Out of Plaece Podcast

In this episode of Out of Plaece, hosts Ann and Paul interview with Dr. Christopher Jones, aka Dr. X, a Vice Principal at Durham University, UK and activist, discussing his journey from professional basketball to academia to championing why “everyone has to matter”. We explore themes of Equity, Diversity, Inclusion, and Love (EDIL), emphasising the importance of rehumanisation in society. Dr. X shares insights on navigating personal identity, relationships, his connection to spirituality and the impact of historical erasure, especially on the black community. The conversation highlights the significance of self-discovery and the core value that “everyone has to matter”, advocating for a more compassionate and understanding world. In this episode, you’ll find out: * Why is he called Dr. X * What ‘rehumanisation’ means and how you can practice it * Why does he include Love at the end of Equity, Diversity and Inclusion or EDIL * The importance of understanding your own history and how historical erasure has impacted awareness of black contributions to society * His spiritual beliefs and how changing religious beliefs can leave you feeling out of pla(e)ce * Why does “everyone has to matter”, especially when you disagree with their point of view It’s a brilliant conversation and a great way to start our series of guest interviews. Ann & Paul P.S. We’re moving to a fortnightly cycle for our episodes, so keep an eye out every two weeks. We’d love to know what you think of this discussion, any of the topics we covered or your experience of feeling out of pla(e)ce. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit outofplaece.substack.com

Trigger Warning: This episode contains discussion of suicide, which may be distressing. Listener discretion is advised. In this deeply moving episode of Out of Plaece, we explore the profound impact of suicide on personal identity through the eyes of co-host Paul, who shares his journey of loss, grief, and healing. Paul opens up about the day that changed his life forever, the complexities of navigating trauma following the loss of his partner, and the struggle to reclaim his sense of self amidst a society that often misunderstands such experiences. This episode is a heartfelt exploration of vulnerability, the burden of performance in healing, resilience, the impact of COVID-19 on his recovery and the ongoing journey to find one's place in the world. Join us for an honest conversation that sheds light on the often unseen layers of grief and identity transformation. If you or someone you know is struggling with suicide loss or suicidal thoughts, please reach out to your respective crisis support: * Australia: Lifeline 13 11 14 * United States: Suicide & Crisis Lifeline 988 * United Kingdom: Samaritans 116 123 Additional Resources * National Alliance on Mental Health (NAMI) * Breathwork Organisations (both the organisations below provide accredited practitioners using science-backed and safe practices): * Oxygen Advantage * School of Breath Science For more on Paul’s personal journey. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit outofplaece.substack.com

This intensely personal episode features me (Ann), co-host of Out of Plaece, sharing my journey from a bullied child to a corporate leader who learned to embrace my differences as strengths. I open up about growing up as the daughter of Vietnamese refugees, navigating a school system and environment where I felt like an outsider, and later entering male-dominated industries where I adopted an inauthentic leadership style just to progress. The conversation explores how I learned to "play the corporate game" by modelling masculine leadership behaviours, and suppressing my natural instincts for empathy and connection. My breakthrough came when I transitioned into tech companies, where I witnessed female leaders leading authentically with heart, permitting me to do the same. What you’ll hear in this episode: * The Cultural Code-Switching Challenge - the exhausting reality of living between two worlds, speaking Vietnamese at home and English at school, while feeling pressure to choose one identity over the other due to bullying. * The Corporate Masculinity Trap - Adopting an impersonal, domineering leadership style that treated people as metrics. The discussion explores why women often feel compelled to compromise their authentic leadership qualities in order to succeed. * Workplace Inequality Beyond the Gender Pay Gap - I share stark realities, including experiencing sexual harassment and the exhausting cycle of having my ideas dismissed until a male colleague presents the same concept. * The Refugee Family Survival Mindset - Growing up with parents who were Vietnamese boat people, I describe how their trauma-driven focus on security and safety meant we learnt how to survive rather than thrive. * The Breakthrough Into Authentic Leadership - Witnessing female leaders who led with authenticity rather than corporate personas. As leaders, we can humanise workplace relationships by giving people agency, creativity, and permission to bring their whole selves to work. This episode of Out of Plaece reminds us that our differences aren't obstacles to overcome, but superpowers waiting to be unleashed when we find the courage to lead with authenticity. Your Turn Have you ever felt caught between two worlds—whether cultural, professional, or personal? What changed, or what did you learn, for you to start leading with your authentic self? Share your story in the comments below. Your experience might be exactly what someone else needs to hear today. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit outofplaece.substack.com

