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KCRW's Second Opinion
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KCRW creates & curates music discovery, NPR news, cultural exploration and informed public affairs. From Los Angeles to around the world, KCRW.com.
KCRW creates & curates music discovery, NPR news, cultural exploration and informed public affairs. From Los Angeles to around the world, KCRW.com.
Unprofessional Behaviors: Catching Bad Habits Early
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KCRW's Second Opinion
Medical schools must address unprofessional behavior early, as student misconduct often predicts future disciplinary issues and patient harm.
03:56
How ‘The Day God Saw Me as Black’ shaped Aunjanue Ellis-Taylor’s youth
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KCRW's Second Opinion
With a career spanning decades, actress Aunjanue Ellis-Taylor consistently demonstrates a commitment to storytelling that infuses depth, nuance, and authenticity into each of her performances. Her talent has garnered multiple award nominations — including an Oscar nomination for her portrayal of Oracene Price in the critically acclaimed 2021 film King Richard and a near-concurrent Emmy nod for her role in the HBO series Lovecraft Country. Ellis-Taylor’s more recent endeavors include her emotionally captivating performance in Ava DuVernay’s 2024 feature Origin, and an equally commanding supporting role in RaMell Ross’ Nickel Boys — released later the same year.
More: Aunjanue Ellis-Taylor on holding back emotion, justice in Nickel Boys, and her family’s connection to the Jim Crow South (The Treatment, 2025)
For her Treat, Ellis-Taylor shares a deeply personal reflection on the profound influence of the D. Danyelle Thomas book of essays The Day God Saw Me as Black. The book powerfully echoes Ellis-Taylor’s own experiences growing up as a queer woman in the Baptist Church in southwest Mississippi, where she faced the twin challenges of entrenched misogyny and the expectations of women’s subservience. Thomas’s work offered Ellis-Taylor a profound sense of validation and comfort, articulating the unspoken struggles, emotions, and resilience of Black women with authenticity and truth. Ellis-Taylor contributed the book’s foreword, highlighting how its message resonates deeply with her spiritual and personal growth.
This segment has been edited and condensed for clarity.
I want to talk about a book called The Day God Saw Me as Black — a new book by [D.] Danyelle Thomas. It is a book of essays about her experience of being a woman, a young woman growing up in the church, and her path to finding herself in a space that maligned her, that rejected her, that refused her whole self.
That book means so much to me because it is a reflection of how I felt growing up in the Baptist Church in southwest Mississippi and feeling, particularly as someone who was a queer woman, knowing that I was attracted to other girls, and also feeling like I don't understand this misogyny that's happened. Why? Why do women have to be subservient to men? Why do women have to submit themselves to a man? And being eight years old and thinking that.
The Day God Saw Me as Black by author D. Danyelle Thomas. Photo credit: Row House Publishing
She has an incredible mind, Danyelle Thomas. I learned about her during lockdown. I did a film called The Clark Sisters, and she was able to talk about the minds of those women. I think that's kind of what I wanted – trying to do a little bit, you know? And what I'm doing is not to be a product of what you think is my talent, but I want to be an expression of my mind. People portray Black women like they don't think.
It tarries in, as a church term, it tarries in a Black woman's mind, the unspoken, the unsaid, that place that she doesn't want you to reach, but it is hers and hers alone.
So this book is the language for how I felt as a child, and it's my Treat.
05:21
Amy Sherman-Palladino and Dan Palladino tell us all about ‘Étoile’
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KCRW's Second Opinion
Despite many arguments to the contrary, TV-powerhouses Amy Sherman-Palladino and Dan Palladino don’t think they have a “brand.” The Emmy-winning creators of the beloved series Gilmore Girls and The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel have instead latched onto one producer’s broader description: “spiky and eccentric.” They’ve certainly applied these sensibilities to their latest show, the Prime Video series Étoile, starring Luke Kirby and Charlotte Gainsbourg. The series centers two ballet companies — one American, one French — that exchange their star dancers in an attempt to boost ticket sales and publicity.
As part of a lengthy chat with The Treatment, the pair tells us about wanting a theme song for the series, how there’s something in ballet for everyone, and why filming in Los Angeles needs to be easier and cheaper.
46:46
Ramy Youssef on how essential animation is for ‘#1 Happy Family USA’
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KCRW's Second Opinion
Ramy Youssef won a Golden Globe and a Peabody for creating and starring in the Hulu series Ramy, a show about the American Muslim experience in the wake of 9/11. Now, the comedian and actor lends his creativity (and his voice) to the new Amazon Prime Video animated series #1 Happy Family USA. The new show centers many of the same poignant topics as Youssef’s acclaimed live action work.
Youssef voices the characters of Hussein Hussein, an Egyptian-American husband, and Rumi, his son. The edgy comedy introduces us to a New Jersey family as they navigate being Muslim in the midst of their many white neighbors. Youssef chats with NPR’s Eric Deggans about his interest in exploring the Muslim experience after 9/11, which has also been central to his standup and his storytelling via Ramy. “I realized I had so many stories from that era and how that entire time … has been mainly captured through one lens, maybe two,” Youssef says. “And for me, there's a real draw to touching on some of this, because it does end up where a lot of people feel really seen from a totally different angle.”
Youssef also opens up about his experience of working in animation for the first time, and learning from the show’s co-creator Pam Brady (one of the minds behind South Park). Youssef admits to knowing very little about how animated shows are made, and tells us how much he relied on Brady’s expertise to craft #1 Happy Family USA. “I didn't think that I would make an animated show. I kind of found myself with a series of ideas that felt like they could only be an animated show in order to cut the way that I hoped they would,” Youssef explains. “It really was very iterative for me to be with [Brady], because it reminded me of a lot of early sketch comedy stuff that I used to do with my buddies growing up in Jersey.”
