The Grace Awakening: Reckoning with Abuse in the C

Guest: Diane Langberg Welcome back to Season 2 of the GRACE Awakening! In this epsidoe, we have a NEW interview with psychologist, speaker, & author Dr. Diane Langberg. Join Hannah and Laura as we talk with Dr. Langberg about denialism in the Church and what it takes to have courage in this cultural moment. Plus, Hannah and Laura give a sneak peak into this season's topics, guests, and all the things we are excited about for The GRACE Awakening! Resources Mentioned: "Suffering and the Heart of God: How Trauma Destroys and Christ Restores" by Diane Langberg "Redeeming Power: Understanding Authority and Abuse in the Church" by Diane Langberg If you enjoy the GRACE Awakening please consider subscribing and donating at ⁠⁠Netgrace.org/donate⁠ ⁠ Disclaimer: All opinions expressed by podcast guests are their own and may not represent the views of GRACE as an organization. Similarly, the presence of a guest on the podcast does not constitute an endorsement of them, their work, or any organization they represent. This podcast is also not a forum for GRACE to discuss past, present, or future investigations or engagements but rather to draw out broader themes, principles, and research around abuse in faith contexts.

Guests: Laura Thien & Wade Mullen. In this special release podcast, Robert sits down with GRACE Executive Director Laura Thien and Executive Editor Wade Mullen to pull back the curtain on our Independent Investigations. Tune in to learn how the GRACE team handles bias, what it means to be trauma-informed, and common questions we get asked by churches and indviduals about the investigative process. Resources Mentioned: The Safe Church Training Center: ⁠netgrace.org/training-center GRACE Independent Investigations: netgrace.org/independent-investigations If you enjoy the GRACE Awakening please consider subscribing and donating at ⁠⁠Netgrace.org/donate⁠ ⁠ Disclaimer: All opinions expressed by podcast guests are their own and may not represent the views of GRACE as an organization. Similarly, the presence of a guest on the podcast does not constitute an endorsement of them, their work, or any organization they represent. This podcast is also not a forum for GRACE to discuss past, present, or future investigations or engagements but rather to draw out broader themes, principles, and research around abuse in faith contexts.

Guest: Laura Thien That's a wrap! In the final episode of Season 1, we speak with the new GRACE Executive Director, Laura Thien, about her journey in abuse and trauma work and what she sees coming for GRACE in 2026. Plus, Robert, Zane, Hannah, and Laura talk about the tension of holding hope and accountability for the Church, resilience in the face of trauma, and the limited edition Selena Gomez Oreos. Resources Mentioned: GRACE Live Conversation on Lament The Safe Church Training Center: netgrace.org/training-center If you enjoy the GRACE Awakening please consider subscribing and donating at ⁠Netgrace.org/donate⁠ Disclaimer: All opinions expressed by podcast guests are their own and may not represent the views of GRACE as an organization. Similarly, the presence of a guest on the podcast does not constitute an endorsement of them, their work, or any organization they represent. This podcast is also not a forum for GRACE to discuss past, present, or future investigations or engagements but rather to draw out broader themes, principles, and research around abuse in faith contexts.

Guests: Amy Stier and Emily Petrie In this episode, Robert has attorneys Amy Stier and Emily Petrie back to recap a GRACE Live Conversation they had over the summer on adult clergy sexual abuse and answer the many questions you asked during the live webinar. You won't want to miss it! Resources Mentioned: Redeeming Power: Understanding Authority and Abuse in the Church by Diane Langberg Research by Dr. Diana Garland Consultations with GRACE If you enjoy the GRACE Awakening please consider subscribing and donating at Netgrace.org/donate Disclaimer: All opinions expressed by podcast guests are their own and may not represent the views of GRACE as an organization. Similarly, the presence of a guest on the podcast does not constitute an endorsement of them, their work, or any organization they represent. This podcast is also not a forum for GRACE to discuss past, present, or future investigations or engagements but rather to draw out broader themes, principles, and research around abuse in faith contexts.

