The Musicks in Japan

K: So lately I’ve been thinking a lot about my health and everything I have going on there. And about life with a rare and chronic illness. So I have hereditary coproporphyria, which is a blood disorder C: And hard to spell (K laughs) K: Very hard to spell. And no-one… I’ve yet to meet a doctor who’s met somebody with HCP. C: Other than you. K: Yes, other than me. C: Yeah. K: Because we went to Oregon in the United States C: Right K: Where they have the two leading specialists in the US, who specialize in HCP, and I was the first person they were meeting with HCP. It’s extremely rare. C: Yes. K: So, for me, having a really rare illness that’s chronic… it’s a little bit challenging because nobody really understands what to do for me or how to help me, so I have to do a lot of research on my own and be my own best advocate. And I think anybody with a chronic illness needs to be their own best advocate. C: Well, I think it’s an interesting case because, for HCP there is a definitive lab test. So there’s this lab test, and the lab test says that “Yep, you’ve got HCP.” So I think that your doctors believe you have HCP, but don’t know how to help you. And I think a lot of people with chronic illness their doctors don’t believe the illness, and that’s a barrier to help. K: Mmm. I think there’s also a good portion of people out there that the doctors agree that “Yes, you have this thing” and don’t know what to do when it’s chronic. C: Yeah, absolutely. K: My lupus is… lupus is really well understood in comparison to HCP C: Right K: But they still don’t know what to do for my lupus. They don’t… and I should say the treatments that they suggest, I don’t want. Like, I don’t want the steroids, and I don’t want any transfusions. For the HCP, it’s blood transfusions, and then for the lupus it’s steroids. And so I don’t like the standard treatment because of what it would do to my body. C: No, I feel the same way. Like, epilepsy there’s a lot of different treatments for it, but they all come with side effects. K: Yeah. C: And so, I think that most chronic illnesses there’s a balance between the side effects of the treatments and the effects of the illness itself. K: What I find interesting is that your epilepsy, specifically, is the difference that taking naps and valium. Like, not doing them in conjunction. Well, sometimes in conjunction. But it’s day and night for me when you take valium regularly and when you take naps regularly. C: Right. K: I feel like we have … that the frequency of your seizures are greatly reduced. C: Yes, they are. And valium is one of those things that it’s like if you go into status epilepticus, where you are having a continuous general seizure, they would inject with valium. But it’s not recommended as an anti-seizure drug because it doesn’t prevent them as well as other AEDs (anti-epileptic drugs). But, for me, the effects of those drugs were terrible. Like, they made me unable to think. From carbemazepine, I lost basically all of my teeth. I think I have four real teeth left. K: You have way more than four real teeth. C: No, no. I have lots of crowns and things. My teeth started shattering. K: Yeah, but no, I don’t want people to have this vision of you as this toothless dude. You’ve got teeth. C: I’ve had good dental work. K: Yeah. But, I think your bottom front teeth are all yours. C: Yes, those are the four ones that are all mine. (K laughs) K: So none of your molars are yours. C: None of my molars are mine, neither of my incisors are mine, and then my top front teeth is a bridge, so there’s a lot teeth that I’m K: Well, those are yours. You’ve still got the receipts. (Both laugh) C: I broke ‘em, I bought ‘em. K: Exactly! So I think it might be helpful for people to understand the type of epilepsy that you have. C: Yeah, so epilepsy has a lot of different… I don’t know if there’s different types of epilepsy, but there’s different types of seizures. So the types of seizures that I have are what used to be called “complex partial seizures” and now they’re called “focal impaired awareness seizures”. Which means that unlike in the movies I don’t fall down and just start convulsing. And I, so that’s the main type of seizure I have. I also have nocturnal seizures, which is where I do convulse, but only when I’m sleeping. K: Yes. C: And I have simple seizures. So most people have simple seizures at some point in their life. Which is just where your muscle starts twitching randomly. That’s a simple seizure. But I get those a lot. K: Yeah. C: So, and those are just not even annoying. Sometimes they’re interesting, because they do things to my muscles that I could not consciously do. K: Mmhmm. C: Like, if I have one on my thigh, my thigh will jump like 50 times in 10 seconds, with no effect on any other muscle. So it’s like “Huh, that’s kind of cool. My thigh is like wobbling.” (K laughs) So those don’t hurt, don’t have any lasting effects. But they’re indicative of a general pattern. And then there’s of course the generalized or what used to be called “tonic-clonic” seizures, where you fall down and convulse. And the “tonic” is your muscles relaxing and the “clonic” is your muscles seizing up. K: So something that I have found very interesting about your seizures are sometimes they’re connected to emotionality and emotional response, and that was something I was unaware—I’ve learned so much more about epilepsy since marrying you, since dating you and getting to know you. And it really does affect every aspect of your life. C: Yeah. And I know that as a student, too—so, a lot of kids… I don’t think that I have… because the thing with seizures is that without an EEG it’s hard to say what type is what. So I had an EEG study so that’s how I know that I have complex partial seizures and that specifically they’re temporal lobe, for the most part, but I do have some frontal lobe involvement. Yada yada yada. But I didn’t have absence seizures, which is more common in children. For them to have absence seizures where they basically just… pause… and then come back with no awareness that they were paused. And often people outgrow those. But it causes them to be evaluated as lazy and inattentive students. K: Mmm. C: So I wasn’t diagnosed with seizures until I was in my 20s. K: Yeah, the diagnosis process is hard because I wasn’t diagnosed with hereditary coproporphyria (HCP) until I was in my 30s. C: Right. K: And I wasn’t diagnosed with lupus until I was in my 30s. C: While you were in a hospital stay for a porphyria attack. K: Yes, and so for me the damage that happened to my body over those thirty years of no diagnosis was significant. C: Right. K: And I think that we… I don’t know. Something needs to change in the way that things are diagnosed. I don’t know what. I don’t have the answers, but I just think something needs to change. Maybe the spirit/energy of like “Hey, you know, something’s going on with you. I hear you saying something’s going on with you, and let’s do… let’s really get into this differential diagnosis and let’s rule things out and rule things in and do a lot of tests.” With that said, I’ve been very fortunate in my life that I’ve always had health insurance. C: Right. K: So I’ve always had the ability to go to the doctor. And so it hasn’t been an issue of access for me. Because I’ve been very very fortunate, and I do feel like I’ve been very privileged to always have good medical insurance, and to always have access to some of the top doctors, the best doctors, in the world by geographical location. Because I was able to go to specialist hospitals and see specialists in the United States, and when I was hospitalized, they did bring a specialist to come in and diagnose my lupus. So, all of that came with a huge price tag. C: Yes. K: Even with the insurance. So, to me… C: Well, I know that the bill that we were sent, most of it was paid by the insurance, was well over a million dollars. K: Yes. And so when you hear that number for a diagnosis, I feel like, without good medical insurance there’s no way that I would have been able to go through the differential diagnosis process. Because I had to be in hospital to get the diagnosis because of the different tests and the different situations that they needed my body to be in for test for certain things. C: Well, and I remember the path to you getting in the hospital, too, so, you know… you didn’t get diagnosed until you were in your 30s because when you went to the doctors they would just tell you “your complaints are irrelevant, that’s just part of being a woman, just stop complaining so much.” K: Well, and I think too I had a lot of female problems and so C: That’s what I’m saying. They just got all lumped in as cysts. K: Well, and my gynecologists were all amazing. My gynecologists never said that. My gynecologists always did a surgery on me because I had a lot of cyst issues, and so the fact that I have a lot of female issues with my reproductive system… sort of masked the main thing that the diagnosis of hereditary coproporphyria, besides you know the urine test is the way that the pain is located. And so even when I was saying I had pain in my lower left quadrant, they were saying “well, no, that’s being transmitted from the cysts you have on your right ovary.” C: Yeah, because every time they looked they found one. So I think that… I’m not saying your doctors are bad… I’m saying doctors are trained to spot patterns, and so they spot normal patterns. You know, sometimes they say, you know “If you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.” K: Yeah. C: Which only works if you live in a places where horses are dominant. So, for you, because of your genetic background, because you know, you’re genetically Ashkenazi Jewish, you’re Indigenous… both of those groups are at higher risk for porphyria. K: Yes. C: So you should have been evaluated as at a higher risk for porphyria than the general population. K: Yes. C: But I think instead, you got told “Well, the easiest explanation is that it’s just female problems.” And then wellness culture says “Hey, if you’re not feeling good, like… get out in the sun. Go for a walk. Do some exercise.” Like, all of these things that would exacerbate your condition. And then it says “Well, if you’re not feeling better from it, then you’re just not trying hard enough.” K: So, for me, I think that a crucial part of the diagnosis process is the Internet. You know, and I know everyone says “Don’t Google Dr. me” and “Don’t Google things, you won’t find new things”. This, that, and the other. I feel like, you know what, I am going to Google some stuff. Because you’re not finding out what’s going on with me. So I’m going to Google it. Get over it. I’m going to do research, and I’m going to say “Hey, I think this is what’s going on with me. Give me the tests.” C: Yes. And so K: And I don’t understand why doctors don’t just want to give people a test. Like, they make money off of it, so they’re going to profit from it. But it’s like they get exasperated and irritated. I was fortunate that my doctor didn’t. He was confused and condescending, but he wasn’t mean. C: Okay, I was going to say your doctor didn’t, because… and he was your primary care physician, and he’s probably retired but not going to mention his name… but when we Googled it, you and I, and I said “Hey, this sounds like porphyria, all of these symptoms”, and we went to him and said “We think it might be porphyria,” he laughed. K: Yeah. C: And he said “nobody has porphyria. It is not porphyria. I see you’ve been Googling.” Or something like that. And we said “Can you please test her for it anyway?” And he did, and the tests came back and he was like “Holy Crap, It’s Porphyria!” K: Yeah. C: And then he did the good work to educate himself on it and be a really good ally for you in that. K: So for me, I’ve never been one who’s afraid of firing my doctor. C: Yeah. K: How do you feel about firing doctors? I feel like people should fire their doctor more often. C: I mean, now in Japan it’s a lot easier because I don’t have to worry about insurance. But I was always nervous, like, that I’d be accused of doctor shopping or diagnosis shopping or there’s, like, a culture that says that if you see more than one doctor, then the first doctor was right and you just didn’t want to hear it. I think the last doctor that I actually fired was a neurologist who I had an appointment, and when I had been waiting for three hours past my appointment time, I left and switched to a different neurologist. K: Wow. You’re like way more patient than me. C: Well, and the normal was to wait for an hour past my appointment time. He never ever ever, not once, saw me on time. But three hours, I was just like “No.” K: Yeah, I do… so here in Japan with no appointment, I can go my doctor any day that he’s open and I’ve never had to wait more than 15 minutes. C: Yeah, my doctor, too. I have a different doctor, and I see when I go there—there’s no appointments taken, I just go there—when people come in sometimes they’ll say “Oh, I’m sorry, it’s going to take 45 minutes before the doctor can see you. Do you want to come back another day?” K: Yeah. And so in the United States, I don’t think I ever waited under an hour. C: No. K: And so for me, my 90 minutes was my cutoff when I had an appointment. So I would usually get taken into the room between 30 and 45 minutes after the time of my appointment, and then I’d wait an additional 30 minutes. C: Right. K: So, for me I always felt like, “Okay, seeing a doctor is about a two hour thing for a ten minute appointment.” And now, here in Japan, it’s so much easier. I go in, I talk to the doctor for maybe like five minutes. It’s literally like, at the most, a half hour. C: Yeah, mine’s about the same. He lives close enough … he doesn’t live… he works close enough that I can walk. I go in. I see him. I think once it was 20 minutes. The appointment takes maybe 10 minutes at most, if I have something to discuss. He takes my blood pressure, my heart rate, he tells me that once again my aortal valves are all fine, I have, you know, “no murmur” and all of that. We talk about any medication side effects, and he writes the prescription, and I’m out of there. K: Yeah. C: After I pay my six dollars. So… K: Yeah, so I’m just amazed by the difference. And in… it’s so interesting to me that a lot of expatriates don’t trust Japanese doctors. And I absolutely love my Japanese medical experience. Like, being in the medical system, and I’ve gone to the hospital, and I do take an interpreter with me when I go to the hospital because I have a doctor that doesn’t speak English, and my Japanese is nowhere good enough. So, the language thing I do see that as a barrier, but my doctor that does speak English, I feel like he’s very passive. And I do have to tell him what I want. But once I say what I want, I get it, and it’s not a problem. C: My doctor is also very passive. I think that’s Japanese medicine in general. But because I’m a math guy, I look at the outcomes. And the outcomes say that Japanese medical care is superior to American medical care, on average. So I think that there are life-saving things that could happen in the United States that wouldn’t happen in Japan, at the extreme end of things. But I think it’s like talking about, you know, “Well, what about how billionaires are taxed?” Well, that doesn’t affect most people. K: Yeah. C: So, I think if you, you know, don’t want your life saved at any cost whatsoever, then Japanese health care is better. People live longer K: What do you mean by your life saved at any cost? C: I think that in Japan, there are… you’re less likely to survive, like… I think like in the US there would be a place that if you got in an accident and all four of your limbs were amputated, and your neck was severed, they could probably still save your life. I think in Japan, you probably would just die. K: Okay… C: So I think that, like, at the K: You know there are people without legs and arms that are just fine living their life, right. C: Absolutely. K: Okay. C: That’s why I’m saying lost all four of them at the same time and, like, you’re bleeding from the neck. I’m saying like, just massive accident. K: You’re saying that you’re less likely to be kept alive in a vegetative state. C: I’m saying that in a Japanese hospital, they might not be able to get together a team of twenty surgeons to save your life. K: Oh, okay. C: The way they would in the US. K: Okay. C: Because there’s a much bigger focus on preventative medicine, so my doctor is happy that I come see him every month. K: Mmhmm. C: Because it lets him monitor how I’m doing. He looks at what my blood pressure was before, which my blood pressure is always excellent, and all of that. And I know that your doctor, because you have two blood illnesses always does blood draws and talks over with you the numbers between them when you go see your blood doctor. K: Yeah. C: And so there’s a focus on overall health and wellness, rather than fixing the illness. And I think, for me, as someone who has chronic illness and disability, that’s been more mentally healthy. Because in the US, a lot of the neurologists I encountered were like “either you take a high enough dose of anti-epileptic drugs that you never have a seizure, or you are noncompliant. And it doesn’t matter what the side effects are.” K: So, for me, I had an interesting problem in the US. I had access to too much pain medication. C: Yeah. K: And so C: And I don’t think that would be the case anymore. This was 15 years ago. K: Yeah, so 15 years ago, I had access to too much pain medication, and then here in Japan, I have access to what I feel like is a working dose and there’s no… no sign of addiction or anything… tolerance over time equals addiction blah blah blah, and so I’m able to take Tramadol every day for pain. And that’s just my lot in life for the rest of my life. And it feels very comforting for me that I’m not going to… because in the United States, for me the drug laws changed so much, and the prescribing changed so much. The reason I had access to too much pain medication is because I was going to a pain center. C: Right. K: And their whole thing, and they were set up to give high doses of opioids, and so after I had several surgeries, and after major surgery, I got kind of stuck on that loop of doing a lot heavy pain meds. I’m very fortunate that I wasn’t addicted, but it was a big concern… like, I didn’t think I could live life without high pain medications. So having… reducing the amount of pain meds that I’m taking has made me lucid again. C: Right. K: And present again, and here. But it was a battle. Because my… it affected the pain center of my brain not having it, and getting off it. So it wasn’t an issue of addiction, it was an issue of my pain tolerance had decreased so much for what I thought would be pain that I could function through versus pain that the medicine can take care of. Because I thought… I thought the goal should be to be pain free. And in Japan, the goal is to manage your pain so that you can still function. But also accept that every day, you’re going to be in pain. You have a chronic pain disorder. That’s just life. C: Right. K: And so I like the… I kind of think, for me, I feel stronger in Japan than I did in the United States because I feel like Japan, at least for me as someone with chronic illness, tells me to my face “suck it up.” C: Yes. K: But gives me the resources so that I can cope with it. Now, I don’t think that Japan is the place for everybody with chronic illness. I do think socialized medicine is the place for people with chronic illness, just because money. But for my personality and my temperament, I like being… knowing where the boundaries are and being told “We’ll help you up to this point, and then if you can’t do better than this, you’re on your own.” It helps me say “okay, I’m in horrible excruciating pain today, but I’ve got to get up. I’ve got to go to work. I’ve got to get moving.” And, I don’t know… that doesn’t sound nice, though. C: Well, I think there’s a difference. I think the US, what they were saying is “It’s possible for you to be pain free.” K: Yes. C: And you would say “Okay, I’m not pain free, can I have more pain medicine?” K: Yes. C: And they’d say “Okay, here’s more pain medicine.” And you’d say, “Okay, I’m still not pain free, can I have more pain medicine?” And then at some point, they said “Woah! You’re on too much pain medicine.” K: But they never cut me off. C: They never cut you off, but they said “Woah, you’re on too much pain medicine.” They like crept past where they were comfortable with. K: Yes. C: saying that you could be pain free, without ever telling you that. Instead they blamed you. They said “well, you’ve developed tolerance” and all of this, rather than saying, “honestly, this pain is not amenable to treatment with this type of drug.” K: Yes. C: “We don’t have the drugs that will take away this pain.” K: And so for me that feels like a cultural difference between Japan and the United States. The United States was really focused on me being pain-free, and Japan is really focused on me having functionality. C: I would say quality-of-life. K: I feel like it’s functionality. C: Yeah… it probably is. (K laughs) A lot of stuff in Japan is functionality. Of like, “Can you make it work?” K: Yes. “Can you still work?” Because it is a work-focused society. At least, here in Nagoya, my experience has been they’re very pro-work and work-focused and get up and be able to work. And so what that means is that I’ve had to get to a place, and it’s taken me a while to get to this place, to accept that I’m going to be sick for the rest of my life. C: Mmhmm. K: That was a tough one to learn. There are days I still kind of struggle with it. Because I was chasing that cure, and there is no cure for anything I have. And also having to face that every day I’m going to be in pain. C: Right. K: Every day is going to be painful. That was really really hard for me because I did buy into the fact that I could be pain-free. And that just wasn’t the case. But now, knowing what the bottom line is, and knowing what my existence is, I feel like I’ve been able to adjust and thrive. C: I feel like that, too. And you’re not at maximum pain every day. K: No, I’m not at maximum pain every day. C: So, I think that that… getting the Tramadol lets you be in less pain than maximum pain every day. So there are some days where you’re still like “Wow, I’m in way more pain,” so it can still function as an indicator that something is wrong. K: Yes. C: It can function as an early indicator that you’re a lupus flare, that you’re having a porphyria attack… or just you’re getting a cold. K: Yeah. C: So I think that in the US, the goal was to suppress all symptoms. And I found that was treatment that was given to me, too, was like “suppress all seizures”. K: Yeah. C: And I know, like from reading the literature, that if I could reduce my seizures to zero, that’s like the best outcome epilepsy-wise. But it doesn’t give me the highest quality-of-life. K: Yeah, because if you reduce your seizures to zero, you can’t think. C: Right. K: At that point, you’re just numb and kind of a flat line. And I’m not saying that this is true for everybody… C: No no no. There’s some people the drugs work fantastically. So I know that you don’t prescribe drugs in your practice. It’s not legal for you to. K: Yeah, I’m not a medical doctor. C: But you do refer to a medical doctor for people that need it. K: Yeah, I have a psychiatrist I work with. C: So, I don’t want anybody to think that we’re anti-medication. Both of us have medication that we take, as we mentioned. K: Yeah. C: Some people need medication, and it fixes everything. Some people need medication to bring things to a tolerable level, and some people don’t need medication at all. K: Yeah, and so for me I think something that’s different in the way that I practice as a therapist, at least my clients say this is different than other experiences they’ve had, is that they can say “I don’t want to be on medication”, and I’ll say “Okay.” C: Right. K: You know, I just let them know what’s available to them, and what my understanding of where the pharmacology is at, and if I think it could benefit them. And there are some people that I’ve witnessed people that take medication, and they’re completely in a better state. And I’ve also witnessed people that take medication and it has no effect. So, I don’t feel like taking medication guarantees better. And I wish that I had had that message earlier in my medical journey. And everybody was telling me “Hey, take this, and you’ll be better.” And I didn’t like chasing better, which is how I sort of developed the mantra “more good days than bad”. C: Right. K: Because that’s my goal now. Because “better” for me was just a toxic dynamic and just… it just felt like I was circling the drain. You know, because I wasn’t functioning. I wasn’t present. I was just making it from pain appointment to pain appointment, and that was it. And sometimes not even from pain appointment to pain appointment. I’d have to get supplemental appointments for pain. And I felt like my entire life had become about getting medicated, and getting my medication. C: Right. K: And now my life is more about balancing and figuring out what I need and listening to my body, and it feels healthier. And so my hope is that everybody with a long-term chronic illness would take that long-term view, and say “okay, what can I do to get my life to a place where I could do ten more years of this?” Does that make sense? C: Yeah, that makes sense. And in the US, I thought doctors kind of bully you because of the medical system. I remember one of the times you were hospitalized, you’d been in the hospital for about a week, and the doctor came in and said “She needs to have this surgery.” Said to me, when you were sleeping. “She needs to have this surgery,” and I said “She doesn’t want to have this surgery.” And they came back when you were awake and said “You need to have this surgery,” and you said “I don’t want surgery,” because the MRI had shown that you had a perforated bowel. K: Yeah. C: But, this had happened to you before, and it was microperforations that healed. It’s part of the porphyria. And they said “Well, if you don’t have this surgery, then I’m going to discharge you and say that you’re AMA. Against Medical Advice.” K: Yeah. C: And, you know, that’s not just the doctor saying “I’m gonna say you were annoying.” In the US, that meant that insurance wouldn’t pay for any of the stay. K: Yes. Which is what you told them, “If you do that, the insurance won’t pay for it.” C: Yeah. K: And he said “Well, I just want you to know how serious it is.” And then they switched from telling me to get surgery every day to, uhh, taking an MRI every day. C: Right. K: So every day they would come, and it was so… they were taking MRIs so frequently they were using a mobile MRI. C: Right. K: To bring it to my room and take it every day. Sometimes more than once a day. C: Right. So I think that in the US, there is that kind of bullying that happens because the reason that they relented when we said “well that means that the insurance won’t pay for it” is that we said “and we won’t either”. K: Yeah. C: Because they do try and, I think not all doctors, but some doctors, do try and use that to say “Look, you can either do what I say or it’s going to cost you a quarter of a million dollars.” K: Yes. C: And that just doesn’t happen under socialized medicine. Because there’s not that financial hammer to hit people with. K: So I’m not as angry at the American medical experience as you are. I don’t have any resentment or anger even though I had a couple of unnecessary surgeries that later on, research revealed to me that they were unnecessary. And they did jack me up for a little bit. I still have a lot of forgiveness for that, and compassion for where they were coming from. I really don’t believe that any of my doctors set out to harm me. C: I don’t think so, either. I think the problem is structural. But I think that I do have more upset and anger about it than you do. Because I was the observer. K: Yeah. C: I’m not saying I was hurt more. I think you were hurt more. But I think of it like my nocturnal seizures. K: Mmhmm. C: I don’t remember them. They don’t affect me, like the next day I wake up more tired than I would if I hadn’t had them K: Yeah C: But I know from talking with you K: You’ve also woken up with bruises and knots and kinks and C: Yeah, but I know from talking with you that it’s very traumatic to see them. K: Yeah. C: So, I think it’s a case where being the observer… all I’m seeing is all the bad stuff that’s happening. I don’t have your internal state. K: Yeah. C: And so, yeah, I’m more upset. I’m not upset about the way that I was treated. Like, by the medical system. I’m upset by the way that you were treated. K: That makes sense. It’s coming from a loving place, and I receive that. For me, my hope is that people listening to this… well, I’m hoping to give them hope. C: Yes. K: But it sounds very hopeless. And I feel like even in the United States, I feel like you can get good medical treatment. C: I think you can get good medical treatment. I think that sometimes you have to go through a few different systems, and I think for some things there is no good medical treatment. K: Yeah. C: And that more doctors need to be willing to say that “for this, there is no good medical treatment.” K: Yes. That I wish doctors would say. I wish they had been upfront with me in saying “hey, there’s no good treatment for you. All we can do is manage this.” C: Right. K: And really be clear with people when management is the only thing we can do. And try to stop it from progressing, and here are some things that you can do on your own… I feel like there needs to be more empowerment of the patient, and my hope is that people will advocate for themselves and become their own best advocate and say “Hey, you know what, this is what I want. This is what I’m looking for.” And, for me, diagnosis was not the miracle I had hoped it would be. C: No. K: I thought that diagnosis would lead to cure, and it did not. It didn’t even come close to leading to a cure. And it led to a lot of confusion and misunderstanding on my part in terms of what to do, because I … when I went and saw that people in Oregon, they were like “Yeah, we don’t know what to do for you, either.” C: “What do you mean, you’re the experts?” K: Yeah, and so it was really, really quite challenging that even the experts were saying it. Because I don’t want the transfusions, because they don’t help. C: Right. K: And I knew that because I had a wonderful group that I belonged to, a wonderful group of ladies that had porphyria and talked to me about their different experiences and there was one that got heme regularly, and so being able to communicate with her before and after the treatment, I was able to see that “okay, for me, that wasn’t a big enough payday.” C: Right. K: For everything that… all the side effects of the treatment, and the health risks with the treatment. So that’s another part of, for me, advocating for yourself is finding a community. C: Mmhmm. K: Of individuals who have the same illness. And I feel like, if I can find a community for porphyria, then I feel like there’s communities for other illnesses as well. And I don’t think that these communities are wonderful and perfect. Because I’ll be honest, I outgrew the community. It was really great for knowledge, and I shared my experience, and I shared my knowledge with them. But once I got the base knowledge of understanding of what I’m going to do, and how I’m going to live, I really didn’t need the group as much. C: Right. K: And so, for me, knowing how much you need and what you need was part of the process. C: I think so. I think that group helped you to kind of… reintegrate into having a social community. K: Yes. C: Because being hospitalized for so long was very isolating. K: Yes. C: Because, you know, when we were in California and you were hospitalized, we had lots of friends and things, but… K: Nobody came to visit me. C: Everybody’s busy. And visiting hours end basically at time their day is ended. K: Yeah. And so having that community did help me. And then, too, we were in Japan, and my Japanese is busted, so… and I did have some friends in Japan when we… even in those early days. But having that community gave me a safe and healthy place to talk about porphyria and talk about the different things that I was doing. And listen to them and hear them talk about what they were doing. And it was really helpful. C: Yeah, and I think it gave you a place to say “This is happening to me. Does this happen to anybody else, too?” Which let you identify “Okay, this is porphyria. This is not.” K: Yes. And so I didn’t go to a group for the lupus because I feel like the porphyria group really helped me understand porphyria, and I have a good understanding of lupus already. C: Right. K: Before I was diagnosed. C: Because your father has lupus. K: Yeah. Well… my father has never said to me that he has lupus. My mother told me that my father has lupus. C: I took your father to the VA. Your father has lupus. K: Okay. (laughs) Well, he’s never said to me. So that’s for another podcast. But because my mother told me, “Hey, your father has lupus. You’re probably going to develop lupus,” I had always looked into it and had an understanding of what lupus was. So I feel like having lupus and being aware of lupus, that changed my behavior enough that it helped my porphyria, because they have a lot of the same triggers. C: Yes. K: Like, things that will trigger attacks. So that was really helpful and lucky. I feel like, for you, with… when you were first… not so much with the epilepsy, but I feel like when you were first diagnosed with autism C: Mmhmm. K: And we were looking on the Internet for groups, I feel like it was really helpful to find out what other people’s experiences were. How was that for you? C: I think, this was back in ’99, and it was too early for there to be much of a community of autistic people on the Internet. K: Yeah. C: I think that there are a lot of autistic people on the Internet, but there wasn’t a community of them. K: But we found a couple, like, message boards. C: Most of those messages boards were populated by parents of kids with autism, which is a whole other thing that I’m not going to get into on this podcast, but I didn’t find it particularly helpful. What I did find helpful was understanding it in myself. And also seeing the… like… I had friends that I could say with fairly high certainty “Okay, if they’re not autistic, they’re very autistic-like.” K: Yeah. C: And this was before Neurotribes came out, and before autism became more widely known. It was just before the self-diagnosis questionnaire came out, so… yeah, I think now I have a lot of friends in the autism community online. And that’s very helpful. So I think at the time of my diagnosis, it wasn’t very helpful. K: Okay. C: But now it is very helpful. K: Well, I guess for me, it was helpful because you were reading a lot of really bad books. C: Yes. K: Books that I would tell you “Babe, as an expert, working in this field. Don’t read that book!” (laughs) C: Yes. K: Because you would read these books and then start telling me my experience of being your wife. C: Well because that’s one group there was. There was a group of like, people being… I forget what the exact name of it was… basically “people being tortured by their autistic spouses.” K: (laughs) And I told you that this is not my experience. You are very loving. You are very affectionate. You are very kind. And you are very generous. And I am very happily married. C: Me too. K: Thank you. I’ll take that. And so, for me, I think talking… having you to talk through these things with has been very helpful, but also having people juxtapose my experience with has been helpful. C: Yes. K: And I think, too, with epilepsy, I felt like we didn’t really have any good resources. And now we do. But back then we didn’t for your specific type of epilepsy. And I felt… sometimes I felt very alone when you would doubt that you were epileptic. And I would tell you my experience, because you’re not present for your seizures. I am. C: Right. K: And so that whole process of doubting, “Well, am I epileptic?” And I’m like “Yes, you are, don’t doubt!” And you’d say, “but I don’t think I’m having seizures”, and I’m like “I’ve been watching you have seizures.” That whole process, I’m happy that we have trust. We have a very trusting marriage and a very loving marriage. And you were able to say “Okay, I don’t remember this thing. I didn’t have that experience, but I don’t think you would make up the fact that I’m having seizures.” And then we had to develop like our own way of showing you… verifying and validating. Because, to me, as a therapist, I’m like “Don’t just trust what I say! Let’s get some sort of system in place, so that you can know this for yourself, so that it can be your own truth.” C: Yes. K: And so, for me, it’s been really helpful to have you. C: That’s really nice. Yeah. We’re a community of two. K: (laughs) Yes, we are. So, the message of today’s cast is “fight for yourself. Advocate for yourself.” Don’t… C: And recruit friends who will fight for you and advocate for you, too. K: Yeah, build your tribe. Get a village. (laughs) So for me. C: I’ll let you say that, I guess. K: For me, Twitter allows us to have a village. C: Yes, it does. K: So I absolutely love Twitter. I think Twitter is an awesome place to meet people. Umm, and get like-minded individuals together and get support and understanding. C: I agree. (K laughs) K: Thanks for listening. C: Bye bye.

K: So lately I’ve been thinking about social groups in Japan and our socialization. C: Okay. K: And, the first one that pops out in my mind is the American Chamber of Commerce [in] Japan, but that to me kind of feels like, I don’t know, like a low-key country club, because it’s… for me, it’s super expensive to belong to. C: Yes. K: What do you think? C: I think it is. K: Okay. Because how much are annual dues for an individual member? C: 75,000 yen. K: And so that’s like, roughly 750 US dollars. C: I think right now it’s closer to 700 dollars, but yeah. K: And so for me, that’s super expensive because it doesn’t even cover any of the things that you would do as a member, so to go to an event that the ACCJ is hosting, you also have to pay to do that. C: Yes. K: And the events usually run about 2,000 yen or more. C: They usually run 4,500 or more. K: Okay. Wow. Yowza. That’s expensive. That’ll add up. C: Yes. The 2,000 yen events are in an empty room, and the 4,000+ events have food, so… K: Oh, okay. So you don’t mean an empty room, you mean just members with no food. C: Yeah, that’s true. K: So I was the first one to join the chamber. And I was a member for about two or three years, I want to say. C: Umm, yeah, that sounds right. K: Because we went to the mixer together. C: Yes, we did. K: The first… it was the beginning of the year party. C: Right. K: The shinnenkai. And we both attended. And I met a lot of people that I thought were cool, and I saw some people that I already knew, and so I thought being a member would be fun, and I joined the Independent Business Committee C: That’s right. K: And so, I have a small business… they had a lot of great things that I valued, and I really enjoyed the other members. But, they held the meetings like right at prime-time client time for me, so, like a Thursday night at 6 o’clock is almost always booked for me. C: Yes. K: And, like, the 6 o’clock slot and the 7:30 slot are almost always booked, so I usually work until 9 pm. So anything that’s scheduled Tuesday through Saturday, you know, between 6 and 9 pm, forget about it. I’m not going to be able to attend. And then mid-afternoon, I sometimes I have time in the mid afternoon, like the Women in Business committee always wanted to meet like at Tuesday at 3:00. C: Right. K: And I’m booked. I have clients. I can’t, you know… I’m running my business. So I didn’t feel like there was anything, any meetings that were consistently at a time where I could go. Even like the big Women in Business Convention that they do every year. One year I took off work and went to the one in Tokyo, which was a lot of fun, and I went with your former boss and we had a great time. And… but the ones here in Nagoya, I could never attend those. I always had to choose. Either Tokyo’s event or Nagoya’s event. C: Right. K: And I would sponsor it, but when I sponsored it they didn’t always give me what they had agreed to when I sponsored, so I have nothing against the ACCJ, but I just didn’t feel like it was value added for me at the price tag that it was coming in at. C: I think a lot of the smaller members… so, I’m the treasurer for the regional chapter, so I’m the regional treasurer. A lot of the smaller company members struggle to see value in it. So in Tokyo, it’s a lot easier to see because most of the members are in Tokyo. If you’re in Tokyo, there’s several things a day that you can choose from. Here in Nagoya, there’s usually a few things a month to choose from. And sometimes as few as 1 event a month. So it is harder if you’re not a larger business to kind of… do things. K: Well, and I felt like, too, the committee heads never polled the members to see when meetings would be most convenient. Because I knew the heads of the two groups that I belonged to, and both of those could have done them on Mondays when I could have attended. C: Yes. K: And several other members were like “Yeah, Mondays would totally work for me”, but nobody was really interested, so I didn’t feel like the committees really cared whether I attended meetings. C: I think that happens a lot with volunteer organizations, especially if people pay to belong to the volunteer organization. So I’ve looked at other groups here in Nagoya, like Kiwanis Club, and Rotary, and Toastmasters and things. They just set it for whatever time is convenient for the person running it. Which, fair enough, but that does limit its usefulness for the people who are not running it. K: So what’s challenging for me is that all the leaders said “Yeah, Monday would work” for them, but they just didn’t want to. C: Right. K: And so for me, I was like “Right on, you can totally make that choice. I’m going to make the choice to leave the chamber.” C: Mmhmm. K: And so I don’t have any malice or anything, but I think … and I really was promoting the Chamber and several people from other groups I belong to are now Chamber members and all of that, because I do think that the Chamber is good for the people who can make time to attend. C: Yes. K: And I just don’t have that flexibility in my schedule. My schedule is really rigid, which I’m grateful for. C: So most of the people that I work for have that flexibility. They work for companies that give them time off to do it, or they have businesses where their hours are more flexible than yours are. Because they do things like editing or translation. There’s a few people in that. But that was not, you know, sitting in a seat with your client. K: Yes, so for me, at the beginning I was scheduling time off and not booking clients in those times and going, but I have to be honest. While I liked the people, I didn’t really feel connected to them in the way that inspired me to build close intimate relationships with anybody in the chamber. Like, I liked them all, but I don’t really have a close relationship with any of them. C: Yeah. K: And, I think had I developed a closer relationship, I probably would have stayed. Because you have some really close relationships in the chamber. C: Yeah. And I think that’s usual groups of foreigners here in Japan, is that if you have something more in common than just being foreign, it’s much easier to develop a cohesive group. K: Yeah. So what more do you have in common with Chamber members? C: When I joined and until very recently, I had in common that I was trying to promote a business that I was working for. And now, I have in common that I have an interest in business and a lot of knowledge about it. So… I notice now people want to pick my brain about business. And I like talking about it, so that’s always a balance, though, of “At what point am I being exploited?” (K laughs) K: Which you’re joking. That deadpan delivery people are going to think you’re seriously worried about the Chamber exploiting you, which you’re not. C: No, I have good boundaries. K: Yeah. So, for me, I feel like you’ve developed some friendships because you go to lunches and things outside of Chamber meetings. C: Yes, correct. K: So do you feel like that’s where your close friendships come from in Japan? C: I think the people that I know here in Japan, with one exception who is somebody who lives in Nagoya that I’ve known since we lived in California K: Since your undergrad C: Yes, since undergrad. What, gosh… at least 15 years now. K: Yeah. C: With that exception, I think that’s most of the people I’ve met, either directly or indirectly. So I’ve gone to other business-related events, like Greater Nagoya Association, and met people. So, not everybody I know is from that, but most people are tangential at least. K: Yeah. So, we also tried Meetups. C: Yup. K: And… I think you had a lot of fun at the meetup we went to. C: I had a lot of fun at the meetup we went to. We went to a café, and there were probably thirty people there, and it was a mix of Japanese people and foreign people and the point of that was to practice speaking English or Japanese, whichever was not your native language. K: Yes. C: I had a lot of fun. It was kind of a random group of people. And so I think if we had continued to go to that and seen the same people over and over, then we might have developed some relationships, but just having the same conversation several times out of “Where are you from? What are your hobbies?” and “What do you do for work”? doesn’t build much relationship. K: So why didn’t you go any other times? So I only went once because my Japanese level was too low for me to actually participate. For me to feel like I was participating during the Japanese session. Nobody was upset with how busted my Japanese was, it was just very unfulfilling for me and very time-consuming. It met on a Sunday, and so Sundays and Mondays are my two days off, and usually Mondays I’m doing paperwork or writing reports for clients. So Sunday kind of feels like my only day off. And now, being in a PhD program… C: And when I was working, Sunday was the only day that we both had off. K: And so for me, I just felt like, again, the value added. I didn’t feel like it was giving me a lot of value added. But I thought for you there was a lot of valued added. So why didn’t you ever go back? C: I think because I’m autistic. K: (laughs) What does that mean, though? C: I like people. I’m an extravert and I like people a lot. But there’s also an initial energy hurdle that I have to get over to get out and meet people. So if I have some reason to go out, then I’m happy to be out. But it’s a steep ramp to get out there. Like, if I have to grocery shopping, and then there’s an event, then going to the event is a lot easier. I’ll just go right after I go grocery shopping. But if I’m just going out to meet people that I don’t know, then there’s some trepidation about that. And that makes that kind of hill to get up to go out, harder. K: Yeah, because you went out to get to know the people at the ACCJ while I was still a member. C: Yes. K: And so, I went to several events with me. C: And, I have ulterior motives for going. I was helping to develop the company here in Nagoya, establish an office … K: But, the reason that you really liked it, though, is you felt like it could be a good base for you to make friends. C: Yes. K: Which, is why we still continue to pay privately for you to go. C: Yes. K: So, there’s some … So for me, in Nagoya, there is over 60 meetup groups, if you look at the app Meetups. C: Right. K: And now, the reason why I don’t go to meetups, because I completely believe in meetups. I think they’re amazing. I think it’s an amazing app. I love the concept. When it first hit Japan, that’s when we went to meetups, when they were first starting. There was only like, three groups in Nagoya. So, gosh, that was like, seven years ago. C: Yes, there was Meetups, and there was InterNations. And, I know InterNations still sends you things occasionally. K: Yeah. C: But, they don’t really have a lot going on. I think there’s a, not a schism, because it’s not any animosity, but there’s a difference between people who are here only temporarily, and people here permanently. K: Yeah, or long-term. C: Or long-term. And, not all groups can accommodate that. And, I think that the purpose for being here can kind of affect what you expect. So, because we’re permanent residents… I like meeting people. If you’re only here for two or three years in Nagoya, and you want to meet me, just send us an email or whatever. But, it’s hard to pony up the energy to develop a friendship, knowing somebody is going to leave in 18 months. K: Yeah, unless there’s an activity. Because, I know for Rasta, he’s really big into D&D, Dungeons and Dragons. C: Yeah. K: And he has a … There’s a local bar that hosts a Monday night game that he goes to. And I think two of the players in the group are probably leaving in a year or two. And for him, because they meet to game, it’s not a big deal. C: Oh, yeah. K: It’s just like, okay, we’ve got to make sure that we’re having more people come in. C: There are several local board gaming groups that meet to play board games in English. And then, there are also the kind of mixed groups, where it’s English speakers and Japanese speakers. And so, I think it depends on a purpose. If you’re meeting for an activity, I think it’s less important how long the people are here. You can enjoy the moment. K: Yeah, and for me, now what prevents me from doing meetups is that I would run into clients. C: Mm-hmm. K: And, so when meetups were just starting, it was such a small group that if I had gotten in and stayed in that group, then the way that I run my practice and my rules of therapy would be like, if I’m in a group, and I belong to the group, and you then join the group after me, you join being aware that I’m a part of that group. C: Right. K: But, if I seek to join a group, and there’s a client already a member of that group, then I don’t join. C: Right. K: And, most of the meetups in Japan have that possibility, the potentiality of a client being there. And, because I never confirm or deny anyone’s my client, I find that it’s easier to just not try and join these groups. C: Mm-hmm. K: And so for me, I like joining closed groups rather than open groups because closed groups allow me privacy with my behavior in the group, and also, allow clients to have a legit way of saying that they know me, other than as therapist. C: Right. K: And, I’ve been here for quite a while, over 10 years. So, just knowing me doesn’t say that you’re my client. I have a social life. C: No, we’re well-known among the English-speaking community of Nagoya, so … K: Yeah, and I’m well-known among the Japanese-speaking community, because I work with the Child Guidance Center, which is the Japanese child protective services. I work with several ward offices. I’ve testified in criminal court. And, I know several family lawyers. So, the Japanese-speaking community kind of knows who I am, and they refer to me. And so, I do work with Japanese nationals. And, I have Japanese nationals as friends, also. So, I feel like I have a good social and business awareness of me in both communities, both the national community and the foreign community. K: So, knowing me doesn’t say anything to anyone, other than, you’ve met me once before the time that you’re seeing me. How do you feel about your profile? I feel like I have a really high profile in Nagoya. C: I feel like my profile is high among long-term residents, but not as high among recent people who have only arrived recently. K: Okay. Yeah, I feel that way too, yeah. C: No matter, whether they’ve planned to stay a long time or not, if they’re recently here, they might not know me. K: Yeah, I agree. So, I find that a lot of people know of me through you. And that’s why I think of you as having a high profile. C: Mm-hmm. K: Because a lot of people will come and see me, and they’ll be like, “Hey, I know your husband.” C: I went to local university. I’m an officer in the Chamber of Commerce. I taught at one of the local schools. I think a lot of people know me from one of many ways. K: Yeah. C: And, I’m visually distinctive. K: Yeah, because of the beard. C: Yes, so, yes, so people who meet me generally remember meeting me. K: So, you like to say that you have a ZZ Top beard. C: I don’t like to say it. I have to say it, because I’m a truth teller. K: No, no, you’re not a truth teller. Liar. Liar! Your beard comes mid chest. C: Yes, it does. K: Mid chest. C: Yes. K: No, not bottom of chest, mid chest. C: Yep. K: Above areola level when you’re standing up. And so, ZZ … C: Yes, unless I look down. K: And, a ZZ Top beard, you’re creating the expectation in me, at least, that it goes down to your belly button. C: Yeah, but you know where my beard goes. K: But, I feel like it’s false advertising for people who are about to meet you. I do not describe you as having a ZZ Top beard. I describe you as looking like Santa Clause before he went gray. C: Oh, okay. K: Because you have, like, the rosy cheeks and the sparkle in the eye, and the big round belly. C: Yes, thank you for that. K: I have a big round belly, too. I love our bellies. C: I grew up in Alaska. K: Yeah, see, you’re from the North Pole. C: No, North Pole was 20 miles away from where I