“#1 Happy Family USA,” series still image. Courtesy of Prime Video. Copyright: Amazon Content Services LLC.
23:32
Why are Republicans so far apart on a new tax bill?
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KCRW's Second Opinion
Cracks within the GOP turn the “Big, Beautiful Bill” into a mess. President Trump visits the Middle East. Plus, Democrats’ past and future collide.
51:10
Cautious optimism at the ports after tariffs dry up business
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KCRW's Second Opinion
Port business slowed to a trickle after Pres. Trump’s imposition of a 145% tariff on Chinese goods. Even with a lower tariff, the uncertainty is hard on trade.
04:15
Will LA City and County clash over separate homeless agencies?
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KCRW's Second Opinion
LA County supervisors approved a plan to create a county-only homeless agency after years of joint partnership with the City of Los Angeles.
04:01
Anaheim destroys historic German heritage sign amid renovations
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KCRW's Second Opinion
Anaheim officials tore down and replaced its “Willkommen” signs that paid homage to the city’s German immigrant founders. Longtime residents say the wooden planks were a piece of important history.
04:32
That Message to Your Doctor Might Come With a Price Tag
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KCRW's Second Opinion
Digital communications are playing a larger role in health care, but transparency and equity are being forgotten.
03:45
Ari Kolender wraps up a perfect Mother's Day dinner — fish en papillote
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KCRW's Second Opinion
Ari Kolender has been shucking shellfish for the last 20 years. He also happens to operate two of Los Angeles's most popular seafood restaurants, Found Oyster in East Hollywood and Queen St. Raw Bar & Grill in Eagle Rock. His inspiration for the home cook comes in the form of How to Cook to the Finest Things From the Sea .
Evan Kleiman: I love how you say that to have success with seafood and fish at home, "Do less." Can you elaborate?
Ari Kolender: The whole idea of writing this book was to make sure that people understood they don't need to do a bunch of crazy things or buy a bunch of crazy ingredients to make good fish and shellfish. You're taking a good product and making sure you don't mess with it too much in the way of handling it as well as how much you need to put on top of it or with it.
Can you talk a little bit about the difference between the flesh of fish and seafood and other land-based proteins?
In regards to "do less," the flesh of fish is much more delicate than a piece of steak or chicken or a pork chop, way less forgiving. So especially if you're taking something that is whole then butchering it down — taking the skin off, taking the pin bones out — you've handled it so much that you just need to be delicate. You need to take your time. Then when you're cooking it, especially in the pan, turning it over multiple times, on a grill or in a pan, it's gonna just start tearing at the flesh. Whereas with a piece of steak, keep on going back and forth to get that nice sear.
Why is cooking method important to consider when you're shopping for your fish or seafood?
Good question. [In the book], we broke it down in a way that we talk about how you're going to cook something and then decide what you're going to buy. That's all to say that if I know I'm going to go outside, it's a beautiful summer evening, and I'm going to light up the grill, I'm going to look for something that's maybe a little bit more of a stickier texture than a nice, soft white fish per se.
There's a recipe in the book called Swordfish Hemingway that's built perfectly for that nice summer evening, so you can cook the whole thing on your grill outside. If you just take a little pan out there with you, that flesh will hold up to a nice, high sear. You want to get good grill marks on that kind of fish, but if you take, let's say, a rockfish or a cod and put it on there, you can't grill that at that same high temperature. It's just going to tear at that flesh.
Tell me how the Hemingway happened. What does that mean in terms of the name of that swordfish recipe?
It's a play off of an old recipe from a classic Charleston cookbook, Charleston Receipts . This is a collection of high society folks over time that put their favorite things in there. There's one recipe called Chicken Hemingway, so it's a play on that. The idea for the chicken is that overnight you marinate it in some sherry, butter, garlic, and thyme, and the next day, you stick it in the oven and bake it. So we have taken the flavors from that and made a nice sherry butter sauce with garlic and thyme, some shallots, and we make that sauce on the side while cooking the swordfish.
I think one thing that prevents people from cooking more fish and seafood at home is they worry about how to source it, where to get it. What are three simple ways to be sustainable when we're sourcing fish and shellfish?
You should always be looking to buy something that was caught in American waters, they're the most regulated waters in the world. If you can't find that, then staying in this hemisphere, or this region is best. I think you always want to check to see too, what's caught locally, if you have that option. The other thing is just being conscious of price. I'm not saying that you can't find a good deal on seafood, but usually, if something is really inexpensive, something bad probably happened somewhere to get it to you that way.
Yeah, I really feel that fish and seafood is an example of you get what you pay for.
Yes, the dollar oyster bar is never a good deal long term.
Let's talk about your Five Layer Crab Dip because it looks like a perfect party trick, and it seems relatively simple. Can you describe it?
This is one of those things, I like to say that we're giving away some of the secrets here, this has been on Found Oyster's menu since the beginning. It's so good, we haven't bothered changing into another crab dip. We spike Kewpie mayonnaise with, if you can find it, a bitter juice from Japan called kabosu (it kind of tastes like grapefruit and lime; it's very bitter but has great acid) as a trick to circumvent having to find something crazy and fancy. You can achieve the same effect by juicing limes, but also grating some of the zest into the mayonnaise. I like to take the zest a little farther than most people and get that white pith because that bitterness helps in this umami flavor profile with the sweetness of the crab and the spice of the togarashi. And we supreme Meyer lemons and add chives on top. Those are your five components to the dip.
Supreming the lemon segments is probably the trickiest step.
I would imagine. We put a cute little diagram in there to show people, if they want to give it a shot. But if you can get the skin off of the lemon, you could also cut them into pinwheels and just deseed it, cut it, chop it up as you'd like from there.
I think people should learn how to supreme. It's not that hard.
That is also a good party trick.