Before we begin: Yes, this is episode 5 and not 3 as stated at the start of the video/audio. We decided to flip the order of episodes 🤪 _ _ _ _ _ In another personal episode, we strip back the Instagram-perfect facade of the "power couple" to reveal what it actually takes to work with your romantic partner. We share surprising insights about how naturally our collaboration has evolved, despite spending virtually every moment together: living, working, gym sessions, and even meditation. The conversation dives into the critical importance of setting boundaries when your relationship and business life completely merge, from protecting creative flow states to maintaining individual identity within a partnership. We also share more about our feelings of being "out of place" with Paul seeking a more heart-centred approach to leadership, and Ann as a first-generation immigrant climbing corporate ladders. Our journeys have definitely shaped our mission to create space for others who don't fit traditional moulds. In this episode, you'll hear about: 1. How Personal Triggers Show Up in Business - Processing conflict with curiosity instead of defensiveness when working with your partner 2. Essential Boundaries for Couples in Business - Protecting creative flow, maintaining individual identity, and separating work from relationship space 3. The Unsustainable Truth About Hustle Culture - Why 10 days of non-stop work taught us to create our own rules for success 4. Independence Within Partnership - How encouraging each other's individual growth strengthens both the relationship and business decisions 5. Heart-Centred Leadership - Rejecting traditional CEO blueprints to lead from personal values and authentic community building For those who are considering building a business with your partner, or have romanticised the idea, we pose to you the following question: "If everything in your life came crumbling down tomorrow, do you and your partner have the tools to stand together and navigate that challenge, or would you start to fray apart?" Once again, thanks for listening. Ann & Paul x This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit outofplaece.substack.com

What happens when two people spend a decade planning to escape the "normal" life... only to discover what they really wanted was something else entirely? We've all seen the Instagram posts: laptops on beaches, sunset co-working sessions, the #digitalnomad lifestyle that looks effortlessly perfect. But what's the real story behind leaving everything behind to work remotely from paradise? In our latest episode of Out of Plaece, Ann and I pull back the curtain on our own journey: from the years of planning and sacrifices, the moment when we discovered we were both planning to head to different countries, to the reality check that hit us hard overseas. Two years in the Planning I felt it every time I returned to my desk after a trip overseas, thinking, "What am I doing here?" While Ann spent 10 years preparing, I gave myself 2 years to make it happen. The Plot Twist On our first date, we discovered we were both about to head off on location-independent adventures. Ann: "I'm going to Costa Rica." Me: "Wait... I'm going to Costa Rica too." (Spoiler: Neither of us ended up in Costa Rica.) What We Actually Learned After years of sacrifices, planning, and finally leaping into location-independent life, the biggest lesson wasn't what we expected. It wasn't about Instagram-worthy laptop-on-beach moments. It wasn't about "finding ourselves" in some exotic location. It was about something much more fundamental—and much harder to achieve than we thought. Paul x Want to know what we discovered? And why we'd still recommend it to anyone with even the tiniest spark of curiosity? WATCH THE FULL EPISODE on here, Spotify or YouTube. Sometimes the journey teaches you something completely different from what you set out to learn. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit outofplaece.substack.com

You're sharing a vulnerable story with a friend: opening up about trauma, recovery, and how it deepened your relationship. You're feeling brave for being so honest. Then they hit you with: "Are you sure you're not trauma bonding?". Ummm…say what now? This is exactly what happened to us when we started talking about the aftermath of our Thailand accident: the recovery, the family dynamics, and that brutal question that made us examine everything we thought we knew about our relationship. What You'll Hear: The Vulnerability of Being Broken * How Paul, a former pro basketball player, struggled with slowing down * The reality of becoming Ann's caregiver overnight and what that does to a relationship * Why "fighting through it" isn't always the answer and the beauty of learning to sink into difficult emotions instead 30+ Hours of Travel Anxiety * The logistical nightmare of flying home with serious injuries across three countries * Why standard wheelchairs don't work when your leg needs to stay straight * How fold-out yoga mats became our unexpected travel survival tool. Shout-out to FoldUp yoga mats! Family Dynamics Under a Microscope * What it's like watching your partner interact with their family while you're both emotionally raw * Ann's unique perspective on understanding Paul's triggers and behaviours in their original context * The gift and challenge of having your relationship witnessed by the people who shaped you The Trauma Bonding Question * Why that friend's blunt question was actually a gift * How to tell the difference between intensity and intimacy * What it really means when shared trauma reveals rather than creates your connection Why This Episode Matters This isn't just another recovery story. It's about what happens when you're forced to examine your relationship under the most vulnerable circumstances possible. When you can't rely on your usual coping mechanisms, when independence is stripped away, and when you have to figure out how to support each other through something neither of you has experienced before. We open up about the emotional complexity of trauma recovery—not just the physical healing, but the psychological work of processing what happened while building something stronger together. There's also a meaningful conversation here about family dynamics and how being seen in your most vulnerable state by the people who matter most is a gift. This episode is dedicated to our families for being there when we needed them the most and for helping us navigate difficulties with love and unwavering support. The Real Question The episode title talks about trauma bonding, but the deeper question we explore is: * How do you know if your relationship can weather a crisis rather than just survive it? * Can you love each other in the dull, quiet moments as much as the dramatic, intense ones? If you've ever questioned whether shared adversity brought you together for the right reasons, or if you're curious about what real vulnerability looks like in a partnership, this conversation will resonate. 🎧 Watch and Listen to the full episode here Have you ever had someone challenge the foundation of an important relationship in your life? Share your thoughts in the comments below. Out of Plaece is also available on Spotify, YouTube and Apple. New episodes drop on Tuesday. Follow along on Instagram @outofplaece for behind-the-scenes moments and community discussions. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit outofplaece.substack.com