lived. K: Okay, that 20 miles makes a difference to us lower 48ers, not at all. C: There’s a city called North Pole, and the main road in the North Pole is Santa Claus Lane, and Santa Claus house is there. K: Yeah, so maybe you were incognito with those 20 miles, because you didn’t want people bugging you during the off season. C: So, and if you send a letter to Santa Claus, the post office actually delivers it there. K: Nice. C: So, when I was in high school, one of the activities I did when I was a senior in high school was, we answered letters to Santa. K: Mm-hmm, did you answer them nicely? C: Yes. K: Did you tell them why they might not get what they want? C: Yes, we were instructed not to promise them anything they had asked for. K: Mm-hmm. C: But, just to you know, compliment them on whatever they said they had achieved. And, I forget, there were guidelines to it, and they were not sent out before being checked. K: Yeah, I think that’s a good thing, an important thing. So, along with the open groups, there are some closed groups. I don’t think you belong to any closed groups. C: I have some writing groups that are closed, but they’re virtual. They’re not in person. K: Okay, for me, I don’t belong to any virtual closed groups. I used to. C: Mm-hmm. K: I used to belong to a closed hereditary coproporphyria … They weren’t hereditary coproporphyria only, they were just porphyria. C: Yeah. K: A closed porphyria group, and … C: And, I belonged to that one, too. K: Yeah, and I don’t, I’m not as active in it anymore. And so, like, I tried to find it the other day, because it was a Yahoo Group. C: Right. K: And, I couldn’t find it, so I don’t know if that group even still exists. And, the group that I think … So, I belong to several closed groups. I belong to the Foreign Women in Business, Japan. C: Mm-hmm. K: And, that’s a group for women who own businesses in Japan, and the group comprises members that live all throughout Japan, several of the islands, and all of that. C: So, it’s a well-named group. K: Yes. And, I really enjoy them. And I think you know some of the members. C: Yeah, I know quite a few of the members, because a lot of them are associated with the ACCJ as well, so … K: Yeah, and the reason I don’t have any … I have friendly relations with a lot of, most of the women in the group. The reason why I wouldn’t consider any of them close friends of mine is because we never see each other in person, and we don’t talk outside of the group. C: Mm-hmm. K: So for me, I consider a close friend somebody that, if I’ve met them in a group, that I would see them one on one, and that we’d communicate outside of the group. How are you defining close friendship? C: Oh, gosh, I don’t know. K: Because for you, it’s not frequency. Because, your closest friend here, how often do you guys see each other? Like, once every couple of months or so? C: A couple times a year. K: Yeah, so how are you defining close friend? C: I feel like close friend is more about the past history, and shared experience. And, the expectation of future experience. And then, too, character, because there are people I associate with that I think have despicable characters. And, if you’re one of the people I associate with, I’m not talking about you. I’m talking about that guy you hate. K: That’s so ominous and dark. That took a dark turn. I don’t think anyone hates you. C: No, no, I’m saying that I’m … Whoever I’m talking about, if you’re listening, I’m talking about the person you don’t like when I say that there are some people … K: Oh, okay, so you’re saying that your friends alert you to who the despicable people are. C: Exactly. K: Okay, so yeah. I don’t have … So, the people I’m friends with, that I think of as friends, we don’t talk about other people. C: Yeah, we don’t. K: We don’t talk about other people in the group. We don’t talk about other people in Japan. C: We don’t usually, either. I’m not saying that I talk with people about other people. K: Mm-hmm. C: What I’m saying is that, because of the ACCJ, I sometimes see people who I don’t consider friends. K: Mm, okay. C: Outside of the context of that group. K: Okay, and so, you think some of the ACCJ members are despicable people, is what you’re saying. C: I’m not necessarily saying that, because I also see a lot of people from the various universities. K: Okay, you’re saying that in Nagoya, some despicable people live here. C: Yes. K: Okay, all right, yeah. I could rock with that. C: Yes. K: I feel really fortunate, because I don’t feel like in any of the private groups that I belong to, that there are any despicable people. And, I feel like I belong to some really, really lovely groups. Because I belong to Blacks in Japan, Black Women in Japan, Black Creatives in Japan. C: Mm-hmm. K: Black Nerds in Japan … I’m sensing a theme here. C: I’m sensing a theme, too. Black noun in Japan. K: Yes, Black Mommies in Japan, Naturals in Japan. So, most of the groups I really love and have close relationships in are groups for Blackness. Groups for Black folks. And for me, it’s what you were saying, it’s having that something other than being foreign in common. C: Right. K: So, I have lots of friends who are not Black, but the majority of my friends are Black. C: Right. K: And, I’m not biased. I welcome everybody as a friend. And, I’m open to anyone. It’s just turned out that the long-term residents that I’ve known for years and years and years, all happen to be Black. C: Mm-hmm. K: And, we all belong to a group. And, I think it’s easier in these groups, because we have like, movie viewing parties. We have nights out at the club. There’s like, so many more events than the other groups I belong to. Because, I belong to Foreigners in Japan, Foreigners in Nagoya, Hello Nagoya. C: Right. K: And, those groups don’t tend to have as many events. C: No, they’re more information, so like, Foreigners in Nagoya is mostly people coming on, asking, “Where can I find this resource?” K: Yeah. C: And then, somebody who knows … Often, it’s me, I tend to answer questions in that group… will say, “Here’s where you can find that resource.” K: Yeah. C: “Here’s how you do this thing,” whether it’s “How do I throw away a couch?” Or, you know, “How do I tell the government that I’ve moved,” or whatever. K: Yeah, and so, I find that the groups with Black plus Noun in Japan, I find that there are just more events. There’s more Afro events, and then, there’s more viewing events. C: Mm-hmm. K: There’s like, during Hanami Season, there’s always a couple of … So, cherry blossom viewing season, there’s always a couple of hey, let’s go to the park and hang out under the blossoms. And, what I like about the groups is, even though you’re not Black, you’re welcome to do like, a cherry blossom viewing, or a viewing party, or a night out to listen to jazz. There are some things that you’re not invited to, and those tend to be the Black women events. And, that’s because it’s a safe space for Black women to just embrace our Blackness and our Femaleness. And so, it is only open to women who have Blackness in them. C: Yeah. K: And, some people are like, “Oh, that feels exclusionary.” This, that, or the other. And I’m like, “Yeah, it is.” C: In a literal sense, it is exclusionary, yes. K: It is exclusionary. But, it’s about having a safe space. And so for me, it’s just … I don’t know, there’s just this ability to just relax and not have to worry about anything, and just be. C: I mean, for me, if we were going to invite people over to our home, I’m not inviting all their friends, too. K: Yeah, it is very much like that. C: And so, you know, I don’t have any issues with not being invited to those events, because I think that I try my best to be unbiased. But, that doesn’t mean that other people, one, know that… and two, are convinced of that… and three, are comfortable with that. K: So, for me, it’s not them worrying about you that I’ve experienced. It’s that, we’re triggered to behave in certain ways. And so, growing up Black, I was … C: You mean triggered? Or socialized? K: I say triggered. C: Okay. K: Because for me, I was socialized, and now I’m triggered. C: Okay. K: So, when I didn’t listen to my socialization, I had racist things happen to me. C: Mm, yeah, yeah. K: So, when what I was socialized to when I was younger was, to be really aware that you must always represent Black Excellence when you’re in mixed groups, because you may be the only Blackness that those people come in contact with. C: Oh, yes, you are The Diversity. K: Yes, I’m the diversity, and understand that they’re going to believe that you represent the monolith that is Blackness. Even though Blackness is not a monolith. In my own family, we’re so diverse in how we express our Blackness. And so, that … When I didn’t believe that when I was younger is, I wanted to talk to people about the difficulty of being mixed. C: Right. K: And, I was the only person that wasn’t white in the discussion. And, after the discussion, none of those people talked to me again. And I was like, oh, snap, this is what they mean. Don’t ever think that you can be real. And, that created a bias in me and a trigger that, I have worked to overcome the bias, but the trigger is still there. I’m not sure, like, do they want the realness? C: Right. K: You know, can we be really real? C: I think that’s what I was saying earlier about getting over that energy hump. K: Yeah. C: I think that you have to trust people a certain amount to open up about some things. Or, just open up about it to everybody. K: Yes. C: And, you know, nobody wants to be the cause of other people being socially uncomfortable. Some people are perfectly willing to be that cause to accomplish other things. K: Yeah, and I feel like there’s enough open groups, that the Black Women in Japan aren’t really taking anything away from anyone. C: No, it’s not like if there was a white man in Japan group. Well … K: Shout out to all my fellow queens. Love you, girls, love my sisters. Sorry I wasn’t saying African American, please forgive me. You all know I say I’m Black. Working on it. C: And Black Women in Japan doesn’t just include Americans. K: Right. C: So, African American would be categorically wrong for most of the members. K: Yes. And so, I refer to myself as Black because I just do. But, I understand that I am African American, and if you know an American, please, please know that African American is the correct and polite term, unless they tell you otherwise. So, I think we always have to call people what they wish to be called. Because I don’t know how I would feel if people were … Yeah, I guess I do. I don’t mind if people call me Black. C: Yeah. K: Because that’s how I identify. And, I don’t mind if people say African American. Like, those two are both okay for me. That’s not the case for everyone. C: It’s for you. K: Yeah, and so, for me, I feel like I’m Black because I come… I have ancestors that come from Africa, “deepest, darkest Africa”. And, I love that about my heritage. I feel like it gives me a super power, and I absolutely love it and enjoy it. It makes me, it’s all the things that are most beautiful about me. And, some people might think that that’s a biased thing to say, but I’ve earned the right to enjoy my Blackness, and I think that’s so sad that I had to earn the right to enjoy it. C: Well, I think saying that it’s a biased thing assumes that there’s a default. And that, the default is Not Black. K: Yes, and so, I do think that other aspects of my heritage are beautiful too, because I feel like a beautiful person. I love my ancestry. I love my heritage. C: Yeah. K: I’m good with it, I don’t have any issues. C: I’m proud to be Norwegian, right? K: Yes. C: Like, my grandma was Norwegian, she made us fattigman cookies for Christmas. She spoke Norwegian. She spoke English too, to be clear. But, she spoke Norwegian as her native language, and had Norwegian books in the house, and read to us about the Norwegian trolls. So, I’m proud to be a Norwegian, but I’m not proud to be white, because that’s not really an identity in and of itself. K: Yeah, so anyway, we digress. Race is another… C: We always digress. K: Yes, I know. Digression is our jam. But, we’re going to do a different podcast about race in Japan, because it’s different than… C: Yeah. K: Being Black in Japan is very different than being Black in the United States. It’s like, being Norwegian in Japan is very different than being Norwegian in the United States. C: Yes. K: So, another … There’s a couple of other groups I want to give a shoutout to. Nagoya Friends is an absolutely amazing, amazing, amazing group. And, the reason why I sing its praise so much is because, when our son was 18 and wanting to transition from a Go lifestyle, because the majority of his social life between, I want to say 12 and 16, was a Go club, whether it be the Igo-bun, the Go Club at Nagoya University, or the ki-in, which is a Go club in Japan. C: Yeah, a private one. K: Yeah, private owned. I feel like for up to 12 to 16 … so, I know I said 18, but I want to redirect. Now thinking about it, it’s 16. At 16, he was able to hang out with Nagoya Friends and Nagoya Adventure Club, and nothing shady went on. C: Right. K: And, nothing bad happened to him. And so, for me, they’re very near and dear to my heart, because there was a significant age gap for him and most of the participants. But, they’re all such good people, that age doesn’t matter, because they’re not out doing nefarious things. They’re doing like, good, wholesome activities that anybody can be a part of. C: Yeah, so … K: So, they’re very inclusive. C: Yeah, they’re very inclusive, and a lot of people bring their kids to them. So, I don’t think the opposite of that is necessarily nefarious. Because, I know there are several groups where the focus is really, going out and drinking. K: Yeah, and his mainstay group, his main group of friends from gosh, I want to say 16 to 19, he met through meetups. C: Right. K: And, they were having a serious talk meetup where they would go, they would watch a film, and then talk about the political and social implications of it. C: Mm-hmm. K: He’s a very serious minded kid. I think graduating college at 16, he still had that, wanting that collegial conversation and deep thinking going on. C: Right. K: So, that’s why I love meetups so much, and that’s why I love Nagoya Friends so much and Nagoya Adventure Club, because while I didn’t go to those things with him, he was so safe in those environments. And I think having safe environments is cool. He still does some of the events. But not so much, because now he’s busy with his D&D and dating. C: Yeah, D&D and D. K: So, what are … So, what’s your thoughts about Nagoya Adventure Club and Nagoya Friends? Shoutout guys, we love you. C: I think it’s great that people invest the time and energy to kind of organize these things for themselves and for other people. K: Yeah. C: So, I haven’t gone to any of the events just because I have mobility problems, and then I’ve always had time management problems where it’s difficult to find the time. K: I think with the ACCJ, you’re busy. I think the ACCJ fills up your dance card. C: It’s part of my time management problems, yes. K: All the lunches and everything. C: Yeah, and when I was in university, that was really busy. K: Yeah. C: So, you know, I did a number of things through that, but that was mostly with Japanese students. K: Mm-hmm. C: Because most of the students were Japanese, so … K: Yeah, and we hung out with professors of yours and those kinds of things. C: Yeah, yeah. K: So, I feel like my social life has been as rich and as diverse in Japan as it was in the United States. I think the major difference between my social life right before we left the United States, versus my social life now is that, my social life were all parents of kids that went to the same school as Rasta. C: Yeah. K: I didn’t have any … because when we got married, all of our friends were single, and they didn’t really … like, my female friends, especially, didn’t really transition to me being married well. C: Mm-hmm. K: All of them were still coming into our family home without a bra on, and that was really challenging for me. Or, wearing miniskirts, or wanting me to go out drinking. And, I was just at a very different place. C: Yeah. K: And, you know, because I still partied a lot and went clubbing a lot until Rasta was probably in the first or second grade. And then, I just kind of got so involved. Because school felt like it really ramped up, and so, I had to be more present in the day. And, more aware of never being hungover during the week and all of those things. C: Right. K: When he was younger, I could be hungover during the week, and nobody really knew that I was hungover during the week. And in kindergarten, I feel like nobody really knew. Although kindergarten, they were starting to notice that sometimes I was hungover. K: Not that I was a drunk or anything, but you know, it happened a couple times a month. C: Yeah. K: And so, people started looking at you funny. And, schools are a trip. Schools will call Child Protective Services on you in a heartbeat for like, the most mundane, ridiculous things. So I was like, okay, I don’t want to be dealing with Child Protective Services. Because like, the one time they called us in. C: Yeah, they didn’t call Child Protective Services. They called us. K: But, they were about to, if we didn’t give them the right answers. C: Yeah, so the school psychologist called us in. And … K: “It’s really, we have a serious matter with Rasta. We need you to come to the school as soon as possible. Please, return this call as soon as possible.” Three times, we got that message on our phone in one day. C: So, we returned the call and said, “Can you tell us what this is about?” C: “No, I’m afraid you’re going to have to come down here.” So, we’re … K: “It’s a really serious matter that we need to discuss in person.” C: You know, we’re headed down there just wondering, like, did he damage his hands permanently playing wall ball, or you know … K: Yeah, did he get in a fight? C: Yeah, what happened? And, he had been doodling, I think. And one of the other students had kind of told on him. K: Not kind of, had completely told on him. C: Okay. K: For doodling. C: And so, he had doodled a monster next to a stick figure. K: Yeah. C: And then … K: Said “person who tells” … C: Person who tells … K: … over the stick figure. C: And then, a monster all by itself, and the monster was saying, “Yum.” K: And then, it was a series of pictures. And then, in the next picture, it said “Monster.” And then, the stick figure was in the belly of the monster, and it said, “Person who tells.” And, they were yelling outside of the monster’s stomach, “Help, help.” C: Yep. K: And then, there was another … I think there was a third figure with just the monster and the stick figure. C: Yep. K: And, that was very ominous to them. They were like, “Are you aware that Rasta’s so violent?” And it’s just like, it took everything I had. I was so good. I was so proud of myself in that meeting. C: You should be proud of yourself in that meeting. K: I was like, “No, we weren’t. And we’re very concerned about it. We’re going to take this very seriously. This is completely unacceptable. And we’ll ensure that he will never do this again. And, what consequences do you think he should have at the school level?” And, they gave him Saturday school for that. C: Yes. K: It’s completely ridiculous. So, those kinds of incidents, like, really took our life in a different direction, in terms of how we were living. C: Yeah, I think so. Because, I think that type of incident, because that wasn’t the only incident with that school. You know, we had incidents about his hair. K: Yeah. C: And, it just became clear that it was a pattern. K: Yeah, and so, we really had to always be the best version of ourselves, because before that school, we had incidents with teachers, with him correcting teacher’s spellings, and then teachers picking on him. C: Right. K: So, it just felt like Rasta really needed us to be present at a different level. C: Yeah. K: And so, our life really became more Rasta centric, where he was the center of the universe, which, all kids should be the center of the universe. C: Well, yeah, he … K: I think when he was younger, he didn’t notice that he wasn’t the center of the universe, because you could strap him in a stroller, and he didn’t really care what we were doing behind pushing him. C: I think he’s always entertained himself. K: Yeah, we’ve been very lucky with that. He loves his own company. C: And, when he was put in a situation where he was basically, punished for entertaining himself when he was bored, rather than looking to other people to entertain himself, then, that wasn’t a long-term, tenable situation. K: Yeah. So, we loved the schools Rasta went to. Nothing bad to say about them. Even though, we kind of just did. No hate, we’re not hating. So, for me, I feel like now, with … Now that Rasta doesn’t live in our home anymore, the level of privacy we have and the freedom of choices we can make, I’m just, I’m not into drinking anymore, so I don’t. C: Yeah. K: So, any group or club, or membership that is focused on partying and drinking being the activity that bonds everybody, I’m just not into that. C: Well, and it’s always been bad for both of us, physically. K: Yeah, because my porphyria and my lupus, I really shouldn’t drink. Didn’t stop me for a lot of years. C: Yeah. K: But, I find now that I’m old, I just don’t have the resiliency. It takes me so long to recover from a hangover now. C: I think that’s the theme. Our social groups now are more determined by being old. K: True that, true that. And, not into drinking. C: Yeah. K: For me, I can’t think of any of my friends that like to drink. C: Mm-hmm. K: Hmm, I hadn’t really thought about that. Actually, I don’t know. We just don’t drink. C: Yeah. K: Huh, maybe, like, I might get wild and crazy and have a Kahlua and milk if we’re out to dinner, or … C: Yeah, I mean, there are people I might go out to dinner with, and they might have a beer or glass of wine. K: Yeah, huh, interesting. There’s another thing I wanted to give a shout out to that I recently learned about, but really haven’t had experience with, that I’m toying with the idea of. Something called Hello Talk, where you can go on there and meet people who are trying to learn a foreign language. C: Okay. K: And, they have a meetup groups in Nagoya, based on the people who live in Nagoya and are on the app. You know, these language-learning things, I so want to learn Japanese. I do. I just want to learn it without putting any effort into it kind of thing. C: Yeah, there’s a critical masses kind of things, like, to geek out a little it’s called the network effect. K: Yeah. C: The more people who belong, the more valuable it is. You know, like Texas A&M, I’m an alumnus of that. And, they contacted me to say, “Hey, would you be interested in meeting other people in Japan who are alumni?” And I said yes, and I never heard from them again. So, I guess they … K: Yeah, so I’m earning my PhD, which is a topic for another episode. But, my chair actually put me in touch with somebody who’s like, 30 miles away. And, we exchanged a couple emails, but we’re like, okay, we get it. We’re in Japan. We’re both earning our PhDs, and we have the same chair. But, we don’t actually have time to travel that 30 miles to meet up. Or, like, we’re busy and we have a full life. So, some people think that they can understand what the points of reference would be for friendships, and I think being in Japan, being from the United States. Or, being in Japan and being Black, those don’t always guarantee that people who have those same points of reference are going to want to be friends with you. C: I think there’s time compatibility. There’s age compatibility. K: Yeah. C: There’s a lot of different ways that you can be incompatible, and that’s okay. I think it only really seems like a big deal sometimes here in Japan because you’re not constantly meeting people. K: Yeah, and I think my friends really spoil me in that, they come to me. C: They do, yes. K: And so, yeah, I’m super, super spoiled, because they’re willing to come to my office so I can … C: Well, you have a nice space. K: Yeah, I have two different units, and I think for my friends with children, it’s really nice, because I have a unit that’s just filled with toys. C: Yep. K: And so, they can come, and we sit there. And the kids just play with toys, make a mess. There’s like, nothing in the room. It’s just a square box with toys in it. There’s no furniture. C: Yeah, well, you see all ages, so … K: Yeah, so, because when I work with little people, it’s fun to let them play. Because play is a big part of their therapy. C: Mm-hmm, right. K: And so, I have friends with kids as young as 18 months, and I also, not for any just … That’s just the age range. I’d be willing to have friends who are pregnant and with younger babies. C: Yeah. K: But, the youngest child right now currently, of all my friends, is 18 months. C: But, 18 months is kind of a magic age in Japan, because it’s the age at which they become eligible for day care. K: Yeah, yeah. And so, I think what they like is that, I can book off a Saturday morning before my first client and say, “Hey, let’s come hang out for two or three hours.” And, it’s really convenient for them because we’re located near a central transportation hub. And then there’s like, a mall, and there’s places to eat, and there’s a park. So, when the weather’s nice, we can hang out at the park and it’s really convenient. C: Yeah, which has a playground. K: Yeah, so I’m really spoiled. So, I think for me, it’s having a point of reference, and a willingness to come to me. Because I struggle to travel outside of the Ozone area. C: Yeah. K: That makes great friendships. C: Yeah. K: So, I feel like a really lazy friend. C: I think people who are willing to work within your limitations. K: Yeah, so, you travel to your friends. C: Yes, so I … K: You like to get out of Ozone, rather. C: Yeah, so I have mobility issues, but my issues affect me whether I’m going anywhere or not. K: Yeah, and I think your cane really helps a lot with that. C: It does, yeah. So, and a lot of people see the cane and they think, “Whoa, your issues must have gotten worse.” And no, actually, if I don’t have it, they’re much worse than if I do. K: Yeah, because you have that … Is it plantar fasciitis? C: I thought that it was. So, my heel was hurting for several months, and I thought that it was. K: Uh-huh, you broke it. C: And, when I went … Yeah, I had actually shattered my heel, so that’s still … They tell me that’ll take a couple of years to heal. K: Yeah. So, that’s us for today. Another gorgeous ramble in the can. C: Yeah, so nominally, that one was about social groups. K: Yeah, hope you tune back in. C: Talk to you later, bye bye. K: Bye.

