's still going on now is very disconcerting. But I believe that women are smarter now. They can be given tools and advice as to how to circumvent that. And, of course, we have sexual harassment laws. And, you know, most lawyers aren't going to sue a firm, but they have options. They have options to work in other places that are more friendly for women and that are really focused on promoting and elevating women.  Philippa: Definitely, the LIWOCA does serve as a place where women of lawyers can convene and share their journey, you know, obstacles, share their successes, you know, meet, find mentors and become mentors. I mean, you have just really filled an unmet need and so glad you attended that American Bar Association meeting where you learned of the Visible Invisibility Study. And, you know, as we close, you know, what would be your message to any woman of color or any supporter or ally who is contemplating getting involved with LIWOCA or attending a conference? What would be your message to them or what guidance would you provide?  Marian: Well, I would tell them to go to our website, leadingwomanofcolor.org, and register for our next conference and tell their friends about it. I would also say if you've already attended a conference and you'd like to get involved, email our administrator at info@leadingwomanofcolor.org. Sue Ann Daniel will put you in touch with whoever is the president at that time. This year, our president is Gillian Crowl. So, you know, there's always room for help. And if you don't have time to work on a planning committee as a member, because it is a lot of work, we don't want to sugarcoat it. It's a lot of work. You can't practice law and then be involved in 10 other things and then this. Be smart about how you want to contribute. You can contribute to LIWOCA, as I said, by donating, sending an article to us, and, you know, we'll put it in a newsletter or sending your job openings, and we'll put it on a job board. That is the advice I would give to anyone who's interested. And then when they come to the conference, I would seek out a planning committee member and ask them what was involved. But don't get involved just to put it on your resume. You have to be committed because it is a time commitment. It's work. It's work. And let me just add this. It's a lot less work now that we have an administrator because we didn't always have an administrator. And our administrator is fantastic because she's also technologically adapted to doing everything. She has skills that we appreciate. And she is organized and she's worked on these conferences enough to know what has to be done.  Philippa: Well, Marian, as we close, I would like to repeat that email is info@leadingwomenofcolor.org. Marian Cover Dockery, founder and CEO of LIWOCA, thank you so much for your commitment to improving the profession, for helping others, for providing encouragement, support, financial support even for the law school scholars. Thank you for your legacy of excellence. Just thank you.  Marian: Well, thank you, Philippa, and thank you for all that you have done over the years to help make the organization a success as our vice chair.  Kendra: Wow, what a fantastic first episode of our podcast, and how amazing has it been to hear from both of you about all these wonderful memories of such a tremendous organization and one that I'm very, very proud to be affiliated with. So thank you both for your time, for all your efforts over the years, and we look forward to seeing another set of special guests on the very next episode of Inclusivity Included, the LIWOCA edition. Thanks so much.  Outro: Inclusivity Included is a Reed Smith production. Our producers are Ali McCardell and Shannon Ryan. You can find our podcasts on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, reedsmith.com, and our social media accounts.  Disclaimer: This podcast is provided for educational purposes. It does not constitute legal advice and is not intended to establish an attorney-client relationship, nor is it intended to suggest or establish standards of care applicable to particular lawyers in any given situation. Prior results do not guarantee a similar outcome. Any views, opinions, or comments made by any external guest speaker are not to be attributed to Reed Smith LLP or its individual lawyers.  All rights reserved.  Transcript is auto-generated.

In this episode, we spotlight members of Reed Smith’s UNIDOS business inclusion group for Latin/Latinx attorneys and staff. Join DEI talent development supervisor Bareeq Barqawi as she moderates an insightful conversation with senior associate Daniel Avila, senior paralegal Kathy Puente-Ladisa, and associate Isabella Lorduy. They share their unique career journeys, how their Latin/Latinx identity has influenced their professional experiences, and the powerful role that UNIDOS has played in fostering community and support within the firm. ----more---- Transcript: Intro: Welcome to the Reed Smith podcast, Inclusivity Included: Powerful Personal Stories. In each episode of this podcast, our guests will share their personal stories, passions, and challenges, past and present, all with a goal of bringing people together and learning more about others. You might be surprised by what we all have in common, inclusivity included.  Bareeq: Welcome everyone to another episode of Inclusivity Included, Reed Smith's DEI podcast series, where we dive into the experiences, stories, and insights of our diverse firm members, clients, community members, and allies. I'm Bareeq Barqawi, Reed Smith's DEI Talent Development Supervisor, and today I'm thrilled to be joined by three distinguished members of our UNIDOS Business Inclusion Group for Latin and Latinx attorneys and staff, Danny Avila, Kathy Puente-Ladisa, and Isabella Lorduy. So Danny, Kathy, Isabella, could you each briefly introduce yourselves to our listeners and tell us about your current roles at Reed Smith. Danny, I will start with you.  Daniel: Perfect. Thank you so much, Bareeq. So I'm based out of the Houston office of Reed Smith. I'm part of Reed Smith's international arbitration team and the complex disputes teams. I'm currently the global chair for UNIDOS, our Hispanic Latinx business inclusion Group, as well as the head of our pro bono for our Houston office.  Bareeq: Thank you, Danny. And Kathy?  Kathy: Hi, everyone. Thank you, Bareeq, so much for having me. My name is Kathy Puente Larisa, and I am originally from Quito, Ecuador. I joined Reed Smith over 10 years ago, starting as a paralegal for the transportation group. However, I just recently transitioned into a newly created role as the industry group administrator for the transportation industry group. It's a bit of a hybrid role. And I am also the Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion staff liaison for the New York office.  Bareeq: Fantastic. Thank you. And Isabella?  Isabella: Hello, everyone. I am Isabella Lorduy. I am originally from Colombia, and I am an associate at Reed Smith, where I'm part of both the Energy and Natural Resources group, focusing on international arbitration cases. And I'm also part of the Latin American business team. And And I'm also a member of the UNIDOS group here at Reed Smith.  Bareeq: Wonderful. Thank you so much for your introductions. It's always inspiring to hear about the variety of roles within our firm. So let's dive into what brought you here. I'm really inspired to learn more about your stories and inspired to learn what made you pursue a career in law or the legal industry, specifically maybe in your current role, and how did that lead you to Reed Smith specifically? I'm actually going to start with you, Isabella.  Isabella: So from a very young age, I've always been passionate about international politics and relations. And when I discovered the world of international law, particularly arbitration, it truly clicked for me. It's a field where I get to do what I love, which is interacting with diverse cultures, languages, backgrounds, and even different laws. So I think there are three key moments in my journey that led me to where I am today and being at Reed Smith. First, pursuing a career in international law through law school in Colombia, and then finding great mentors who not only guided me in law, but also taught me important life lessons. And then doing my LLM at NYU, passing the bar and transitioning into the US legal market. I thought that being a Latino was kind of a handicap or a difficulty in the American market. But when I discovered Reed Smith and found it as a place where I could leverage my civil law background, but also my common law knowledge and my diverse Latina background and everything that I have learned before coming to Reed Smith, I thought it was the right place, especially in the Latin American business team. So that's kind of the story of why I am here today.  Bareeq: That's so interesting, Isabella. Thank you so much for sharing. I love to hear about how you thought it would be maybe something of a hindrance, but actually your Latin identity ended up being something of a strength for you. That's great. And let's go to Kathy. What about you? How did you find your way to read Smith?  Kathy: So my career started right after I graduated from John Jay College. I always found law to be so fascinating, but my original career path was to join the NYPD. While I was in the process of going through the program, my path took a very fascinating turn when I was introduced to the world of law firms, and I was given the opportunity to work at Holland & Knight as a paralegal in the aircraft finance group. I found the work to be interesting, and I knew that that was going to be the kind of work that was like a great fit for me. And I then joined Watson Farley as a corporate and shipping finance paralegal. And I built a really great connections there. So all those experiences ultimately led me to the transportation group here at Reed Smith, when they were just starting to expand the transportation group in the New York office. And there was a great need for a paralegal support. So that's how I got my start here at Reed Smith.  Bareeq: I love that insight, Kathy. Thank you so much for sharing. And Danny, what about you? Did you have similar experiences or was your path different?  Daniel: I guess there's two different points here. The first, the path to law. And the second one is to Reed Smith, which I think deserves a little bit of separation. For law, my mom worked for United Blood Services her entire career, which is now called Vitalant. It's one of the biggest nonprofit blood banks in the country. She was the regional president for that company. That company supplies blood to hospitals and helps get donations. Blood donations throughout the communities and make sure that there's blood on the shelves so we don't have to scramble to try to get blood in a case of emergency, say of a car accident or something else, which is the case in several countries. In several countries, if your uncle or your parent or somebody is hurt or needs blood, you literally have to call siblings and family members to donate blood. Here in the U.S., we have great companies like Vitalant who make sure that there's blood on the shelves in case of these emergencies. So growing up, I would see how much my mom benefited from helping the community out. But more importantly, I would see her company being sued for something very trivial, like say you got a bruise when you're donating or say something else, right? And as a child, it made me very angry and I wanted to defend them. So as a child, I said, I want to be a lawyer for these companies that are helping our communities. And now full circle Vitalant is a client of mine and I was able to assist them in a dispute in Texas. It was really incredible to see that full circle as a child and now being able to help by talent, which was my dream. To Reed Smith, I think, is even is another more. It goes back to Reed Smith's values and their dedication and attention to diversity. When I was going through law school application or law firm applications in law school, I looked for firms that really had a focus in diversity initiatives, who put their money where their mouth is. And it wasn't just lip service. And Reed Smith did that. And when I was in law school, I applied for a diversity scholarship through Reed Smith, and I was very fortunate to get it. And Reed Smith not only gave me a position through the diversity scholarship, but paid for my 3L in law school, which was amazing given that I was working during law school. So it was through Reed Smith's diversity initiatives that actually got me in the door at Reed Smith and what's kept me here so many years.  Bareeq: That's fantastic and incredibly inspiring. I love those full circle moments that you're having. So thank you all for sharing your experiences. It's clear that each of you has had a unique path that led you to Reed Smith. Now I'd love to hear a bit more about your career journeys. Was there a key moment or decision in your career that shaped where you are today? Feel free to share any specific challenges or obstacles you've overcome in your time. And Danny, I'm actually going to start with you and go the other way around.  Daniel: Absolutely. I think one of the obstacles I had is I wanted to do international law, but my profile was very Texas-specific. I went to undergrad and law school in Texas. So I wanted to have a more diverse international profile. So what I did in law school was I applied and worked at a law firm in Bogota, Colombia. And that experience exposed me to how work is done in Latin America, working in the Spanish language. And it just kind of opened up the door to everything I do now, which is Latin American arbitration disputes and work in Latin America. So I think that was probably my biggest obstacle to overcome was to how do I create a more international profile? And yeah, I guess that's what I've overcome.  Bareeq: I love that. Thank you so much. Isabella, what about you?  Isabella: I can't think of a specific moment that really challenged me, but I guess my answer to this would be being constantly exposed to situations that I am really scared of and doing it anyways. I remember during law school, I was the youngest participant of the ELSA Moot Court competition, which was basically a cross-border litigation moot court. And I was really scared everyone was very senior, about to start their jobs at really big law firms. But I did it anyways. And it really shaped my career and who I know and my network today. And then after that, just going into the LLM and not being scared of taking the hardest classes and speaking with my accent in these very difficult situations. And constantly being exposed of being criticized or having it wrong the first time but then doing it anyways because I know I'll get it somehow, I think it has shaped my career and put me where I am today. Just the fact that I applied to Reed Smith with a lot of doubts and fears and that I got over that fear and being accepted into this great firm has been just an example of how being exposed to those fears always gets me to good places.  Bareeq: Thank you so much for sharing that. And, you know, it's interesting. It's a vulnerable thing to share, but we've actually talked about it in other podcasts where, you know, when you have an accent or something that identifies you as someone that might not be from here and how that might come with some unconscious bias on other people's parts. But I love the idea of you did it and you scared anyway, which is a quote I always live by as well. So I love that level of vulnerability to share and overcome that. So thank you.  Isabella: Thank you.  Bareeq: And Kathy?  Kathy: So overcoming specific challenges, I think that being a Latina, a minority woman, for me, particularly in the maritime industry, has been challenging because it's very much a male-dominated industry. I have to say what has helped me overcome those challenges has been having great mentors, having great supporters who truly value the work and dedication and who encourage your growth in your career. So I think those have been the things that have helped me during my challenges.  Bareeq: Absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing. So hearing about these pivotal moments is really insightful, especially for our listeners. And I think it gives great insight to the people that they work alongside. And now I'd love to explore how your Latin / Latinx identity has shaped your experiences in the workplace. So I'm going to start with you, Kathy. How has your Latin / Latinx identity influenced your professional experiences? And can you talk about how it has impacted your work at Reed Smith?  Kathy: Sure. My Latinidad has inspired me. I have to say that in our culture, we tend to be resilient and warm people, and those are very powerful traits. I love that in our culture, we blend strength and passion, and facing challenges head on and coming out stronger always speaks volumes. My experiences taught me to be adaptable, especially in the law firm industry. You have to be resourceful, always turning challenges into opportunities. And that's what I've seen me doing here. And I've been given the opportunity here at Reed Smith. So, you know, you grow and you innovate.  Bareeq: I love that. I always think of the word grit. Like, I feel like if you overcome some challenges along the way, you develop this sense of resilience and grit where things don't phase you as much as they once did. As Isabella was talking about some of the challenges as well, you kind of develop this strength over time as well. I love that. And Danny, over to you next.  Daniel: So I think how my Latinx or Latin identity influenced my professional experiences has been through being able to work in the Spanish language and having an understanding of the Spanish culture, or I guess cultures in language speaking countries. I would say that it's impacted my work at Reed Smith because I have developed, I guess I would say that I've always wanted to use my Hispanic heritage as a value add, not just a checkbox or anything like that. I wanted it to be how can I improve? How can I provide value at Reed Smith? How can I provide value to our clients having Hispanic background, being able to speak Spanish. And how that's developed, I would say, is being able to develop business in Latin America, being able to work on cases where there may be Spanish aspects or Spanish or cultures from Latin America. I think it's been a value add in that sense. Every time, at least in my younger years, or my first years at Reed Smith, I was one of few that even spoke Spanish. So it was very, very great for internal business development to be able to get every single case that came in that had some sort of Spanish aspect to it or was in Latin America. And now Reed Smith has done a great job of recruiting great people like Isabella and other Spanish speaking lawyers that are that now we have that value add across the board and various offices. So that's how I would say it's influenced my professional experiences.  Bareeq: I love that. Thank you so much, Danny. And Isabella, what about you?  Isabella: I think I totally agree with Danny on this. I think the more I own my Latin background, the more I take advantage of it. Definitely working at Reed Smith and understanding the Latin American business interactions, the political complexities of the countries, how the judiciary systems work within Latin America has definitely helped on the work we do a Reed Smith and really having this global perspective and approach to the cases has been great. And I'm constantly looking for the opportunities to leverage this knowledge because it's not only about the legal knowledge, which is, of course, crucial, but it's also about understanding the complexities of these Latin American countries, which are way different from what we're used to here in the U.S. And I think it's beautiful to connect both legal systems and, of course, cultures.  Bareeq: Absolutely. And so many people you probably interact with, whether it's at networking functions or different clients, prospective clients, I'm sure that comes into play. And like Danny said, I love the value add. You didn't want it to be just a checkbox. It was something that added value. Thank you so much, all of you, for sharing those personal reflections. And now I'm going to shift to your involvement with UNIDOS. So how has being a part of the UNIDOS community supported you in your journey at Reed Smith? And why do you think groups like this are so important? I'm going to start with you, Isabella.  Isabella: I think it has been great to be part of UNIDOS because it has created this sense of community and being part in a deeper level with like a Latino group within the firm. I think from the moment I started at Reed Smith, I was welcomed by the UNIDOS community. I felt other people with accents and we could share different stories about the Latino American community. So I think it has been great to have this sense of belonging even more to the firm just through UNIDOS. I think the initiatives have been great. I remember in the Houston office, we've always had, and also thanks to Danny, amazing events with tacos and chismecitos and these great initiatives that just expose, of course, the Latin American culture in a great sense, but also make you, as I said at the beginning of this intervention, feeling that you belong into the Reed Smith Latino community.  Bareeq: I love that. What about you, Kathy? How has your time at UNIDOS been?  Kathy: I have to say, like Isabella, it's been a great experience. Joining UNIDOS has provided an invaluable support through shared experiences, building a network, a space where you can meet people that think like you, that share similar backgrounds. And really, I think inclusion groups like UNIDOS are very important because they promote diversity. They offer mentorship. They create an inclusive environment where everybody can thrive. And they also help amplify voices and drive positive change within the firm. So it's been really a great experience.  Bareeq: I love that, especially when you talked about driving positive change and Isabella talking about feeling a sense of belonging and feeling seen. Wonderful. What about you, Danny?  Daniel: Yeah, I think I think I'd have to echo everything that was already said. I think the biggest thing that UNIDOS has done for me is just, you know, there it's a very like a collaborative firm, but it's a firm that has your back. And in big, huge corporations and big firms like this, you can feel maybe isolated if you don't have people that look like you or identify like you and have your similar backgrounds. And having these business inclusion groups helps you not only, like, say you're in an office that only has one Hispanic or Latino / Latinx person in the office. Well, you can still collaborate with someone that's in New Jersey or in Chicago. So it makes Reed Smith really be able to use their global platform and make it smaller as far as like being able to meet with other people. Now, I have cases with UNIDOS folks in different offices that have brought me onto their teams, even though I'm not in their office, just having that experience with UNIDOS. And I think another big part of UNIDOS that I've liked is having someone to be kind of a cheerleader for you when it comes to promotions, when it comes to just engagement within the firm. UNIDOS, I feel, does a great job of highlighting all our accomplishments. You know, what have we been doing in the community? What have we been doing as lawyers? So I think it's been an amazing journey here in Reed Smith doing that.  Bareeq: Thank you for sharing, Danny. You brought up such a great point, which is making a community, you know, when you have over 3,000 members at the firm, it's hard to create that sense of community when you're scattered all over the states and over different countries. And so for need those to be able to create that for you all. And so it's so heartwarming to hear. So the importance of community within the workplace, as we talked about, is such a powerful takeaway. And as we wrap up, let's talk about offering maybe some advice to the next generation. To wrap up, what advice would you offer to younger professionals from diverse backgrounds who are considering a career in law or similar roles at a firm like Reed Smith? And I will actually start with you, Danny.  Daniel: I would say embrace your heritage. Embrace your Hispanic or other diverse background that you have and figure out how it can be of value at and make you more marketable and valuable to your team. I've pushed that since I was going through law school. I wanted to make sure that how can I provide this value add? How can I develop business that maybe wasn't there to develop because there were these obstacles of language barriers or culture barriers? So embracing your heritage, being proud of your heritage, and seeing how it can be a value add and make you more marketable.  Bareeq: I love that. Thank you. And Isabella?  Isabella: I believe that it's kind of a twofold approach. First, I would say to absorb everything you can from your mentors. And in this sense, find people that you admire both professionally and personally and learn by mimicking their best qualities. But at the same time, discover what sets you apart, what makes your style kind of unique and embrace it fully. As Danny was saying, I think that leveraging that to stand out, it's a great strategy. In my case, I used my Spanish, my understanding of the legal systems in Latin America, my approach to the clients. And I think that has helped me to still find my style because, of course, I'm a young practitioner myself, but I am learning day by day that owning that Latino heritage has been great for me.  Bareeq: Wonderful. Thank you, Isabella. And Kathy?  Kathy: I have to agree with both Danny and Isabella. Definitely embrace your heritage. And for me, I have to say, sometimes life happens and paths change. And that's perfectly fine. The important thing is here to seek out for mentors and build networks like UNIDOS, because those connections really are golden. For me, I have to say mentors have played a huge role in my life. They've been instrumental in shaping my journey. And I would also have to say to people to stay resilient, stay curious, never shy away from asking questions or even taking risks.  Bareeq: Thank you so much. That is wonderful. I think people are really going to, that's going to hit home for a lot of people. So I want to first thank you all so much for sharing your journeys with us today and for joining the podcast. Your stories are not only inspiring, but also show the value of community and support within the firm. And to our listeners, we hope you've enjoyed this episode of Inclusivity Included. Stay tuned for more conversations highlighting the diverse voices that make up Reed Smith and make us such a dynamic and inclusive place to work. Thank you for tuning in and thank you for joining and catch you next time.  Outro: Inclusivity Included is a Reed Smith production. Our producers are Ali McCardell and Shannon Ryan. You can find our podcasts on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, reedsmith.com and our social media accounts.  Disclaimer: This podcast is provided for educational purposes. It does not constitute legal advice and is not intended to establish an attorney-client relationship, nor is it intended to suggest or establish standards of care applicable to particular lawyers in any given situation. Prior results do not guarantee a similar outcome. Any views, opinions, or comments made by any external guest speaker are not to be attributed to Reed Smith LLP or its individual lawyers. All rights reserved.  Transcript is auto-generated.

