The Modern War Institute Podcast

Late on the night of September 9, twenty-one medium-sized, fixed-wing drones entered Poland’s airspace. Several were shot down, while others crashed, some deep inside Polish territory. Later that month, a series of drone sightings were reported around airports and military installations in Denmark, even forcing a brief suspension of flights. Beyond suspicion of Russian involvement and the fact that both of these countries are NATO member states, the two incidents share little in common. But together, they offer a sense of the range of ways in which drones can pose threats. To explore those threats—and the challenge of developing systems than can both secure sovereign airspace to protect maneuver formations on the battlefield—John Amble is joined on this episode by Dr. Stacie Pettyjohn, a senior fellow and director of the Defense Program at the Center for a New American Security. The MWI Podcast is produced with the generous support of the West Point Class of 1974.

Almost since the very beginning the war in Ukraine triggered by Russia’s invasion in February 2022, the conflict took on characteristics of a technological arms race, with each side seeking to innovate to gain a battlefield advantage. As the war has continued, that contest for advantage has taken place on an increasingly rapid scale. The rollout of a drone optimized for a new mission, the development of a new tactic, an advance in electronic warfare—each of these has produced a shorter and shorter window of advantage until the other side counters it with its own innovation. In this episode, John Amble is joined by Sam Bendett, an adviser and member of the Russia Studies Program at CNA and a close observer of the way Ukraine and Russia are leveraging technological innovation in the war. The MWI Podcast is produced with the generous support of the West Point Class of 1974.

The United States is engaged in a strategic competition with China. On issues ranging from Taiwan's security to the question of which country will most shape the geopolitical order in the years and decades to come, Washington seeks to secure its objectives, promote its interests, and deter Chinese aggression. But what are China's core objectives? And more fundamentally, how does Beijing conceptualize the US-China strategic rivalry? To explore those questions, John Amble is joined on this episode by Ali Wyne, the senior research and advocacy advisor for US-China relations at the International Crisis Group and author of the 2022 book America's Great-Power Opportunity: Revitalizing U.S. Foreign Policy to Meet the Challenges of Strategic Competition. The MWI Podcast is produced with the generous support of the West Point Class of 1974.

The US Army is in a period of transformation. And much of that transformation centers on technology—from artificial intelligence and robotics to drones and directed-energy weapons. But leaning forward technologically brings both advantages and new challenges. To explore the way the Army is approaching those challenges and pursuing technology-driven battlefield advantage, John Amble is joined on this episode by Dr. Alex Miller, senior science and technology advisor and chief technology officer to the chief of staff of the Army. He describes the ways small-unit experimentation is driving change from the tactical edge, how senior leaders are rethinking the systems and processes through which the Army acquires new technology, and some of the specific military problems for which the Army is actively pursuing technology-enabled solutions. The MWI Podcast is produced with the generous support of the West Point Class of 1974.

The US government established the National Defense Stockpile in 1939 to ensure that in the event of a major conflict, there would be enough raw materials on hand to continue production of vital equipment. Since the end of the Cold War, it has steadily shrunk, now just a tiny fraction of its peak size. Moreover, while its original purpose was stockpiling materials like steel and rubber, US military systems are now dependent on a wider range of both raw materials and finished products—like rare earth minerals and the magnets that require them. And the supply chains for these items are, in some cases, controlled heavily by China. What should US policymakers do to reduce this vulnerability? That’s the subject of this episode, featuring a discussion with Dr. Morgan Bazilian, director of the Payne Institute for Public Policy at the Colorado School of Mines. The MWI Podcast is produced with the generous support of the West Point Class of 1974.

When the United States conducted Operation Midnight Hammer, a series of strikes against Iranian nuclear targets, it did so with two key pieces of exquisite hardware: the GBU-57 Massive Ordnance Penetrator and the B-2 Spirit strategic bomber. But how does the GBU-57 actually work? And what’s it like to fly this type of long-range bomber mission in a B-2? To examine those questions, John Amble is joined on this episode by Air Force University’s Dr. Melvin Deaile, a retired Air Force colonel and strategic bomber pilot with operational combat experience in the B-2.   The MWI Podcast is produced with the generous support of the West Point Class of 1974.