K: So lately I’ve been thinking about the PhD process. You are Dr. Musick, and you have been for some time. And I’m in the process of becoming Dr. Musick. C: Yes. K: So… you got your PhD a few years back, a Japanese University C: Lo these many years ago. K: (laughs) And so I kind of want to start with talking about the decision to get a PhD. C: Mmhmm. K: Because I feel like you and I had very different reasons for wanting a PhD. C: Okay. K: So, what was your reason? Why did you want a PhD? C: To shut everybody up. K: (laughs) What do you mean by that? C: No, I think a lot of it was just the expectation of myself that I should have one, because when I was younger and worked in tech, most of the people that I worked with had a PhD. So, I just kind of viewed that as a marker of “you’re fully educated”. And that was even though I didn’t even have a bachelor’s degree at the time and felt like I was doing equal work. So, like there’s a little bit of elitism in that. K: So, did you think you should get a PhD before you started working in tech, like when you were in Alaska, or was it after coming to California? C: After coming to California. K: Because I find, for me at least, in where I was at, it really felt… I feel like California has a PhD culture. C: Yeah, it does. K: And, that’s kind of like if you’re educated I feel like the culture, at least in the Silicon Valley, is that no education under a PhD is really respected or really treated as if it has value. Because they’re not, like… a bachelor’s is just what you’re supposed to do. C: Right. K: That’s like the entry level to play in anything. I was really fortunate that, for me, working with children, that that wasn’t the entry level. You don’t actually need a degree in the United States. I mean, in California, rather. I don’t want to speak for the whole United States. It’s different from state to state, and sometimes different from county to county in each state. But in Santa Clara county… gosh, over twenty years ago, like twenty-five years ago, it wasn’t necessary to have anything other than 12 Early [Childhood] Education credits to work with children. C: Yeah, your Early Childhood Education. K: Yeah, Early Childhood Education. And then for the work that I did going from that, I did Early Childhood Education, Early Child Development, and so I got all of the development education stuff, and then I kind of tapped out of the education process because I needed to work and make money. C: Mmhmm. K: And I got a job. And that job trained me, and I had on-the-job training. They trained in screening, which was … low-level differential diagnosis, because we would screen children for autism and screen children for ADHD and screen… and work with, not screen, but work with Children who had Downs. Down Syndrome. And I got my entry into therapy and working with children that way, and so, for many many years, I didn’t have, like, the official education that people internationally expected. C: Right. K: And that’s what kind of set me on my journey to get my bachelor’s and my master’s and all of that was so that people could understand me internationally. C: Yes. And, for me I think that’s why I started doing formal education, too, is I had all of this knowledge but it was very much within Silicon Valley, and I wanted to be more competitive in the workplace as far as landing the kind of jobs that I wanted and being able to do the kind of thing I found interesting. You know, a lot of times, if we look at the economy as a whole, when the economy gets bad, people go back to school. K: Yeah. C: And it’s not necessarily just to avoid being in a bad economy, but it’s also to strengthen your own qualifications. That’s a whole other thing, but I felt like Silicon Valley really taught me, which maybe not a true lesson, that if you don’t have a terminal degree, then what you have achieved can be taken from you at any time. K: What do you mean by terminal degree? C: A degree that kills you. K: (laughs) And that would be a PhD, for sure! Man my PhD is killing me some days. C: It differs by field. Like, you know, most lawyers have just a JD, and even though in the US K: What’s a JD? C: It’s called Juris Doctorate K: Okay, what’s a Juris Doctorate? C: Doctor of Law? (K laughs) K: I’m sorry but I just completely lost the plot there for a minute, like what are you on about. Why are you talking about lawyers right now? C: Well, because it’s not actually a doctorate. I mean, the US calls it a doctorate but no other place does. K: I don’t know anybody that calls that a doctorate. C: Because it’s not. And in fact (K laughs) the American Bar Association says “If you don’t have a doctorate in something else, it’s unethical to call yourself a doctorate just because of the words JD.” But, if you have a JD, nobody expects you to get more education. K: So you’re listing JD as being on part with the PhD and an MD. C: As far as career advancement, correct. K: Okay. So, but, for me what terminal degree… I think it varies so much from field to field. C: It does and that’s why K: I’m not trying to do all that. I’m trying to talk about our PhDs. Your PhD and my PhD. This is not trying to like educate everyone on education. C: Okay, so in my PhD, the Ph is for Phabulous. K: (laughing) So, no, like… why did you get your PhD? C: I found the subject really interesting, and I wanted K: What is your subject? I don’t think, so… let’s fill everybody in, like, what do you have your PhD in… what did you do your dissertation on? What motivated you? I guess I need to be a better interviewer. C: Okay, so my PhD is in suurikagaku, which the official translation is “Mathematical Science”. So, in other universities, if I had done exactly the same thing, it would have been in mathematics. So, this is just a quirk of Nagoya University where I went. And basically I studied topology, which is shapes, and I have my master’s in computational mathematics, so I studied differential equations and statistics and all of that, which was very applied. So between the two, I have a lot of applied and a lot of unapplied mathematics. K: And so, I never felt like… and even when you decided to get your PhD… I never felt like it created any career opportunities for you. C: Well, and when they study they find that PhDs don’t. Basically are not worth it. When they look at the difference in the career earnings gap between a bachelor’s and a master’s, they say “Yes, absolutely a master’s is worth it”. When they look at the career earnings gap, on average, between a master’s and a PhD, PhDs make less over their lifetime than people with a master’s because of the years they give up pursuing that PhD. K: And so, for me, I felt like you needed your PhD to heal some… to heal the core pain of not being supported in your education when you were younger. Because you graduated high school two years early, but then you didn’t have the funding to go to college. C: Right. K: And I think, for me, that in you created core pain, is what I felt. And I felt like putting all the resources into you getting a PhD is so that you could feel loved, supported, and cherished by me. C: And I am. K: That’s why I supported your PhD. C: And I did feel all of those things. K: So what did you get out of it? Because I got out of it forever having good wife cred. (Both laugh) I’m like the OG of good wives now. C: I got out of it the chance to just devote myself completely to the study of one thing. The way that the program worked where I went to school, at Nagoya University, the PhD in mathematics specifically doesn’t require any additional courses because you’re required to already have a master’s and to demonstrate before you’re admitted your competence in all areas of mathematics. So I had a long oral exam before I was admitted as a PhD student. And so I had, you know, a couple of years to just explore something that I really love. And still love. And then get certified, in a way, as an expert in this. K: So I think that’s so interesting, like our two different approaches. Because I have avoided everything I love like the plague. C: Mmhmm. K: During my PhD. (laughs) Because I feel like I’m going to hate whatever… I feel like if I studied something that I loved, like was truly incensed and passionate about, that I would be angry and hurt and devastated when my chair has to come in and give me corrections or when the discipline demands something that I don’t agree with. C: Right. K: So, for my PhD I’m studying cultural intelligence. And that’s the ability to function in cultures other than your own, is like a simple way to put it. To be effective cross-culturally. So, for me, I find that interesting. I’ve always found culture to be interesting and the study of culture, but I’m not passionate about it in any way. C: Mmhmm. K: And so I find that when they’re like, “What about this?” or “What about that?” I’m like “Okay, I’ll include it.” I really don’t care. I just want to have a finished PhD. And throughout my program, that’s what the program I’m in, because I’m going to Walden, and Walden really beats into you that the best PhD is a finished PhD. C: Right. K: And they require that you do residences and they require that you take two years of coursework no matter what you’ve done, because I earned my master’s from Walden. Even if I had continued on straight from the master’s to the PhD, I still would have had to do two years of additional coursework. So there’s no way to complete a Walden PhD in under 4 and a half years. And that’s if you’re fast-tracking. C: You know I found it really interesting how much more difficult it was for me to go to school online than in person. K: Mmhmm. C: Because I did my master’s through Texas A&M online, and it was a much lonelier and more difficult experience. And doing the PhD in person, I think I didn’t have the same experience that you’re having because there was always somebody to kind of talk over things with. K: But I have someone to talk over things with. I have you. C: Yeah, but I’m not in your program. K: I don’t really value talking to people in my program about the program, because I find that every time I talk with other students… and this might just be the students that I’m missing… that I’m meeting, rather… they don’t really want to talk with me. They want to talk at me. C: Mmm. K: And I think it’s because most of them don’t have you. Well, none of have you. C: None of them have me, correct. K: And I feel like it’s the one chance that they get to talk to somebody who understands the program and who understands what they’re doing. And so they never really listen, like, even when people are like “Hey!”… because I take a lot of auxiliary classes as well, and I had the experience of a classmate saying “Hey, oh, you’re taking this auxiliary class. Let me take it with you, and we’ll be buddies for it.” And then when it came time to do it they were like “Yeah, I don’t wanna take that class,” and I was like “Right on.” So even when they’re trying to partner with me, I’ve just… I haven’t had the experience of anyone partnering with me. And there is somebody in Japan, like… 30 minutes away from us… same chair as me, in the same program as me, and we don’t communicate. I sent them an email, and they’re off doing their own thing and they’re busy, and I’m off doing my think. So I find it’s like those two lanes. Either the person already has so much support that they don’t need my support. Or they have no support and want my support without it being reciprocal. C: I think this varies a lot by field, too. Because in mathematics, everybody kind of knows what everybody else is working on. So it’s… it’s difficult to steal somebody else’s idea, for one thing, because everybody would know you did it. And for another, it’s much less subjective. K: So nobody is trying to steal my ideas. Like, the one cool thing that I love about Walden is once you go through your initial defense for your proposal, your idea can’t be stolen. It’s so documented. C: Right. K: So that’s the one great thing that I really really love about Walden is the documentation of the process. So it would be really really hard for someone to steal my idea. C: But I think that’s the other part that I was saying is that it’s so much more… not “subjective”, but probabalistic, than mathematics is. So if you do a qualitative dissertation, which you’re doing quantitative, then it’s entirely down to how the people evaluating it feel about whether you’ve done it right. K: That’s not true. C: There are established ways to do it, but nobody can come in and say with 100% “Yes” or “No” on it. K: Yeah. C: There’s a lot of subjectivity in the assessment of it. K: And that’s true for quant to a certain extent as well. C: And that’s why I was saying it’s true for quant to a probabalistic extent. You can say, you know, what percentage likely it is that you’re right. And don’t write to us about p values. I can explain the whole thing. I know it’s not actually… K: But what does this have to do with why we want our PhDs? You’re in a weird head space today. You’re confusing me. C: I wanted a PhD so that I could geek out about this kind of stuff. K: (laughs) And have people accept that you can geek out about it? C: Yes. K: So you can be an authority, so you can have the gravitas to geek out whenever you want? How’s that working out for you? C: It works out pretty well, actually. So one of my favorite times having a PhD was that I went to a presentation for the ACCJ, the American Chamber of Commerce in Japan, on sales. And the presenter said “Oh, I’m DOCTOR” and then introduced himself in just a very kind of pompous, obnoxious way. And so the person running the thing made a point to say “Oh, okay. Let me introduce to the people here. Here’s Dr. Musick. Here’s Dr. H. Here’s Dr. C.” (K laughing) Because there’s a lot of us foreigners here in Japan with PhDs. K: Yeah. And especially with the ACCJ in particular. It’s a really well educated bunch. C: Right. So, a lot of people here have a PhD but don’t work in their field. K: Yeah. C: The thing I find interesting about getting a PhD in Japan was the work culture around it. So, when I started applying for jobs, I found that if I wanted to work for an entirely Japanese company, they have a system where you just go to work for the company, and not because of your skills. K: Yeah. C: So, if I wanted to specify that I would work in mathematics, I had to give up pay. K: Yes. C: Even though I have a PhD in mathematical science. K: Yes. C: So that I thought was bizarre, and I ended up working for a legally Japanese company that was not run entirely by Japanese people. So, I would definitely do it again if I had the choice, knowing what I know now. But I don’t know if I would set it as a goal back when I decided at like, 21, that I wanted a PhD, if I knew what I would end up. K: And you wanted a PhD from a foreign university. From a non-American university. C: Absolutely, yes. That’s what I had decided was going to be the marker of it. And, too, I think part of it was … you know, just being the best in my family. K: Mmm. (laughs) C: Not you and me and our son, but (K continues laughing) my siblings. K: Yes. You are the best one. C: It’s a little petty, maybe, but it drove me to finish a PhD which I think is a great thing. K: So which of your siblings has a master’s? C: I’m not sure that any of my siblings even have a bachelor’s. K: Right, so that’s so bizarre to me. You’re like, “I need a PhD,” because financially you’re successful than all your siblings, and just at the bachelor’s level, educationally you’re more successful. If we’re defining it by accolades… and then your patents. So, like, you have patents, publication, degrees up the wazoo, certifications up the wazoo. C: I enjoy education now. I feel like I got a late start on it. I had a really rough school. My mom died when I was in high school and it was just… I graduated 100 something out of 140 in my class, and I didn’t really kind of … get into school until, in terms of just really it clicking for me, until I met you. I’m not saying you were the catalyst, just that K: Yeah, we met in college, so… (laughs) you were in college before you met me. C: Just that it clicked that “Oh, this is what people were saying all along.” Because my father was very much… and he would use these same words, that it’s “all just jumping through hoops” and “not letting the bastards grind you down”. That was his educational philosophy. K: And that kind of feels like the PhD process. Jump through hoops and not let the bastards grind you down. But I have like the most amazing chair on the planet. And my co-chair, they are so amazing. They are just, like, a wet dream for me. We are so perfectly suited for each other. C: Mmhmm. K: They leave me the heck alone. (C laughs) And I love it. I don’t need a lot of direction, and when I write, they give me clear criticisms on what it is they want me to change. They highlight it. Underline it. And are very specific, and until it change that, it will not be approved. Whatever it is I’m working on, it will not be approved. And so the premise-writing process was really super straightforward for me. The prospectus really super straightforward for me. I’m still in the proposal writing process, but super super straightforward. It was like “Hey, I think I want to start with method on my proposal.” “No, you don’t, you want to start with your literature review.” Very succinct. Very succinct. And I don’t know what I was thinking, because I hadn’t finished my literature review, and so like that when I just get excited and I want to run ahead and chase rabbits, she’s like “You can chase those rabbits, but after you’re done chasing them you’re still going to have to do this thing I said.” C: Well, I think you might have been thinking about all the presentations I’ve been rehearsing where I say “write your methods first”. K: Not just that. At the residency, Walden said “write your methods first.” C: Mmm, okay. K: And the… to get from prospectus to proposal, you have to know your methods. C: Yes. K: So I have like… and I’m doing a lot of additional courses focused on methods. So, right now my life is very focused on method, while I’m doing … still in my literature review. C: Right. K: And, I’m like “I like doing, I like having simultaneous streams of thought” because if I’m focusing on just one thing, I feel like “Okay, well when I turn this one thing in, I’m not going to be ready to start working on the next thing.” C: You want to have a lot of irons in the fire. K: Yeah, always. Because there is a two-week period my chair and co-chair have for review, and so that two weeks and the program design in my pacing, I can’t afford to spend two weeks doing nothing. That’s going to lead to, you know, me maxing out, running out the clock on the PhD process. I’m trying to get it done as quickly as possible. So I’m really fortunate in that I have excellent research chops and I’m a really good writer, so writing and turning around feedback surprises my chair I’m so quick. (C laughs) And because I work for myself, on days that I know I’m getting to write, I will book those days off. C: Right. K: I will sacrifice money for progress. And that’s how I look at it. And so I’m always jiggling and joggling. On my schedule there’s a few days that are fixed, but the rest of the days I leave open for me to have flexibility, and then because in addition to doing my PhD and working as a therapist full-time, we’re also doing the podcast, and we have social media, and we’re parents… so, I learned from watching your process of doing it in two years, doing your PhD in two years… you were at breakneck speed, “Go!” the entire time. C: Yes, I was. K: And it was such a serious grind and you leaned in, and you didn’t have time for friends or family or anything other than PhD. And it was so miserable for you. Like, even when you traveled you really didn’t get to enjoy it, and you were doing some amazing things during your PhD. You went to several really prestigious conferences, and you were involved in several really prestigious think tanks but- C: Yeah, I think I- K: … I don’t feel like you got to luxuriate in any of that. C: I mean, I had some time to unwind it, because I got my PhD in 2012. Yeah, I did a lot of fun stuff. I went to I think four different countries to speak, and I got to take a train across Europe. I spoke virtually in Russia. It was a lot of fun, but it was just really intense. So, I don’t think that I got to enjoy it at the time. My memory is good enough on these things. I can enjoy it retrospectively. C: I felt like it was really a privilege to be able to go and get a PhD. So, one of the things that I’m passionate about is helping people that it’s not necessarily historically easy for them to get a PhD to work through that program. K: So, for me in getting a PhD, my process was a little bit different than yours in that I never wanted one until I did. So, I was defiant and belligerent for, I want to say, about 15 years of you telling me that you thought it’d be cool if I got a PhD. C: Yes. K: Me saying, “Fuck that. I’m not … No. No, Chad. No. I will never ever ever have my PhD, not ever never, ever never.” C: You say ten years of never, and it was ten years of never. K: Yeah. I did. Ten years of never ever. Then when I was in my masters in … because I just did my masters at the time that you were doing your PhD and your … chair at the time had mentioned us going to Europe for your post-doc. When we were toying with that, I thought, “Hm, I would totally dig having my PhD if I could get my PhD in Austria.” That’s because of the history of the discipline, because the history of psychology, and linguistics and all of that. I really loved that. K: Then I was like, “Nah,” and, “Nope, I don’t … ” I already had Adjustment Guidance. I had already started working in the field, then having it and having it fully realized, I felt like I don’t need a PhD to do anything I want to do. So, after seeing what you went through to get it, I was like, “I don’t know if I want to do that.” C: Yeah, because a terminal degree for practice here in Japan is a masters. K: Yeah, for the government to certify you. C: Right. K: So, now I’m like a member of the Japanese Psychological Association, and the ward offices refer to me, and I can testify in court and all of that because I have a decade of experience and a masters. C: Right. K: So, I am at the height of where I can be, like the Japanese Government does not value PhD. C: So, given all that, what made you decide to do the PhD? K: I really just felt unfinished. C: Mm-hmm (affirmative). K: I felt like I have the knowledge that a PhD would represent, and why don’t I just do this last step? The only thing in-between me and doing it is putting the time in. C: Right. K: So, why not put the time in and get this really cool thing that allows me more flexibility? I also have been thinking about, now that we have permanent residency and when we were going for it, what does that mean for the rest of the world? Would I ever want to do the top circuit, like the conference circuit? Would I ever want to do consulting? I don’t know that I’m always going to be a therapist. C: That’s a good point. K: Yeah, and so anything beyond therapy for me requires a PhD. I don’t know. Right now I’m really enjoying being a therapist, but I feel like being a woman of a certain age, that the clock is kind of running out for me in terms of getting the PhD and then having enough years on the PhD that I will still have enough vitality on the other side of that to do a career change if I choose. C: Right. K: So, I just want it for the flexibility and the options that it provides me. The gravitas doesn’t hurt. I love gravitas. Also, it just feels like a nice cherry on top of the cake. You know, it’s the icing on the cake for me. C: I know exactly what you mean. K: Also, something that I haven’t thought about before that I am really feeling now is a celebration for how stable my life is, because when I was doing my undergraduate work before you and I were married, I used to keep a stack of books. At De Anza University, shout out De Anza. Love De Anza, the most amazing college … one of the most amazing colleges in the world to me. The professors would put old textbooks out in the hallway, and I would just go and scoop them up. They were for free. C: Right. K: Then I would leave them in my apartment so that people could break into my apartment and steal my textbooks without impacting my ability to do my schoolwork. So, it was hard out here for a pimp for a long time. I guess that doesn’t sound very much like I’m in the pimp ling, but with the stockers and the person that I was partnered with at the time, nobody really wanted me to get an education. Everybody wanted me to stay small and stay where I was. They felt like education was going to make me blow up and move in directions that they couldn’t come with. K: So, they were wanting me to stay in the same lane that they were in and not better myself. So, education for me was always really fraught and really difficult. Then when I did my masters, at the time that I did my masters, Rasta was also in college. You were doing a PhD, and we were in Japan and were trying to- C: Yes, all three of us were in tertiary education. K: Yeah, and trying to figure out how do we get from where we were to permanent residency. C: Yes. K: It was really, really fraught and really, really difficult. I didn’t have enough income and money of my own to pay for it, and I always felt like if I had … With you paying for my masters, there was a huge amount of pressure that came with you paying for, just a huge amount of pressure. I know when I was supporting us during your PhD, there was a huge amount of pressure for you. C: Right. K: I think I finished my masters before- C: You did. K: … your PhD. So, I misspoke when I said I was doing it at the same time. You were in a masters program, I was in a masters program, and Rasta was in a bachelors program. C: No, we had overlap in … I think we had slight overlap. K: Not much, because- C: Not much. Maybe like a month or two. K: Yeah. I went to work really early on- C: Yeah. K: I saw how much stress and pressure upon you to finish early and give me some financial relief that I knew I didn’t want that if I was going to do a PhD. C: Right. K: I wanted to be able to really foot the bill. Now our financial situation is so good that you’re not doing a traditional job, and I’m able to do my PhD and work. So, I just feel like this is the best situation for me, because when I get burnt out of being a therapist, I can just be a PhD student. When I’m burnt out of being a PhD student, I can just be a therapist. I can switch those lanes. I really enjoy that. C: Work and sleep sometimes. K: I also saw that during your PhD when you were just a PhD student, that just made it so more amplified and so much more fraught. I see that in my clients too that are just PhD students that aren’t doing anything else verus clients who are working and earning their PhD, they are so much more centered. It’s interesting. C: It’s an odd thing, because I had a job while I was a PhD student. I was also a teaching assistant. K: Yep. But you were a teaching assistant at the university you were getting your PhD from. C: Yeah, which is the case for most people who are teaching assistants is that they are a TA. K: Yeah, the people I work with have like job-jobs and are doing their PhD. C: Right, I understand. Yep. K: That was so shady. I just said job-jobs. Oh my goodness. C: They have jobs- K: Shout out to all the teaching assistants. That’s a real job-job. I’m saying jobs not affiliated with the university they attend. C: Yes. K: Got to clean that up. C: Yes. K: Okay, so you were saying that that is the case for most people? C: I was waiting for an awkward pause so it’d seem like we’d edited that out. K: We do not edit these. By now they know we are not spending any time on editing. We just blow right past it. You get it just raw and nasty here, raw and nasty. C: Yeah, that was my nickname in high school. K: That is so gross, because I know how old you were in high school. You were like nine when you entered high school. C: I was 12 when I entered high school, not nine. K: A little 12 year old Raw and Nasty cruising down the hall. “Hey sexy.” C: All four foot, eight of me. K: That is too much. Oh my gosh, that’s too much. C: I was saying that I was working on my PhD, but I was also doing TA stuff. K: Yes. C: So, the- K: Not tits and ass, teaching assistant. C: Right, teaching assistant. So, just the student part is a misnomer for most PhD students. K: Yeah, it is. It is. So, now being on the other side of having your PhD, I feel like when you first got it you were really, really unfulfilled and angsty. C: Mm-hmm (affirmative). K: Now you seem like you’ve settled into it and you’re more luxuriating in it. How did that shift happen? Why were you angsty, first of all? I never really understood that. C: I think that I just felt like I didn’t have any way to show who I was. I was in tech before, and when you’re in tech you really have to stay in it because it changes so fast. K: Because it what? C: Changes so fast. K: Oh, yeah. C: There’s always new tools to learn. There’s always new ways of doing things. K: Yes, so true. C: I still enjoy reading about it. I read a lot about artificial intelligence and that kind of thing. But even when I was working full-time, because my memory can be problematic, I’ve always been somebody who uses references a lot. C: So, I don’t believe in closed book tests. I mean, I know they exist, but I think they’re a poor way to assess things because that’s not how professionals work. Professionals use all the resources they need to accomplish whatever they’re doing. K: Yeah. C: I felt like I didn’t have anything to show for having developed expertise. So, I felt really angsty about how will people know how to treat me with respect. K: PhD, that’s how they’ll know. C: Yeah. K: But right after that though, you felt really angsty like you didn’t feel like that PhD was enough. C: Yeah. So, I think that it wasn’t a good approach. I think it was saying that if I get a PhD, then I’m going to feel like people respect me and that I’m going to be happy. For most people, it’s not ever going to work. K: Yeah. C: So, then that really caused- K: It’s like getting a boob job to feel beautiful. C: Yeah. K: For some people, getting a boob job works. For other people, it just starts them down a slippery slope. C: Yeah. I feel like if I got one, it would just never be quite right. So, I feel like after I graduated and I still wasn’t feeling settled in that way, it caused a period of self-reflection. Now I’m content with it. So, now I feel like I’ve shifted over to I would rather people call me Chad than Doctor Musick. K: You’ve never wanted people to call you Doctor Musick. You don’t like Mister Musick. You like Doctor Musick if they’re going to say it, because that’s just the rule. C: That is the rule, yes. K: So, it’s no an ego thing. It’s just like if you have a PhD, it should be doctor rather than mister. C: Right, unless people insist I call them mister, or doctor, or whatever. Then I’m petty enough to say, “Oh, I need to call you Mister this, you can call me Doctor Musick.” K: I don’t think that’s petty. I think if people are saying, “Okay, we have a … ” the social contact is, “I’m going to closely define how you address me, and my first name was not okay.” Then if we’re using last names, it’s Doctor Musick. C: Yeah. I know I’m in my 40s and all of that, but sometimes I still feel like I’m younger than everybody else. K: You are younger than everybody else. All of our friends are late 40s, early 50s, some in their 60s. C: Yeah, but now a lot of people that I am in the ACCJ with and other things are in their 30s, and some are even in their 20s. K: That’s rare, because they’re so thirsty for 20-somethings right now. C: Yeah, 20 is rare, but 30s is not rare anymore. So, I feel like the older I get, the more ridiculous it gets that I still think of myself as the youngest person in the room. K: Okay, yeah no. In looking at you that would be ridiculous, because you’re bald with a gray beard. C: Yes. Yes. Thank you for that. K: So, I want to explain something about boob jobs. C: Okay. K: Because I don’t want anybody to be hurt that has a boob job. I’m not anti-boob job. I don’t care how you get there. Get there if you can. But I worked with a lot of women who got boob jobs for the wrong reason. They got boob jobs thinking that it would fill a hole in them if they changed the outside. I find that change has to come from the inside-out. If you love yourself but there’s this one thing about you that you’d like to fix, that’s a very different thing than thinking, “If I fix this one thing, I will love myself.” It’s a directional thing. C: That’s what I was saying about I had thought that I fixed my education, if I take what felt like it was snatched away from me by my mother’s death by being almost as a teen by a lot of different things, then I will feel like my life is good. I’m stable. Everything that I lost has been restored. I didn’t. K: So, then what did that for you? Because now you’re in such a good place. You’re so centered. I’m not seeing any of that core pain bleeding through our lives. It feels like you got healing on board for that. What did it for you? C: I think helping other people, and specifically helping professors and PhD students and seeing that they all have those same insecurities too. Being autistic, I just assume that everybody else feels differently than I do. But I could hear from them that, no, they didn’t. This is kind of how everybody feels about education with rare exception. I was like, “Oh, okay.” So, there’s never a grand moment where you feel like, “Ah-ha, I have done it. I have completed the learning. I have learned all the knowledge.” K: Yeah. So, then for you, PhD was about goal attainment and hoping to heal core pain? C: Yes. K: For me, my PhD is a celebration that my life is stable enough and good enough now that I could do this really, really hard thing. On any given day, I can tell the whole world to, “Shh.” That’s something I’ve never had before now where I could say, “Okay, everybody just freeze. Nobody need anything from me today. Nobody talk to me today. Nobody nothing,” because even in my practice I can tell clients, “I will not have access to electronics, and I can go on a writing retreat and not communicate with any clients.” I seriously will unplug. C: Well, and you’re not an on-demand therapist. K: Yeah, no I’m not. C: So, you don’t take walk-ins, and you give people a hotline if they have needs in the middle of the night or whatever. K: Yeah. Ouch … I had to switch my leg. For me, if you’re in crisis, you cannot call me and get me to answer my phone. It’s hit and miss. So, I don’t answer my phone in-between clients, and I usually don’t answer my phone on my days off. C: You certainly don’t answer your phone during sessions. K: Oh, absolutely not. If I’m in a car driving to and from some place, I may answer my phone. So, it’s really, really super rare. Most times I call back, so email is the fastest way to reach me. I like that distance and everybody knowing that if they send me an email, it can take to up to 24 hours to respond. C: Right. K: So, I really did before entering the PhD program, I was able to clear the field. Having witnessed you go through the program, I feel very lucky that you went before I did because I’m just avoiding some of the mistakes that you made. I’m able to benefit from adapting what you did to me and crafting it so that it suits me and it fits my personality. So, for me, having a PhD, what that will tell the world about me is that I had a certain amount of money, because everybody knows how much PhDs cost, and that I had consistency, that I was able to create consistency in my life. K: Not everybody who has a PhD had consistency, and not everybody who had a PhD had a certain amount of money. Some people did loans or what have you. It says that you could get a loan, that you had access to the money. It says that you could have enough consistency that you were able to present an idea, do what was ever necessary to bring that idea to fruition and then defend it and have people say, “Yep. You did it.” C: I guess I think the last thing for me before we finish is, I feel like part of the reason that I wanted a PhD so much and pursued it so vigorously was that it became clear to me that being disabled meant that I wouldn’t be able to sustain a career in something that required constant attention. K: Yeah. C: So, I don’t have any scorn or look down on people who don’t have a degree, but I knew that the best shot I had at being able to make a stable living despite being able disabled, or I should say while being disabled, was to have the PhD. K: A point I want to make about my PhD, I dropped out of high school. I earned my GED, and it took me until I was in my 50s. This has been a lifelong journey for me of living and learning, and the first time I went around for my bachelors, it just didn’t work out. A bunch of shady stuff happened in my life and didn’t work out. K: The second time around, I feel like I got … So, the first time I got a scholarship from who’s who among American students. I just didn’t have the maturity to bear that out. The second time, my mother was actually paying me to go to school. I didn’t have the maturity to value going to school over partying. So, I hung out with friends and partied. The third time I went, I was just trying to get to that place where I had enough education on board to get a decent job and change my career path. K: Then the time after that, I met you, and we joke, but you fucked away all my hopes, dreams and ambitions. The sex was good. The sex was intense, and I valued sex over going to class. Then the time after that … So, there- C: Yeah, we took a hiatus. We met in college. We got married. We met in college, got married, took a hiatus, and then went back and finished. K: Yeah, so I don’t know. I’ve tried to get my bachelors like seven or eight times before I did it. But then I did it, because I kept going back. To me, that’s the coolest thing about being in an American is that I was in school with people in their 80s- C: Yeah, so I was. K: … going to get their bachelors. So, I feel like you don’t age out of it. If you want education, figure out how to do it for yourself. Even if you have to do it in increments where you have to go make a bunch of money and then take a couple classes, make a bunch of money and take a couple classes, you can get there. Don’t let anybody tell you because you’re in the foster system you can’t do it. Don’t let anybody tell you because you’re a woman you can’t do it. Don’t let anybody tell you because you’re queer you can’t do it. Don’t let anybody tell you because you’re a woman you can’t do it. That has nothing to do with you, the ways that they try to limit you, or you’re disabled and you can’t do it C: Yeah. The way I see it, I know the stats is that something … only something like three percent of kids who were in the foster system end up with at least a bachelors degree. K: Yeah. C: I think you didn’t beat the odds. You made the odds,- K: Thank you. C: … because the people who are the 97%, they didn’t lose the odds. K: No. C: I think this whole idea of beating the odds is kind of- K: Antiquated. C: Yeah. So, I think wherever you’re at in life, if you want to do better, then- K: Do better. C: Yeah. It can- K: Figure it out. C: It can be tough to find the resources. So, I don’t fault anybody for not doing better, but we were lucky enough to- K: Go down to your local community college and go down to the financial aid office, and tell them, “Hey. Where can I get some money?” C: Yeah. K: Seriously, it’s that simple. Just go down and talk to a financial aid officer, and that’s their whole job is to tell people how to get money. Most people in the foster care system qualify for the Pell Grant and other subsidies and grants. You can get paid to go to school. So, that’s my little PSA, my little rant. I saved it until the end. C: Yeah. K: I didn’t make the whole thing about it, but I’ll climb down off my soap box now that … Wherever you are and whoever you are, get there if you can, if education is what you want. Don’t let other people’s lack of creativity stop you from pursuing your goals. C: Good way to put it. K: Yeah. That’s us for today. Thanks for listening, and we hope you listen again. C: Bye-bye.

K: So lately I’ve been thinking about what’s cool about living in Japan, or what’s awesome about living in Japan. And the reason that I started thinking about this is a client who came to see me, here in Japan, said “It’s just so cool that you live in Japan”, and I was like “Yo, you live in Japan, too.” C: That makes them cool too, then. K: Right? So I was like, “Is living in Japan cool? Do I feel cooler living in Japan than I did in the United States?” C: No, I feel much hotter. (K laughs) K: Well, in the summer time. In the winter time, I would say we feel much cooler, if you’re just doing a temperature joke. C: Not for me. K: For me, definitely. So then I was thinking, okay what’s so different or so awesome about living in Japan compared to living in the United States? And for me, it’s something that when I was thinking about it was very interesting, in that what I like is the … how few and far between smiles are. Like, just random smiles between strangers. Like, there’s never any pressure for me to smile, and I freakin’ love it. C: Yeah, no, there are some people who expect the ojigi, which is like the first bow of the day. It’s just a little head nod to say “Yep, I see you.” K: But being African American, it’s the “What up?” except it goes down instead of up. C: And your back bends a little bit. K: I never bend my back when I ojigi. It’s just a pure head nod to me. C: So you’re doing it wrong but that’s okay. (K laughs) K: They’re fine with it. Everybody’s digging my ojigi. C: Yes. K: They’re getting jiggy with it. (laughs) I crack myself up. C: Giving yourself that? K: So what do you think about my smiling and all of that? So, because I always wonder is it easier for you that there are fixed social rules. Because being on the spectrum, how’s that different for you? C: It’s a lot easier for me. Because I’m not just on the spectrum. I’m all over the spectrum. I own the spectrum. K: (laughs) And we’re talking about the autism spectrum. C: Yes. I might be, you know, one end one day and another end another day. It’s a lot easier for me if there are fixed social rules, because it gives me a level of predictability when I go out. And now when I’m wearing my glasses, if I put on my glasses, if I put on some music, I basically don’t have to deal with any sensory input. And the fixed rules K: Well, any sensory input outside your control. C: Right. And the fixed rules means that people aren’t going to demand that I take out my headphones, for example. K: So, for me the not needing to smile is, it goes back to that privacy thing we talked about a couple episodes ago. And I just really like that everybody gets that they don’t own my mouth. C: Mmhmm. K: And I felt like in the United States, when people would tell me “Smile, girl!” or “You should smile!” or when people would smile at me just randomly and expect me to smile back, I felt like they were taking ownership of my mouth. And I really didn’t like it. I never… I’m normally a smiley person, but I don’t like to have to smile. C: Right. K: I want to smile. And so now the difference is the times and instances where I feel like I have to smile for a social construct are almost at zero. It’s really rare. C: Yeah, it is. I can’t think of any times outside of meeting with other foreigners that I’m expected to smile. K: Yeah. So I really enjoy that. What would be one that stands out for you? Something that you think is cool or awesome about Japan that’s different than the US? C: I think the expectation that you have a car is not here in Japan so heavily. K: I think in Nagoya, maybe. I think out in the countryside C: Out in the countryside you need some way to get around, but I think in the major urban centers, it’s not shocking if you don’t have a car. And I think if you live in New York or some place like that then it’s also not shocking, but in California, even within San Francisco, it was shocking if you didn’t have a car. K: And I find, being a foreigner, most Japanese nationals that I talk to expect that I don’t have a car. C: Right. K: Like, the expectation is that I don’t. C: Right. So if you look at real estate listings, it doesn’t tell you the address. It tells you the nearest train station or subway stations. K: Yeah, how many minutes walking. C: Right. And there are laws about how you calculate how many minutes walk it is from a train station if you’re going to advertise for it, because that’s so central to it. K: And how close you are to the different types of transportation really impacts how much your rent is, or how much the property can be sold for. C: Yes. K: That, and date of the building. How old the building is. So I think that’s really cool. I like the real estate laws, at least in my experience for residential real estate, there aren’t those wild fluctuations like there are in the United States. And so, for me, I think it’s really cool that you can save up a certain amount of money and have the down payment and all of that and pretty much know how much the property is going to be for basically what you want to buy. So, like, 1DKs, 5 minutes walk from a subway station/train station all go for about the same amount of price. C: Well, that’s the twenty-year slump. Because before that there was a real estate bubble, especially in Tokyo. K: Yeah, I’m not talking about Tokyo. Tokyo the real estate is still kind of wack. C: Yeah, real estate is still a lot more fraught in Tokyo. But Nagoya is pretty stable. K: For me, what I like about it is that there’s government loans that once you’re a permanent resident that you can get that are like 2% interest. C: Yeah, there are some 0% mortgages. K: Yeah, and I think that’s awesome. And all of the programs for like, first-time homeowners and all of that. I feel like there’s some socialized stuff going on there. C: Well, there’s the UR housing, too. I think the UR housing is really cool. The UR housing–I forget what UR stands for, it’s Urban Reconstruction or something completely different–I’m either dead on with that or I’m not even close–but it is social housing (K laughs) that doesn’t K: I’m sorry, just those options. I’m either dead on or not even close? (laughing) C: Yes. K: But we know for sure it’s UR. And I don’t know what that stands for. I can’t think of it. C: It’s housing that doesn’t depend on your income, so people with a high income and people with a low income are eligible to live there. You just put yourself on the list and wait until a place comes open. And I know that that’s available in some other countries as well. I know in Singapore most people live in social housing. Private property is really rare. In Japan, private property is not rare, but the UR is available there as an option. It’s different than in the US. In the US, if you think about public housing, you’re thinking low-income housing. You’re not just thinking the government providing housing options for people. K: Well, in California though they did start the below-market-rent for new real estate projects. For new apartment complexes there has to be a certain amount that goes for what below what the market is for the rent in that unit. C: Right, but the BMR is intended, again, to help people who are on the poorer end of income. So you can’t necessarily qualify for below-market rent if you have an above-average salary. K: So do you really think that these are the things that are cool about Japan? So, for me the reason that I think stable real estate is cool is because I find it easier to do straightforward investing. Like, I find real estate investing here to be really straightforward, and that’s cool to me. In the United States, I always felt like I was playing … rolling the dice. Like I was gambling. Like I was playing poker or craps or something. Or slots. Something that was just completely random and out of my control that had a little bit of skill. So I guess it was more poker than slots. And it just didn’t feel like a stable investment. I felt like when we sold our home, we were at the top of a bubble. But since we sold our home, I don’t think it’s worth what we sold it for anymore. C: It’s worth at least that now, because there’s been another bubble, so… K: Yeah, I’m not following California real estate. C: Well, I think that’s to do with the very low inflation. Inflation is around 0% in Japan and has been for the last 20 years. And that causes its own problems. So, I like the lack of inflation, but we don’t have a lot of debt. We don’t have any Japanese debt. K: We are like, so old. We are like, “the coolest thing is investing and inflation” (laughs). Like, what’s something hip and hot and trendy? That’s cool about Japan? So something that I’m disappointed in. C: Okay. K: I just want to shout out. The Pokemon games do not come out first in Japan, like I thought in the United States. They’re released the same time they’re released in the United States. C: Now they are. But when we came to Japan the first time, we bought Leaf Green and Fire Red before they were available in the US. Because remember they tried to tell us “These are only in Japanese. It’s illegal to take them from Japan.” K: Oh, yeah, I do remember that. But that was almost 15 years ago now. C: Yes. K: So I’m talking like, right now, in, what year is it? 2019. Right now in 2019, the … this is … that it’s just … it’s not technologically more advanced. C: So I get that you only care about Pokemon. (K laughs) As far as video games. K: Yes. Are there are other video? Am I wrong about this? C: You are wrong about this. K: I think not, sir. C: There are some Japanese games like… K: Disgaea? C: Disgaea comes out first in Japanese, yeah, by quite a lot. K: Really? Okay, what else? C: So that’s why I play in Japanese. It’s not because my Japanese is so awesome, it’s because it comes out a long time sooner. K: Your Japanese is awesome, babe. You need to step into your greatness. C: DragonQuest also comes out a lot sooner in Japanese. And then there are games that don’t ever come out in English because they’re either thought to be too Japanese-specific or that there’s not enough of a market to translate them and localize them to English. K: Okay. C: So, yeah, one of the cool things I can do is I