You're sharing a vulnerable story with a friend: opening up about trauma, recovery, and how it deepened your relationship. You're feeling brave for being so honest. Then they hit you with: "Are you sure you're not trauma bonding?". Ummm…say what now? This is exactly what happened to us when we started talking about the aftermath of our Thailand accident: the recovery, the family dynamics, and that brutal question that made us examine everything we thought we knew about our relationship. What You'll Hear: The Vulnerability of Being Broken * How Paul, a former pro basketball player, struggled with slowing down * The reality of becoming someone's caregiver overnight and what that does to a relationship * Why "fighting through it" isn't always the answer - and the beauty of learning to sink into difficult emotions instead 30+ Hours of Travel Hell * The logistical nightmare of flying home with serious injuries across three countries * Why standard wheelchairs don't work when your leg needs to stay straight * How fold-out yoga mats became our unexpected travel survival tool. Shout-out to FoldUp yoga mats! Family Dynamics Under a Microscope * What it's like watching your partner interact with their family while you're both emotionally raw * Ann's unique perspective on understanding Paul's triggers and behaviours in their original context * The gift and challenge of having your relationship witnessed by the people who shaped you The Trauma Bonding Question * Why that friend's blunt question was actually a gift * How to tell the difference between intensity and intimacy * What it really means when shared trauma reveals rather than creates your connection Why This Episode Matters This isn't just another recovery story. It's about what happens when you're forced to examine your relationship under the most vulnerable circumstances possible. When you can't rely on your usual coping mechanisms, when independence is stripped away, and when you have to figure out how to support each other through something neither of you has experienced before. We open up about the emotional complexity of trauma recovery—not just the physical healing, but the psychological work of processing what happened while building something stronger together. There's also an important conversation here about family dynamics and how being seen in your most vulnerable state by the people who matter most is a gift. This episode is dedicated to our families for being there when we needed them the most and for helping us navigate difficulties with love and unwavering support. The Real Question The episode title talks about trauma bonding, but the deeper question we explore is: * How do you know if your relationship can weather a crisis rather than just survive it? * Can you love each other in the boring, quiet moments as much as the dramatic, intense ones? Spoiler alert: We dive deep into why we know we're not trauma bonding, but getting to that answer required examining our relationship with a level of honesty most couples never have to. If you've ever questioned whether shared adversity brought you together for the right reasons, or if you're curious about what real vulnerability looks like in a partnership, this conversation will resonate. 🎧 Watch and Listen to the full episode here Have you ever had someone challenge the foundation of an important relationship in your life? How did you respond? Share your thoughts in the comments below. Out of Plaece is also available on Spotify and YouTube. New episodes drop on Tuesday. Follow along on Instagram @outofplaece for behind-the-scenes moments and community discussions. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit outofplaece.substack.com