Guest: Wade Mullen. In this episode, we have a NEW interview with author and GRACE Editor in Chief of Institutional Response, Wade Mullen. Join Robert, Hannah, and Zane as we talk with Wade about image management, the slippery slope of self-promotion, and the 4 walls of defense used by institutions and offenders when confronted with allegations of abuse/misconduct. Plus, why Wade hates acronyms but uses them anyway, and the antidote to the 4 walls of defense. Resources Mentioned: Something's Not Right: Decoding the Hidden Tactics of Abuse—And Freeing Yourself Its Power by Wade Mullen. ⁠The Weaponization of Perceptions: Part I⁠ by Wade Mullen. To support the ongoing work of GRACE, visit NetGrace.org/donate Disclaimer: All opinions expressed by podcast guests are their own and may not represent the views of GRACE as an organization. Similarly, the presence of a guest on the podcast does not constitute an endorsement of them, their work, or any organization they represent. This podcast is also not a forum for GRACE to discuss past, present, or future investigations or engagements but rather to draw out broader themes, principles, and research around abuse in faith contexts.

Guest: Victor Vieth. In this special release podcast, Robert speaks with GRACE Board Member and Chief Program Officer for Education & Research for Zero Abuse Project, Victor Vieth, live at the 16th annual Virginia Crimes Against Children Conference. Victor and Robert discuss what the Bible has to say about corporal punishment, the necessity of theological engagement on the issue of child abuse, and the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America's (ELCA) groundbreaking social message on child protection that was adopted in November of 2025. And as an added bonus, hear about Victor's encounter with Johnny Cash. Resources Mentioned: ELCA Social Message on Child Protection On This Rock by Victor Vieth Here We Stand: A Lutheran Response to Child Abuse edited by Craig Nessan and Victor Vieth Disclaimer: All opinions expressed by podcast guests are their own and may not represent the views of GRACE as an organization. Similarly, the presence of a guest on the podcast does not constitute an endorsement of them, their work, or any organization they represent. This podcast is also not a forum for GRACE to discuss past, present, or future investigations or engagements but rather to draw out broader themes, principles, and research around abuse in faith contexts.

Guest: Elizabeth Phillips. In this NEW interview, we discuss "taking the muzzel off the truth" with guest Elizabeth Phillips, the primary advocate behind Trey's Law in Texas. Join Robert, Zane, and GRACE Assistant Director, Emily Petrie, as we talk with Elizabeth about her brother's story and how it inspired the legislation that is rewriting the use of NDA's in child abuse cases. Plus, some ponderings about why Superman works a 9-5, if cats really are evil, and what it means to find hope in dark places. Resources Mentioned: ⁠Treyslaw.com NDAfree.org LiftOurVoices.org Cantbuymysilence.com Note: This interview originally took place in August of 2025 and some legislation or statistics may have changed since its recording. Disclaimer: All opinions expressed by podcast guests are their own and may not represent the views of GRACE as an organization. Similarly, the presence of a guest on the podcast does not constitute an endorsement of them, their work, or any organization they represent. This podcast is also not a forum for GRACE to discuss past, present, or future investigations or engagements but rather to draw out broader themes, principles, and research around abuse in faith contexts.

Guests: Scot McKnight & Boz Tchividjian. Interviewer: Maureen Garcia. Join Robert, Hannah, and Zane as they break down a previous GRACE Live Conversation with author and professor Scot McKnight and attorney Boz Tchividjian about the insidious use of nondisclosure agreements within churches to silence abuse survivors. Plus, how a Dr. Who villain relates to NDAs, the role of the wider-church community in stopping the normalization of confidentiality clauses, and the importance of wielding Scripture with caution.        Resources Mentioned: GRACE Live Conversation The Weaponization of Perceptions: Part I by Wade Mullen. Disclaimer: All opinions expressed by podcast guests are their own and may not represent the views of GRACE as an organization. Similarly, the presence of a guest on the podcast does not constitute an endorsement of them, their work, or any organization they represent. This podcast is also not a forum for GRACE to discuss past, present, or future investigations or engagements but rather to draw out broader themes, principles, and research around abuse in faith contexts.