can play Japanese games before playing … before people who don’t speak Japanese can play them. K: So, see, I feel really old because anime, manga, video games… that’s not what’s cool to me. Like, what’s cool to me is how fresh the produce is, and how tasty the fruit is. I feel like the fruit in Japan is smaller and sweeter. I feel like the produce in Japan is smaller and fresher and more flavorful. I feel like Japan just has, for me, … I don’t know, just more flavors. C: It depends on the fruit. Like our bananas usually come from the Philippines. K: Okay, which is the same as in the United States. C: Yeah. So the fruit is all labeled as far as where it comes from. But our oranges are almost always local. There are some kinds from Aichi, which is the prefecture where we live, so that means they’re within K: And the oranges… the mikans, oh my gosh. They are so tasty. They are so good. C: Or they might be from Mie or Gifu, which are nearby. K: And they are so sweet. So decadent. I absolutely love them. C: All of the dairy is basically from Japan. So as far as milk and butter and everything, it’s mostly from Hokkaido. But there’s some local stuff. So, I mean, there’s regional products that are cool. K: And I feel kind of cool for being able to make it in Japan. Because Japan is a hard fucking country… oops, I’m not supposed to be cursing. C: We talked about this. It’s fine. K: I know, but I’m just trying … I’m trying not to curse. C: Oh, okay. K: As much. As much. Because you know the f word is like my favorite word in the whole world. So, what was I saying? I completely lost my train of thought. C: You were saying Japan is a hard fucking country. K: (laughs) Yes, it is. Learning Japanese is hard. Building my business was hard. Just, being here everyday is hard. Going through the visa hustle was hard. C: Well, in 2018, Japan was voted the worst country in Asia to live in. K: Wow, did not know that. C: For foreigners. K: Why? C: Because of tough immigration laws, because of low pay. The low pay was a particular thing, because I think this was Forbes or somebody like that who did this. So, in Japan, the number of people who make more than a million dollars a year is really really low. K: Okay. C: So, like, heads of major corporations are almost always Japanese because if you’re foreign, you can go to Indonesia or Malaysia or something and make 5x the amount of money. Or you can go to the US and make 20x the amount of money. K: Really? C: Yes. K: See, and I happen to know some of the incomes of foreigners working in Japan. C: So, under a million dollars a year, it’s not a problem. But as soon as you start hitting that million dollars a year, your name gets published publicly, so K: Oh, yeah C: And the CEOs, it would be scandalous if a CEO was making, you know, 600x what a worker was making. K: Okay, yeah. So, I get that they’re trying to keep the gap low. But then they don’t count bonus as part of the income. C: That includes bonus. K: Really? C: Yeah, but the bonus system is also part of why it’s not great to work in Japan. K: Why? C: Because you don’t have a steady, reliable income. So in the US you might have certain professions, like stock trading or whatever, where a bonus is a big part of your income. But here in Japan, even factory workers, there bonus might be as much as 1/5th of their income. That happens twice a year. Now, traditionally, the bonus is 1 or 2 or 3 month’s pay, depending on the company. K: Well, and I think too there’s a lot of businesses that are shady. That don’t do bonuses. Because like the English-teaching industry is so super shady. And they don’t do bonuses. They don’t do… some companies do health care and pension and all of that, but some businesses don’t. And I think if you’re trying to become a permanent resident, that can really mess you up. C: Yes, it can. K: Because then you have to pay all your pension, and now you can only pay up to 3 years past pension. Which means that you know, you have to count from 3 years all the way through ten or possibly through 5 if you’re under 40 and meet the points system. So with all of that, that makes me feel like really cool and really strong, like “I did it.” I feel like “Dekita, motherfuckers, dekita!” with the permanent residency. Like, I made it. I’m here. I did it. C: Yes. K: And, man, I gambare’d my buns off. Because it was tough. Taihen desu yo! (laughs) C: Gambaremasu is “to endure”, so whenever you talk about something difficulty somebody will always say “gambate, ne!” which just means “suck it up!” K: Yes. “Do your best” is the polite translation, but it always feels like as an American it means “suck it up, buttercup.” C: Yep. K: And then my… I like saying “dekita” because little kids when they do something, they like to say “I did it!” because “dekimasu” is to do C: to be able to do, so “I was able to do it” K: And then, “taihen” is just like… that got me, man, when I was first here, everyone would say “taihen”. Oh, too bad. That’s tough for you, isn’t it. C: Yeah, “taihen” is literally “big strange” (K laughs) but what it really means is K: Yeah, nobody calls It big strange. C: What it really means is “that’s tough”. K: So I feel like I have persevered. I’m here. I’m still here, and I’m thriving. C: Well, and you got that permanent residency with a foreign husband. K: Yes, that’s always a huge… dust my shoulder off, dust both my shoulders off and pat myself on both shoulders because we did not do it the easy way. C: Japanese people are like “Oh, you got permanent residency. What part of Japan is your wife from?” K: Yeah. C: The California part. K: Thank you. C: Eeeeeeehhhhh? K: (laughs) The universal Japanese “I don’t believe you. That’s so amazing.” So, for me, doing it as two Americans over here together, I just look at something that’s cool that has nothing to do with Japan, but Japan has highlighted is how strong our partnership is. C: Yes. K: Because we did that as a team. That was a team effort, for me. C: Yes. I feel like picking Japan was a team effort, too, because we chose Japan for a lot of reasons. One of the reasons was transportation, which I’ve talked about before. And I have absolutely love where we live because it is so close to so many different options. So I never feel stuck just because I can’t drive. K: Yeah. But our son drives and has a car, so C: Yeah. K: I get driven everywhere. (laughs) I don’t take public transportation hardly anywhere. I’m like, “No.” C: I think it’s a different experience for you. K: Yes it is, because I get groped. So that is something that’s not cool about Japan. Something that’s really really shocking to me, that when it first happened, I didn’t know how to process it, is that people try and grope my breasts, and people grope my buttocks whenever I ride the train. And it’s not just false like “rocking into you” whoops. It’s seriously, hands open ready to get a squeeze-type groping. And I find if I can get a seat on the train that that doesn’t happen. C: Right. Well, and the fact that there are signs on all the trains saying “groping is a crime” is like “We need to remind you guys that groping is a crime. You can go to prison for this.” K: But there’s no way to prosecute it on the train. Like you know that that, you know, person is doing it deliberately. C: Yeah. You’ve gotta catch somebody and you’ve gotta make a big noise and a big stink K: But even making a big noise and a big stink it’s just… it’s sad to say, but for me it came down to “Do I want to have to have this argument? Do I want to have to drag them off the train? Make my commute longer. Make their comment longer. Well, I don’t really care about making their commute longer. But make my commute longer, go to the train station attendant, and then go to a police officer that’s not actually going to arrest them. C: Right. K: They don’t actually go to prison. They’ll get a stern talking to. C: And a fine. So there’s usually “compensation”. So that’s one thing about the Japanese legal system is that if you wrong somebody else, usually there’s some compensation included. So that’s one of the ways that the Japanese prison population is so low. K: Well, and too, I would have to get lucky and get a police officer who’s not biased against foreigner. C: So that’s what I’m saying… for you it’s a totally different experience. For me K: So that’s not cool about public transportation. But I still, like, all in all, I feel like there’s way less sexual harassment for me. Like, I don’t get catcalled. I don’t get approached. And I don’t … well, except for one incident, nobody has ever tried to like, kidnap me or anything. And all of this stuff happened in the United States on a regular basis. And I got groped all of the time in the United States. I got catcalled. I got people approaching me. C: I think when we met you were being stalked by like 5 or 6 guys. K: It wasn’t 5 or 6. I think it was like 3 or 4. C: Oh, okay, 3 or 4. And I know K: Yeah, 3 or 4 guys and a couple of women. C: Okay. So I guess I shouldn’t have said “guys”, I should have said “people”. Because I know you were being stalked by multiple people, and when you and I became friends… a lot of them stopped. K: Because I moved. C: Yes, you moved. K: And made it nowhere to find me because I moved quick and stealthy. C: But you also had people stalking you on campus. K: Yes, I did. C: And I introduced myself to them. And they stopped. K: Yep. They did. So, for me, I guess I’ve never felt like physical safety was a thing I had a lot of in the United States. C: Yeah, I didn’t think so either. K: But here in Japan, I feel like I have a lot of physical safety. I think the size of the people, that a lot of people are my height, helps a lot. And the fact that I’m a lot heavier helps a lot. And the fact that, aside from the groping on the train and the one instance where a guy tried to run me down with his car when we first moved here… aside from those things, I feel really safe. Which probably for people who have never experienced these things is probably like “What the heck? How could she feel safe with someone trying to run her down with a car?” But that was, gosh, like 9 years ago now? C: Yeah. K: (laughing) And it was shattering. C: We’ve been in this place for ten years, so it must be more than K: More than ten years, then. So for me, that was shattering and disturbing and one of the reasons we ended up in this place. C: Right. K: And so, for me, that was tough, and made me question being in Japan. But then since we’ve moved here, there really hasn’t been any of that. Since we moved here, and since I don’t ride the train standing up, now I know I need to sit down and I go to great lengths to make sure that I’m… that I can always have a seat on the train. Like, I figured out how to move through the world without being physically assaulted. C: And I think because the patterns are so rigid, you can do that. K: Yeah, and so, for me, it sucks that people think they can touch my body without my permission. That will always suck. I think a cool thing about Japan is that it’s so much easier for me to limit it. So much easier for me to just avoid it. Whereas, in the United States, I felt like everywhere I went all of the time… like, for me, going to the grocery store here in Japan, I don’t worry about somebody following me around in the grocery store. And I don’t worry about somebody, like, accosting me in an empty aisle. Which happened to me several times in the United States. And I don’t worry about somebody walking up on me when I’m in my car because at the grocery store, there are security guards. C: Yes. K: In the parking lot, and so someone couldn’t do that without being seen to do that. And inside the mall, there’s a lot of security as well. So with the increased security, I feel better protected because it just seems to me like Japan is more aware of some of the skeevy stuff that goes on. C: Yeah. K: Because there’s all kinds of posters about the skeeviness and saying “Hey, knock it off, this is illegal.” Like, looking up people’s skirts, putting mirrors to look up skirts, that’s illegal, taking photographs of people, that’s illegal. Filming under people’s skirts, that’s illegal. And, in the United States, these kinds of things happen all the time. C: Yes. K: Like, all the time. And so, you know, there wasn’t any day that I walked down the street in the United States that somebody didn’t catcall me or somebody didn’t approach me with some sort of sexual innuendo or some sort of sexual intent, and that just doesn’t happen to me here. So that’s really cool for me, to be free of that. (laughs) C: Yeah, that is cool for you. K: Because I thought like gaining weight meant that that would stop, and that wasn’t the case. So I didn’t find that my weight gain deterred anyone. C: Well, I mean, you stayed gorgeous and you stayed a woman. And either of those was seen as “enough” in the US. K: But the first one, “Awww”, and the second one, “Dammit!” Why does being a woman make that possible? So how is that experience for you? The fact that I get assaulted less. C: I mean it’s good for me that you get assaulted less. … That was something that always disturbed me in the US, and something that I did what I knew how to do within the bounds of the law to prevent in the US. K: And I always encourage you to stay within the bounds of the law. Like, I don’t want you to give up your liberty because that asshole decided to be crazy. C: Yes. So, that’s a positive for me. I feel like I know the route to your office. I know when I should expect you back. Something that we don’t always talk about but, there is a black book that in case something happens to you, like to find out who you were with at the time. K: Yeah. Well, and too, my office manager is across the hall from me. And my office manager pops in in-between sessions, and takes me home. So, there’s not any point in the day where it’s ever okay for someone to not lay eyes on me for longer than whatever a session length is. And I find if I’m doing sessions that are longer than 90 minutes, usually my office manager is in those sessions providing some sort of support as well. C: Mmhmm, childcare or language or.. K: Yeah. Because I have done 12 hour sessions. Not my favorite. But sometimes it’s what’s necessary for the situation if it’s a crisis situation, to help somebody come out of crisis. And that’s different. Everybody knows going into that that it’s going to be an extended period of time. But it’s tough sometimes. There are people who have made me feel really really uncomfortable. And I just invite not to come back. And say “I’m sorry, this dynamic isn’t working for me. It makes me feel uncomfortable.” So, for the most part, I do feel a lot safer in Japan than I did in the United States. For me, I felt like… I feel like being groped in Japan if I’m on public transportation is probably inevitable… sad to say that, for me, that’s like “heavy sigh” but doesn’t ruin my day. But in the United States, I felt like I was in threat of being abducted on a regular basis. I was worried about abduction. Because I did have people try and grab my arm and lead me out of a store. I did have people approach me next to my vehicle and try and lure me out or push their way in. So I have had cases and scenarios where it felt like “Okay, this person is trying to abduct me for the purpose of assault.” C: Right. K: And fortunate for me, I was able to get out of those situations. C: Yeah, I feel like I’m a lot safer, too. In the US, people did want to assault me for some reason. I don’t get why. And there’s a particular kind that happens here more frequently than it did in the US, but that’s when I’m out walking with my cane, there are some people who ride their bike directly at me… to try and make me move. Or walk rapidly directly at me, to try and make me move, like, to dodge. And I’m like “Umm, no.” (K laughs) K: Don’t let the cane fool you. Don’t hurt yourself. Don’t mess around and get hurt. C: There was a guy on a bike. Must have been probably 60 years old. I’m a foot taller than him. A hundred pounds heavier. He thought because he had a bike he could just ride at me. He rode at me, and I wasn’t moving, so he swerved the last moment. Not enough to avoid clipping soldiers. And he fell, and I kept on stepping. So I’m surprised by that kind of aggression. But, you know, that used to happen to me when I was teenager, too, in Alaska. K: Well, and that happened to you as an adult in the US as well. I think it’s the beard, man. I really do. Because people react so bizarre to your beard. C: Yeah, like it’s a threat. K: Or like it gives them an excuse to treat you as… I don’t know… as something that they can reach out and touch or something that they can have contact with. You know? So I think that’s weird, that you’re just a bearded man. C: But it does happen less frequently here. K: And I find other bearded men that I know have the same experience. Because you have a long beard. It’s not a close-cropped beard. And it’s absolutely stunning. Absolute gorgeous. I love it. It’s beautiful and sexy. So, but I feel like living in Japan is cool, and I feel like it’s safer, but I don’t know if you do. C: Yeah, I feel like it’s safer. It’s definitely safer for me to have ways to get around that don’t involve me driving. Because I did drive (K laughs) for quite a long time after I should have. K: Yeah, not safe. Completely not cool. But that’s because we didn’t fully understand your seizure disorder. C: Correct. K: And the doctors weren’t able to give us clear answers and so we did lots of research and figured it out for ourselves, and then did what was safe for you. C: Yeah, so I feel safer here. I feel like one cool thing is taxes. K: Okay? C: They’re just so much more straightforward here. K: How so? C: So, in the United States, they estimate the burden of filing your taxes is something like 8 hours per person, on average. K: Oh, yeah. And here it’s like 15 minutes. C: Yeah. For the whole family. So when I was … had regular employment, I would just go down once a year and say “Yep, that was my income.” and they would say “great, your taxes are done” and that was the whole thing. (K laughs) There’s not a long form. You just go down and tell them what your income was and they file it and you’re done. K: Yeah, and even having a business it’s that straightforward. It’s so less complicated. And how much proof I have to have is so less compared to the proof I would have to have in the United States, even if I were to be audited the proof that I need to have is so much less. C: Yes. K: And because I invoice, the invoices are the only proof that I need. C: Right. K: So that’s really nice for me. C: So I feel like with taxes, they’re a lot more straightforward, and I feel like it’s a lot fairer. K: Hmm. C: Now there are some wonky things about timing and such. They expect that you’ll stay at the same job for your entire life. K: Yeah. C: So if you quit a job, that can cause some discomfort as they try to figure out what to do with you between now and the next ‘reset’ period. K: Yeah, well, no, they don’t… spend any time trying to figure out what to do with you. They just tell you “we’re keeping everything at these levels. Even if you’re making less money, we don’t care. For this term, this is how much we’re going to charge you because this is what we expect you to make this time.” C: Or even if you’re making more money. K: So it can work positively or negatively. … So there were some things that I thought were cooler about the United States than Japan. For me, I just like the amount of snack foods. C: I was thinking that K: In the United States C: There’s a much wider variety of snack foods in the United States. K: And… the roads. I liked how wide the roads are. I don’t like the narrowness of the roads here. I liked how wide the roads were, and I liked the freeways. A lot. Like, I loved 280. I loved 101. I didn’t like 17 so much because it was always so crowded. So these are highways in Northern California. And 280 is just really wide and through the mountains and just a beautiful ride, to me. And I haven’t really found as many scenic rides in Japan. I think I will now that Rasta has a car. But I miss those scenic drives. C: I think that’s just where we live. Because we live in a major urban city. I think if you look at, you know, in California, we lived in a major urban city and to get scenic you had to get out of the city first. K: But it was really quick to get out of the city where we lived. C: Yeah, there was that. Because I went on some business retreats that were in really pretty places. And we’ve gone some pretty places, like Nikko and Asahikawa and things. K: And something I absolutely loved loved loved about California, Northern California specifically, was Bay Area Backroads. There was this TV show that was on in the 90s, and it was called Bay Area Backroads, and this dude would go somewhere cool every episode. He’d go to one or two places that were out of the way and fun to go for families. He would talk all about it, and then you can could go and do and have that experience. And I find that I just, now that Rasta has a car, I look at the Nagoya City website, and there are a lot of, like Bay Area Backroads-type experiences. And the last time there was the turning of the leaves, Rasta and I did find a scenic road that had just really beautiful foliage. And over the last holiday season, we did manage to find a couple houses, like driving around, that were doing Christmas, with the lights, timed to music, and all of that. So…. C: I think there’s an obsession with seasonality in Japan that there’s not in the United States. K: I think maybe in California there’s not the obsessions. But I’ve been places that talk about it a little bit. At least other Americans talk about they have a lot of seasonality. But you’re saying the passion? C: I’m saying the passion for being seasonal. That making it so special. And I think that contributes to some of the differences, especially in snack foods, where here there’s, you know, you can go to the Kit Kat Konfectionary and get, you know, 40 different flavors of Kit Kat. And most of them are “limited time” flavors. K: Yes. C: So a lot of the different, if I really like a food and it’s seasonal. K: I’m not into Kit Kat. I’m sorry. I like them, but I’m just not into Kit Kat. C: I’m not saying Kit Kat specifically. I mean, Kit Kit Konfectionary is K: Yeah, there really is a Kit Kat C: But I’m saying as far as snack foods, when you’re saying one cool thing about the US is variety of snack foods, I think it’s because they’re all available at once. I think if you took over three years and you say “Okay, what was ever available”, the variety of snack food in Japan would be similar. K: What do you mean? C: There are so many foods that are only available at certain times of year, for no particular reason. K: So for me there’s one particular snack food I absolutely miss. And that’s ice cream sandwiches. I absolutely miss ice cream sandwiches. And I thought Japan had ice cream sandwiches for a hot minute. C: They did. It was a limited time thing. K: And they haven’t had them since. C: And they had Jiffy Pop for a limited time. K: And I’m “What the what, Japan?” Like, “What’s good, Japan?” C: Right, because microwave popcorn kind of works in our microwave. But when we saw Jiffy pop, because we have a gas stove, we can make Jiffy pop. And the Jiffy pop was here for like three weeks before they said “Okay, we’re done with that.” K: Yeah, that was heart-breaking. And these aren’t like we’re going to specialty stores. We’re going to the regular grocery store, buying what’s off the shelves, and so… the shelves, like there are some staples that are always available like rice and pasta and usually bread. But bread is not always available. And so I guess, yeah, I do miss the reliability of just going to the grocery store and knowing what’s going to be there. C: Yes. K: That was really cool. And lunch meat! Jiminy crickets. When we went to Spain, that was one of the things I loved most about Spain was they had lunch meat. C: And more than just ham. Because ham is available here as lunch meat. K: Where do you mean? C: You can get ham, slice ham is easily available here. K: Like the really thing how I like C: No, not the really thing K: So then it’s not lunch meat, the one I’m talking about. I’m talking about the super-thin sliced lunch meat. C: Okay, yeah, no this is double and triple thickness. It’s not the Budig super thin. K: So I like the highly processed, really bad for you, highly process and pressed thin sliced lunch meat. C: Right. So that kind of stuff K: Or like a deli select. Deli select is not a highly processed and bad for you. Deli select is good. C: That kind of stuff I think you’d have to go to a butcher here and pay 40 or 50 dollars a pound for it. K: Do you think they’d be able to do it? C: At 40 or 50 dollars a pound, they’d be able to do it. K: For the turkey? C: Yeah. K: Really? So you think you can get oven roasted honey turkey? C: I think to get oven roasted honey turkey, you’d have to order it early K: Oh my gosh C: You’d have to buy 20 lbs of it K: Yeah, no, ain’t nobody got time for that. C: It’d cost you $80, at minimum. K: No. Not anybody got time or that. And so I find Japan to be a trip because Japan will run out of chocolate chip cookies. Butter. Milk. Bread. Like, things