It's really fun once you get into it. I am a huge tinned fish aficionado. I tend to get insane and spend way too much money. So right now, I probably have 30 cans of different kinds in my cupboard. How long does tinned fish last in the pantry?
I've never seen it expire. I've opened stuff after 10 years, and it's been potentially better.
Yeah, there are some people who pride themselves on aging it. I would say occasionally turn it over.
That's a great tip.
Ari Kolender didn't grow up eating seafood but he's been cooking it for the past 20 years. Photo by Justin Chung.
Make me lunch using tinned fish.
This is the easiest thing to do, and honestly, I love to eat tinned fish for breakfast. I make just simple bread, butter, and anchovies all the time. One of my favorite versions of this in the city is at Gjusta . I cannot go there without ordering that dish. But there are so many ways to use tin fish.
There's one recipe that's in the stovetop section that is some Rancho Gordo beans that have been braised long and soft. We add cans of mussels and escabeche to it at the end. It's kind of one of those things that the flavor from everything else that's in the can, not just the mussels, amps up the beans so much, it's really hard to recreate that.
That sounds so delicious.
Back to lunch, there's another recipe in the book that's very simple and easy, and it's just your basic avocado toast but introducing a can of tomato sardines to the top of it, a few olives, and some dill and parsley scattered over as well.
I love this. This is giving me inspiration, because, to be perfectly honest, sometimes I just eat it over the sink. So tomato pudding is a classic southern dish. How do you doctor yours up?
We bring the anchovies back for this one. This might be one of my favorite recipes in the book. It's very special. It is not really done very often, and I've only seen it in one place growing up, a restaurant called the Hominy Grill , that is no longer around, but they do have a cookbook, and there's a version of this in there.
I started cooking it during the pandemic, and my wife and I loved it so much that we just always had a cast iron full of it, and we'd make it as a side to dinner, but then bring it back out for breakfast and put an egg on it. Soon enough, the anchovies came out. So this recipe calls for filets of brown anchovies to dot the top of the pudding.
Yum. One of the things I really love about your book is what you call cooking "en papillote," cooking in paper. It's such a great technique for fish cooking, and it makes things super foolproof. What is your spring edition of cooking in paper?
For our spring edition, we're relying on all the things I love — snap peas, asparagus, olives. To give it a little bit of punch, we add some evergreen things like oregano and garlic as well. The best part about this is that you can make it your own. Anything that you can put in there is going to do very well.
It's funny, because this edition is the most cooked thing out of the book right now. I see people doing it every week, including my parents and my in-laws. My father-in-law had us over for dinner a couple weeks ago and surprised us by making his own version of this recipe. And he absolutely crushed it. He did such a good job.
I love that. We're airing this interview on Mother's Day weekend, so if someone listening has a seafood-loving mom, what would you recommend they make for her?
Oh, yay, mom! Congrats. As much as I hate to be a broken record, I do think the fish in paper is a great choice. I say that too, because the last thing you want to do on Mother's Day is be in the kitchen and not be able to hang with mom. This is something that is just all prep work. It's fast, it's easy. You can make these early in the morning, wrap them up, put them in the fridge, then when mom comes over and you're ready to eat, you put them in your oven for 15 minutes and it's dinner time.
What do you serve with it? How would you set that up as a meal?
My favorite thing to do is a nice, big salad that has nuts and shaved vegetables and a ton of herbs in there, a nice, punchy dressing, and a starch is great, like a rice or a potato, whether it's like a smashed potato or just boiled potatoes. I like to think of anything that's on the table could be put into that package once it's opened up. And you can slide the potatoes or the rice around and catch some of that jus from the fish and the olive oil and the lemon.
"How to Cook the Finest Things From the Sea" is divided into techniques and applications. Kolender suggests you decide on a cooking method before you buy your seafood. Photo courtesy of Artisan Books.
FISH IN PAPER
Baking fish in a parchment paper packet is one of the easiest and most forgiving ways to cook a piece of fish. Plus, you can load your packet up with seasonal vegetables to make a complete one-pan meal. The pouches can be prepared up to about 3 hours in advance and chilled in the refrigerator. After that, all you have to do is roast them in the oven and then transfer the pouches directly to dinner plates. It creates a little bit of a show when everyone cuts open the parchment and watches the steam escape (while also keeping the meal warm until right before you eat).
All the following recipes easily double or triple for a crowd, with multiple sheet pans placed in the oven.
You can easily make your own version, using the recipes as a template—just keep in mind that you will always want to use vegetables that respond well to very light cooking. And avoid starchier ingredients like potatoes.
FISH IN PAPER, spring edition
Let’s face it, spring is the sexiest season for vegetables. Fresh green spring vegetables taste especially flavorful after a long winter. This version of fish baked in paper might be one of my favorite recipes, highlighting the best of spring with green garlic, snap peas, basil, asparagus, and Meyer lemon. The juices at the bottom of the parchment are so delicious that a hunk of crusty bread to soak them up is borderline mandatory.
Ingredients
1 Meyer lemon (or regular lemon), plus wedges for serving
12 snap peas, stems removed
12 pitted Kalamata olives
1 bunch asparagus (about 10 spears), tough ends trimmed, halved crosswise
1 tablespoon olive oil, plus more for drizzling
1-ounce (30 g) green garlic, bulb and tender greens (see Notes), sliced into 1/4-inch (6 mm) ring (about 1/4 cup)
2 thyme sprigs
1 teaspoon fresh oregano leaves
1/4 teaspoon crushed red pepper flakes
Flaky sea salt
2 skinless fish fillets (6 ounces/170 g each), such as cod, halibut, rockfish, or other mild and flaky fish (see Notes)
4 basil sprigs
Freshly ground black pepper
Crusty bread, for serving
Directions
Slice the lemon, creating 4 rounds that are each 1/4 inch (6 mm) thick, and remove the seeds. Set the slices aside. In a medium bowl, combine the snap peas, olives, asparagus, olive oil, green garlic, thyme, oregano, pepper flakes, and 1 teaspoon flaky sea salt. Give it all a good toss.