Learn about the history, purpose and work of the Hispanic National Bar Association’s Health & Life Sciences section, as shared by its co-chairs, Gelvina Rodriguez Stevenson, general counsel at the Wistar Institute and Mildred Segura, litigation partner at Reed Smith. The discussion will be moderated by Anna Lozoya from Sentara Health.

In this episode, we consider how to be our authentic selves in the workplace. Joining Clare Sutton, Reed Smith’s EMEA DEI coordinator and Multicultural Network (MCN) co-chair, are three of the MCN’s esteemed members: Dashni Khimji, Saiya Guo and Arlington Todman. The team delves into shared experiences and insights on being your true self while remaining professional at work. ----more---- Transcript: Intro: Welcome to the Reed Smith podcast, Inclusivity Included, Powerful Personal Stories. In each episode of this podcast, our guests will share their personal stories, passions and challenges, past and present, all with the goal of bringing people together and learning more about others. You might be surprised by what we all have in common, inclusivity included.  Clare: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Inclusivity Included. My name is Clare Sutton, and I am DEI coordinator for EMEA. I also co-chair ReadSmith's Multicultural Network. Today we have a very special episode discussing authenticity and being your authentic self in the workplace. I'm really excited to be joined by three MCN colleagues, Dashni Khimji, an associate in our real estate group, Saiya Guo, an associate in our global corporate group, and Arlington Todman, a desktop support specialist in our IT team. So thank you to everyone for joining me today. I'd like to ask you one by one to share a little bit about yourselves and your background, starting with Dashni please.  Dashni: Hi Clare thanks for having me as always. I joined Reed Smith back in 2015 as a paralegal. I think it was in the real estate group. It feels like it was such a long time ago now and I've since actually qualified into the group. It's definitely been a bit of a journey for me and so I'm actually looking forward to having some real and raw discussions questions on authenticity.  Clare: Okay, and Arlington?  Arlington: Good morning, everyone. Morning, Clare. Thanks for having me as well. I'm in IT. I've joined Reed Smith in 2023. I love it here. I've been doing computer for 35 years, and I just like the chance to, you know, share some of my technical knowledge with the staff and the people and everyone listening.  Clare: Thank you, Arlington. And Saiya.  Saiya: Hi everybody, I'm Saiya. I'm originally from New Zealand and I joined Reed Smith around the end of ’22, start of ’23, so it's been about 18 months now.  Clare: Brilliant, thank you all for sharing. So let's get started. So we often show the more professional side of our personalities, a more polished version of ourselves. Instead of bringing our whole selves to work, we bring a different version. So Arlington, what does it mean to you to bring your true self to work?  Arlington: Well, it means to be able to, when I come to work, to speak to my colleagues as the same way I would speak to my family in a nice manner. Sometimes, you know, we get upset, but I let that, I try to let that fly. And what I do is I take the instances that I have with the team members here and the users and I actually just try to make it work and seem like it's friendly, common, and normal. As far as my original self, I try to be soft-spoken, don't get too angry, and I just let it flow.  Clare: Thank you. And Saiya?  Saiya: I think it means when you think about bringing your true self to work, it means that you're not putting on a different persona or that you don't feel like you need to be an entirely different person for work. I think you can just feel a bit more relaxed that you can feel yourself when you're at work.  Dashni: Yeah, I sort of echo that as well. So to me, bringing your true self to work, you know, it goes beyond just trying to be your best in a professional environment. It's all about staying true to who you are and openly sharing all of your strengths and that that's what makes you who you are but I think a huge part of bringing your true self to work requires a lot of self-discovery and accepting who you actually are as a person so I echo what's already been said by Saiya and Arlington so if you're not bringing your true self to work you're almost masking who you are which can lead to a lot of confusion and wasted energy so I think bringing your true self to work provides a means to really succeed. It allows you to reach your true potential and feel safe enough to really be challenged. And I guess bouncing off from that, Clare, I actually have a question for you. What do you feel are the benefits of bringing your whole self to work and why does that matter?  Clare: Oh, great question, Dashni. Thank you. So for me, there are several benefits to being your authentic self, especially in the workplace. place. And I'll just run through the top six that kind of work for me. So trust and respect. And that's like trusting the judgments and the decisions that you make, because that means others will trust and respect you in return because you're standing by your actual values and your beliefs. Integrity is another big one you know just doing the right thing um so you never have to second guess yourself then the ability to deal with problems is uh having the strength and the openness to deal with issues quickly instead of procrastinating you know i kind of find that once i start doing that i don't actually focus on what it is that i want to say or you know how i want to project myself realizing your potential is another big one so for me that's trusting yourself and doing what you know is right instead of letting others dictate what's best for you having confidence and self-esteem which means that you can trust yourself to make the right decisions when you're being genuine and doing the right thing which in turn leads on to a higher self-confidence and higher self-esteem and then lastly just having less stress. Just imagine the happiness and the self-respect you'd feel every day if you said what you meant and stay true to yourself being authentic to yourself is a lot less stressful than being someone you're not. And that kind of leads me me back to what you guys were saying previously so for me bringing my true self to work means leveraging my unique perspectives and experiences for my personal and professional growth. It's about being brave enough to be yourself and align who I am and by that I mean my personality my values and my emotions what I do my competencies and what I do well and then what I project so how I show myself to others that's very very important to me and I don't think that means that you have have to give everyone you know. Your personal details your family life you know what you do every weekend but. I do think it means that you behave in the same way as. You do at home so you don't create a different persona when you're in the office you should always be the same in the office as you are at home. So authenticity to me means being genuine and real but in the workplace we often feel like we have to hide our true selves or we tell ourselves that we need to act a certain way or say things to colleagues so that we fit in, even if it goes against how we actually do feel. So being someone that you're not is effectively telling yourself that who you really are isn't okay, which can make us feel lonely or disconnected from others.  Dashni: Yeah, just to weigh in there. I think I read recently about this concept of masking. So many people put on this mask at work, don't they? And they try and put on this persona of an acceptable character. And it's mostly to just try and fit in. and I remember during my training contract and actually you know shortly after when I qualified, I felt as though I couldn't be myself if I wanted to succeed in this legal world so this this actually took a huge toll on me where I actually became quite reserved I was constantly comparing myself to others and I felt this great deal of anxiety and actually in turn this actually halted my performance at work and it became a barrier. And it was actually a barrier that I created myself. So I think you know when it comes to being your authentic self it's all about self discovery you know that that's a huge thing we're all constantly learning and constantly working out how to unmask but when I discovered who I was and I started putting all of my energy into that instead I ended up you know bringing my true self to work and it almost felt like a great deal of relief. I became slightly more confident and more accepting of feedback and I started to really to excel in my role.  Saiya: No, I think it's true. And I think it goes to that concept of kind of the amount of energy that you would put into masking and also what Clare said about less stress. And I think unless you actually see the difference between when you're doing it and when you're not, you don't realize how much energy that you've actually put into doing it and how much that energy can be used into other things.  Arlington: And going off of what Saiya said, it's the amount of energy that you dedicate to trying to mask and pretend to be someone for everyone else, when in turn, you're not being true to yourself. You're not being authentic. And that, to me, that's difficult. But I try to do my best to be authentic in many given situations.  Clare: Have you kind of come across any situations where you were made to maybe change your natural authenticity and and how did you actually deal with that on the spot? Because sometimes something could come up and you may not actually realize that it's happened and then you walk away and suddenly think oh hold on a minute I've actually changed who I am just to be that other person. Have you ever had any kind of situations like that and what did you do to kind of get past it? How did it make you feel?  Arlington: Well, I have a technician in my office and he's actually been here 25 years. And some of the things that he instructs me about, it sort of gets under my skin because of the way he speaks to people. And whenever I have any interaction with him, I find myself just being absolutely quiet, listening to his instructions and just doing things, whatever he tells me. And I got home this weekend. And I said to myself, wow, whenever I get around him, I just automatically shut down, listen to what he says, do it. And I said, no. So when I changed, I just started listening to him, responding to him, conversing with him. And now all this week, I find myself doing everything that he had suggested that I do, even when he's not around. And I find myself in a better spot for my work that I do. And it's thanks to him a little bit. So I've learned to take his suggestions with ease as opposed to being rubbed the wrong way when he speaks to me and thereby acting a certain way instead of just being my natural self. And it's actually, like I said, it's benefited me a lot. And I have him to thank for that.  Clare: Saiya, did you have any comments?  Saiya: Yes, I think in terms of kind of situations, I suppose it's not so much a specific situation that I'm kind of thinking about. But I think it's a general tendency, right, that if you're, let's say if you're in a group and you happen to be the odd one out or everybody else in the group is, you know, just from, you know, whatever common factor there is in a certain group, I think there's a natural tendency to try to adapt, to try to fit in. And sometimes you don't realize you're doing it consciously. It's almost unconscious. But then something might jolt you out a bit and you realize, hold on, I've actually gradually and gradually just moved so far towards fitting in that I've actually lost track of actually this is not really who I am or I'm more than this aspect of my personality that I show in this group. And you realize you've kind of drifted away from what was in your whole self.  Dashni: Yeah. Yeah, and quite similar, you know, so when I was a paralegal, it's almost like you have this vision of what it's like to be a lawyer. And what you're trying to do is fit into this vision rather than bring your true self. And I think I struggled with that quite a lot, where it was like, it's such a traditional industry, isn't it, where you have to behave and act in a certain way. And that's what the clients expect. And that's almost what's expected of you in the workplace afterwards. And I think it is going back onto that whole concept of unmasking. It's about, you know, believing in who you are, your core values and trying to adjust them to the legal industry and also who the audience is. So, yeah, those are my thoughts on that.  Clare: You're also right. It's so difficult trying to navigate that and, you know, not lose your cool, I guess, but still be happy with the way that you're acting, what you're saying. It's a difficult process a difficult juggling act so i completely agree with what you've all said um so i guess what we're all saying is authenticity at work is facilitated when we share core values with our colleagues you know the more that we embrace our true self is the more our peers will do the same which can create a positive work environment. It's not morally or ethically important but it's practical strategic because it leads to better relationships increased innovation, and more robust and thriving workspaces and communities. So I'd just like to share a quote with you all from Dr. Brené Brown, who is a research professor at the University of Houston. And she states, authenticity is the daily practice of letting go of who we think we're supposed to be and embracing who we are. I believe that authenticity can mean different things to different people. But in general, it refers to the ability to live by our values speaking our truth with assertiveness and developing the courage to allow our true selves to be seen. How do you think people can foster a more authentic and inclusive environment of work? And I'll direct that one to Dashni first.  Dashni: Thanks Clare, for me I think the key lies in really knowing who you are and I you know I've echoed that elsewhere it's almost a journey of self-discovery um which isn't an easy one for anyone really. I guess you must really know who you are. You must learn your own strengths and weaknesses and work out where you actually add value. In a way, it's all about integrating your genuine self with the role that you play at work to create this harmonious and productive environment where you're really able to excel.  Clare: And Arlington, do you have any thoughts?  Arlington: Well, being my authentic self at work, again, I'm in IT. So to me, it's difficult because I don't socialize with a lot of people here at work. We just get up to deal with machines and everything else. So I guess being my authentic self, I just love being able to fix the machines and just chat whenever I can with attorneys, paralegals, and other staff members and try to be realistic as opposed to trying to be someone that I'm not.  Clare: And Saiya?  Saiya: I think it's helped to have lots of role models at work and in the workplace so that you can see that there are different ways of being your authentic self or there are different ways to practice law, to be a leader, all those different kind of things. And I think it's helpful to be able to see that and realize, no, you don't have to mold yourself in one certain way.  Dashni: And I think what I actually quite like now is how diverse most law firms are now becoming. So when you look at a law firm page, you're now seeing all of these faces, faces that look like you, which, you know, 10 to 15 years ago, you didn't usually see. So I kind of echo the role model concept. I think it really helps.  Clare: Yeah, I think business inclusion groups can be very important as well to help you be more authentic. You know, especially if you've got one that, as we all know, if you offer food, everyone's happy. Everyone gets involved.  Dashni: Was that aimed at me?  Clare: Ah slightly you know everyone has fun and it allows you to be more open and honest with the people around you which you know then in turn you know people see that when you're acting like yourself more they probably get to understand you a bit more because you're more open to speaking you know about your backgrounds even down to the foods you eat, your kind of cultures and your traditions and things like that so yeah I agree with all of you with what you're saying there. So while it's important to be authentic at work, some organizations do have different cultures when it comes to how much personal expression is encouraged or accepted at work. Some companies may ask for a formal and reserved atmosphere, whereas others encourage employees to bring their whole selves to work. For me, balancing authenticity and professionalism at work is important. No matter what your culture, I do think we should maintain professionalism, respect the company's policies and align our actions with job responsibilities. Authenticity should be exercised with discretion respecting personal and professional boundaries and being mindful of our colleagues privacy but I do think that showing up totally unfiltered could go down downhill very quickly but also if you hide your true self you might miss out on fostering the kind of relationships that can fulfill your life and your career so how much of ourselves do you think we should really bring?  Arlington: I believe we should at least bring 75% of our whole selves. I believe if we come with less than 75%, we're only giving a percentage of what our job is, what our roles are, what our colleagues are. And then we're just not being who we are or true to ourselves. And again, I usually have a lot to say, but it comes out more in written form. I don't speak as much. That's another thing here. So I'll leave it at that.  Clare: Arlington that's great because you're being your authentic self and that's all we can ask for. Dashni do you have any thoughts on that?  Dashni: I think I do echo what you said you know we're in a professional environment you're you're acting for clients and I think while it's important to sort of foster that and bring out your true self you have to sort of maintain some professional boundaries because I think it's quite a new concept isn't it? And it's quite revolutionary in that sense.  Clare: Saiya?  Saiya: I think the true self, it doesn't have to be a static kind of thing. You can be your true self in different environments. Just because you need to be professional at work doesn't mean that you can't be your true self. I think there's different ways of expressing it. And I think it's about having the freedom or feeling that you have the flexibility to be your own version of what professionalism means within certain boundaries, within certain requirements. I think that it's just the fact that it's not one static fixed very rigid idea of what you need to be at work what you need to be in any certain environment.  Clare: Brilliant thank you and so I'll ask you all what can we do to bring our whole self to work as as a firm as a collective. What do you think we could do to show ourselves more who we are without I guess you know kind of stepping on boundaries?  Dashni: I guess i've sort of echoed it again throughout and that's that's you know to sort of enjoy this this whole self-discovery journey and you know start embracing journaling and start really enjoying to work out who your true self is and i think once you do that um you will start bringing your true self to work.  Arlington: And just be more relaxed around others and and just let's have everyone enjoy our life. Just like Siaya said, it doesn't have to be in one specific dimension. It could just be overall. We could laugh and joke, yet have to maintain a level of professionalism.  Saiya: Maybe some of it comes down to your mindset as well, or it's internally giving yourself permission to bring your whole self to work or your true self to work and just trying that and just seeing what that's like.  Clare: It's just taking, you know, one small step at a time towards a bit of change. I like that idea about mindset. It's very difficult to, you know, keep inside yourself how much. I mean, like for myself, sometimes I struggle. I can give you an example, actually. So I've been in the new office and sitting with a new team now. I'm sitting with people that have never actually worked with me before. So they don't actually know who I am apart from who I normally project. Whereas now they see me more often. So, you know, my personality comes out. I probably laugh a lot more. I can be very loud sometimes when I get very excitable. I've said some really silly things that make me giggle and I've had some very funny looks with my team now so they never knew that about me before but I feel comfortable enough now that I'm in a space where I can do that I'm not going to be judged and and people will laugh along with me. So like on the back of that do you have any tips to be more authentic in the office? Can you think of any way that we can tell our listeners you know how to just not be frightened and to be brave?  Dashni: I guess it's more about recognizing when you're not being real. So stop telling yourselves how we should behave at work and, you know, just start opening up a little.  Saiya: I think it would be just along the lines of what everybody else has similarly said. You know, just kind of being open, giving a go, being brave about being your true self.  Arlington: I have to agree as well. You know, just relax, enjoy yourself and just take things as they come.  Clare: I love that. I love your honesty, all of you. For me, I guess the tips I would give are, they echo, basically. So, you know, working out who your true self is, you know, who you are, who you stand for, what you truly want out of your work life, and reconnecting with what's really important, you know, to ourselves, i.e. our values, our strengths, and our unique value. And recognizing, as Dashni said, when you're not being real, take small steps to open up. I think most importantly is setting clear boundaries, because your values always give clues as to what's important. So we should do what we can to protect those for ourselves, because if we allow behaviors that we deem to be unacceptable to go unchecked, then we're probably giving off a signal to others that their actions are okay. But by calmly and explaining how actions make us feel clarifies what your boundaries are whilst being true to your authentic self. And I think pushing for a broader cultural change because when we feel empowered to share our true selves and opinions at work with no fear of reprimand a culture of psychological safety then occurs and it just means that we all feel happy to open up and just be true. And finally this is to all three of you you've achieved so much in your careers so if you could what piece piece of advice would you give your younger self now that you have further awareness of what authenticity means to you?  Dashni: Yeah I guess I'd probably tell her to stop being afraid that she is good enough and to accept the help like it's okay to accept help sometimes and advice from your mentor's.  Saiya: I would say just relax a lot more. I think we don't realize how many thoughts go into our head about this is what we should do or what we should be. And a lot of those actually don't turn out to be relevant in the long run.  Arlington: I have to agree with both of them. But I would also say just take things as they come, challenge them, accept them, and don't try to push away or hide away from certain situations. Let them come. And just like Saiya said, a lot of those instances that we think about really don't happen and they really take no part anyway. They just take up room in our mentality. That's it.  Clare: Yeah, I kind of agree with you that it takes up a lot of space in the mind and creates a lot of worry and anxiety, which, as you say, probably isn't even there. Usually by the time you've said something to someone, you know, everything's dissipated. You can get on with life again and, you know, everyone's happy and it's all great. I completely agree with everything you've all said. So thank you all so much. It's been an absolute pleasure speaking with you all today. And thank you again, just for being so honest and truthful with your answers. Thank you, Dashni, Saiya and Arlington for sharing your insights and thoughts with us today. And thank you to our listeners for tuning into our Inclusivity Included podcast. Until the next time, enjoy the rest of your day.  Outro: Inclusivity Included is a Reed Smith production. Our producers are Ali McCardell and Shannon Ryan. You can find our podcasts on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, reedsmith.com, and our social media accounts.  Disclaimer: This podcast is provided for educational purposes. It does not constitute legal advice and is not intended to establish an attorney-client relationship, nor is it intended to suggest or establish standards of care applicable to particular lawyers in any given situation. Prior results do not guarantee a similar outcome. Any views, opinions, or comments made by any external guest speaker are not to be attributed to Reed Smith LLP or its individual lawyers.   All rights reserved.  Transcript is auto-generated.