in the United States you could never run out of. And yes I did start with chocolate chip cookies. And so I love that in the United States I could always get chocolate cookies, bread, milk, and butter, any time I wanted to. And bagels! I could buy a bagel any time of day! C: Yes. K: Like, I could just wake up at 2 in the afternoon and go get a bagel if I wanted to. (laughs) C: There are days, you’re like “I’m really in the mood for a bagel. Can you go to the store and get me a bagel?” And I just say “No, it’s Tuesday.” (K laughs) “Sorry, no bagels on Tuesdays.” K: Yeah, so, the United States has a lot of stuff that it does right, and Japan has a lot of stuff that it does right, and I don’t feel like either country is perfect. But, for me, I guess I don’t really think of living in Japan as cool, as honest. I mean, I know I said there are things that are cool about living in Japan, but to me I’m just getting up living my life. And that life happens to be in Japan. C: Yes. K: And I have social and political reasons for why I’m making that making that choice every day, but in terms of being cool or kitschy or fun… that’s not what motivates me. C: No, I think it’s different. So I think if you’re in the US and you see Japanese products, like I know Pocky has become popular in the US K: Pocky? C: Pocky, yeah. K: Pocky is good stuff. C: Pocky is good stuff, yeah. And it’s been discovered in the US. People were importing it. I guess they’re shipping it directly so you don’t have to import it anymore. But we get seasonal pocky. K: Mmhmm. C: Like, you know, sometimes I can get “Gentleman’s Flavor” Pocky. K: And there’s always sakura-flavored special, cherry-blossom flavor. Which is interestingly enough, the cherry-blossom flavors are usually strawberry, which I think are strawberry. Which I think is so interesting. Why aren’t they plum or cherry? C: You can’t tell the difference but those are cherry. K: What? C: You can’t tell the differences between actual cherry and artificial strawberry, so you think that they are artificial strawberry. They’re actually cherry. K: So are you saying that actual cherry tastes like artificial strawberry? C: I’m saying that actual cherry tastes like artificial strawberry to you. K: Okay. I’ll take that. C: Yes. K: (laughs) You say “Yes” like I have no choice. I could reject that, sir. C: It’s like some people with the cilantro gene, where it tastes like soap to them. K: What? C: Some people have a genetic thing where cilantro tastes like soap. K: Okay…? C: And some people do not. K: Okay. I will be Googling this after the show. C: You should. In college I had to do this in my biology class. They had cilantro and we tasted it and recorded how many people it tasted like soap and how many people it didn’t. Because they know it’s one specific gene that controls it. I think you have the gene that where actual cherries taste like artificial strawberries. K: No, when I eat cherries, and the cherries here are so good… they’re so expensive when they’re not in season, and then not available, just randomly cut you off, cherries aren’t available anymore… they don’t taste anything like artificial strawberry to me. C: But you buy the American cherries. K: So what are you saying? I don’t feel like I buy the American cherries. C: You specifically buy them. They’re called “American cherry.” K: Yeah, but I don’t think they really come from America. C: They really come from America. (K laughs) Most of the cherries grown in Japan (K continues laughing) are not sold as fruit to be eaten, they’re used in other things. K: Okay, because interestingly the American cherries are cheaper. C: Yes. K: So that’s why I thought “these can’t be imported” because they’re imported. C: Yes. But they’re imported. K: And so they’re not. Because there will like randomly be super cheap and then super expensive. C: Yeah, they’ll randomly go from $3 a pound to $35 a pound. K: Yeah. And I love the apple pears. Which is something I discovered after moving to Japan. Love ‘em. They are amazing. C: I miss grapples, though. K: What do you mean? Grape apples? C: I haven’t seen those here. K: No, I haven’t. You know I’ve only ever seen grapples at Cosentino’s in Santa Clara. I’ve never seen them anywhere else. Have you? C: I’m not sure. That’s where we bought them at. That’s where we shopped, so… I don’t know. K: Shout out to Cosentino’s in Santa Clara. I hope they’re still there. They’re an amazing store. I loved everything about shopping at that store. It was an awesome experience. Always felt really good to shop there. C: Yep. And across the street was the Albertson’s or Safeway or whoever had bought them at the moment, just kind of struggling along. K: So I guess to sum up today, living in Japan is cool and awesome, but not for any novel reasons, just for, I guess, the reasons that brought us here in the first place. C: So if you’re going to come as a tourist, it’s really cool because everything’s going to be new. K: Yeah, and you’ve gotta go to monkey park and see the Great Buddha. One of the Great Buddhas. Or all of the Great Buddhas. There’s so many things to do. And I do enjoy being a tourist, but I’m not into going to castles and shrines anymore. C: If you come here, you’re going to go through the honeymoon … to live … you’re going to go through the honeymoon period, where for a few months, everything is perfect, Japan can do no wrong. K: Mmm. Some people don’t even get that. C: Yeah. I’m sad for them. K: Depends on like… ‘cause for me the first time I came, I did not experience any honeymoon period. That apartment was atrocious. C: Oh, yeah, no, that was rough. K: Yeah. So, depending on where you land C: Depending on where you land K: And how you well you set it up. C: And then there’s the “through of disillusionment” I think is the academic term for it, where you realize that “Oh, man, Japan is an actual place with actual people, not everything is great about it.” And then some people adjust to that and like it, and some people leave Japan. K: Yep. I always advise everybody to give Japan six months before you decide. And, for me, if you hate your job, quit. Because that is … now this is something I do think is cool… Japan’s visas are not attached to your job, so it doesn’t matter where you work, it matters what you do for work. C: Right. K: So you can quit your job, and then be unemployed the entire rest of your visa, and it won’t be an issue until you need to renew. You have to let immigration know and say “hey, I’m looking for a job”, but it won’t affect your ability to stay in the country. C: In contrast with the US, where if you quit your job you have to get a new visa because your job is tied to your visa. It’s the same way in Korea, but probably most of our listeners don’t live in Korea. And now they’ve combined some of the visa types. It used to be if you wanted to be an engineer, which included software engineers, you had to have 10 years of experience. K: Or a degree. C: No. It used to be you had to have 10 years of experience to be an engineer. K: Okay. C: The only one with “or a degree” was the “international services / humanities” … the English-teaching visa. K: Or the therapist visa. C: Nope. Oh, yeah, the therapist visa because that’s under the K: That’s a humanities visa. C: That’s under international services because you’re dealing primarily with international people. So, they combined that with the engineer visa because they could not find enough qualified software engineers with 10 years experience who wanted to move to Japan for a 60% pay cut. So… now, most of the software engineering people coming over come from India, where I think it’s slightly higher wages than in India. K: So Japan is like anywhere else. There’s good and bad. C: Yeah. K: And I think the United States is like anywhere, where there’s good and bad. It just depends on what your value systems are, and what you want from the place that you live. What your expectations are. And I think with, with good expectations comes a good outcome. C: So for me my happiness is not dependent upon living in Japan, but the way that I’m happy is built around Japan. K: Yep. C: And if we lived somewhere else, the way that I would be happy would be built around that place. K: Yep. Well said. C: Thank you. K: So that sums us up for today guys. Thanks for tuning in and listening to another ramble. (laughs) Another interesting conversation between me and my honey. C: That’s me. K: So we hope that you tune in next time. C: Yes, we do. K: Bye. C: Bye bye.

K: So lately I’ve been thinking about how we make our money. Mostly because people have been asking how do we make our money? Like, what are we doing here in Japan? C: Counterfeiting. (K laughs) K: As if! I’m an okay artist, but my art skills aren’t that level. And where would we even find the paper that it’s on? C: I’m not sure, and I think that’s the point. K: Yeah. C: The Japanese money is way harder to counterfeit than the old-style American money. K: Yeah, so, what type of paper do they use? Because they have like–I think it’s really cool the Japanese money has a raised thing for braille, has a braille indicator of how much the bill is. C: Yeah, it does. I think it’s just like a natural fiber and some plastics and I’m not quite sure everything that goes into it. It’s also got holographic images on it if you hold it up to light. K: Yeah. So, we’re not counterfeiters. C: No, no. K: So now you know what we’re not doing to make our money. C: Wink, wink. K: So I think everybody pretty much knows that I’m a therapist by now, if they’ve listened to any of our other episodes. But I think what they might not be aware of is that I didn’t start out being a therapist. I think we both started out… well, the first time we came, I came as a student. C: Yes. K: And then, the second time we came, we came C: with me as an English teacher. K: Yeah. And then you taught English for a little bit before going back to school and then you went to Mei-dai and earned your PhD. C: Yeah, so I taught English for a little bit, which is kind of a standard job for somebody college-educated who speaks English natively, which is one of the reasons that it took us so long to get to Japan is because I didn’t have a college degree before we came. K: Mmhmm. C: So I had to finish that before we could come on a work visa. And then we were on a business visa for a while because I used to be a programmer, so I was doing freelance programming. K: Mmhmm. C: And then we switched to a student visa. K: Mmhmm. C: And then we switched to a professor visa, because I was doing a post-doc and doing some teaching at the graduate level. K: Mmhmm. C: And then we switched to a humanities visa, which is the English-teaching visa but also includes “International Services”, so that’s when I was working as an editor. K: Yeah. So, you did have your degree before we came. You didn’t have your degree when I came. C: Correct. And we did not have… I did not have my degree when we decided to come. K: Yeah. Yeah. So, I think that one of the easiest ways to come to Japan is get a 4-year college degree and then get a job teaching English. Something about the English-teaching jobs, though, that I think everyone should know is that they do not pay to relocate you. C: No. K: And so, it’s… you’ve gotta save money. So you’ve gotta work for like a year or something or work while you’re in college and then save the money to move yourself here. And that’s like, the flight and moving your stuff, however much stuff you want to bring. C: Right. K: And the setting up of the apartment. Like, your furniture, and all of that. C: Yes. And I think that industry is something we could do a whole podcast on. It’s not the point. But both of us have worked in that industry. K: Yes. C: And neither of us work in that industry anymore. K: So, I taught English for … a minute … and I did the English schools “eikaiwa”, and towards the end of my English-teaching career, I was doing freelance English teaching. I was doing traveling, “dispatch”, rather, dispatch English teaching. And it was through when I was working for a bunch of different companies that I met a young that man had hikkikomori, which is, he was a shut-in. And we experimented with creating another persona with the English personality being different than the Japanese personality, so that they could go out in the world. And that led to me working with other individuals with hikkikomori, and then from there, when you were working for one of the international schools, I started working with that international school, and then from there I started working with all of the international schools. And through working with the international schools I started working with the Child Protective Services here in Japan, and several Ward offices, and then the criminal justice system… so, I get referrals from the government. I get referrals from schools. I work with a lot of the professionals that come over here for, like, Toyota or Mitsubishi or Lockheed Martin. Any of the myriad of companies that have opportunities for individuals to come here, I work with them. C: And you’re an approved provider for some of the travel insurance programs for students and things, so I know that you’ve gotten some referrals from them. I know that was a lot of paperwork to get that approval. K: Yes, it was. A lot of rigamarole. Umm, so yeah. Several international insurers, I am the preferred provider in Nagoya. So I have a lot of referral sources, and I’m very fortunate in that the majority of my clients are very happy with the work that we do. And so I get a lot of word-of-mouth referrals. C: By “we”, you mean Adjustment Guidance. K: Yes. C: Not you and me. You and your people. K: Yeah. So, my therapy practice is called Adjustment Guidance, and usually people don’t like it the first time they hear that name. I know you didn’t like it. C: I’m the one who came up with it. K: You did not like it when we first, when we were talking about it. You kept suggesting other names. C: Yeah. Because I second-guess myself. K: Yeah, and you came up… I came up with the “Adjustment” part, you came up with the “Guidance” part. I wanted to be accepting about… I wanted “Adjustment” in the name. C: Well, at the time what we were talking about was helping people adjust to life in Japan. K: Well, for me at the time I was talking about helping people adjust to their truth, but “Adjustment Truth” is just not … (both laugh) … I feel like that name’s a little bit too full-on. C: That’s like a Biblical name. In 1880, Adjustment Truth said… K: Yeah. So, now that you’re a freelance writer, how are you pulling that off in Japan? C: I write words, and sometimes people give me money for them, and sometimes they don’t, depending. I do volunteer for some organizations. And I also do freelance editing, so I’ve edited a few books, and you can find on the website some lists of people who have agreed to go public that they used my services. K: And what’s our website? C: Our website is themusicksinjapan.com and musicks is m-u-s-i-c-k-s. K: Yeah. The old English spelling of musics. C: Yes. K: Of music. And then it’s plural because we’re two people. C: Yes we are. K: So we’re the Musicks in Japan. C: Despite rumors otherwise. K: So you’re also… you’ve also written a couple of novels that were.. that we have sent off to see if any agents are interested in C: Yes, so I’ve written a couple of novels. I’m working on my fourth one now, and probably three of those will be eventually be published. (K laughs) The first one is kind of … trying out how to write a novel, and the answer was “Not That Way”. And I have poetry and short stories and sometimes those are paying markets. So, umm, that doesn’t pay enough to pay the bills, but working solidly for more than 5 years as an editor let us save up some money, so… At some point I may decide to self-publish. I think that’s a valid route to go. It presents some obstacles and presents some opportunities that differ from traditional publishing. And I think that’s mostly what I do. So, I’m mostly a copy editor, so in fiction, there’s developmental editors, where they tell you what’s wrong with your story, and copy editors, where they tell you what’s wrong with your words. I tell people what’s wrong with their words in the sense of how well they’re expressing what they want to express. If anybody follows us on Twitter, they’ll know that I’m not somebody who goes around correcting people’s grammar and spelling. K: Yeah. You’re not the grammar police, which I greatly appreciate. I feel like if you are on Twitter policing grammar… like, come on, now? What’s that about? Twitter’s just fun. Twitter’s just like you don’t think about it, you just dash it off, like, as you’re walking from your car to your house. It should be like, for me, it should be easy breezy. But every now and then I do tweet something a little bit deeper. But I like just, like… jacked-up spelling, no grammar, crazy emojis… I love those kinds of tweets. C: For me, it’s pretty simple. Two things: One they’re not paying me to correct their tweets. K: Word! (laughs) C: And two, everybody needs an editor if they’re going to be perfection. K: Yeah. C: So I have editors that I swap services with, so we don’t pay each other. So editors use editors. K: But not for Twitter. C: Not for Twitter, no. For Twitter, I do my own editing. And I still miss things. K: And every now and then I’ll have you edit my tweets if I’m saying something serious, I’ll be like “Hey, can you look at this tweet?” But for the most part, I feel like, “Okay, if you go to our Twitter feed”–and we’re @TheMusicks on Twitter–and if you go to our Twitter feed you can tell who tweeted what by whether there’s any misspellings.” Because if there’s a misspelling it’s a really safe bet it’s my tweet. C: But if there’s a missing word, it might be my tweet. K: Sometimes I spell the word “anything” without an A without a Y… it’s just a word jumble. Because my typing… like, I’m a fierce three-finger typer, but if I use all of my fingers, I will just hit random keys. C: Yes. K: So if I’m typing quickly, like… I’m like, this is a word jumble. C: You type like a hacker in a movie. (K laughs) K: I do! (continues laughing) And I produce just about the same kind of gibberish they would. Ooh, have you seen that Twitter feed “I’m a [something] in a movie” and then they describe it? C: Yes. K: I love that thread. I think it’s so clever. I haven’t contributed to it, but I always think of like “Ooh, I’m a this-or-that in a movie…”, like when I’m watching movies and then I think “Okay, I should tweet that.” C: Well, you’re a ghost in a movie. You don’t have fingers, so you can’t type that tweet. K: So, I find that I make a very, for me, what I consider to be a comfortable and happy living being a therapist in Japan. For me, English teaching wasn’t my jam because I wanted to be doing therapy. C: Right. K: I think that English teaching is a good job, depending on the eikaiwa structure. The English-teaching school that you work for, or the company that you’re working for. Because not all English-teaching companies are the same. And not all English-teaching companies are the… like, if you go online and you read a bad review for one of the companies, that’s not to say that that’s going to be your experience. Because there is not symmetry, I find, from school to school. It’s a rare, rare company that actually has symmetry from school to school, even when they do massive trainings and all of that. It depends on the manager, both managers, the English… native-English speaking manager and the Japanese-national manager. So most schools have two managers, and if both of those managers are cool people with a mellow vibe, then the school is cool and mellow. If even just one of those managers has an issue with you, then life can be pretty challenging. C: I think it depends on your temperament, too, just like any job. I couldn’t be a therapist, just temperamentally. K: Really? C: Yeah, I couldn’t. K: Why not? C: I think that listening to all of those problems… I have a lot of empathy for them, and I would want to solve them immediately, and I think I would experience a lot of frustration if I couldn’t solve them. Like, if somebody said “Oh, you know, so and so is being abusive to me.” I’d be like “Where are they at, and I’m gonna go kick their ass!” Even though I’ve never been in a fight as an adult. K: But there’s a good portion of my clients–because I do a free intake for everyone–and there’s a good portion of my business that people get that one intake and they’re good. C: Sometimes people just need to know that there’s somebody out there. K: No, sometimes we’re able to, like, get to the heart of things and wrap it up in one session. C: Well you’re just that good. K: (laughing) It’s not true for everybody. And thank you. I will take the compliment. But I always look at… I am honored and humbled by people letting me, allowing me into their process. And I believe that the number one thing I provide is objectivity and a sounding board. So, the number one thing is objectivity, the number two thing is a sounding board, the number three thing is a safe space. And all of that mixed in with confidentiality… some people just come in and they just need someone to just talk it out with just once, and they can find their own answers. And sometimes people come in and it really is just “change this one thing” and everything gets better. C: Well, I think some of us, like me, were raised to have a lot of self-doubt. And so it can be helpful to have somebody who you can express your self-doubts to, and they can help you understand what’s objective and what’s not about them. K: Yeah. C: So you and I have never had a therapeutic relationship in that way. K: No, that would be incredibly inappropriate. I don’t have any objectivity when it comes to you. None. C: Right. K: I’m so in that. (laughs) C: But, we provide each other a lot of comfort, emotionally. K: Absolutely. C: Physically, too, but that’s a different podcast. K: (laughing) Completely different show, because that is not how we make our money. C: No, it’s not. Nothing wrong with that, but K: No, yeah, we’re completely sex positive and sex-work positive, but we’re just.. I feel like I don’t have enough energy to do sex work these days. C: Mmm. K: I feel that is just like, I don’t know. I’d have to put makeup on and like that’s a whole thing, and I’d have to do my hair and that’s a whole thing, and then I’d have to put on something sexy and that’s a whole thing. So. C: Well, for me, most of what I’ve edited has been non-fiction, because, you know, I have my PhD and people want to send me stuff because I know the words. I won’t make them say something they’re not saying. But number two after non-fiction is actually erotic romance novels. K: Yeah. C: I’ve edited a bunch of those. So, it’s work like anything else. K: And then I find that when I write erotica—because I’ve written erotica a couple times—I just want to send it to you. I don’t want anybody else to read it. So it feels very… when I write it, it’s very specific to you. And so that’s why I don’t write erotica. C: Well, and I don’t either. I write surrealism. K: So why don’t you write erotica? I think you’d be good at it. C: I think I would be too, but my heart wouldn’t be in it. So, for me, I see the world very differently from how most people see it, and part of the reason that I write …. long form things, novels in particular, is that I want to share something with the world. I want to change the way people think. K: So I think you touched on something very important about what we’re doing now for our money. We’re both doing what makes our heart sing for money. So, for me, it really does make my heart sing to work with couples, individuals, and families, in helping them have more good days than bad and with the goal being more good days than bad, it just feels like I’m putting positivity out into the world, and it’s very fulfilling for me. And so, when I go to work, I find my work very fulfilling, and I’m so grateful and humble that I can be paid for doing something I love. And I don’t agree with the statement that “if you do what you love…” C: “You’ll never work a day in your life?” You’ll still work. K: Yeah, no. It’s still work. I’m still working. There are still challenges to it. But I really do, really do love what I do. And at this time in my life I really can’t see anything else I’d want to do, and so this really feels like my path. And I feel fortunate that this is something I can do well into my senior years, provided I don’t get Alzheimer’s. So, and the older I get, the better I get at it, and I really dig that aspect of being a therapist. Nobody is like “Oh, you’re 65, you have no wisdom. You’re 70, have no wisdom.” They’d be like “Dang, you know ‘cause you’ve lived!” (C laughs) C: Well, because you’ve been doing this since you were in your 20s. K: Yes, I have, and so, for me, it’s just super fulfilling. How is writing for you? Because I think of you more as a writer than I do as an editor, at this point in your life. C: I think at this point. So I think what I do to make money in the immediate is people pay me now to edit. But I’m obviously hoping to sell books. So I’m hoping that at some point the bulk of my income comes from selling my own writing, rather than from helping other people adjust their