Cut two parchment sheets that are each about 14 inches (35 cm) long. Fold the sheets crosswise down the center, then open them back up. Season each piece of fish with salt, then lay each fillet just offset from the center crease. With a brush or your hands, lightly coat the fillets with some olive oil. Top each fish with a lemon slice and the basil, then evenly divide the vegetable mixture between the two pouches, allowing some of the pieces to sit on top of the fish and others to fall to the side. Pour any remaining juices from the bottom of the bowl over the fish as well.
Fold the parchment back over the fish, then fold that first corner (from one edge of the folded crease) into a short, hard edge (see How to Fold a Parchment Paper Packet, page 155). Continue folding short, hard creases all the way around in a semicircle, until you get to the last corner. Fold that corner down, to keep it airtight. Place the pouches on a sheet pan and cook them right away, or transfer the entire sheet pan, with the pouches, to the refrigerator until you are ready to cook and serve but no longer than 3 hours.
When ready to cook, preheat the oven to 425°F (220°C).
Roast the fish until the parchment has puffed up and the fish is cooked through and has an internal temperature of 120° to 130°F (49° to 54°C), about 10 minutes.
Place the pouches directly on serving plates and warn people to be careful of the steam as they open them. Serve with flaky sea salt, pepper, lemon wedges, and crusty bread alongside.
NOTES
The recipe easily doubles to serve 4.
If you don’t have green garlic, you can substitute 2 garlic cloves, thinly sliced, plus 2 whole scallions, sliced into 1/4-inch (6 mm) rings.
For a full list of possibilities, see Mild and Flaky Fillets (page 24).
Excerpted from How to Cook the Finest Things in the Sea by Ari Kolender (Artisan Books). Copyright © 2025. Photographs by Justin Chung.
FISH IN PAPER, summer edition
The best of summer comes alive here, playing off the flavors of a classic Southern succotash. Corn, shishito peppers, okra, and Fresno chiles wilt in parchment with the fish, all while cherry tomatoes, basil, and summer squash get marinated raw and then poured over at the end, creating a bright, fruity, refreshing, herbaceous, and lightly spicy meal that is perfect for the warmer months.
Ingredients
1 medium zucchini or summer squash, about 12 inches (30 cm) long (4 ounces/115 g), sliced into thin coins
10 cherry tomatoes, halved
8 large fresh basil leaves, sliced into a 1/4-inch (6 mm) chiffonade, plus 2 whole leaves for the fish
3 tablespoons olive oil, plus more for the fish
1 tablespoon fresh lemon juice
1/8 teaspoon crushed red pepper flakes
Flaky sea salt
Kernels from 1 ear of corn
7 to 8 medium shishito peppers (about 2 ounces), sliced into 1/2-inch (13 mm) coins
7 to 8 medium okra pods (about 2 ounces), sliced into 1/2-inch (13 mm) coins
1/2 Fresno chile or red jalapeño, seeded and finely diced, or an additional 1/8 teaspoon crushed red pepper flakes
1 large or 2 medium garlic cloves, thinly sliced
2 skinless fish fillets (6 ounces/170 g each), such as cod, halibut, rockfish, or other mild and flaky fish (see Notes)
Lemon wedges, for serving
Directions
In a medium bowl, combine the zucchini, cherry tomatoes, basil chiffonade, 2 tablespoons of the olive oil, the lemon juice, and pepper flakes. Season it with a healthy pinch of flaky sea salt. Give it all a nice toss and then set it aside to marinate and soften while you cook the fish.
In a large bowl, combine the corn, shishitos, okra, Fresno chile, garlic, and remaining 1 tablespoon olive oil. Season with a pinch of flaky sea salt and stir it until well combined.
Cut two parchment sheets that are each about 14 inches (35 cm) long. Fold the sheets crosswise down the center, then open them back up. Season each piece of fish with salt, then lay each fillet just offset from the center crease. With a brush or your hands, lightly coat the fillets with some olive oil. Evenly divide the corn mixture between the two pouches, spooning it over the fish. Place a whole leaf of basil on each piece of fish, then pour any remaining juices from the bottom of the bowl over the fish as well.
Fold the parchment back over the fish, then fold that first corner (from one edge of the folded crease) into a short, hard edge (see How to Fold a Parchment Paper Packet, page 155). Continue folding short, hard creases all the way around in a semicircle, until you get to the last corner. Fold that corner down, to keep it airtight. Place the pouches on a sheet pan and cook them right away, or transfer the entire sheet pan, with the pouches, to the refrigerator until you are ready to cook and serve but no more than three hours.
When ready to cook, preheat the oven to 425°F (220°C).
Roast the fish until the parchment has puffed up and the fish is cooked through and has an internal temperature of 120° to 130°F (49° to 54°C), about 10 minutes.
Place the pouches directly on serving plates and cut them open carefully. Being mindful of hot steam, peel back the paper. Dividing evenly, spoon the zucchini and tomato salad over the tops, pouring in any remaining juices. Serve immediately, with lemon wedges.
Excerpted from How to Cook the Finest Things in the Sea by Ari Kolender (Artisan Books). Copyright © 2025. Photographs by Justin Chung.
13:28
Known for his ancient grains, Larry Kandarian says farewell to the farmers market
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KCRW's Second Opinion
Recognized by his wide brimmed hat and ponytail, Larry Kandarian has been bringing ancient grains like einkorn, tef, and Ethiopian blue tinge farro from San Luis Obispo to the market for the last 15 years. Putting his mechanical engineering degree to good use, he helped design the USB port for Raytheon back in 1970 and worked on the computer test set for the first space shuttle.