Reed Smith partner Simone Goligorsky and her father, Yuri Goligorsky, join Reed Smith’s Jewish Inclusion Committee co-chairs Carolyn Rosenberg and Jason Gordon to discuss Yuri’s inspiring story of resilience. Yuri recounts his incredible journey from being born in the harsh conditions of Siberia, escaping to Israel and eventually establishing a remarkable career at the BBC in London.

In the final episode of our dedicated SAHM podcast miniseries, Gautam Bhattacharyya hosts Reed Smith partners Nav Sahota, Nathan Menon and Sakil Suleman for a conversation on identity and the power of cultural roots in shaping careers. The partners reflect on their South Asian heritage and the significance of South Asian Heritage Month 2024, and offer heartfelt advice to their younger selves and aspiring lawyers.  

Nity Raj, General Counsel and a Director of Brentford Football Club, joins Gautam Bhattacharyya to discuss South Asian Heritage Month. They delve into Nity's career influences, his role at Brentford FC  (the Bees), the significance of his South Asian heritage, and the collective steps needed to advance DEI and increase South Asian participation in the highest levels of football and sports.

In the first episode of our miniseries of podcasts celebrating South Asian Heritage Month 2024, Gautam Bhattacharyya, chair of Reed Smith’s India Business team, welcomes Yasmin Batliwala MBE, CEO of Advocates for International Development. Together, they explore Yasmin's career path, her mentors and inspirations, her passion for pro bono work and the significance of her Parsi heritage. ----more---- Transcript: Intro: Welcome to the Reed Smith Podcast, Inclusivity Included: Powerful Personal Stories. In each episode of this podcast,  our guests will share their personal stories, passions, and challenges, past and present, all with the goal of bringing people together and learning more about others.  You might be surprised by what we all have in common, inclusivity included.   Gautam: Hello everyone and welcome to another of our Reed Smith podcasts and this one is part of our special mini-series to celebrate and mark South Asian Heritage Month 2024 and I'm overjoyed to have as our podcast today the incredibly impressive Yasmin Batliwala. Hello Yasmin.  Yasmin: Hello Gautam, lovely to be here.  Gautam: It's lovely to have you and I've been really so excited to do this podcast with you. For our listeners, I'm going to introduce Yasmin so you can appreciate just what an amazing person she is. Yasmin is the chief executive of Advocates for International Development, a very prominent pro bono and CSR institution with which Reed Smith has had a very long and happy relationship and association. And we continue to do so. And I've known Yasmin for many, many years. and we've had many a discussion about our shared passion for pro bono work and the importance of lawyers doing pro bono work and the impact that it has. Yasmin is responsible for overseeing the work of A4ID, as I'll call it, and she's held many prominent roles in the public and third sector over her very illustrious career. Apart from pro bono work, her portfolios have included some incredible causes. Those include HIV and AIDS, drug alcohol, dependency, and criminal justice. She has also undertaken work for the UN's Office of Drugs and Crime, and has a great deal of board experience too, having, amongst other things, been on the board of a large NHS trust. Yasmin also, to the extent she has spare time, and I'm stunned she does have spare time, has also served as a magistrate in the Youth and Adult Courts. She's also, as you can imagine, been the recipient of several honors. And amongst those, and there are many of them, she has been awarded the City of London Woman of Achievement for her public service work. And in 2022, Yasmin received an MBE for her work in human rights, the rule of law and international development as part of the Queen's New Year's honors list. So it really is a wonderful privilege to be speaking to you on this podcast, Yasmin, and I'm really looking forward to our discussions. Now, let me start with this as we get into our discussion. Tell us a little bit about your career background. I've already highlighted for our listeners a few of the roles that you've undertaken prior to your current role as chief executive of A4ID. But I wonder whether you could give us a little bit of a background about how you got to your role at A4ID and your career background, which has led up to that.  Yasmin: Thank you very much, Gautam. I'd like to start then by thanking you for inviting me to join in this podcast and for the opportunity to talk about the work of Advocates for International Development, which I know that you know that I'm truly passionate about. So to answer your question about what I was doing prior to A4ID work-wise, before joining A4ID, basically I ran my own consultancy, providing senior level support to the public and non-profit sectors. My work primarily involved problem solving, managing teams, assisting the recruitment of CEOs and other executive positions. And I should say that I thoroughly enjoyed being self-employed as it allowed me to spend quality time with my two young daughters as they were then. And I could work during their nursery hours and resume tasks when they were asleep. And incidentally, I even earned more money than I've ever done since while I was working for myself. Throughout my career, I think you've said, I have worked mainly in the public and non-profit sector. And you've indicated the background work I've done within the drugs field and also in HIV. And I've also served, as you've mentioned, on various boards, including also a university, as well as on police authority, where I briefly held position of chair. I currently chair VIA, formerly known as WDP, which is a leading charity providing drug and alcohol services across the UK. VIA is known for its quality of services and innovative approach. And I like to think that my leadership has played a role in its success. Now, in respect to other things that have brought me to A4ID, I was invited to get involved with A4ID just by chance. Someone suggested that I met the executive director at the time. She and I got on swimmingly and as a consequence of that I started to work with her to look at how we could build the organization so that's really a potted summary of my career to date.  Gautam: Well thank you and it really is I mean you know you've packed a lot in in your wonderful career today and undertaking some amazing work for lots of really important causes and you know I think I think one of the things I just want to step back to is you've had a very impressive career. Of that, there's no doubt. And it's ongoing, right? You're not finished yet. Not by a long way. But we all benefit from mentors and inspirations in the course of our career. And I wonder whether you could share with our listeners some of your biggest career mentors and inspirations so far.  Yasmin: Gautam, I think that's a really difficult question because I have been inspired by so many people over the years. Obviously, those who have supported and encouraged me stand out, ranging from my line managers and peers to various teams that I've worked with, including actually my current team. Indeed, my very first job was doing what was called action research on illicit drug use in SW5, which is Earls Court, and also the West End. Professor Betsy Ettore was my line manager at the time, and she was simply amazing. She encouraged me to think for myself and was always available when I needed her. I was at the time fresh out of university and yet she treated me like an equal and I valued that because she actually listened very carefully to what I had to say and supported my ambition for the study that we were doing. Now coming back to where I am today I suppose I especially want to mention the board of A4ID. Their support has been incredible but it's their pioneering spirit and belief that everything is possible that truly inspires me. They also believe in me personally which has been invaluable and enabled me to push forward with our vision. Roger Leese, the chair of A4ID and a partner at Clifford Chance, has perhaps been a significant inspiration throughout our time working together. We've often solved problems by approaching them from completely different perspectives, and his insights have always been spot on. Indeed, the longer I have known him, the more I've come to respect him. To me, integrity and respect are very important in those that have inspired me. And perhaps the reason I've been working in this role for so long has been mainly because of the individuals that I have been fortunate to come across over the years. Now, I've been particularly impressed by the legal profession's can-do culture and their attitude that everything and anything is possible, which happens also to be my perspective in life. This approach and their understated passion is something I greatly admire. The entire legal pro bono community, from international law firms that we work with, to in-house counsel, the judiciary, paralegals and barristers, demonstrate to me their remarkable dedication. They use their skills and intellect to contribute to the greater good, often without expecting recognition or even a pat on the back. Let me give you an example close to home. Now, you've mentioned just in your start the involvement of Reed Smith. So when I joined A4ID, Reed Smith provided us with the accommodation. At that time, A4ID was a much smaller organization with fewer staff and a smaller turnover. Right. Without Reed Smith's support, I'm not sure A4ID would have thrived. Reed Smith even contributed their staff's time to oversee the development of A4ID at the beginning, not seeking thanks or recognition, just doing what they could to help the cause. If anything was requested from them, they would think about it and come back to us with a solution about how to make it happen. So I, for one, have immense admiration for Reed Smith and the support that the firm has provided ever since our inception in 2006. Many of our law firms have also, as well as corporate partners, have also shown and continue to show some support over the years. They've supported A4ID in its journey and through us have provided expert pro bono legal advice to international development sector and have also donated funds to enable us to exist and to function. And I firmly believe that through the law, we can change the world for the greater good and that lawyers have a key role to play in making this happen. Imagine no other profession is able to achieve this, only the legal profession. What inspiration is that? So to answer your question, I would say I've been most inspired by the legal sector with which I've been fortunate to work with and why I'm still in this role after all these many years.  Gautam: Well, thank you, Yasmin. That was an incredibly impressive set of points. And I just wonder if I could dig into that a little bit. Extremely, there's a lot I could unpack there. But let me focus on what makes pro bono work so important. Now, we all know it's really important. It has real impact. And lawyers are integral to that. And so I wonder whether you could give us your thoughts on just why pro bono work is so important and why law firms and the teamwork that they achieve is so important to make that happen. You mentioned in your answer just now just how unique in many ways the legal profession is to be able to deliver those sorts of services and results. And I certainly know how enriching it's been for me personally to be heavily involved in pro bono work for so many years. But I wonder whether you could share your thoughts on that, please.  Yasmin: Thanks, Gautam. I would say that pro bono work is vital because it allows professionals and the corporates to give back to the community, promoting social justice and addressing systemic inequalities. qualities. By providing free legal services to those who cannot afford them, pro bono work ensures that access to justice is not limited by financial means. This contribution really helps to level the playing field, ensuring that vulnerable and marginalized communities and individuals can defend their rights and receive fair treatment under the law. If you look at CSR for law firms, on the other hand, I think it encompasses a broader range of activities beyond pro bono work, which includes ethical business practices, environmental sustainability and community engagement. Pro Bono also, I would say, demonstrates the company's commitment to operating responsibly and contributing positively to society. These initiatives enhance the company's reputation, build trust with stakeholders, and also we find continually that it can lead to increased employee satisfaction and retention. Through pro bono, law firms and corporates can address various social issues from poverty and education to health and environmental protection. The other thing I think that's really important with regard to pro bono, is teamwork that law firms can do. Teamwork is essential in making pro bono successful because it allows the pooling of resources, expertise and networks. Law firms possess specialized legal knowledge and skills and are crucial for tackling complex legal issues. By collaborating, firms can leverage their collective expertise to provide a comprehensive and effective legal assistance. I think this collaborative approach really does ensure that beneficiaries receive high quality support, which are tailored to their specific needs. Also, teamwork among law firms fosters a culture of shared responsibility and mutual support. And we find that when law firms work together with us on pro bono projects, they can share best practices, learn from each other's experiences, and really develop innovative solutions to very common challenges. This collective effort amplifies the impact of their work, making it possible to address larger and more complex issues than any single firm could or tackle alone. It also, I suppose, fosters a sense of solidarity and purpose within the legal community as a whole. So collaboration enhances the reach and scalability of pro bono. By joining forces, and certainly by joining forces with us, law firms can extend their service to a broader range of beneficiaries and communities. This expanded reach is particularly important in addressing systemic issues that require coordinated efforts across different jurisdictions and different sectors which apply to us at A4ID. Collaborative initiatives can mobilize more resources including funding, personnel, technological tools to support large-scale projects and long-term interventions. In fact, teamwork with law firms also provide opportunities for professional development and capacity building. We find and I find continually that lawyers engaged in pro bono work gain valuable experience and skills to enhance their professional growth. Put simply pro bono work makes you a better lawyer. The reason is obvious through A4ID lawyers are exposed to diverse legal issues and client populations broadening their perspective and very much enriching their practices. Additionally, firms that actively participate in these initiatives can attract and retain talent by demonstrating their commitment to social justice as well as ethical practices. And as I've said already, co-ordinated efforts in pro bono can lead to systemic change by addressing root causes of social issues and advocating for policy reforms, law firms can help to create a more equitable and just society. Collaborative projects that people do with A4ID often involve strategic litigation, legislative advocacy and public education concerns, campaigns that go beyond individual cases to affect broader societal change. This strategic approach maximizes the long-term impact of pro bono. So effective teamwork also ensures that pro bono is sustainable. And by sharing the workload and resources, firms can maintain those long-term communities to these projects. Sustainability, after all, is crucial for achieving lasting impact and ensuring that the beneficiaries receive continuous support. Collaborative efforts help distribute the responsibilities and costs which are associated with these initiatives, making it much easier for firms to sustain their involvement over time. So to conclude, pro bono work is essential promoting social justice, corporate responsibility. Teamwork with law firms is crucial for maximizing the effectiveness and reach and sustainability of these initiatives. And through collaboration, law firms can leverage their collective expertise, resources and networks works to make a significant positive impact on society and advance the cause of justice for all. So in a nutshell, that's what makes pro bono so incredibly important.  