The defense industrial base is a critical component of US military readiness. But how should we conceptualize it in the information age, when it isn't just physical materiel like weapons, vehicles, and ammunition that are vital, but also data and software? How have globalization and the consequent emergence of long, complex supply chains extending around the world changed the way defense planning should be conducted? And at its best, what features would define a defense industrial base that is optimized for a potential large-scale, protracted conflict? This episode explores those questions and more. It features a discussion with Becca Wasser, deputy director of the Defense Program at the Center for a New American Security and coauthor of a recent report, "From Production Lines to Front Lines: Revitalizing the U.S. Defense Industrial Base for Future Great Power Conflict."   The MWI Podcast is produced with the generous support of the West Point Class of 1974.

When Russian forces invaded Ukraine in February 2022, it galvanized both NATO and the European Union, doing more to unify much of Europe than any event in recent history. But how has political and strategic unity translated to improvements of collective European defense and deterrence? Amid uncertainty about continued US support for Ukraine, which European states are stepping into leadership roles? And most broadly, after three and a half years of war, how much has the European security landscape changed? To explore those questions and more, John Amble is joined on this episode of the MWI Podcast by Ed Arnold, a senior research fellow for European Security at the Royal United Services Institute.   The MWI Podcast is produced with the generous support of the West Point Class of 1974.

For more than three years, journalists, researchers, and military professionals have sought to describe the key dynamics of the war in Ukraine and determine what they tell us about the future of warfare. One of the sharpest observers has been retired Australian Army Major General Mick Ryan. He joins this episode to share some of his thoughts about the ongoing war—and what it indicates about the changing character of warfare. He also explores the ways that lessons from Ukraine should be translated and inform our understanding of the very different strategic landscape and operational environment of the Indo-Pacific region.   The MWI Podcast is produced with the generous support of the West Point Class of 1974.

National security professionals often conceptualize a continuum of conflict as a framework to understand the wide variety of ways in which conflict can manifest itself. It extends from relative peace on one end, terrorism and low-intensity conflict, up through large-scale combat, all the way to strategic rivalry in which nuclear weapons even come into the picture. But what if that cognitive framework no long holds? In a recent article published by Foreign Affairs, Dr. Mara Karlin explored that question. A professor of practice at Johns Hopking University's School of Advanced International Studies and a former assistant secretary of defense for strategy, plans, and capabilities, she shares insights gleaned from ongoing wars, from Ukraine to the Middle East, and argues that warfare is increasingly defined by a mix of characteristics from across the continuum of conflict.   The MWI Podcast is produced with the generous support of the West Point Class of 1974.

When the Chinese company DeepSeek recently released an artificial intelligence model called R1, its surprisingly advanced capability and the efficiency with which DeepSeek claimed to have trained the model sparked a wave of discussion about how rapidly Chinese AI development was progressing. But how is the competition to achieve superior AI technologies between China and the United States shaping up? And, given that the governments of both countries envision important military applications of AI, what implications does this have for the broader US-China strategic competition? To explore these questions and more, John Amble is joined by Bill Hannas, lead analyst at Georgetown University’s Center for Security and Emerging Technology (CSET), and Sam Bresnick, a CSET research fellow.   The MWI Podcast is produced with the generous support of the West Point Class of 1974.

After twenty years of America’s post-9/11 wars and the US military’s struggle to build capable and effective security forces in Iraq and Afghanistan, there is an important discussion taking place about what role security force assistance should play for the United States in the very different strategic environment that is taking shape. Will it be a mission that we'll be required to do in order to compete with Russia and China? Or will it become tangential to our preparations for large-scale combat operations? And given the challenges we faced over the past two decades, what needs to happen to achieve better outcomes in the future? Will Reno, a professor of political science at Northwestern University, and Franky Matisek, a military professor of national security affairs at the US Naval War College, have researched the topic deeply, including conducting hundreds of interviews in the field. They join this episode to discuss their findings.   The MWI Podcast is produced with the generous support of the West Point Class of 1974.

For well over a decade, Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad managed to hold onto power during a complicated civil war involving a number of anti-regime rebel groups. And then, rebels launched a lightning offensive that saw a series of Syrian cities—including, ultimately, the capital Damascus—fall. Assad was gone and more than a half-century of rule by his family came to an end. To explore how that happened and what comes next, John Amble is joined on this episode by Natasha Hall, a senior fellow with the Middle East Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies with deep expertise on Syria.   The MWI Podcast is produced with the generous support of the West Point Class of 1974.