Eickhorn, Ethiopian blue tinge farro, and this Tibetan black barley are a few varieties that Kandarian grows on his farm in San Luis Obispo. Photo by Gillian Ferguson.
With dirt under his fingernails from farming as a child, Larry was recruited to work for Bodger Seeds by a professor of his from Fresno State. He started designing machinery. He recalls growing flowers across their 57 ranches. "We were growing everything red, white, and blue, because '76 was a bicentennial," he says.
He pivoted to grains in 2007 during the recession. Larry always exhibited a willingness to experiment with trials of seeds with approximately 1,000 varieties at Kandarian Organic Farms . Larry's last day at the Santa Monica Farmers Market will be Wednesday, May 14 before retiring to Michoacan with his wife.
08:12
How a daughter made her mother a viral Korean cooking star
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KCRW's Second Opinion
There's nothing like watching a home cook who has been cooking for their entire life do their thing in the kitchen. That’s just one of the pleasures of watching the woman who has become Umma or Korean Mom to millions of social media users. Her daughter, Sarah Ahn , has documented hundreds of cooking sessions with her mom, Nam Soon Ahn and along the way many have learned a cuisine and gotten to know the multi-generational household. Their new cookbook is Umma: A Korean Mom’s Kitchen Wisdom and 100 Family Recipes .
Evan Kleiman: I am such a fan. I am on Tiktok, and I don't love a lot of the cooking videos that go on there, but from when I saw the very first one that I saw of yours, I knew that something was very, very different with your entire approach. Your relationship with your mother is very tender, mega respectful and so intimate, and all of that manages to come through while the viewer can clearly see what's happening in the pot, that is not easy to do.
Sarah Ahn: Thank you for recognizing that. I would say our relationship is very close, and I always say the theme of Ahnest Kitchen is the richness and the ordinary in capturing those fleeting but intimate moments.
Did you start your blog before you started videoing?
Yeah, Ahnest Kitchen first started as a blog, and it's kind of where it all started. I've always loved writing and talking about the Ahnest life, and I shared my recipes there. Then I went onto social media in 2022 or 2023.
Your mother is the spine of this whole endeavor, both your video channels and now the cookbook. Tell us about her, what role cooking has played in her life. Has she ever been a restaurateur or worked in a restaurant? And who did she learn from?
My mom used to own a restaurant here in Orange County. She had it for a little over 10 years, and it had decent success. She was the cook, the cashier. She did everything, and it provided a roof over our heads for quite some time. But as with anyone who owns a restaurant, it tears apart your family. It's a lot of work. It's not as fun as it sounds. So she was really cooking for survival and making recipes and food that could sell and make people want to come back. It was really a survival type of lifestyle that we look back on and don't want to ever experience again.
She most certainly grew up with women, particularly her mother, but back then in Korea, every woman cooked, so she was always surrounded by that. She was always told by her own mother, who was a very well known cook back in Korea, that my mom has sonmat, and sonmat is the "taste of the hands," but in more meaningful translation, it means someone who has a talent for cooking, a natural intuition.
"Umma: A Korean Mom’s Kitchen Wisdom and 100 Family Recipes" documents the countless recipes made in Sarah Ahn’s viral videos with her mother, Nam Soon Ahn. Photo courtesy of America’s Test Kitchen.
And someone for whom, once you eat a lot of their food, there is a signature set of tastes. The hand. I love that. Can you take me back to the first time you filmed your mother cooking, and was she super open to it?
She was very open to it. She doesn't really notice that the camera is there. That doesn't mean I'm filming her without her consent because she knows I'm there and I'm filming her. But when she's cooking, she's in her element. It's like seeing a very talented dancer dance, and a ballet dancer just do flips and twirls. Their only focus is on that. That's the same exact thing with my mom. When she's cooking, nothing else exists in that moment but her hands and the food and the ingredients in the pot.
It's amazing to watch that level of expertise. It's rare. It's really rare. And you're so lucky to get to learn from someone like that. Does she let you help her or has she taught you? Do you feel confident cooking on your own?
It's interesting, because in the book, there's an essay in there about her mother. I asked my mom, did you ever learn this recipe from our grandma? And she said, grandma always told me, "I'm not going to teach you this recipe because I don't want you to live a life like this."
Back in Korea, when they're always cooking for the means to survive to get through harsh winter months, and when I asked my mom if she could teach me these recipes, she always tells me, "I'm going to teach you these recipes because I want you to have them and for you to have memories of me through these foods. But I hope that you don't have to cook so hard and work so hard in life to have to survive through these foods."
So she always has a little bit of hesitance, just because that's kind of our upbringing and background. But she's always been excited to share it with me so that we could share it with the world.
"It's like seeing a very talented dancer dance," says Sarah Ahn (right) of watching her mother cook and move around the kitchen. Photo by Kritsada Panichgul.
I have to say, and I'm sure I'm not alone in this, that some of my favorite videos are when she's packing food up for your brother. For someone who has never seen these videos, can you describe what goes on, the amount, but the love. She's so workman-like, she's so focused and matter of fact and not effusive. But the love that underpins these videos is just so moving.
Yeah, those videos, it's basically what my mom packs my brother, who works up to 80 hours a week because he's a resident, is overworked and barely has time to cook. Then there's another series — what my mom packs my dad, who works as an exterior painter, often working under the hot sun. In those videos, she packs them a lot of food, I'm talking a table full of food for them to last a week for my brother or for my dad for his lunch.
She wakes up every day at 4:30 a.m. to pack my dad's lunch, and she cooks everything fresh. For my brother, she will spend the three days before he comes home just cooking everything, kimchi from scratch, fried foods from scratch, and she would freeze it for him, and packs all of them in individual containers. He has essentially meal-prepped food for the entire week that was handmade, made with love by my mom, where she worked up to 12 hours that day to pack him those foods.