Gautam: Thank you, Yasmin. And you know, everything you said there, I was just absorbing and just realizing just how it all aligns with exactly how I see it. Because I can honestly tell you, Yasmin that us and you know we've had many a conversation about what pro bono means to each of us but i know that some of my most satisfying outcomes that i've achieved as a lawyer for clients for for pro bono clients have come from that sort of work it's it's not just about doing big cases as we do and as i as i do for big corporate companies a big industrial groups for governments, etc, etc. That's, of course, very important to the life of a law firm. But a law firm needs to be known for everything it brings. And I can honestly say, and I can't talk about some of these cases, but some of the most important cases I've done have involved taking on the establishment. Establishment for people who would otherwise not have access to law firms what I call big law big law firms and those law firms come together in teams like you say often in conjunction with other law firms and there are a number of examples where Reed Smith has teamed up with other law firms and it's a wonderful thing because the perception is otherwise that law firms are all competitors. They're like boxers in a boxing ring. But we're not actually. That's really a myth. We operate in a marketplace, yes, but on pro bono work, we actually come together in a very productive way. And so, no, thank you for sharing those really, really, really amazing thoughts, because I'm sure our listeners, it'll really resonate with our listeners. So thank you for that, Yasmin. I wonder whether I could just now turn to the question of heritage, because heritage is obviously a very important thing. And this podcast is being recorded and will be published as part of South Asian Heritage Month. And I wonder whether you could just share with us a little bit about what makes your heritage so empowering and so important and uplifting for you.  Yasmin: Well, Gautam, as you know, I'm a Parsi. Parsis originated from ancient Persia and fled to India, I think around the 6th, 7th century to escape religious persecution. Their successful integration and preservation of our culture and religious identity in a foreign land. For me, I think exemplify the resilience and adaptability of the community of Parsis. The religion of the Parsi community is Zoroastrianism, which places its values of saying good thoughts, good words and good deeds and doing good deeds. This provides very much of a strong moral and ethical foundation, promoting a positive and proactive approach to life and encouraging meaningful contributions to society. And despite being a small community, and I do mean small, as a number of Parsis are reducing year on year to the point of extinction, I should say, Parsis have made significant contributions in various fields such as business, science, arts and philanthropy. Indeed, social responsibility and generosity of spirit are highly encouraged within the community. So I suppose my heritage is empowering and uplifting because it connects me to a rich and a diverse cultural tapestry that informs my identity and sense of self. This connection to my roots provides me with a deep understanding of where I come from and the traditions that have shaped my community over generations. The stories, the customs and values that have been passed down to me are a source of pride and strength, offering a foundation upon which I can build my own life and my own aspirations. Considerations this cultural inheritance if you like acts as my guiding light influencing my values behaviors and perspectives cultural heritage has also paid i think a significant role in shaping my world view and moral compass the values and ethics inherited from my cultural background guide me guide my actions and decisions promoting principles such as respect as i've have mentioned before, integrity, but also responsibility. These values are not just abstract concepts. They are lived experiences demonstrated by my family members and the community. This moral grounding is empowering as it provides clear guidelines on how to navigate life's complexities and make meaningful contributions to society. And as I've mentioned, My commitment can only be demonstrated by my contribution to the various public sector boards and roles that I've had within the community in which I live. So that's very, for me, a very important part of being a Parsi and a member of a community that will disappear, I suspect, in the not too distant future.  Gautam: Yeah, no, thank you, Yasmin. I am indeed very familiar with the Parsi history. And indeed, many of my best friends in the law are Parsis. And if I just take one jurisdiction, for example, in India, right, which you, of course, know very well, there are many prominent Parsi lawyers. And there have been. One of my greatest mentors was Fali Nariman, who was India's most celebrated lawyer, who unfortunately passed away in February of this year. But many, many prominent lawyers in India are Parsis. And many of the big industrial houses, as you know, in India, are Parsi in origin and remain Parsi in management and in all that they do. And those concepts of doing business fairly and being philanthropic, like very heart of Parsi culture. So it's very interesting. And I recall also, I grew up, Yasmin, in Northwest London. And very near where I went to school, there was an old cinema that stopped showing films. And it was taken over by the Parsi community. And it became a Zoroastrian center of worship. And this goes back to my much younger days. So I'm very familiar with that. And it's very interesting how it continues to inform you and inspire you, because it should do. And I also, I'm also very familiar with the fact that the Parsi community is getting smaller. As people marry outside of the Parsi faith, that inevitably has an impact. But the pride and the history of the Parsis is so rich. And, you know, it'll always be everlasting. So, and there's a long way yet to go. So, no, thank you for that. That's really, really nice to know. And, you know, just one last question on that before we turn to the last topic. What, in terms of looking at the examples of what the Parsi tradition and faith and heritage has taught you, one of the things that I'm always very mindful of is that the pro bono tradition, as I call it, is very well developed in certain jurisdictions. Jurisdictions but it's yet to develop fully in some jurisdictions now one of the countries where it is gathering pace is certainly India but just look at the size of that country and the legal community there i mean just briefly what you know what are your thoughts about what we could do to try to expand the pro bono tradition in a wonderful jurisdiction like India,  Yasmin: Actually, I think there's an awful lot that can be done. There's certainly an interest. We have been working in India and in fact have an entity called the A4ID Foundation, which is wholly Indian. We've been working alongside some amazing lawyers. In fact, part of the board comprises of some absolutely amazing Indian lawyers who are working with us to develop this. So we are bringing the culture to the pro bono culture that already exists, actually, within India and within the Indian community. But it's about using their legal brains that we're starting to to encourage. And that's happening, happening slowly, but it is happening. And with the vast number of lawyers in India, just think what we could do. Amazing. The other thing I wanted to just mention in terms of what you said was this week I received a gift from one of my team, members of my team. He's actually based in India. And the gift was a signed copy of the constitution, Indian constitution by Nariman.  Gautam: Oh, wow. Yeah. It's a wonderful book. Yes. And so I've been dipping since he sent it to me. I've been dipping in it. It's quite a quite a tomb. And I actually thought when I saw it, oh, my God, am I going to be able to read this? Because, you know, it's quite an interesting but quite a how can I put it, a dry topic.  Gautam: Yeah.  Yasmin: But having looked at it and read through it, it's actually brilliantly easy to read. He simplifies things because he knows the subject area so well that it's so easy to read. And I would thoroughly recommend if you have the opportunity to do so. And that includes your the people listening to this. I would thoroughly recommend it. It's a fantastic read.  Gautam: I agree. And, you know, the whole concept of the constitution is so important because it comes down to fundamental principles of fairness and doing things in an orderly way, in a proper way, and upholding that separation of power and not enabling things to just become merged as one. And that independence of thought is very very important now that's well i i think you're very fortunate to have a signed copy of that of that tome um i'm sure it'll be well thumbed in days and weeks to come as you read it so yes we've come almost to the end of our podcast and i've enjoyed, as i always do speaking to you i've had as i've said in the introduction i've had many a conversation with you over the years. I've always come away a much better person after each of those conversations, and this conversation has certainly been no exception to that. One of the traditions that we have in this podcast series, and I'm going to maintain that tradition even though this is a mini-series for South Asian Heritage Month, is to ask you a few more lighthearted things, to get to know the non-pro bono chief executive, Yasmin Batliwala. And so I want to ask you three very, very simple questions. Nothing mean, because I'm not a mean person, as you know, Yasmin. I want to ask you three little questions. First of all, have you got a favorite sort of music?  Yasmin: So on that question, I'd say, where do I start? I like all sorts of music. I have a particular preference, I should say, for classical music. Anything, anything at all by Mozart or J.S. Bach are things that I would be listening to regularly. I also like opera. In fact, I love opera. And I'm also a fan of David Bowie, I should say. But recently, Gautam, I've discovered a new genre of music, and that's heavy metal and electronic music.  Gautam: Amazing.  Yasmin: I’ve discovered a band called Disturbed, who are amazing. So to all your listeners, I encourage you to listen to their rendition of Simon and Garfunkel's song, Sound of Silence, which is absolutely mesmerizing and haunting.  Gautam: I’m going to check it out myself.  Yasmin: So let me know what you think. I've also discovered a band called Rammstein. I think that's how you pronounce it, which is a German heavy metal group of the 1990s. And I think, I think, and I seem to be listening to them quite a lot. And finally, I've also discovered, recently discovered, Mongolian electronic throat music. And that's totally blown me away. So I've been listening to that. So in terms of my musical taste, it's slightly expanding.  Gautam: That is incredibly eclectic. And I'm going to check out the German metal band and the rendition of Sound of Silence. I'm going to check those out. And I must tell you just very briefly on the Mongolian throat music. Many years ago, I was very fortunate to do a case for the government of Mongolia. It was a litigation in the English courts. And it went all the way to the Court of Appeal here. And I'm very happy that we won in the High Court and in the Court of Appeal. And I had the very good fortune to get to Mongolia twice on that case and to the great city of Ulaanbaatar. And I got introduced to Mongolian throat music. Now, the first trip was 2002-2003, around about then. I've not heard the electronic version as yet, but I'm certainly aware of the more basic classical rendition of throat singing. And also on that trip, I also learned about the eagle dance, which is a very famous dance that they do because the eagle and horses are very revered in Mongolia. And there's a dance which the wrestlers, Mongolian wrestling is also very popular and the wrestlers before they start the bout do this thing called the eagle dance. It's, I mean, I'll tell you more about it when I see you next. Okay, just two more quick ones and then I know we'll wrap. But have you got a favorite holiday destination or place that you just love to visit?  Yasmin: I, yeah, I like it. I love Italy. I don't think I've ever been to any single place And I like to travel around and visit different places that I haven't liked. So I like Italy. I like Italy also. But not only its beauty, its architecture, but the food and the people. So it's not far too far away from the UK. And so if ever I have an opportunity, I've gone to Italy. Recently, though, I went to Sicily. And that was a real find because it's obviously, I mean, talking about cultural traditions and cultural heritage, it seems to have been basically every country has stepped foot on it and taken it over. And it's left these amazing it's the amazing footprints so we've got the Greeks we've got the Normans we've got the various Moors as well all of them make it such a very interesting place.  Gautam: Absolutely. It just shows how cultures have moved around the world. One last question. We are recording this podcast during the European Championships in football. And this is not a leading question. And I am a lawyer. So this is not a leading question. Who's going to win the European Championships? Which country?  Yasmin: I’m afraid I don't watch football. So I can't answer that question. I have been to football matches, Gautam, and I haven't known what's been going on. This was during my time at the police authority, where I went out with the police at Watford to observe how policing was done. It was a lovely day, although we got up incredibly early, I seem to recall. But I had no idea what was going on in the pitch. Um it was slightly tribal in terms of the shouting. It was Manchester and Watford Manchester not sure if it was City or United. I think it was City it had um one of the Gallagher um one of the Gallagher  Gautam: Yeah it's Man City then  Yasmin: Yeah so just to watch that whole kind of tribal way was quite fascinating so i'm afraid i can't answer your question.  Gautam: That's quite okay you um you've answered many many questions in the course of this podcast yasmin thank you very much for doing this podcast it's been a delight to do it and to speak to you and um I could literally have asked you lots more questions and spent more time but these podcasts unfortunately would go on for a very long time if we did that but thank you very much indeed and thank you particularly for doing all the wonderful work that you continue to do on the the pro bono side and the great example you set through your leadership. So thank you very much.  Yasmin: Gautam, thank you so much also for inviting me to this podcast, which I must say I've enjoyed immensely. And if anyone listening out there is interested to work together with us at A4ID, please do contact me. And who knows what we can achieve together.  Gautam: Thank you, Yasmin.  Outro: Arbitral Insights is a Reed Smith production. Our producer is Ali McCardell. For more information about Reed Smith's global international arbitration practice, email arbitralinsights@reedsmith.com. To learn about the Reed Smith Arbitration Pricing Calculator, a first-of-its-kind mobile app that forecasts the cost of arbitration around the world, search Arbitration Pricing Calculator on reedsmith.com or download for free through the Apple and Google Play app stores. You can find our podcast on Spotify, Apple, Google Play, Stitcher, reedsmith.com, and our social media accounts at Reed Smith LLP on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Twitter.  Disclaimer: This podcast is provided for educational purposes. It does not constitute legal advice and is not intended to establish an attorney-client relationship, nor is it intended to suggest or establish standards of care applicable to particular lawyers in any given situation. Prior results do not guarantee a similar outcome. Any views, opinions, or comments made by any external guest speaker are not to be attributed to Reed Smith LLP or its individual lawyers.  All rights reserved. Transcript is auto-generated.