Guest: Dr. Jeanne Allert. In this episode, we have a NEW interview with psychologist, speaker, author, and founder of the Institute of Survivor Care, Dr. Jeanne Allert. Join Robert, Hannah, and Zane as we talk with Dr. Allert about sexual exploitation recovery, the difference between raising awareness and "trauma drama / trauma voyeurism," and what it means to walk alongside survivors in their healing process. Plus, in our intro/outro discussion, Robert and Hannah talk about the most underrated frameworks and what trauma-informed principles look like when practically applied in a ministry setting. Resources Mentioned: The Institute of Survivor Care The Polaris Project Institute of Survivor Care Study: Survivor Perspectives on Faith-Based Practices Institute of Survivor Care: The Triune Care Model The National Landscape Shelter Map National Christian Conference on Sexual Exploitation Toward a More Trauma-Informed Church by Pete Singer Suffering and Heart of God: How Trauma Destroys and Christ Heals by Diane Langberg Disclaimer: All opinions expressed by podcast guests are their own and may not represent the views of GRACE as an organization. Similarly, the presence of a guest on the podcast does not constitute an endorsement of them, their work, or any organization they represent. This podcast is also not a forum for GRACE to discuss past, present, or future investigations or engagements but rather to draw out broader themes, principles, and research around abuse in faith contexts.

Guests: Cheryl Lerfald & Janet Magee. Interviewer: Pete Singer. In this episode, Robert and Hannah continue their review of trauma-informed care principles through a GRACE Live Conversation with Cheryl Lerfald and Janet Magee on what collaboration looks like in direct advocacy, within systems, and across systems. Plus, find out which team members from famous fandoms Robert and Hannah think have the best and worst collaboration. Resources Mentioned: GRACE Live Conversation with Cheryl Lerfald and Janet Magee Toward a More Trauma-Informed Church by Pete Singer GRACE Consultations Disclaimer: All opinions expressed by podcast guests are their own and may not represent the views of GRACE as an organization. Similarly, the presence of a guest on the podcast does not constitute an endorsement of them, their work, or any organization they represent. This podcast is also not a forum for GRACE to discuss past, present, or future investigations or engagements but rather to draw out broader themes, principles, and research around abuse in faith contexts.

Guests: Amy Stier & Leanne Mellado. Interviewer: Pete Singer. Tune in as Robert, Zane, and Hannah digest a previous GRACE Live Conversation with Amy Stier and GRACE Board Member Leanne Mellado on the trauma-informed care principle of Empowerment, Voice, and Choice. Additionally, the team discusses bravery, vulnerability, and the cost of coming forward. Resources Mentioned: GRACE Live Conversation with Amy Stier & Leanne Mellado Toward a More Trauma-Informed Church by Pete Singer GRACE Consultations GRACE Survivor Resources Page Disclaimer: All opinions expressed by podcast guests are their own and may not represent the views of GRACE as an organization. Similarly, the presence of a guest on the podcast does not constitute an endorsement of them, their work, or any organization they represent. This podcast is also not a forum for GRACE to discuss past, present, or future investigations or engagements but rather to draw out broader themes, principles, and research around abuse in faith contexts.

Guests: David Pittman & Robert Peters. Interviewer: Pete Singer. Join Robert, Hannah and Zane as they discuss a previous GRACE Live Conversation with David Pittman and past-Robert about the various dimensions of safety and how we can create safer environments and cultures in faith communities. Plus, in honor of Robert listening to himself in an old interview, we talk time-travel, practical safety measures, and wrestling through the fallout of spiritual harm. Resources Mentioned: GRACE Live Conversation with David Pittman and Robert Peters GRACE Consultations GRACE Free Safeguarding Toolkit Toward a More Trauma-Informed Church by Pete Singer Disclaimer: All opinions expressed by podcast guests are their own and may not represent the views of GRACE as an organization. Similarly, the presence of a guest on the podcast does not constitute an endorsement of them, their work, or any organization they represent. This podcast is also not a forum for GRACE to discuss past, present, or future investigations or engagements but rather to draw out broader themes, principles, and research around abuse in faith contexts.