When Russia invaded Ukraine in February 2022, one of its first targets was the city of Mariupol. Despite being outnumbered by—and less well equipped than—their adversaries, Ukrainian defenders held out for three months. As the Russian siege of the city intensified, Ukrainian forces defended a shrinking perimeter with a command post in the Azovstal steel plant. One of those Ukrainian defenders was Sergeant Arseniy Fedosiuk. MWI's John Spencer had the opportunity to speak to him about his experience in Mariupol, and you'll hear part of that discussion in this episode.   The MWI Podcast is produced with the generous support of the West Point Class of 1974.

Writing is often treated as a peripheral activity in the military, but it is a defining characteristic of any profession—including the profession of arms. Professional military writing is the way we share information, new ideas, and creative solutions to collective problems. It’s the way we drive bottom-up change. And it’s vital if the Army is to be prepared for the challenges of tomorrow’s battlefield. On this episode, John Amble is joined by two two leaders of the Harding Project, an initiative aimed at renewing professional writing in the Army. Lieutenant Colonel Zach Griffiths and Sergeant First Class Leyton Summerlin describe the progress made since the Harding Project was launched one year ago and explain why the Army needs its people to share their ideas by writing.   The MWI Podcast is produced with the generous support of the West Point Class of 1974.

During the United States’ post-9/11 counterinsurgency operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, many US service members survived wounds that would have been fatal in any previous conflict. This was largely because of the care they received—beginning at the point where they were wounded and continuing through evacuation to medical facilities in theater and transport to military hospitals at Landstuhl, Germany and in the United States. But prolonged casualty care will be vastly more challenging in what the Army calls LSCO (large-scale combat operations) environments. To explore why—and what will be required to meet the challenges—John Amble is joined on this episode by Colonel Jennifer Gurney, the chief of the DoD Joint Trauma System, and Lieutenant Colonel Max Ferguson, an infantry battalion commander whose recent deployment experience offers insights on how this crucial issue affects tactical-level maneuver units.   The MWI Podcast is produced with the generous support of the West Point Class of 1974.

Both military practitioners and scholars believe that artificial intelligence will influence the character of war in the future. But it’s difficult to know how it will do so exactly, particularly as we look further and further into the future. Much of what we learn about that future will come from experimentation that yields lessons not just about the tools that will become increasingly important in future military operations, but the way that militaries develop them. That makes the recent experience of the Army’s XVIII Airborne Corps, which operationalized an AI-enabled software called the Maven Smart System, instructive. Emmy Probasco and Igor Mikolic-Torreira of Georgetown University’s Center for Security and Emerging Technology had direct access to observe this innovation project, and they join this episode to extract and explore those lessons.   The MWI Podcast is produced with the generous support of the West Point Class of 1974.  

Thirty years ago this week—on October 3, 1993—US special operations forces launched a mission in Mogadishu. It was part of Operation Gothic Serpent, which was aimed at capturing Somali warlord Mohamed Farrah Aidid. The mission was intended to be of a short duration. But things changed when, shortly after members of Task Force Ranger launched from their base, fighters on the ground began firing on US aircraft. The battle that ensued—which would later become the subject of journalist Mark Bowden’s book, Black Hawk Down, and subsequently a film of the same name—lasted well into the next day. In this episode, you'll hear three people who took part in that battle. Listen as they share their firsthand perspectives of the action over those two days, describing the challenges they faced, reflecting on what was required to overcome those challenges, and exploring the lessons the battle holds for future Army leaders.   The MWI Podcast is produced with the generous support of the West Point Class of 1974.

When news emerged from Lebanon recently that several thousand pagers belonging to members of Hezbollah had exploded, observers quickly began piecing together an assessment of what happened. It looked to be an Israeli intelligence operation—and a wildly successful one, both operationally and psychologically. But why did Israel pick now to conduct it? Is it likely to become just another episode in an ongoing shadow war between Israel and Hezbollah or lead to a dramatic escalation? And how is Hezbollah likely to respond to this glaring failure in its operational security? Colin P. Clarke, director of research at the Soufan Group and a senior research fellow at the Soufan Center, joins this episode to share his insights.   The MWI Podcast is produced with the generous support of the West Point Class of 1974.

Would Patton be an effective battlefield commander today? Do the characteristics of successful commanders generally remain constant over time? Or do they evolve alongside—and in response to—the changing character of warfare? And if they do change, what traits will commanders need on the battlefields of today and tomorrow? Dr. Anthony King, the author of the book Command: The Twenty-First-Century General, joins this episode to discuss these questions and more.