Christian Castile, a trial attorney at Reed Smith, is joined by Reed Smith's Professional Development and Continuing Legal Education Manager, Joe Maguire, and Emily Chang, a former Reed Smith summer associate, to explore the evolution of LGBTQ+ inclusive language. This episode delves into the history and reclamation of the term "queer," examining its significance and the broader impacts of language on the LGBTQ+ community. Joe and Emily share their personal stories and insights, discussing how their experiences have shaped their understanding and use of LGBTQ+ terminology. They also touch on the intersectionality of language across different marginalized groups and the importance of person-centered language. Tune in for a thought-provoking discussion on the power of words and the journey toward inclusivity.

In honor of Asian American, Native Hawaiian, and Pacific Islander Heritage Month, we delve into the unique experiences of first-generation attorneys at BigLaw firms. Featuring a distinguished panel from Reed Smith’s PAALS (Pacific and Asian American Lawyers and Staff) business inclusion group, Bareeq Barqawi is joined by Thuy Nguyen, Rizwan 'Rizzy' Qureshi, and Julia Peng. These exceptional attorneys share their inspiring journeys, the challenges they faced, the importance of mentorship, and how they balance their cultural identities within the legal profession. The group shares their invaluable insights and advice for aspiring first-generation law students and young attorneys.

Bareeq Barqawi, DEI talent development analyst at Reed Smith, is joined by Sarah Hassaine, head of global diversity and inclusion at ResMed, to explore Sarah’s remarkable journey and groundbreaking work in the field of diversity and inclusion advocacy. As April marks National Arab American Heritage Month, Sarah shares personal insights on how her cultural background has shaped her approach to fostering inclusion both personally and professionally. From championing health equity to addressing gender disparities and advocating for marginalized communities, Sarah offers practical strategies and invaluable advice for individuals and organizations seeking to drive positive change in their spheres of influence. Listen to this episode to gain valuable insights into the transformative power of inclusive leadership. ----more---- Transcript: Intro: Welcome to the Reed Smith podcast, Inclusivity Included: Powerful Personal Stories. In each episode of this podcast, our guests will share their personal stories, passions and challenges, past and present, all with the goal of bringing people together and learning more about others. You might be surprised by what we all have in common, inclusivity included.  Bareeq: Welcome to Inclusivity Included, the Reed Smith DEI podcast. I'm your host Bareeq Barqawi today. In honor of April being Arab American Heritage Month, we have the privilege of speaking with Sarah Hassaine, the head of global diversity and inclusion at ResMed and a trailblazer in the realm of diversity and inclusion advocacy. Before we delve into our discussion, I'd like to introduce our esteemed guests to our listeners. Sarah has is a dynamic leader with a decade long track record in driving global diversity and inclusion initiatives. Currently leading a global team at ResMed, she consults, advises, and upskills leaders worldwide, designs and delivers in-house D&I trainings and evaluates policies to drive inclusion. Notable achievements include expanding Resmed's ERGs or employee resource groups from 4 to 17, increasing self ID percentages by 4% and spearheading initiatives to improve representation and advocate for accessibility. Sarah brings over 20 years of management experience with a focus on HR initiatives recognized as San Diego businesswoman of the year in 2022. She holds an MBA from Wharton Business School and outside of work, she enjoys traveling, speaking three languages and finds relaxation in sunny beach days with a good book. Today, she joins us to share her insights and experiences. Sarah, welcome to the podcast.  Sarah: Thank you. It's so good to be here. Thanks for having me.  Bareeq: Of course. I'm going to dive right in for the sake of time. Sarah as an Arab American, how has your cultural background influenced your approach to diversity and inclusion advocacy, both personally and professionally?  Sarah: Yeah, And I'm really excited and happy that we're talking about the Arab American identity. Growing up, you're, you were othered as Arab Americans. So it has helped me across my career because the beautiful thing about being an inclusion and diversity leader is that you're navigating a lot of conversations around people feeling othered, and it's any category, right? Whether it's a parent, a caregiver, a veteran, a reservist, a lot of us experience that and as an Arab American, our identity is not accounted for, right? We're, you know, we're in the Census in the US, we're accounted for as white, but we're not treated as white. Oftentimes, our names are misspelled. Uh We get a lot of questions, small microaggressions, A lot of stereotypes get cast. And as someone who grew up, you know, an American grew up in this country, uh it is very hard to constantly feel like, oh, well, you know, you guys do this or you're, you're being othered all the time. So that has definitely helped with empathy and helping me understand the communities I work with and being able to relate and show that kind of validation to, to everyone else.  Bareeq: Wonderful. As an Arab American myself, I can, I can only relate to it because I, I always say when people ask why we got into this line of work, I say, well, being excluded, majority of my life has, has uh made me want to have others avoid this feeling um and be as inclusive as we possibly can be. So, thank you for that. So can you share actually a specific moment or experience that was pivotal in your transition into the realm of inclusion and diversity advocacy?  Sarah: Yeah. So I was supporting a recruiting team uh in a past life at a, a large company. And what we started seeing organically, right was that we got less female applicants, we got less women engaging with us at conference booths and we really didn't have any women on the team. And it started kind of, you know, being this issue that the hiring managers, like we, you know, we're seeing other women going to other companies, but they're not coming here. And why is that? And we had to look inward and understand that our marketing material, the language, we, we were interviewing, we would, you know, candidates, but they would be meeting with six males and then they meet the team. And so then it wasn't actually feeling like an attractive, safe space or there was no representation. And that's when it hit me that you can be supporting business culture, you can be supporting a business, you know, in many different facets. But if the business doesn't have a culture where employees feel like they can belong, that to me was the crux of what I wanted to do. It just hit me. I'm like, this is what I wanna do. It started with women, but then it became about everybody else and everything else. Um So that was kind of my, my point and that was about 10+ years ago. Uh when I got to start working on commercials and advertisements and conference booths and really thinking about what is inclusive engagement look like. How do you attract talent so that they know that when they come in there's, they're going to have a sense of belonging?  Bareeq: I love that. That's so insightful. I think that's such a great, I guess segue into my next question because, you know, we talk about gender disparity and addressing gender disparities is a crucial aspect of advocacy work. And you often talk about encountering challenges in attracting entertaining women in the workplace. What strategies do you find most effective in addressing such challenges?  Sarah: Yeah, there's a lot of data around how women that are mentored, usually they actually stay, they're more loyal to their companies and they actually have more growth trajectory. I will say mentorship and intentional leadership development programs are really important. The second thing I would also talk about is succession planning. Companies need to really think about, okay, here's our workforce in this department. What are we doing to make sure there's an equitable opportunity for promotion for assessment uh of performance of assigning stretch assignments. And so it needs to be a level playing field for everyone. So in order to really develop, make sure that your female population is having the same access as all other genders, you wanna make sure that you have strong succession planning retention methods like learning and development and mentorship.  Bareeq: Wonderful. Thank you so much for those examples. Actually, in dedication to promoting health equity within ResMed's diversity and inclusion initiatives, can you elaborate on your efforts in this area and how you ensure that health care solutions and services provided by ResMed are accessible and inclusive for diverse communities, including those that are often actually um marginalized and underserved?  Sarah: Yeah, there are a couple of answers I want to dive into for this one. So the first one is really thinking about the diversity in our mask and sleep trials in order for us to really think about a product that, you know, we sell worldwide in over 150 countries. So we wanna make sure that we're designing a mask um that has a rep representation already. So there's been a lot of intentionality around marketing to different communities that they participate in your sleep trials and your mask trials. So it has to start at the base of your product and with your research. We also have an entire department dedicated to medical research. And they have done a great job in terms of looking at the disparities between different populations, whether it's um African American women or Hispanic, like we start looking at a location. Uh So we, we, we address health equity in different ways. So there's the research component, there's the product component and then there's, you know, the fact that our business model is different in every country to your point about underrepresented or underserved communities, really making sure that, you know, our, that providers are telling patients, hey, get sleep tested or have you thought about looking into, you know, maybe going to a storefront? Right. So it depends where we're selling. Uh, it varies. In the United States, we go through HMEs. And so we want to make sure that that our doctors are getting our patients either at home sleep tests or getting them come to come into sleep clinics.  Bareeq: That's great, especially that partnership between the doctors and your organization, um and bringing them into that conversation. Um So I know your work extends beyond the corporate realm into advocacy for marginalized communities. Um Can you share about your involvement with refugee communities, orphans and economic inclusion in the San Diego community specifically?  Sarah: Yeah, you know, the refugee space is something very dear to my heart. When I graduated college, I worked in refugee camps in Lebanon um for different communities, African, Iraqi, Palestinian, Lebanese at the time. And then I went back when the war in Syria was happening in 2016. And I worked for a couple of weeks teaching English. So the first time I did socio-economic assessments to understand what the needs were. The gaps I should say, then I went back and taught English. So the way I look at refugee assistance or assimilation is around empowerment. San Diego has one of the largest refugee communities in the United States. Um We have every community here possible; Burmese, Somali, Kurdish, Syrian, Iraqi, uh Bosnian. And growing up here, I saw the waves of communities come in. And so it was a lot around upskilling, trying to get jobs, trying to get the school, the kids to get, you know, um learn English, get mentors. So I partnered with Teach and Learn Literacy, which was actually an organization through the Arab American Anti Discrimination Committee and uh volunteered twice a week teaching a Syrian family of eight English and helping them get jobs. So I did that for a few years uh now from an economic inclusion lens as I grow in my career, I partner with different nonprofits. Um So there's like the United Women of South of East Africa, they have a community center, there's the Refugee Assistance Council. So there's, there are all these organizations that do that look for mentorships, they want internships for students. So there's a lot of opportunity for corporations like ResMed or others across San Diego. So we try to build bridges around access to information, access to jobs, to mentors. And that to me is really important to make sure that our talent in San Diego stays here, grows here, feels like the sense of belonging here. So that's uh that's kind of what I do outside of work.  Bareeq: No, I love that because it's, it's also a representative of the community within which you're you are working in and, and finding ways to actually include the community in, in the work that you're doing. And I think that's actually incredibly commendable. So thank you for sharing that. So I'm actually gonna just gonna dive into the next question, which actually has to do with this as well. And it combines a couple of things we already discussed, which is in promoting economic inclusion and pay equity, what are some practical steps organizations can take to achieve gender parity in the workplace? I know this is always, I guess like a hot topic when it comes to any really across all sectors. But I would love to hear your uh your insight on it.  Sarah: Yeah, you have to start with data, you have to start with an analysis. So my recommendation to those listening is to understand if your organization has done a pay equity analysis, um understand your your data breakdown, right within organizations, looking at the different gender breakdowns. Then you can start understanding whether you have a story or not, right? Oh, some companies will do that pay equity analysis and then they'll come back and realize, well, we've had, you know, we have this percentage of cases. It could be bad, it could be not bad, not as bad as you thought, right? But it's very, very important to start with data. So my recommendation is to understand your gender breakdowns within each business unit. And I don't necessarily, I'm not the biggest fan of setting exact goals like percentages like X percent. I think it's important to go to leaders and say, well, here's where you are right now and here's what the benchmark is in this organization. So if you're looking at a finance or you're looking at electrical engineering, the gender availability in the pool of talent is different to begin with. So you can't claim 50/50 when you don't even have 50% a female representation in electrical engineering, for example. So understanding what the benchmarks are, is really going to help you. And then you can kind of say Well, you know what, let's really try to build more of a robust pipeline. Let's be more intentional or let's sponsor this conference. So that's where you really need to start solution out. It's not a one size fits all for an entire company. You have to break down a company within the departments. And then you also need to think about the overall pay equity analysis and understanding what, where potential remunerations are and if you have to do any adjustments.  Bareeq: I really love that because you're also talking about kind of funneling it down to, to it's almost like a case by case basis, like looking at different departments or different for, let's say, let's say, for example, the legal industry, we look at different practice groups and what is the representation there to begin with before we kind of dive into what the data says. I think that's a really great point. So actually I had a question and this is going to be a little bit of a pivot. So we talk about the importance of stripping away assumptions and biases in this line of work. How can individuals and organizations actively to work toward this goal? I think it's something that I would say the word actively because it's a really a never ending process. Um But what are some, I guess tips and advice you have for people.  Sarah: You know, I see a lot of D&I leaders focusing on unconscious bias trainings and that's it's great, but they're not really proven to help or work. It is important to offer it and it's important to uh have frameworks in place. What I find more valuable is showing leaders framework so that they understand psychologically why we have built in biases. Biases are there. It's it's not good to shame anyone for having biases. So what I always do, my recommendation is to know how to navigate biases. So you need to look at each team and kind of think about, ok, talent acquisition, what are potential biases here? With resumes, here's what we could do to navigate this or with interviewing, here's what we can do to navigate biases. So kind of going back to the the gender equity, it's your solutions need to go, they are tailored to the part of the department or company that has built in biases, right? If we're talking in promotion season, uh what I've done at companies before where I am now and now is let's make sure you have that point, that person who's in the meetings to make sure that there are no biases in assessing talent. Let's make sure that you don't have any biases when you're discussing promotions. So that's, that's where it's really important is when you're having promotion conversations, a hiring conversations, development conversations. I will say, I think it's very important to repeat conversations around unconscious bias. I do this training at least twice a year globally and people show up and actually leaders ask for it. They're just like, can you come in and talk about it because biases show up even in the way we communicate. I mean, Bareeq, we started off this conversation talking about being Arab American. I can't tell you how many times people tell me, I don't look Arab like I don't even understand what that means. Right. So the biases are there. And I think the biggest thing we can also teach our employees is knowing how to navigate those conversations, in a safe way, right, as a coachable moment. You know, so that's where we don't want more microaggressions. We want safe conversations where people are learning from one another.  Bareeq: I couldn't agree with you more, especially about the repetition because I just learned in a change management workshop that something only sticks after it's been repeated to you seven times which, you know, and talking about bias, I agree. I've, I've always been of the mindset that I can't shame anyone for bias because I think bias is inherently human. Um And you can't, you know, human beings will have bias. It's really about providing, providing tool kits in order to create bias disruption. Um And that's something that I think is a, is a powerful tool to provide people and, and reminding them, you know, over the course of time like, hey, this is available and let's talk about it and kind of bring it to the forefront, especially in very pivotal moments in the company. So like when you talk about performance assessment or they're going into recruiting season or things like that, I think it's um it's always like an essential thing to keep it in mind. So I completely agree. Um So I had something about challenges that we, that we end up facing and overcoming. It's an inevitable part of this advocacy work. Can you share a challenging moment in your journey and how you overcame it?  Sarah: Only one?  Bareeq: I was about to say there's probably many but one that comes, yeah, whatever comes to mind.  Sarah: I mean, the biggest thing that comes to mind is, is budget, right? Resources. The biggest challenge I had was um being on D&I teams and not being funded, not given adequate support and being de prioritized. And I know um if there are any D&I leaders listening to this, I'm sure there are some heads nodding or uh it is the hardest thing because I don't believe that we are set up for successfully. Uh And so the, the, you know, the days I have very long days and the days where I end even more exhausted is because I felt like someone didn't show up to meeting or move me out again or delayed a solution. Uh that is hard. And the other hard part is when you know, you need support or you need head count or you need that, that money or you want to sponsor, it gets really hard when you want to sponsor something and you don't have money to do it. And so com companies need to be very committed if your company is saying that they're committed to D&I, well, you have to, you have to show up. Right. And so that's where I'll say the biggest challenges.  Bareeq: Yeah, I found that even, not just where I am currently but in other organizations I've worked for, it's, it's definitely a constant problem if either it's monetarily or like you said, having that support. And I found that kind of pivoting the conversation almost lately, especially like making it a business case brings some people to the table in a different way because they're like, oh, you know, I never thought of it this way. So it's almost like changing perspectives on people's approach to D&I. You, you sometimes hope it was, you know, people come into it like already being there, but to get people there, you kind of have to find different approaches I feel. And finally, as we wrap up, um so what advice would you give beyond what we've given, because this has been a wonderful key conversation, what would you give advice to individuals or organizations looking to become more active in promoting inclusion diversity within their spheres of influence?  Sarah: Just to make sure it's uh for companies, right?  Bareeq: Advice for, for companies, for individuals, you know, people that are working to become more influential in the organization.  Sarah: So for internal advocates or internal stakeholders and D&I leaders, there is the opportunity you there's to really understand the power of influence and persistence and no one can really succeed in D&I without that strategic business lens. Like you need to understand your business and by understanding the business, then you can adapt a conversation around. What does inclusion mean at this business? What does it mean? Whether for my products, for my people, for our policies? Uh So that's my biggest one for internal and then for companies, I will say it's very important that if your values call out inclusion, diversity, belonging, acceptance, accessibility, then you have to embed that across all your work streams. You have to really think about. It's not just a people practice, it's an every leader, every person practice.  Bareeq: Thank you so much. I love that because it's almost like building in the expectation in anything that you kind of approach within the company. I love that. Thank you so much, Sarah for sharing your valuable insights and experience with us today. It's been an honor having you on the podcast and we really, I think have taken away some wonderful, wonderful key tips and advice that we will definitely be using hopefully.  Sarah: This is a joy. Thank you so much, Bareeq for the opportunity.  Bareeq: Thank you. And that's all for today's episode of Inclusivity Included. Join us next time as we continue our exploration of diversity, equity and inclusion. Thank you for listening.  Outro: Inclusivity Included is a Reed Smith production. Our producers are Ali McCardell and Shannon Ryan. You can find our podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, reedsmith.com, and our social media accounts.  Disclaimer: This podcast is provided for educational purposes. It does not constitute legal advice and is not intended to establish an attorney-client relationship, nor is it intended to suggest or establish standards of care applicable to particular lawyers in any given situation. Prior results do not guarantee a similar outcome. Any views, opinions, or comments made by any external guest speaker are not to be attributed to Reed Smith LLP or its individual lawyers.  All rights reserved. Transcript is auto-generated.