I'd love to talk about the food. We're here in Southern California. Nearly everybody listening who is in Southern California has experienced Korean food. I live very near LA's Koreatown. There are many cuisines that I have tackled in my life, aside from my expertise, Italian food. Korean food, I've made pickles. I love making winter radish pickles. But I have to say that I've been reticent to throw myself in because the idea of having to learn a lot of sub-recipes is something that I just know I don't want to take a lot of time for. So I was wondering if you could throw some recipe ideas from the book at us where everything is included in one recipe so we don't have to start with pickling something a month ago.
With the pickled recipes in our book, we also have options where you can buy the pickled product itself first and then just season it from there. But we do make a caveat that if you do that, it's not going to taste as good as when you pickle it yourself.
Of course not.
But there are a lot of recipes in our book where you can make it from start to finish in that one sitting, like one-pot recipes and whatnot. But we do have a whole pickle section.
Which is amazing! The chili pickles. I know that's the first thing that I'm gonna make. Can you describe them?
Yes, the chili pickles. So my mom plants these green peppers in our yard every year, and they grow in abundance. My mom pickles them and they last in our fridge for over three years. They're pickled so well with this perfect brine that makes them last a very long time. Once you pickle them, it's in a soy sauce brine, it just marinates it so beautifully. You have the crunch of the pepper but you also have the spice of the pepper then you have this sweet soy sauce blend that's infused into it.
My mom pierces the pepper with forks so that the flavor goes into it, and then you can eat it as is, as a pickle, or you can marinate it in this spicy marinade and then enjoy it as a banchan, which is a side dish. I actually brought this marinated banchan pickled green chili peppers to ATK [America's Test Kitchen]. I literally traveled from California to Boston in my suitcase with a huge jar of pickles. The test cooks at Cook's Illustrated were just stunned by its flavors because it was so nuanced and complex.
There's nothing like that time, right? Time is the element.
Yes, yes, it is.
Nam Soon Ahn makes an instant kimchi that is ready to eat within a day. Photo by Kritsada Panichgul.
So let's start out with some kimchi but kimchi that we can make and eat pretty soon, not so much that we have to age.
Oh, yes. There's instant kimchi. For one, the kimchi that we're most familiar with, the one you get at Korean barbecue and Korean restaurants, that's called Napa cabbage kimchi. In our book, we call it mat kimchi. You can eat it as soon as the next day. It's developed in that way so that you can enjoy it with everything because that's the daily kimchi that we're most familiar with, the one that we have most often. So that's something you can enjoy probably after 24 hours.
After that, it's going to ferment a bit. And then after that, there's other kimchi in there, such as perilla kimchi, where you marinate perilla leaves in the spicy blend, and you can enjoy that as soon as possible. As well as cucumber kimchi and whatnot. We also do include kimchi that requires more fermentation if you want that richness taste and the traditional taste.
There's a cucumber kimchi that starts with these pickled cucumbers that look extraordinary.
Yes, yes.
One of the things I love about how your mother cooks is she has so much technique that is very apparent that you often don't see in home cooks. How she deals with fruit and onion juices and how she refers to the onion juices as juices is kind of fascinating to me. Could you talk about the role of the fruit and the onion juices in her cooking?
Yes, she uses Fuji apples, onions, and Asian pears to create a lot of marinades and to create a juice out of them that is like this sweetener versus just using sugar when you have fruit juices, she told me, it adds a much more multi-dimensional sweetness to a dish. It's more nuanced. It's more complex. I think maybe someone who is new to cooking can't taste those differences but someone who's appreciative of food will notice those differences when they taste that depth.
What she does is she either blends the Fuji apple, onions or Asian pear in a blender, then she puts it through a cloth strainer and juices it out so that you get this pure, smooth juice. I asked her, when I see other online Korean cooks make this, especially the Korean Americans, they don't put it through a strainer. She was like, no, no, no, Sarah. Everyone in Korea, a lot of them are putting it through a cloth strainer because there's a significant difference with it.
For example, when you make LA galbi, it's most often you use these fruit juices, and people just blend it up, put the whole blend with the pulp and everything in there. She told me when you do that, what happens is that the meat is going to cook at a different rate, where the meat is going to not be cooked fully but the outside is going to burn because we didn't take out that pulp and all that sugar is crystallizing and burning now. But when you put it through a strainer, you're making it extremely smooth, so that when you cook the meat, the meat is going to cook at a great rate, with that sweetener not burning.
I love how there are times in the book where you describe how you think your mother is going a step too far. And you say, why can't you just do it the simpler way? And she sort of takes it as a challenge, and she does a tasting for you, side by side.
A/B testing, and she always proves me right.
No, she always proves you wrong.
Proves me wrong. Right. She always proves me wrong. And I realized, mom is always right, why am I questioning her?
The first dish I'll probably make from the book will probably be the spicy braised tofu.
Oh, that's a great one.
A sauce is made from a blend of Korean pantry ingredients in a spicy braised tofu dish. Photo by Kritsada Panichgul.
I love eating tofu in this way, and your version just looks so good. Can you quickly take us through the steps?
So spicy braised tofu is, first and foremost, that's a great first pick. It's essentially where you use a firm block of tofu, you season it with a little bit of salt, then you pan fry it until it's just lightly going brown. While you're pan frying it, you make the sauce. It's a blend of Korean pantry ingredients, gochugaru, Korean red pepper flakes, a little bit of sweetener, a little bit of onion and fresh peppers and whatnot. You whisk up the sauce, and as the tofu is cooking, you pour the sauce in. Then you braise the tofu so that the sauce goes into the tofu. The tofu cooks up extremely plush and tender but it's braised with this brilliant gochujang sauce.