Picture this: You've sold everything, packed your life into a suitcase, and finally embarked on that digital nomad dream you've been planning for years. You're living in a villa in Koh Samui, Thailand, signed up for Muay Thai lessons, and settling into your new paradise lifestyle. Then you wake up to fluorescent hospital lights, the sound of beeping machines, and your partner calling your name from the bed next to you. This is exactly what happened to us. In our latest episode of Out of Plaece, we share the raw, unfiltered story of how our location-independent adventure came to a "screeching stop" with a motorbike accident that changed everything. What You'll Hear: The Moment Everything Changed * Waking up in a Thai hospital with no memory of how we got there * Paul was in a fog with a punctured lung and broken ribs for four days, while Ann was navigating a broken knee * The surreal experience of piecing together what happened while fighting through medication fog When Your Body Knows Better Than Everyone Else * Ann's persistent hip pain that doctors dismissed as "just bruising" * The frustration of being unheard by medical professionals and loved ones alike * That vindicating moment when the X-ray revealed the truth: a serious injury everyone had missed The Power of Being Seen * How dismissal can compound trauma in ways we don't expect * Why trusting your body's signals matters more than expert opinions * The relief that comes when someone finally validates your experience Why This Episode Matters This isn't just another travel mishap story. It's about what happens when life derails your carefully laid plans, when you're forced to advocate for yourself in a foreign country, and when the people around you—even those who love you—can't see what you're experiencing. We begin by sharing our vulnerability in this story: a genuine look at how couples navigate crisis, how we learn to support each other more effectively, and how trauma can actually strengthen relationships when handled with honesty and care. Plus, there's an important PSA buried in here about travel insurance that could literally save your life. The Conversation Continues This is just the beginning. We promise to dive deeper into the ongoing healing process in future episodes. If you've ever felt dismissed, unheard, or like you're advocating for yourself against the world, this episode will resonate deeply. And if you haven't experienced that yet, well, our story might just prepare you for when you need to trust your own voice over everyone else's. What resonated with you? Share your thoughts in the comments below. Out of Plaece is available on all major podcast platforms. New episodes drop Tuesday. Follow along on Instagram @outofplaece for behind-the-scenes moments. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit outofplaece.substack.com

Picture this: You've sold everything, packed your life into a suitcase, and finally embarked on that digital nomad dream you've been planning for years. You're living in a villa in Koh Samui, signed up for Muay Thai lessons, and settling into your new paradise lifestyle. Then you wake up to fluorescent hospital lights, the sound of beeping machines, and your partner calling your name from the bed next to you. This is exactly what happened to us. In our latest episode of Out of Plaece, we share the raw, unfiltered story of how our location-independent adventure came to a "screeching stop" with a motorbike accident that changed everything. What You'll Hear: The Moment Everything Changed * Waking up in a Thai hospital with no memory of how we got there * Paul was unconscious for four days, and Ann was navigating broken bones and damaged lungs * The surreal experience of piecing together what happened while fighting through medication fog When Your Body Knows Better Than Everyone Else * Ann's persistent hip pain that doctors dismissed as "just bruising" * The frustration of being unheard by medical professionals and loved ones alike * That vindicating moment when the X-ray revealed the truth: a serious injury everyone had missed The Power of Being Seen * How dismissal can compound trauma in ways we don't expect * Why trusting your body's signals matters more than expert opinions * The relief that comes when someone finally validates your experience Why This Episode Matters This isn't just another travel mishap story. It's about what happens when life derails your carefully laid plans, when you're forced to advocate for yourself in a foreign country, and when the people around you—even those who love you—can't see what you're experiencing. We open up with vulnerability in sharing this story: a real look at how couples navigate crisis, how we learn to support each other better, and how trauma can actually strengthen relationships when handled with honesty and care. Plus, there's an important PSA buried in here about travel insurance that could literally save your life. The Conversation Continues This is just the beginning. We promise to dive deeper into the ongoing healing process in future episodes. If you've ever felt dismissed, unheard, or like you're advocating for yourself against the world, this episode will resonate deeply. And if you haven't experienced that yet, well, our story might just prepare you for when you need to trust your own voice over everyone else's. 🎧 Watch and Listen to the full episode here What resonated with you? Have you ever had to fight to be heard about your own experience? Share your thoughts in the comments below. Out of Plaece is available on all major podcast platforms. New episodes drop Tuesday. Follow along on Instagram @outofplaece for behind-the-scenes moments and community discussions. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit outofplaece.substack.com

In today’s minipod (a bite-sized episode), we share the story of how this podcast came to be and why we called it Out of Plaece. Discover what the phrase ‘out of place’ means to us, how that feeling can follow you through life and why it inspired us to create something. While Paul was on a trip to Bali, writing a book, Ann had an idea that was sparked by a conversation about community and how, sometimes, it’s not about finding it but about creating it. We’re not just partners on a podcast; we’re also business partners of a tech startup called Plaece, hence the funny spelling of the name, and partners in life. An accident in Thailand (we’ll get to that next episode) prompted us to take a moment of pause, which led us down this path. We hope you enjoy our first episode. Ann & Paul x Follow us on Instagram * Out of Plaece * Ann Luong * Paul Elderkin Thanks for reading our Substack! This post is public, so feel free to share it. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit outofplaece.substack.com