Intro: Welcome to the Reed Smith podcast Inclusivity Included: Powerful Personal Stories. In each episode of this podcast, our guests will share their personal stories, passions and challenges, past and present, all with the goal of bringing people together and learning more about others. You might be surprised by what we all have in common, inclusivity included.  David: Hello, everyone. Welcome back to Inclusivity Included. My name's David Boutcher. I'm a partner in the Reed Smith Global Corporate Group based in London. The title of this podcast is Diversity, equity and inclusion: Disability, a key focus for organizations. I've been involved with uh LEADRS, Reed Smith's Disability Group, since it began. And we thought it would be important to uh have a podcast as to why we think it's important to focus on, on disability, disability events, uh disability initiatives. Uh I'm joined by colleagues, Vaibhav Adlakha, Joanne Christopher, and Carole Mehigan. As they join the podcast, I will ask them to say a little bit about, about uh who they are as well. So I think um I'd like to kick off with talking about some of the specific events that we've had over recent years and the reasoning behind them and why we think they're really important and uh Vaibhav perhaps you'd like to kick us off on that. Vaibhav: Thanks David. So as David mentioned, my name is Vaibhav Adlakha. I am an associate in our competition team here in London, but I also have an interest specifically in the diversity inclusion issues. I also have a physical disability and use a wheelchair. Now, I wanna begin with a personal, little personal thing. Before I joined Reed Smith and I thought about what my identity was going to be, I thought I only wanted to be a lawyer, but as I joined and began my journey here at Reed Smith, I realized that we have a platform to make the change what we want to see in the profession and be a leader in what we want, how we want people to see view the profession. As David often says, we are the best of a bad bunch. But I guess my goal was to try and create uh something where it is beyond my own success. It is a legacy that we can continue. Just to spotlight on one of on some of our events, we started in doing our Disability Inclusion Summits in 2020. Um Necessity is the mother of invention. So uh during the pandemic, we wanted to celebrate International Day of Persons with Disabilities. And we, thought, what better way to do that when by discussing issues and creating an environment not only for our ourselves, but also for our clients and anyone who wishes to participate, to be honest, uh whether no matter how far you are in your disability journey, whether you have reservations, whether you're further ahead, whether you're converted. So that's the Disability Summits explored different topics. How it is to work in the pandemic. What is the myths of uh disability inclusion? How can you embrace the journey? What are some of the things that different clients have done in their journey to disability? So long story short, the the Disability Summits were done as a platform to of discussion no matter how, how far you are in that journey. And we believe that it's an important, important aspect to understanding what we can do better, how we can invest in education and especially disability education and how we can cut down boundaries. If I can touch upon briefly on some of our other events uh that we have done, which is the allyship event on the importance of carers, allies and support groups. Uh This was basically done for the purpose of understanding the mindset of those who support vulnerable people, whether that's people with disabilities, uh parents, children. Because if you understand the mindset of those individuals who do it, regardless of the challenges, then you can be part of that super group, you can become part of being an ally. So that was the reason we did that as an event. And uh the importance of a career fair. Um Carole who will, who you will hear from did a specific career for fair for people with disabilities. And we wanted to do that simply because we are keen to uh cut down the barriers uh that people with disabilities face in education, in schools so that uh they, they can understand the aspirations that it you can have. And finally, we do uh understand the importance of learning and constantly improving, and that's why disability training sessions are not only important from a policy perspective as it is the right thing to do, but also so that it, it transfers down from people who work with you every day so that they understand what it is to work with people with disabilities. And we understand as well as people with disabilities, how we can, how we need to adapt to fit within the environment. Um So with that, I'll just hand over back to David to and David, I wanted to ask you about why from a Reed Smith perspective, because I've given the reason for the idea is that we had, but why from a Reed Smith perspective, it's important as a firm that we invest in disability inclusion? David: Thanks Vaibhav. Yeah, I mean, I think um it's really important for so many reasons if you like both internal and external as far as uh the firm is concerned. uh Reed Smith is very proud of its culture and its core values. And I think to have these events and initiatives on issues and highlighting the challenges of people with disabilities really shows uh that culture and those core values uh in action. And also I think it helps uh educate our own people with regard to the challenges faced by people with disabilities. I think so often people feel as though they haven't come across people with disabilities and are actually unsure as to how to deal with those people. So I think most employers actually face a key challenge to, to address that issue. And I think professional services organizations like Reed Smith are particularly well placed. It's a bit of a cliché, but we often say we're a, we're a people business, which we are. And I think that means that we have a responsibility to talk to all of our people. But also the people with whom we interact, particularly clients about the challenges faced by people with disabilities. A as it’s often said, when talking about diversity, equity and inclusion, the one area of diversity which is often at the bottom of the list, and I'm, I'm afraid to say sometimes not even mentioned is the, the challenges in the area of people, people with disabilities. It is changing, it's not changing fast enough. Um So I think it's really important that we, that we, we focus on it uh as an organization. And I think also it's important in terms of training and education at multiple levels and, and, and I know, Vaibhav, you've had uh experience when you were training as to what you might be training for and what might be available to you uh as a person with a disability. And I think again, we have a responsibility as employer to demonstrate how people with disabilities can be included, work with colleagues and most importantly, be treated equally. And I think that is often the challenge that people are not sure how to accommodate people with disabilities. And it is often a fine balance between uh treating people equally. Uh But they're not treating them equally because they, if you like focusing on their disabilities and and unfairly making that um stand out and we only improve that by uh talking about these issues. And in terms of uh you know, having a platform where we can help change the mindset around people with disabilities as with any mindset. Actually, it's not something you're gonna change overnight. So I think it's important that we have a continuing program of initiatives uh and events where we talk about the many challenges faced by um people with disabilities. And of course, the whole area of disability itself is, is, is very complex, there are physical disabilities, there are mental hidden disabilities. And again, I just think historically, it's just not something that people have talked about and I think people want to hear other people's views, they want to be here uh about the experiences that people with disabilities have had. And the other really important thing is we want to make the most of people's talents and so many people with disabilities have unique talents. I, I've often said often somebody with a disability has had huge challenges in their lives, which they've met, you know, with gusto, they, it's given them great confidence and that actually gives the individual the kind of qualities that most employers would really want to have. So there are all sorts of positives to look at uh as well. But most importantly, unless we address this, we've almost got a whole lost sector of our population where we're not actually uh making the most of that uh of that talent. And I think it's really important to address it on so many levels. So as Vaibhav has said, we've had many different events and most recently we've been talking about support groups and allyship and representation. Vaibhav: David I just wanted to make before you hand over to Carole, is you talked about how from a disability point of view, we we as firms, we need to understand what, during my training for instance, you said, what are you working towards? I think from a disability person perspective, it's also fundamental for, for us to understand how, how to work with an organization because in the end organizations or businesses. So it's more of a collaborative effort. And I think by doing these events uh or being on the inside, right, you can not only kind of make the profession of the firm or what you're aspiring towards. Uh you can mold that together as a, as a partnership, but also uh the wider perspective. Also, I was hoping we could talk about why clients think it's important to in that respect. So we can, we can discuss that at some point. David: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, clients, uh as I mentioned earlier, I think it, it, it's, that's why again, it's important for the firm because I think that we need to share those experiences with clients and and ultimately, of course, it helps strengthen the relationship with clients. And again, where I welcome uh Carole’s comments, you know, that often comes down to other parties, support groups, uh allyship representation, which was of course the focus of the last disability event that we held. So Carole, perhaps you'd like to say a few words about that. Carole: Thank you, David. Thank you Vaibhav. Thank you for having me on this podcast today. Um Delighted to be speaking with my wonderful colleagues. So my name's Carole Mehigan. I am the responsible business manager for our Europe Middle East and Asian offices. I am based in the London office. Um and I concentrate mainly on the London and our Leeds office where I host a multitude of events and um projects um across the area. So, concentrating on, on disability, really. I do a lot of student programs across the different age range. Um And during my time in doing my role at Reed Smith, I realized that, you know, disability is still slightly taboo amongst our students. I know young people, they don't actually realize that, you know, we're breaking those barriers down for them and that we're trying to ensure that they feel inclusive to, you know, going into a law firm and the legal sector uh has changed over the years. So working with schools who uh who predominantly work with students with disabilities and universities, who also focus a lot on a lot of students who have disabilities has been fantastic for us as a law firm because they were actually hitting that talent that seems to still be hidden away. And one of the reasons why I was so keen to do the disability career fair, um which we did um last year was because I wanted to really shine a light on those students and young people who don't feel that they are getting the focus enough or don't still feel like they would be welcomed into the legal industry. So actually focusing on them and giving them the opportunity to come into a place like where we work and to really speak to people from a diverse background, but also people with disabilities, myself being one. I was diagnosed in 2020 with neurodiversity and disabilities. So for me being an advocate in that respect as well, um and also supporting from, from the representation within Reed Smith, I thought was a very keen focus for me to make sure that students understood that we were a disability friendly organization. And David and Vaibhav have both touched upon the client engagement on the, at the disability fair. We did invite some clients who again are disability friendly. They wanted to promote that and show uh students what opportunities you can find within their organizations. So it really gave us a chance for us to talk about what we do, what we do in that space, what sort of opportunities there are for students with, with or without disabilities, but obviously focus a lot on on on disability side and also to encourage students and young people to feel like they can talk about their disability. They can actually bring that into the conversation and not be scared to hide, hide it in the background because they're worried that if they do say anything about their disability, then it will be frowned upon or they will be seen as a lesser candidate for any particular role within the business. So for me doing work uh with schools and with universities on the back of the disability fair, I'm now working with a school which exclusively has students. Every student has a disability. I'm now working with them to provide some of their students with work experience. So it's that continue of working with, you know, students and young people. So they understand that there are loads of opportunities, loads of great ways of them having an insight into our firm and, and hopefully that's going to continue. So that's what we're doing really on from the UK and the sort of Europe, Middle East and Asia side. I'm gonna hand over to Joanne who is one of our colleagues in the US for her to kind of give a little bit of more about what we're doing in the US with regards to disability. Joanne: Thank you, Carole. Uh My name is Joanne Christopher. I'm the senior human resources manager in our Pittsburgh office. I'm also the HR liaison to our LEADRS disability employee resource group in the US. Of course, we do participate with our college in Europe in the Middle East and also in Asia um on our disability program. Um as as David mentioned, people with disabilities have amazing abilities by not including them or missing out on a vast talent pole. It's very important to have diversity of thought, uh diversity of culture, and people disabilities are part of that diversity that Reed Smith values. I know that a lot of employers uh when they hear about employing folks with disability, they immediately talk about the cost of accommodations. It's widely known that most accommodations cost less than $500 and some cost nothing at all. So there's no reason not to include these colleagues. Uh People with disabilities want to work and they have a lot to offer us. Here in the United States, uh we are very proud that we have received the National Organization on Disabilities uh Leading Disability Employer Recognition. We also are part of NOD’s Leadership Council and we've received 100% on the disability equality index through Disability: IN. And so, um it, it's not just a lot of talking words. Reed Smith really is putting into action a lot of initiatives to help our colleagues with disabilities because we value the gifts that they have to offer us. Some of the resources for our employers that we've developed, we've created this disability etiquette guide to help those people who aren't used to working with people with disabilities to be a little more comfortable to know how to approach a situation. We have institute of project ability where we work with clients on including a person with disability on each side of our client teams and the disability is only disclosed if the person wants to disclose that. So, you know, you could not know who the disabled person is on a particular project. We've created an accommodations resource to help other folks feel comfortable coming forward to request accommodations. It's a sample of a lot of the accommodations that we have across the firm. We also host weekly coffees and in those weekly coffees uh which again are available throughout our global platform, we get to know our colleagues. We offer support if someone is struggling or, you know, we just get to know each other if there is an oppressing issue that someone wants to bring forward. We have established subcommittees on accessibility, neurodiversity, peer support, recruiting, retention, and promotion and events and speakers here in the US, particularly in Pittsburgh, we partner with St. Anthony's School at Duquesne University to provide vocational training opportunities for college age students who uh have down syndrome autism or other intellectual disability by hosting them here in an internship program where they're learning a lot of job skills, uh how to dress for the world of work. Uh Some of those, those non uh visible types of things that you need to bring to a job, like being on time, how to get to and from work and those kinds of things. But more than that our employees just love when, when the students are here and it gives them an opportunity to work side by side with people with disabilities. Um We've also partnered with Special Olympics to host bocce tournaments. We have different awareness days and um again, we have a process to uh support all of our employees, those with disabilities and those without. So, so that's a little bit of what we're doing here in the US.  Vaibhav: From a student perspective. You, you really, and this is me speaking not being a Reed Smith employee, you really don't understand how important those kind of events are working with your working with the schools and doing a career for solely for people with disabilities because what happens is they don't know what they can be. Uh, if me coming from India, living in the Netherlands, I didn't even realize I could be a lawyer because I didn't know what professions were open to me. And so from a student perspective, if, if you have uh an environment or uh have clients who are willing to say, you know, these are the career paths that you can have. They, not everybody is probably gonna be a lawyer, not everybody is going to be uh someone in the legal profession or a partner or something like that. But at least they have aspirations to, to know who they can be. And for someone with a disability who, who, who can, who sometimes is not allowed to see beyond just what, what he, she can't do that. That is invaluable. I think before we close, I, I wanted to ask David one thing about how, because a lot of organizations talk about these are our business goals, these are our diversity goals. And if we invest too much in diversity, especially in our legal profession because they, they charge every minute unfortunately, but uh and every second that you're actually working, how, how do you deal with the fact that someone with a disability may take longer may not be as efficient? And how do you then figure out that, that your business goals and your diversity goals can be one? David: Well, I think it, and thanks Vaibhav, I think it even goes wider than that. I mean, as uh Joanne was talking, I was thinking about uh ESG environmental social governance, which we advise a lot of our, our clients on. And I think in terms of when it comes to goals uh related to the accommodation of people with disabilities which Vaibhav has just touched on, they really have to be integrated fully into all of our business goals. And this is the mistake. I think that so many organizations often make that uh they just focus on if you like their corporate and social responsibility actions rather than integrating these issues throughout their business. So uh I think as Joanne mentioned, we have this uh project ability initiative where we have, you know, uh somebody with a disability working on, on, on, on each matter, we have uh initiatives working with clients uh where we're discussing and championing the causes of people with disabilities. And I think also we're educating one another on uh as I touched on early treating people with disabilities equally because again, answering Vaibhav’s point about uh how we uh accommodate the challenges of people with disabilities within our own business goals. It's as we accommodate all people within our business goals because no one is perfect and uh all people have strengths and weaknesses. It just so happens that we're where you come to a person with a disability, their weakness is often focused on that disability. But other people's weaknesses may be focused on the fact that they don't have the greatest talent in certain areas, but they've got a much stronger talent in other areas. And as we would say, it's horses for courses and it, when it comes to people with disability, it's not saying, well, they're actually a completely different animal separately and we must kind of somehow have a separate initiative for them. Well, no, they're just, they're part of all of our people. Uh And the way we accommodate them is the way we accommodate everybody and everybody needs some kind of accommodation because as they say, nobody is perfect. And, and I think that one thing I've learned from working with a number of people with disabilities is that that's kind of the number one thing that they really want is to be treated equally and, and on parity with, with, with everybody else. And I think we're moving in that direction when I say we, I mean, society generally, and I think that's why the whole ESG initiative now is great because that is all about how businesses can not only operate themselves independently in doing the right thing, but how they impact all their stakeholders and the wider society and community at large. And I think work in uh helping and highlighting the challenges of people with disabilities fits into that so well, because there are so many issues to be addressed. And as Vaibhav has alluded to so many ways in which we can, uh we can influence wider society um for the better. Vaibhav: So it's all about adapting and adapting the way, seeing the ability in others and adapting your working practices about adapting your mindset. And my one final question, because this is something I'm really passionate on is, Carole and Joanne, I think I, I think I wanted to understand because having every organization has a, has a CSR Corporate Social Responsibility or, or responsible business. These are, these are tools that every organization kind of has. And for me, I, I always think that if you can focus on a cause and use the tools you already possess as an organization, you can make a difference. How do you think uh in terms of what we are trying to achieve from a responsible business perspective, helps prepare society and businesses to embrace diversity, inclusion and become better allies. Carole: I, I don't mind starting first. So I think, you know, we, we as a firm, we see responsible business is a way of life. It's a way of us showing our culture and of a firm and how we want to provide support for, for each other. So we see it that, you know, we are a business that wants to be responsible for the wider community and that includes uh young people and students, et cetera um in the disability arena. We want to, we don't want anyone to feel excluded. You know, for, like I said, for a long time, especially students and young people who do have disabilities have been afraid to say it. They've been afraid to say on an application form or when they're being interviewed. And the, the, the problem then you have is how can you support somebody if you don't know that they need that support. So as a responsible business, as you know, we have to ensure that people understand that, you know, bring your true self to the workplace. You know, when you are applying somewhere, if you feel that you can't be completely honest and open about what you know yourself and if you have a disability, it may be not the right place for you and with working with other organizations such as clients, for example, who are also thinking in the same way that we are, you know, makes that uh collaboration with our clients, not just from a client service perspective, but also from the fact that we're organizations all trying to meet the needs of a particular demographic of people who feel like they're still outsiders. So I think being responsible for the wider community in whatever way you can bring in our community internally, to meet the external community is really important. And it also allows us as a community internally to show that we already have lots and lots of people with disabilities of all sorts, whether it's visible, invisible neurodiversity, whatever it may be and how, you know, how much they have made a success of their careers, you know, shining that light out there, letting other people know you could follow in the same footprints you could follow down the same career path is really, really important. So it's not just a case of talking the talk, you need to walk the walk, you need to do that by showing how you're going to do that. And the only way you can do that is like doing events like we've done already uh finding ways to get into the community and show what you can provide them and what they can provide to us. Because you know, even with having a disability of any sort, you bring a unique talent to the table, you know, we all bring something to the table and having disability is already a challenge for you as a person.  So when you can bring that to the table and be successful in your career, choice of career, I think just shows that, you know, you have resilience, you, you can champion yourself and you can really go, you know, help other people to feel that they can do the same thing. I'll hand over to Joanne at this point. Joanne: The one thing I would say is a professional services firm, we are in the people business. So we need to take care of our people so that they can do the best work that they can do. Disability cuts across all corners of our lives. It's socio-economic, it's diverse groups. It's every ethnic background. There are people with disabilities in every corner and these people have a lot of gifts to offer and we need to support them.  Vaibhav: As a final comment for me, this working on disability is not a silo. Every aspect of your organization can work on it whether you have pro bono uh projects that focus on disability, responsible business projects or simply come up with a legal initiative and do something like training for your employees so that they can better understand. But it's a two sided training. We, we as people with disabilities need to understand how it is to work in an organization and how it is to adapt. Whereas the organization has tools that are already there for them to focus on the ability of people. And that's something organizations do anyway, because they, they focus on who the person can be and what tools they can provide. So through this podcast, I hope that a lot of organizations who or people who are listening gain the confidence that you have the tools within your organization within yourselves to actually make a difference to anyone, let alone people with a disability and, and work and adapt to make professions better than when we found them, when we enter that each of us uh from our experience. So with that, I thank everybody for listening to our Inclusivity Included podcast. You will find a whole range of podcasts on Inclusivity Included, our podcast channel discussing a wide variety of issues to do with disability, and diversity, equity and inclusion. And I, I have enjoyed working uh talking discussing about this with my colleagues. So thank you very much and thank you for listening. Outro: Inclusivity Included is a Reed Smith production. Our producers are Ali McCardell and Shannon Ryan. You can find our podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, reedsmith.com and our social media accounts. Disclaimer: This podcast is provided for educational purposes. It does not constitute legal advice and is not intended to establish an attorney-client relationship, nor is it intended to suggest or establish standards of care applicable to particular lawyers in any given situation. Prior results do not guarantee a similar outcome. Any views, opinions, or comments made by any external guest speaker are not to be attributed to Reed Smith LLP or its individual lawyers. All rights reserved. Transcript is auto-generated.