It's a sauce that my mom tested many times to perfect. By the time that you're done, you just have a whole skillet of just this vibrant red tofu that you didn't know tofu can be enjoyed this way. And whenever we make this, and my followers have made it, they told me they eat the whole thing before it even lands on the plate.
I can imagine that.
Yes, because it's so addicting. If you can't finish it all, you can put it in the refrigerator and it tastes just as if not better. It tastes better cold.
All the fried rice recipes look so good but there's one that you say is the quintessential Korean pantry dish, the egg rice with avocado.
Yes, gyeranbap. Every Asian, I think we all have our own variation of it, where you mix soy sauce with rice and some egg, however you like it cooked. But the Korean version, we use sesame oil and soy sauce and whatever leftover rice you have. Scramble your egg, whatever way you like it. We like it scrambled. But my mom's extra touch to it, because we were raised in California, she adds avocados. And that's something we hadn't seen within other Korean households but it goes to show you just how each cook adapts to wherever they are.
The next recipe in the book is spinach fried rice. She has a technique where she uses a paper towel to sop up the extra moisture that the spinach throws off. She dabs it in the pan and soaks it up. I think her food at the restaurant must have been amazing because this kind of attention to detail, to concentrate flavors, is very interesting.
Yes, and that's also to keep the rice crispy, so that the spinach doesn't dilute the rice. That's a brilliant recipe. Thank you for recognizing that.
What does your dad think about all this?
He's extremely proud. He's also confused as well, just as my mom is, because they're so confused of how people can relate to us. We live a very, very ordinary life where, like I mentioned earlier, my dad paints and my mom used to be a former restaurant owner. We're not extravagant. We're not doctors or engineers or in these "prestigious careers." I say that in quotes. My parents are confused why people are able to resonate with us. Because in Korea, to not be in this prestigious job, they're often shunned upon. So they're confused with how people are able to celebrate and resonate as ,which is, in a way, heartbreaking, but they're also so happy that they're being recognized for their hard work.
I just want to say that I think what you've done is really extraordinary. First of all, your videos are just, I'm gonna start crying, your videos are so moving and wonderful, and watching your mother is such a joy. So that is an amazing accomplishment. Very rarely does a "Tiktok star" translate to a book that is a real cookbook that has heft and rigorous recipes. So kudos really to you and the ATK team.
Thank you so much.
Spicy Braised Tofu (Dubu Jorim) 두부조림 (doo-boo joh-rim)
Serves 4 Total Time: 35 minutes
Sarah 세라 This is one of a few banchan I have a hard time not eating completely all by myself. It truly is one of my favorites. Whenever Umma made this sweet and spicy dish, you would find me wandering into the kitchen and slowly nibbling away at it, piece by piece. Before I even realized it, there would be only two or three pieces remaining. Umma would always laugh and affectionately yell, "Ya! Did you eat this all yourself?" To which I would respond, "Yes, sorry, it was too good!" Too good is arguably an understatement, since this dish transforms mild tofu into a flavorful banchan full of irresistible contrasts: the light fried crust of the tofu set against its plush interior, with sweet, spicy, and umami flavors unfolding in your mouth. And, like most banchan, it also happens to taste great either hot or cold. In my family, we don't reheat this if serving leftovers. It tastes just as amazing, if not better, when cold, especially since the flavors have had a chance to be further absorbed by the tofu.
Umma's Kitchen Wisdom It's very important to not overcook the tofu. If it's overcooked, the tofu will be tough to chew and won't taste good at all, especially as cold leftovers. Some people prefer to leave the sauce thin so it can be mixed into their rice bowl, so feel free to reduce the sauce in step 4 to your desired thickness.
Ingredients
2 tablespoons water
2 tablespoons corn syrup
2 tablespoons maesil cheong (plum extract syrup)
1½ tablespoons soy sauce
1½ tablespoons fish sauce
1 tablespoon toasted sesame oil
1½ teaspoons minced garlic
1½ teaspoons gochugaru
½ Fresno chile, ribs and seeds removed, chopped fine
½ jalapeño chile, ribs and seeds removed, chopped fine
2 tablespoons finely chopped yellow onion
1 green onion, chopped fine, divided
1 (14- to 16‑ounce / 397- to 454-gram) block firm tofu
⅛ teaspoon fine salt, divided
1 tablespoon neutral cooking oil
Pinch black pepper
Directions
1. Whisk the water, corn syrup, maesil cheong, soy sauce, fish sauce, sesame oil, garlic, and gochugaru together in a bowl. Stir in the Fresno chile, jalapeño, yellow onion, and half of the green onion. Set the sauce aside.
2. Rinse the tofu and pat dry with paper towels. Halve the tofu block lengthwise, then cut crosswise into ½‑inch slices. Arrange the tofu in a single layer on a paper towel–lined plate. Pat the tops dry with additional paper towels, then sprinkle with a pinch of salt.
3. Heat the neutral oil in a 12‑inch nonstick skillet over medium high heat until shimmering. Arrange the tofu salted side down in the skillet. Sprinkle with the remaining pinch of salt and cook until light golden brown, 3 to 5 minutes per side.
4. Add the sauce and cook, constantly spooning the sauce over the tofu, until the sauce has thickened and begins to coat the tofu, about 2 minutes. Remove the skillet from the heat and sprinkle with the remaining chopped green onion and pepper. Serve. (Refrigerate for up to 1 week.)
Reprinted with permission from Umma: A Korean Mom’s Kitchen Wisdom and 100 Family Recipes by Sarah Ahn & Nam Soon Ahn , copyright © 2025.