Guest: Karen Swallow Prior In this episode, we have a NEW interview with speaker, author, and literature professor Dr. Karen Swallow Prior around post-institutionalism, the loss of virtue in leadership, and whether the failure of the Westernized Church spells out the death of Christianity or an opportunity for reformation. Plus, Robert, Hannah, and Zane discuss classic literature, the difference between a mob and a movement, and how a new Star Wars show demonstrates various dimensions of moral courage when it comes to staying or leaving a toxic system. Resources Mentioned: On Reading Well: Finding the Good Life Through Great Books by Karen Swallow Prior You Have a Calling: Finding Your Vocation in the True, Good, and Beautiful by Karen Swallow Prior Something's Not Right: Decoding the Hidden Tactics of Abuse--and Freeing Yourself from Its Power by Wade Mullen Toward a More Trauma-Informed Church by Pete Singer Disclaimer: All opinions expressed by podcast guests are their own and may not represent the views of GRACE as an organization. Similarly, the presence of a guest on the podcast does not constitute an endorsement of them, their work, or any organization they represent. This podcast is also not a forum for GRACE to discuss past, present, or future investigations or engagements but rather to draw out broader themes, principles, and research around abuse in faith contexts.

Welcome to The GRACE Awakening Podcast! Get to know the GRACE team (including Robert Peters, Zane Hart, and Hannah Fordice) and why a podcast may just be the right place to have complex conversations around reckoning with abuse in the Church today. Excited about what GRACE is up to? Get connected! Sign up for the GRACE Newsletter Attend an upcoming GRACE Live Conversation Donate to GRACE

Guests: Wade Mullen & Chuck DeGroat. Interviewer: Pete Singer In this episode, Robert, Zane, and Hannah discuss a previous GRACE Live Conversation with Wade Mullen & Chuck DeGroat about how toxic church systems are formed and maintained. Plus, the small cultural norms we find bothersome, the culpability of leaders in culture formation, and three stages of reckoning with toxic church systems. Resources Mentioned: GRACE Live Conversation with Wade Mullen & Chuck DeGroat. Something's Not Right: Decoding the Hidden Tactics of Abuse - and Freeing Yourself from Its Power  by Wade Mullen Walls of Silence: Protecting the Institution Over the Individual by Boz Tchividjian Consultations with GRACE Disclaimer: All opinions expressed by podcast guests are their own and may not represent the views of GRACE as an organization. Similarly, the presence of a guest on the podcast does not constitute an endorsement of them, their work, or any organization they represent. This podcast is also not a forum for GRACE to discuss past, present, or future investigations or engagements but rather to draw out broader themes, principles, and research around abuse in faith contexts.

Guest: Scot McKnight. Interviewer: Boz Tchividjian. Tune in as Robert, Zane, and Hannah break down a previous GRACE Live Conversation with our former Executive Director, Boz Tchividijian, and author Scot McKnight, about finding peace despite being caught in a toxic church system. In addition, the team tackles common fears that keep people trapped in toxic church systems, the cost of leaving, and grassroots methods of cultural change. Resources Mentioned: GRACE Live Conversation with Scot McKnight & Boz Tchividjian A Church Called Tov: Forming a Goodness Culture That Resists Abuses of Power and Promotes Healing by Scot McKnight Shattered Sanctuary: The Many Losses of Church Betrayal by Katherine B. Wiens GRACE Resources for Survivors If you find these conversations and resources helpful, please consider supporting GRACE! Disclaimer: All opinions expressed by podcast guests are their own and may not represent the views of GRACE as an organization. Similarly, the presence of a guest on the podcast does not constitute an endorsement of them, their work, or any organization they represent. This podcast is also not a forum for GRACE to discuss past, present, or future investigations or engagements but rather to draw out broader themes, principles, and research around abuse in faith contexts.

Guests: Diane Langberg & Phil Monroe. Interviewer: Pete Singer Join Robert, Hannah, and Zane as they listen to and break down a previous GRACE Live Conversation with Diane Langberg and Phil Monroe about what power is, the forms it takes, and how it can be misused in faith settings. Plus, the wisdom (or lack thereof) of bringing back Dire Wolves, the temptation to take shortcuts to power, and prioritizing legal obligations versus caring for the vulnerable. Resources Mentioned: GRACE Live Conversation with Diane Langberg and Phil Monroe Redeeming Power: Understanding Authority and Abuse in the Church by Diane Langberg Disclaimer: All opinions expressed by podcast guests are their own and may not represent the views of GRACE as an organization. Similarly, the presence of a guest on the podcast does not constitute an endorsement of them, their work, or any organization they represent. This podcast is also not a forum for GRACE to discuss past, present, or future investigations or engagements but rather to draw out broader themes, principles, and research around abuse in faith contexts.