We delve into the transformative initiatives undertaken by LexisNexis to shape the landscape of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) in the legal industry. Our guest, Adonica Black, director of global talent development and inclusion at LexisNexis, shares insights into the organization’s commitment to fostering a culture of inclusion, supporting law firms in their DEI efforts and making a significant impact through innovative programs like the LexisNexis African Ancestry Network and LexisNexis Rule of Law Foundation Fellowship. Join our host, Bareeq Barqawi, for a thought-provoking conversation on the current state and future trends of DEI in the legal sphere. ----more---- Transcript: Intro: Welcome to the Reed Smith podcast, Inclusivity Included: Powerful Personal Stories. In each episode of this podcast, our guests will share their personal stories, passions and challenges, past and present, all with the goal of bringing people together and learning more about others. You might be surprised by what we all have in common, inclusivity included. Bareeq: Welcome to Inclusivity Included our DEI podcast at Reed Smith. I'm your host, Bareeq Barqawi. And today we have the honor of hosting Adonica Black, the Director of Global Diversity and Inclusion for LexisNexis Legal and Professional. Adonica's journey is an inspiring blend of legal expertise, commitment to diversity and inclusion and a passion for justice. Welcome, Adonica. Adonica: Thank you so much, Bareeq. Very happy to join you. Bareeq: Thank you. Um So let's kick things off by discussing your role as the director of Global Diversity and Inclusion at LexisNexis. How is your personal and professional journey influenced your approach to fostering a culture of inclusion within organizations? Adonica: Yes. So my background is a bit unique because I have a legal background. Um I formerly was in litigation before joining LexisNexis. So I have the perspective of both um a practitioner as well as from the business perspective and the value of diversity, equity and inclusion in both arenas. So when transitioning into the business of the law through LexisNexis, um I started actually working with our largest clients. I'm based in the Washington, D.C. area and started working um on very straightforward kind of business development with our clients. And in those conversations and experiences had the opportunity to connect with so many different attorneys in different practice areas and discuss their, you know, the value system that they bring to their practice. And in those conversations uncovered this emerging more explicit value. I think it's the value has always existed but more explicitly stated value around a culture of inclusion in the practice of law and a want to achieve justice. And that really led me on my professional journey towards where I am currently as the global Director of Inclusion and Diversity for LexisNexis as an opportunity arose within the organization to really exemplify those values that have existed in, in myself and in the profession through this specific role. Bareeq: That's amazing, especially because having that knowledge and background, I think makes you even more equipped to understand different perspectives that come into DEI especially in the legal industry. So LexisNexis has demonstrated a really strong commitment to diversity and inclusion. Can you highlight one or two key initiatives or actions that LexisNexis has undertaken recently to promote that culture within the organization? Adonica: Yeah, so as a business, we think about our culture of inclusion um through four pillars, what we call um our foundational pillar of making sure that our vision of our culture is strong and our leadership's commitment and accountability to our culture of inclusion is also strong. And then we have focus on external making sure that our external participation with our customers and the external community supports our culture of inclusion. So as a business, our mission is to advance the rule of law. And we like to say we're creating a more just world. And so that ties very well with our commitment and our value system of a culture of inclusion. And then the third pillar is internally, we're really focused on attracting retaining and developing all talent that supports diverse inclusive business processes and our and our business overalls representation of our talent. So that means anyone that is willing to make sure that they're an inclusive leader or a contributor is important to us. And we really focus on our processes to support achieving and attracting that great talent. And then our final pillar is around continuous improvement and assessment because we are very aware that as other fields evolve. D&I also needs to evolve because it needs to reflect the evolution of equity and inclusion as we move forward as a culture. So those four pillows just kind of over arch all of the programming, all of the initiatives and all of the actions that we take within our DEI work. And so two programs that I could share that I'm really proud of um include our work around developing our talent um into senior leadership. So we've just had completed a program this past year, around, and we will continue, around developing women who have displayed high potential talent in our organization and partnering them with men who are already senior leaders as sponsors and allies to help them grow in their careers. We call that our lead program. We received a gold award um from Brandon Hall, which is a very well respected human capital initiative organization throughout the business world. And in the program itself, like I said, we've paired women with male leaders and we've seen these women go through developmental opportunities to help them grow in their own talent, help make seed in their professional performance and development. And then also we've also developed our male leaders who also have grown more inclusive and more equitable in their leadership. So we've seen great progress and great results from this program because we've been able to help both sides of the perspective in terms of the program develop their skills as a leader and as a contributor. Another program I'd love to highlight is our partnership with our Enabled employee resource group, which is our employee resource group focused on different differing abilities within our talent force. Our Enabled employee resource group has really led our business to be more inclusive in how we produce our product. So they've actually partnered with our product and technology teams to help make sure that our actual product or actual technology and reason sources that are available to our customer community are accessible and in a couple key ways, um making sure that they're visually accessible and then also making sure that they are accessible for differing needs for different attorneys. And that has been amazing because it really has solidified what we like to call the business case for diversity equity and inclusion because we're able to reach a broader customer base and a broader audience and serve their needs. But also having that varied perspective has allowed us to evolve as a business to make sure that we're building in these inclusive features throughout our product. Bareeq: Wow, that's incredible work. Um I'm honestly just, it's just delightful to hear that there's uh organizations working on these kind of things, especially when it comes to gender equity and inclusive leadership and digital accessibility, which we actually uh highlighted in another episode on our podcast. So, so given your expertise, what notable trends are emerging in the legal industry regarding diversity and inclusion um especially considering recent challenges and attacks on DEI following that Supreme Court decision on Harvard and UNC. Adonica: It's interesting where we are as a, I like to say, as a function within diversity equity inclusion. And then of course, where we are as a nation. Um I live in the United States, where we are in the world um globally, all of those perspectives and how these recent Supreme Court decisions have contributed to this. Um from my perspective, the recent Supreme Court decisions very clearly and obviously affect higher education, right? And business in the business world relies upon higher education to produce the available talent to us. And it's disheartening to see the ways in which the Supreme Court has changed what we can expect from higher education without providing any kind of real guidance around how to move forward. So I do see in higher education, um leaders are struggling with how to deal with this and how to continue to espouse their values of diversity and inclusion while being legally compliant. That of course bleeds over into the business world because it, it's persuasive authority in a way and for people who may have wanted to roll back DEI practices to now refer to this decision as a reason to do the same in the business world. And I do think it's very clear just in the way in which the courts and the cases are evolving that this will be addressed in the courts at some point. What I think this has done though is it's created this like forced maturity and DEI work that I think was already evolving and um iterating. But at with this decision, it has really created this point where it's become necessary um to evolve our processes to be inclusive across the board and really strengthen DEI work. And so I've seen from our business, our values remain our commitment to our culture of inclusion remains and it has allowed us to open our aperture and think about structurally making sure all of our processes are inclusive and that benefits everybody that doesn't just benefit people that you may think of as typically diverse talent. I like to think that everyone has diverse characteristics and different dimensions of diversity. So everyone is benefiting from these more strong inclusive processes. So just to kind of ground that in a in a very tangible way, as a business, we are evolving our recruiting processes to make sure that we are instituting structured interviewing across the board for all roles, for all segments in our business and structured interviewing essentially means that everyone who is applying for a specific role has the same interview experience. So we're making sure that we ask the same question. We have the same kind of cadence of conversations and we have the same objective measurements to measure all of our candidates. So that makes the process better for everybody in my opinion, at least for us to achieve greater outcomes because we'll get the objectively best candidate. And it allows for the elimination of biases that may have crept into the process when it was more subjective. So the changes in the law has really precipitated the need for strengthening our processes and DEI work. And I think that will actually lead to greater outcomes. But there's a lot of growing pains as well. I'm sure, you know, happening right now in, in this area. Bareeq: Absolutely. It is, you know, it's a great way. It's a great perspective. And I think it's a really optimistic perspective that you brought forth, which is that I know you mentioned like force maturity, which I, I love the way you put that. But essentially it, it forced us all to audit our own DEI programs to see what is effective, what is impactful and to reassess making sure things are aligned with our values because the need is still there. It's just finding out, you know, how can we remain inclusive, remain true to our goals and missions. And then like you said, strengthen that foundation. So let's shift gears a little bit to the LexisNexis African Ancestry Network and LexisNexis Rule of Law Foundation Fellowship, uh which I had the great privilege of uh going to the retreat and getting to see it firsthand. Can you delve into the impact of the fellowship program and perhaps even share a success story or two from the recent cohorts? Adonica: Absolutely. And I'm so excited that you joined us for our, what we call our Innovation Retreat. I'll just give a little background on the program itself. Sure, the LexisNexis African Ancestry Network and LexisNexis Rule of Law Foundation Fellowship is an extension of our commitment to eliminate systemic racism in the legal system and build a culture of inclusion and diversity within our own organization. So, the initiative was launched in 2021 in partnership with the Historically Black Colleges and Law School Consortium and it includes all six law schools within that consortium and the National Bar Association, which is the largest professional association of Legal Practitioners um of Black or African descent globally. And the program is focused on developing solutions to address those systemic inequities that exist within our legal system. And so we've had the privilege of working with Reed Smith as one of our foundational partners to support this program. And as you mentioned, we host an Innovation retreat usually in the spring where our fellows meet at our Raleigh Tech Center and meet with our technology and product teams and engineers and really deep dive into LexisNexis, technology and resources and learn how to utilize those resources to address the issue that they're focused on within their fellowship program. We also get the bilateral benefit of our fellows also providing a diverse perspective on the utilization of our tools and technology to our talent and our teams that are able to then like I said, make, build stronger products, representing um our diverse customer base. So the fellows are organized um into five key areas that I like to call kind of cradle to grave systemic legal issues that uh address address challenges in our legal system, starting with our Gavel League team, which our, our team is focused on developing an app that provides early childhood legal education to the community overall. Because we've done research um empirically and subjectively that has determined that some of the lack of representation in the legal system with regard to diverse attorneys in in the profession, stems from childhood experiences and kind of a lack of awareness or even a diversion to the practice of law. And so that mobile application that they're building is designed to increase literacy and comprehension of the rule of law and critical legal concepts that children encounter. And that also may assist their parents and guardians with their rights and representation as well. The second project is I, Too, Sing America and that project is focused on uncovering untold us history through the law and creating more culturally competent attorneys. So this is for once you've reached the stage of being in law school and you're getting your legal education. Our fellows, there are focused on creating an accessible repository of inclusive curriculum resources including racially diverse case law that will help increase their awareness of cultural differences and nuances in the law itself and build that more culturally competent lawyer across the board, benefiting all attorneys and future attorneys in law school. Our third project team is called the Pathways to Practice Pipeline and they're focused on building bridges for HBCU students to legal fields that lack diversity in their representation. So this is the stage where you are, you know, out of law school and you're now in the profession and you're thinking about ascending to leadership levels in the profession, how do you increase the diversity of the professionals that are in practice? Um And they're focused on partnerships with corporate law, the judiciary, um and judicial clerkship opportunities and then large law opportunities as well. So thinking about where do we lack representation and how do we build those pipelines to strengthen the, the talent that is coming into these into the profession itself. Fourth project, technology solutions to alleviate racial bias in jury selection. This team um is doing really exciting work leveraging artificial intelligence, um machine learning and data analytics to analyze representative juries by jurisdiction and provide data analytics tools to practitioners to help them achieve a representative jury and that constitutional right for their client. So they're analyzing currently, they've analyzed um North Carolina, California, Louisiana and New York. And we're planning to build that that out to other jurisdictions to look at what is a representative jury look like based on your jurisdiction and provide practitioners with a resource to then be able to advocate on behalf of their client um at that level of trial proceedings. And then our final group is focused on legal clinic, support tools to combat systemic racism in the legal system So we started with kind of cradle and this ends it at grave level where we're thinking about how do we um provide legal clinics with resources to enhance their pro bono work that may contribute to estate planning, um intellectual property, appraisal biases, court proceedings and some other areas, key areas that we're looking at in terms of access to justice and how many people are able to access justice, which is usually through a legal clinic or a low cost clinic to help them achieve um legal representation. So we've got a full spectrum of projects and a really robust team of both fellows and mentors from within LexisNexis building and working on these projects as, as a overall fellowship program. Bareeq: Thank you so much um for sharing that and for thoroughly describing it, I uh I got to go myself just to, I got a taste of it when I went to the retreat and it was um a really eye opening experience. I mean, we already know that we, we operate unfortunately in a system of, of systemic racism and, and uh and oppression. But to see the ways that the projects in the fellowship were, were based on deliverables and based on um that mentorship piece and being able to uh see what the future could look like and working toward it. I thought it was just uh really great to see um and really impactful. Adonica: Thank you so much for joining us. It was wonderful to have your perspective and your overall firm support to really help us ground the work that we're doing in practical application. Bareeq: Yes, absolutely. And actually based on, on that topic, on your, based on your experience, what advice would you give to law firms aiming to enhance their diversity and inclusion efforts? Are there like specific strategies or some best practices that you believe could make a substantial impact? Adonica: Oh, that's such a large endeavor. I think there's quite a few things that law firms can do and things that I've seen work really well within law firms that I think should just grow in practice. Um So I would start with assessment and goal setting. I think that having very clear assessment indicators around how law firms are performing with regard to their DEI efforts is important. So demographic data, I know law firms do a lot of survey surveys um and capture that kind of data but also deeper dive into things like who's working on what kind of substantive projects who, who has partner support or mentorship sponsorship and trying to quantify those sometimes intangible development opportunities, I think provides a strong assessment of current performance and areas to highlight and focus upon. And I know law firms are doing really great work on evolving how they're looking at developing their diverse talent from just capturing high level demographic data to actually going a line below and looking at substantive um opportunities that has come about for the different demographics and then also what mentoring opportunities. Um And the like that I mentioned, I think of course continuing with inclusive recruitment practices, I've seen Reed Smith, for example, do that very well in reaching out to a diverse set of law schools, not just from typical, diverse standpoints, but also geographically. Um maybe even quote unquote tier wise, so that you're reaching all levels of talent that could bring great perspective to the practice in the firm. I mentioned mentorship and sponsorship. I think having formal mentorship and sponsorship programs and formalizing those opportunities are important because without that, they tend to slip into maybe some biased practices where some achieve mentorship and sponsorship and some don't. So I think kind of codifying those programs and making them inclusively accessible is very key to developing all law firm talent. And then I think thinking about the culture within the law firm is very important because law firms are interesting because there's kind of maybe two segments of firm employee, right? There's what you have, what you may call the timekeepers and people who are practicing law, and then you have people who are running the business of the law firm and there may be separations in that culture, but creating that kind of one team approach and inclusive environment really strengthens the overall law firm performance. Um So I think those are some really great things law firms can do to support their culture of DEI, I also think flexibility. I know the the practice of law and the profession gets a bad rep for not being um super cutting edge. But I actually think that the practice of law law firms in the legal profession has done very well with extraordinary circumstances in the past few years and adapting to those circumstances. So I'd love to see the continual adaptation and kind of evolution there with regard to flexibility. I don't think we should go back to a previous version of practicing law. I think the flexibility helps grow the practice. And I think it shows in the numbers I law firms are doing well in terms of financial performance and they're growing. So that flexibility, I think is key to that as well. Bareeq: You know, I was just talking to somebody about this because uh sometimes at law firms, I find it more um blatant to see, but there is sometimes an um a way to approach work that there creates some sort of a generational divide. Um And I think especially since in the last few years, the younger generations are working toward more of a work life balance and flexible model. Um But people that didn't grow up in that struggle to fully understand that because it is not what they knew. So um finding a way to kind of bring people in and create that sense of belonging within the culture, I think is a challenge law firms are facing. But like you said, I think it's something they're addressing and, and kind of working uh forward with and evolving because I don't think things can unfortunately stay the same. Things are, you know, going to have to hopefully improve for the better. And that being said, my, my last question today is uh we talked about it a little bit earlier about the business case. So diversity and inclusion are often touted as beneficial for business. And from your perspective, why are these principles good for business and what tangible advantages can organizations gain by fostering those diverse and inclusive cultures? Adonica: Yeah, I absolutely believe in the business case for diversity equity and inclusion. There have been so many empirical analysis and studies around how the increase of diversity equity and inclusion that are measured by those indicators we talked about has also correlated with the increase of financial performance, employee engagement, employee retention, um innovation, all of those things that lead to stronger, a stronger business. I also think about just from a practical standpoint where we are in the world, where we are as a kind of a global culture. One of the recent data points that I've heard that really has stuck with me is the wealth transfer that we're facing as at least as a nation. Um and I think likely globally within the next decade as that and and it will be the largest wealth transfer in our in history, right? So as baby boomers transfer their wealth to kind of the millennial generation, that huge transfer of finances will lead to different people having stronger purchasing power. And I do think younger generations absolutely make decisions based on values in addition to finances. And so for a business to be able to succeed into that next generation, businesses need to think strongly about their value system and demonstrate those values because those younger generations are very much evaluating based on performance and action, not just on words. So I think that it's very clear when you think about does a business survive into the next decade into the next millennium, that diversity equity and inclusion will remain a a value system through which people evaluate whether they're gonna be a customer. So to be a successful business, those values need to be authentic and practice and grow. Bareeq: Well said, I love that especially the the tying the wealth transfer in the generations to come to DEI. Fantastic. Thank you, Adonica for sharing your valuable insights today. It's been such an enlightening conversation on diversity and inclusion and the impactful work you and LexisNexis are doing. And to our listeners, thank you so much for joining us on Inclusivity Included. Stay tuned for more inspiring conversations with leaders shaping the future until next time. Adonica: Thank you so much.  Outro: Inclusivity Included is a Reed Smith production. Our producers are Ali McCardell and Shannon Ryan. You can find our podcasts on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, reedsmith.com  and our social media accounts. Disclaimer: This podcast is provided for educational purposes. It does not constitute legal advice and is not intended to establish an attorney-client relationship, nor is it intended to suggest or establish standards of care applicable to particular lawyers in any given situation. Prior results do not guarantee a similar outcome. Any views, opinions, or comments made by any external guest speaker are not to be attributed to Reed Smith LLP or its individual lawyers. All rights reserved.