17:23
James Mangold talks ‘Sweet Smell of Success’
Episode in
KCRW's Second Opinion
James Mangold — freshly minted Best Director Oscar-nominee — occupies a fascinating space in the Hollywood firmament. A contemporary of auteurs like Quentin Tarantino, David Fincher, Paul Thomas Anderson, and fellow CalArts alum Tim Burton, Mangold has carved his own niche which can best be described as “elevated journeyman.” Mangold moves deftly between genres, delivering films whose strongest connective tissue lies within the effectiveness of his filmmaking, and just how good he is at telling stories in a visual language.
Mangold directed a 24-year-old Angelina Jolie to a scene stealing performance (and Best Supporting Actress Academy Award win) in 1999’s Girl Interrupted. He did the same for Reese Witherspoon in 2005’s Walk The Line. His 2017 entry into the X-Men cinematic universe — the stealth Western Logan — is often cited as a pinnacle of the superhero genre. And his 2024 Bob Dylan biopic A Complete Unknown overcame a litany of advance skepticism to emerge as a box office hit — and nab eight Oscar nominations in the process. It was also critically acclaimed and met with a notable degree of approval from Dylan’s famously opinionated fanbase.
More: Director James Mangold + costumer Arianne Phillips on their big designs for ‘A Complete Unknown ’
For his Treat, Mangold recommends the “glorious and beautiful” 1957 film Sweet Smell of Success; a movie that he believes that everyone should seek out, but especially writers, directors, and actors. He also offers a glimpse into his mentorship with the film’s director Alexander McKendrick.
This segment has been edited and condensed for clarity.
Hi, this is Jim Mangold, and this is The Treat: [the 1957 film] Sweet Smell of Success, written by Clifford Odette and Ernest Lehman, directed by my old mentor Alexander McKendrick, starring Burt Lancaster, Tony Curtis — and many others — with music by Chico Hamilton and Elmer Bernstein.
It is a swinging film. It has taught me so much about writing, about storytelling, about characterization… about how you don't need anyone in your movie to be good, to make them compelling. You can [just] make a movie about desire, need, avarice, greed, longing…
I was 17 [at first viewing] because I’d just gotten to CalArts up in Valencia, and Sandy McKendrick — the director — was there in residence. It was shown in the first week as kind of representative of his work. I saw that movie, and I was like: “I gotta work with that guy.” He only worked with master's students, and I was fresh out of high school, but I clawed and I scratched until I ended up becoming his teaching assistant for several years. He was a really great friend and a huge and important teacher in my life.
It is also just beautiful black and white locations in New York City in the late 50s — [shot by cinematographer] James Wong Howe — it is a glorious and beautiful film. I can't advocate it enough if you're a writer, if you're a director, or an actor. It's also, in my opinion, Tony Curtis’ best movie because he's playing someone [that’s] probably close to something going on for him inside… Burt Lancaster, as well, is just demonically powerful in the movie. And that's it, that's my Treat.
05:08
Filmmakers Anna Boden and Ryan Fleck talk ‘Freaky Tales’
Episode in
KCRW's Second Opinion
Anna Boden and Ryan Fleck have been writing and directing together for close to two decades. They gained early acclaim for indie films including Half Nelson and Sugar. In 2019, they moved confidently into the MCU with the blockbuster Captain Marvel. They also were executive producers on the FX series Mrs. America, for which they received a Primetime Emmy nomination.
Their latest project is Freaky Tales, inspired by 1987 Oakland and starring Pedro Pascal, Jay Ellis, and a little known actor named Tom Hanks (in a cameo). The duo tells The Treatment about getting rapper Too Short — whose song inspired the title — to appear in the movie, the importance of making the film in the Bay, and about creating different looks for each of the movie’s chapters.
18:30
Kerry Washington gets us excited to check out her boat driving skills
Episode in
KCRW's Second Opinion
Emmy-winner Kerry Washington often embodies steeliness and emotional strength. Think: signature characters like crisis management expert Olivia Pope on the series Scandal and real life public figure Anita Hill in the HBO film Confirmation. In her honest and unflinching 2023 memoir Thicker than Water, she displayed great fortitude in revealing a family secret that challenged her identity and sense of belonging. Through her newest project, the action film Shadow Force, Washington taps into her physical strength, playing a member of an elite special forces group who must go underground to protect her family.
Washington tells The Treatment about loving the physicality of her latest role (she’s particularly proud of her newfound boat driving skills), about how her life and her acting changed after learning her family’s secret, and how public television saved her family.
29:19
Weekend film reviews: ‘Clown in a Cornfield,’ ‘Friendship’
Episode in
KCRW's Second Opinion
The latest film releases include Clown in a Cornfield, Friendship, Fight or Flight, and Absolute Dominion. Weighing in are Witney Seibold, senior writer at SlashFilm and co-host of the Critically Acclaimed Network, and Katie Walsh, film reviewer for The Tribune News Service and The Los Angeles Times.
16:36
Artists bring sparks of life to Altadena’s burn area
Episode in
KCRW's Second Opinion
After the Eaton Fire, experimental art space Trade School brings music and performance back to Altadena, to make sure artists are not “erased from the space.”
04:37
Soil testing in fire zones reveals toxic material left behind
Episode in
KCRW's Second Opinion
Toxic material in burn scars remained even after cleanup, an investigation found. Do homeowners feel safe rebuilding?
07:23
New home, same grief: KCRW staffer on 4 months after Palisades Fire
Episode in
KCRW's Second Opinion
Fires tore through Pacific Palisades and Altadena four months ago today. KCRW's Adria Kloke, who went on air while she evacuated, shares an update.
04:54
Some Democrats might join Trump and GOP’s aims to nix climate programs
Episode in
KCRW's Second Opinion
Trump and Republicans are trying to end the Energy Star program and stop California from phasing out the sale of new gas vehicles. On EVs, they enjoy some Democratic support.
17:35
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