In this episode, we delve into the critical intersection of law and technology, exploring the multifaceted landscape of digital accessibility. Joining Bareeq Barqawi, Reed Smith’s DEI talent development analyst, are three distinguished panelists: Angie Matney, counsel in the Entertainment and Media Industry Group at Reed Smith; Jamie Dean, senior corporate counsel on Microsoft’s Accessibility Regulations team; and Ken Nakata, an accessibility consultant with Converge Accessibility and a former U.S. DOJ attorney. Discover key legal considerations, collaborative challenges, and proactive measures for enhancing accessibility in the digital landscape with our insightful panel.

Pariti Sutaria, organizer of TEDxRutgersCamden and graduate student at Rutgers School of Business, joins Iveliz Crespo and Bareeq Barqawi to discuss the fascinating world of TEDx speaking and event organization. Join us as we delve into the intricacies of preparing for and securing a coveted spot on the TEDx stage. Discover behind-the-scenes insights into curating powerful, thought-provoking talks that resonate with a global audience. Whether you're an aspiring speaker or simply curious about the magic that makes TEDx events unforgettable, this episode is your backstage pass to the TEDx experience. Stay tuned to gain valuable insights from Pariti that will inspire and inform, exclusively for our dedicated community of Reed Smith attorneys and staff.

LEADRS and PRISM are Business Inclusion Groups (BIGs) at Reed Smith that represent individuals with disabilities and persons in the LGBTQ+ community, respectively, whose members face a common challenge: the issue of disclosure. Persons in the LGBTQ+ community and those with disabilities – particularly of the non-visible type such as mental illness or neurodiversity – may struggle with publicly disclosing the very aspects that underlie their diversity. That is, people with disabilities and those who identify as LGBTQ+ may struggle with the decision to reveal such information in their workplace for fear of stigma, hostility, judgment, and/or retaliation. According to various studies of persons with disabilities and LGBTQ+ individuals in the legal profession, the concerns they face are similar. The struggle with self-disclosure is one of the reasons that support from management and peers in the workplace – whether through community events, available resources, affinity, or BIGs – is so crucial. Further, this places particular importance on allyship – where people who do not necessarily have a disability or identify as LGBTQ+ become part of the support network. We are delighted to have a number of individuals from PRISM and LEADRS discuss the considerations they have addressed in relation to their journeys regarding self-disclosure, how the landscape in the legal profession has changed, what needs to improve in the future, and how we get there. Our host Iveliz Crespo is joined by guests Jonathan Andrews, Jessica Parry and Erin Guna.