writing to sell. I think of myself as a writer, too. Do you know, in high school I was voted most likely to win a Pulitzer. K: No, I didn’t know that. C: Yes, yes. K: Wow, the layers just keep peeling away. This is like the never-ending onion. C: So even though I ended up going to school for math, in high school I was known for writing. K: And I’ve read some of your high-school writing, it was really good. C: Thank you. K: It’s what made me think that you should be a writer, and I’ve been pushing you towards this for two decades now. C: Thank you, and I don’t think that no matter what I will ever win a Pulitzer because it’s focused on the American experience, so I think I’m kind of the wrong thing for that. Most of my books are not focused on the American experience. They have international elements to them and things. So, I’ve always known that I wanted to be a writer. But I took the easier path of doing computer programming because I was doing that for fun on a game, and people said to me, “Hey, do you know you can come to Silicon Valley and make a lot of money at this, because you’re really good at it?” K: Mmm. Yeah. C: And so that’s when I moved to California, which was shortly after I graduated from high school. And then things from there have kind of taken a winding road, and getting back into writing is a really nice thing for me. I liked teaching kids, middle-school kids in particular, math, but K: But the bureaucracy that comes with that. C: Yeah, the bureaucracy and, too, the heartbreak of it. I had kids crying because they didn’t get the grade they wanted because they didn’t do the homework. Which I was required to grade them on, and… the whole thing of it, you know. Just, telling kids what they’re worth based on their grades. There’s got to be a better way. I don’t know that better way. K: Yeah. I feel like the education system is built really well for some kids and not really well for others. Because our kid aged out of traditional school at age 12, and so he… in California, you take a test to graduate high school. And so he did graduate high school. He took the test. And he entered college at that very young age. And we were alerted that it was going to be an issue in second grade. And so in second grade, his teacher was angry at him for reading Lord of the Rings by himself and was like “You can’t really be reading this book”, and so then we had to go in and he had to stay after school and actually read from the book to her, tell her what the story was about, and prove that he was reading it. And then from that moment, it was on. For him and her. He would start correcting her spelling when she would write on the board. And then he was going up to third grade for math and being disruptive because the math was too easy, so they were talking about maybe having him switch and go to fourth grade for math. So then we put him in private school, and it was a little bit better because they had the grade-level, grade-level-plus, and grade-level-plus-plus, but there were students that they were taking from the elementary school to the junior high for classes, and he was kind of on that route, and it didn’t feel safe to me. C: Mmhmm. And I did that. I was bussed from the junior high to the high school when I was there. So I rode the “short bus” that everyone thinks is just for kids with intellectual delays or physical problems but is actually for anybody who needs something out of the ordinary as far as that. So what I needed was to go to the high school even though I was in junior high. K: Yeah, and I had the experience of when I was in elementary school having them skip me a grade and put me in junior high school. And that was not a positive experience for me. C: Yeah, I had exactly the same experience. K: And so because neither one of us had positive experiences with that, leaving elementary to junior high, we didn’t do that to our son. C: So something a little funny, and I don’t even remember her name, so she won’t be embarrassed because she won’t know… when I entered junior high school, I was walking down the hall and I heard somebody behind me shout out “hey, sexy!” (K laughs) and like, I didn’t think anybody was talking to me, and she kept calling “hey sexy!” and she came up right behind me and whispered in my ear, “hey, sexy, what’s your name? What grade are you in?” And I said “I’m Chad.” and she told me her name, and she said “How old are you?” I said “I’m nine.” And she was like, “Oh My God. I’m fifteen!” Just, no. K: Yeah, poor thing. So how all of this kind of played into what we do now is it gave us lots of free time to figure ourselves out because when you don’t have a kid in traditional school, I feel like there’s so much… I feel like we had so much more free time. Because we weren’t stuck a school schedule. We could make our own schedule. Because he went to college online. C: Yes. K: Which allowed for us to also go to college online. C: Well, I think that the school schedule wasn’t such a problem because when he was in school, we could drop him off as early as 7 and pick him up as late as 7, so 12 hours in a day is quite a bit of time. K: I thought it was 5:30. C: No, it was actually 7. We didn’t pay for the extra until 7. K: Oh, okay. C: We picked him up earlier than that because we weren’t trying to have him live his full life at school. But the freedom of him not being in traditional school was… it was more that we were in Japan, so he didn’t depend on us to transport him to activities. K: Mmm. Yeah. Because it was, I feel, a lot safer for kids, because when you see a five-year-old riding the subway, I kind of feel like a twelve-year-old can do it. C: Yeah. K: You see five-year-olds by themselves on the subway just doing their thing, so I feel like, yeah, he can absolutely. So, for me, this kind of thinking outside of the box that we do, because I feel like we don’t look at life traditionally, and that our life isn’t really traditional, has led to non-traditional ways of earning money. And the only reason I feel like what I’m doing is non-traditional is because my Japanese is crazy busted. C: Uh-huh. K: Even though we’ve been here for 12 years, and even though I did almost 6 months of intensive language training. It just… I just don’t have the level of Japanese I would want to do therapy in Japanese. C: Right. K: So, telling somebody, “Hey, I’m going to move to Japan and do therapy in English!” That’s like “What? What are you thinking?” and for me, it was just like, hey, let’s try it and see if it works. That willingness to just try it and not be afraid of if I try something and it doesn’t work out. And so the first couple years of Adjustment Guidance it was a very very different practice than the practice it is now. Now, it’s a very well-rounded practice, very set and very smooth… the operation of it is very smooth. But when I first started, I never imagined I’d be working with clients in Laos, Vietnam, and Thailand. If you had told me that, I would have been like, “Whatchoo say?” Like, “What?” And that I would be working with those people in Japanese, I would have been like “What the what?” (C laughs) So, for me, I do Skype sessions all over Asia for clients and my office manager does do interpretation, and that was born out of having couples come to me where one partner was a Japanese national and the other was a foreign national. And so they… the language that they communicated in was Japanese. And so, they were okay with doing interpretation because they just wanted help. They just wanted anyone who could help them. And I was like “Right on,” and I don’t charge extra for the interpretation because I feel like I’m in Japan, I should be able to provide services in Japanese. C: Well, I think that that’s kind of an ethos, too, because I say on our website if I’m editing something for you and there’s tons and tons of mistakes, I might ask for more money, but if you tell me you’ve got dyslexia, I’m not going to. K: Right. And so. But they have to really have dyslexia. The mistakes have to track… C: Yes, yes. I’m not saying this a coupon code. I’m saying that I don’t believe in charging more because of circumstances beyond their control. And I think you’re saying the same thing. K: Yes. And so a big part of my business is based on my ability to communicate in Japanese with an interpreter. So the fact that I have an interpreter really impacts the way my business runs, and really impacts… because I have a therapeutic interpreter, which is different than just regular interpretation. And my interpreter is my son, and so he’s been working for the company now, gosh… I want to say a good seven or eight years now? C: Mmhmm. K: So, he did a lot of push-in and shadowing with kids because, with kids there is a portion of the session where I have to talk with mom and dad. There needs to be somebody to watch the kids. C: Right. K: And so they parents asked if it was okay if he you know, sat in on the session, and then there were the… dealing with couples that were millennials and he just got lots and lots of training through sitting in on different sessions. And that allowed him to learn the vocabulary of therapy. Which is why he’s a therapeutic interpreter, because how you translate… English doesn’t translate directly to Japanese. So you have to know all these emotive words. And you have to understand me and what I’m saying and my rhythm and the way that I speak as a therapist. Because the way that I speak as a therapist is completely different than how we’re talking right now. So there’s crossover, but there’s some key phrases I like to use, like “your toolchest” and “unpack” and… and all of those kinds of things that are very idiosyncratic to me. C: I think one thing about your office that makes that kind of possible is that it’s in a residential apartment. K: Yeah. C: And that’s really really common in Japan is that if you have a small business you rent out residential apartment space. K: Well, there are several businesses in the neighborhood that are boutique businesses. C: So, and that’s because the price for commercial place triple what it is for a residential place. K: Yeah. C: But the mixed-zoning means that it’s not a problem to run from your apartment unless you have an agreement that says otherwise. K: Yeah, and my office is like ten minutes, a ten-minute bike ride from our house. C: Right. You know, one of our neighbors is a piano teacher, so it’s very common if you have a kind of person-to-person business to run it from an apartment. K: Well and I have two different units in the building. So one unit is my waiting room and then one unit is my office. And I have a teaching room and a therapy room. So I do a lot of speech therapy, which I absolutely love. I love doing speech therapy. C: Well that’s where you got your start. K: Yeah. And so I, it just makes my heart sing. I love love love teaching reading, and so I do speech therapy with… across the age spectrum, with all ages. And I teach reading with all ages. I just love doing it. I really enjoy doing therapy as well, but there’s something special about speech therapy for me. C: Mmhmm. K: It just. It’s so… because it’s so clear to me that I’m empowering somebody. Giving them the ability to speak, I think is such a powerful thing. And it’s undeniable that you’ve been successful. And with traditional talk therapy, I find that I’m really good at signposting and helping people catch their moments. C: Right. K: Umm, but, other therapists I’ve talked with really kind of struggled with that. Like, letting their clients know what is their… the value added of the therapeutic process. C: Well, I think therapy is one of those businesses where it’s tricky because you have an ethical responsibility to help the person as much as possible, but if you make them all better, then they stop being your client. And I know… K: And that’s my goal. To put myself out of business. C: I know that’s your goal. But I know that that’s not every therapists’ goal. K: Yeah. There’s one in Japan who’s… ugh. A little shady. That really, really works hard. I’m not going to mention any names. I’m not going to put anybody on blast. But there is one that works really, really hard to create umm… medication dependence and emotional dependence on their services. Just a really, I feel, a really toxic dynamic for a therapist in with that thinking. You have to prepared for every session to be your client’s last. For positive and negative reasons. Because they have autonomy, and the power to choose to never come back again. C: Right. K: And they should feel that power every time. Like, they should know that you’re not going to hate them or close the door or burn any bridges if a client’s like “Nope, I’m good”. C: I know some days you come home and you’re like “I had a good day and my clients were really validating.” But I know that I also have people who tell me, you know, “your wife was really, really helpful to my friend. So please tell her thank you. I can’t tell you my friend’s name or what she did, just that, you know…. they were really thankful.” K: And I know that people who you work with for editing will tell me the same. That you were really helpful. That you’re amazing. That you’re so kind and generous and patient. You’re like really patient. And you don’t make anybody feel stupid, which I think is C: That’s never my goal when I’m editing. And I do tutoring as well. I’m a little expensive for most people for tutoring because I do charge what I can get. And unless I give it to you for free, which is rare. Right now I’m all full up on that. So I know that people find that helpful. Because what I try to do is let people’s own voice come out. Not rewrite for them. K: Yeah. C: One thing I think about our money is that, right now, what I’m doing feels really risky. Trying to make money writing fiction. K: Mmhmm. C: But what you’re doing really right now is really solid because of your business. K: Sometimes it feels precarious, man. C: I know, but we go over the averages and you’re solid. K: Yeah, I know, I already have two days that are booked through the end of 2020. But it’s still just like… man. Everything’s not booked solid and locked in for the next five years. C: But, when you started your K: Nothing’s guaranteed C: But when you started your business it was the other way around. It was really uncertain where that was going to go, but I had rock solid income. And you and I have kind of switched back and forth on that to where one of us will have steady money while the other one takes risks. So, in that sense, our partnership is integral to us doing what we do. K: Yes. C: I could not be where I am if I didn’t have you and K: Oh, thank you. C: And I think it’s fair to say you could not be where you are if you didn’t have me. K: Absolutely. Absolutely. I tell everybody that my marriage provides me the foundation to be who I am and do what I do. Because something that I think is really cool for me is that I am able to tell all of my clients that I absolutely have more good days than bad days. I’m absolutely in a good place. And I’m absolutely happily married. And my life isn’t perfect. I don’t think anybody’s is, but for me, I would hope that your therapist was having more good days than bad. And I have a therapist. So, those are kind of things that I share with my clients to let them know, yeah, I’m happy. And I believe that everybody can get to that place of whatever their “happy” looks like. Because I think happy is very individual. C: I think that’s really important. Because with your illnesses, I know that it could be easy to use that as a reason to say well, “this is why I’m not happy”. K: Yeah. Because having porphyria and lupus ain’t fun. C: And so I think being happy but in pain is kind of an interesting experience. K: It is. It is. And so I do work with a lot of individuals that have chronic illness. I really love how diverse my practice is. Because I’m thinking like, right now, I can honestly not think of any two clients that are seeing me for the same thing. And I think that is so cool. Because every day is different, and I love that variety, which is why I don’t specialize. Because I love the variety, and like, my whole master’s thing was like why the world needs more generalists, especially in the field of psychology. And you have a whole capitalist thing about specialization. C: Well, I think that it’s just born of the need to specialize to find a niche. K: Yeah. I find that if there’s a glut that you need to specialize to differentiate yourself. But right now, I think I’m one of three in Aichi, which is sort of like the county. C: Yeah, so. I have a certificate in business, and I can talk about being a low-cost leader vs. the diversification leader and your diversification leader is not the cheapest. You’re not expensive relative to K: No. Everybody charges… my rates are the going rate. C: Your rates are the going rate. Right. So I think that, you know, being able to see so many different people must be really nice for you. K: It is. C: And I know that I could teach editing as a separate… not everybody wants the same style or the same voice. So I think both of us in the way that we work try to personalize to our clients. K: Yeah. Something we didn’t mention is your talks. C: Oh, yes. K: You give a mean talk. You give a mean talk. Everybody loves your talks. Because after you give a talk, people are clamoring for your notes from the talk. Because the talk is so amazing. And I’ve been to several of your talks over the years, and I’m always astounded because some of the talks I’ve been to more than once, and they’re completely different. Even if they’re on the same topic. And so I love your ability to give a good talk. C: Thank you. Yeah, and I guess those do play a role in the money, because usually if I give a talk it’s either free or it starts at $1,000, depending on what you want me to talk about. So, yeah, I mean… those are kind of…. bursts…. of money. It’s less predictable. K: So what I think is really cool, something that I’ve always loved about you is that there’s a pervasive humility in everything that you do. And I think that that pervasive humility leads to an elegance and a quiet confidence. With… because it’s a complete absence of arrogance. And I love expertise without arrogance. I think there’s just something stunning about that. C: Thank you. One of the things I got called most as a kid was “arrogant”… K: But incorrectly. C: Incorrectly, I know now, but at the time that really stuck with me, so I really worked hard to understand why people were feeling that. And I came to understand that when somebody calls… K: Because you were smarter than them. (laughs) Ooh, that was a mean girl moment! (laughs) Don’t you dare say nothing bad about my husband! I will mean girl you in a heartbeat. C: Well, I came to understand that when people said it they were saying it from insecurity. K: Yeah. C: And so I try to reassure people that, you know, I’m not there to judge them. I’m there to help them. And apparently I do a pretty good job of that. K: And I think you’re really to ask questions to. C: I hope so. I encourage questions. So I always build question time into my talks. And so if I’m giving a PowerPoint talk, my typical thing is to have enough slides to leave maybe 30 minutes for questions, but then to have an extra set of slides beyond the “Thank you” slide in case nobody asks questions. So that I can say “Well, if nobody has any questions, let’s cover this extra topic.” K: Yeah, to make sure you fill your time. Because you’re really good at showing up on time and running on time, which.. giving a talk, that is an art form in and of itself. I talk every now and then. It’s not my favorite, but I will do it. And I usually don’t… I usually do it for… as some sort of volunteer purpose. I used to trainings at schools, but I’m super expensive for the schools. Because it tanks my entire day, and I’d rather be doing C: It tanks several days, because you have to prep it, too. K: So I’d rather be doing in-person therapy. It’s my jam. I can do talks. Maybe I’ll do more talks in the future. But not looking that way. C: Mmhmm. K: But I also run on time. And so I know how difficult that is to stay on time and keep pace because sometimes you can get a question that the person is just a talker. C: Well when I was in grad school, we had to give a lot of talks. That was required. Everybody had to talk. You had to talk at least once a year to your committee in a formal setting about what you’d done, and they said the number one rule is “Don’t run over.” They say “If you notice the time is done and you’re in the middle of a sentence, don’t even finish the sentence.” (K laughs) Just say “Thank you. Sorry I couldn’t finish. Please contact me after if you have more questions. Thank you for your time.” K: Yeah. So something I think that’s cool about our Twitter is that you do answer grammar and editing questions on our Twitter. I do not do e-therapy. So C: I think they’re completely different things. Because when I give somebody a grammar answer, I can give them a complete answer for their context. But often in therapy and I know this from watching therapy TV shows (K laughs) K: Which I love way too much! C: Which you say are… like the ones that you say “wow, this is really what it’s like.” I think the latest one was a few years ago called “In Session”. K: Yeah. By HBO. C: Yeah. But you said “wow, this really captures it.” So, I think that when you talk about something it can dig up, like, deeper issues. K: Yeah. C: So that could lead to further issues. And I know that this happens when I’m teaching math. So if I’m teaching math, I often discover, okay, you’ve never really understood fractions. You worked hard enough to get all the way through calculus and into differential equations, but you haven’t actually ever understood fractions. So, you know, math, I’ll talk about it briefly because I love it, but a lot of people who think that they are good at math because they can remember hundreds of unrelated things, they are good at math, but they’re going to hit a wall. Because everybody will eventually. And that wall is going to come from not understanding fundamental that happened early on. K: Yeah. C: And so they started memorizing all these different math things as though they’re all disconnected. And if they go back and understand it, then they’re like “Oh, so this all fits into place!” Because I’ve had students “How do you remember all of this stuff?” and I say “Well, I can work anything need to out from the framework if I don’t remember it. And here’s my framework.” K: So do you give… ‘cause I just have to own that I don’t always read our Twitter feed. You are a much more prolific Tweeter than I am. C: I have a lot more free time. K: Do you do a lot of math stuff on Twitter? C: I do not do a lot of math stuff. K: Okay. Because I know that there has been a couple of people that you accidentally got into an e-therapy situation because they misunderstood you as me. And then I go into our DMs and try to wrap it up quickly and supportively. And I think that that’s where “the first session is free” really comes in handy. And so that’s why I’m just putting it out there: I do not do e-therapy. C: No, you don’t do it at all. K: E-therapy is its own form of therapy. It’s an emergent type of therapy. And while I am capable of doing e-therapy, I find that that takes away from my in-person practice. And that’s the majority of my practice right now is in-person. So there are apps out there where you can just send a text any time you’re feeling anxious to a therapist and they’ll respond. Or there’s people that you can exchange… that they just do e-mail therapy. There is a couple Twitter therapists out there. And I’m like, “Hey, crack on. Get your coins.” I’m not mad, and it’s just, I’m not judging, I’m just saying it’s not my lane. I dabbled in those arenas and it just, for me, it’s so time-consuming. C: So these days if I see something I’ll just say something like “Sympathy.” Like, just “Sympathy.” And that’s me just saying like “I’m not in any way qualified to help you with these problems, but I am sympathetic to people having problems.” K: And every now and then I will tweet out sort like a therapy response to a tweet if, like, I’m scrolling through our feed and I see something that I feel like just a little pick-me-up would do, so… C: Like an affirmation kind of thing? K: Yeah, like, not always affirmation. I think more support than affirmation. And I find that I can have like a one-day quick exchange with somebody if I’m, you know, in the Twitter zone that day. C: Right. K: So, it’s not strictly “never ever”, but it’s not my favorite. C: And you never get paid for it. K: Yeah, I never get paid for it, and so I think that probably impacts my enthusiasm for it. And I just… I cannot compete with the rates that other therapists are giving for it. C: Right. K: I just can’t go down. I can’t drop my rates that low. And I feel it’s unfair to my in-person clients. I like the traditional talk therapy in person. C: And I think you can’t compete with the ability… so, one thing I know happens a lot is that people call your phone trying to schedule appointments. But that’s your phone, and only you answer it. K: Yeah, but you’re on the answering message. C: But I’m on the answering message. K: And I rarely answer my phone, if I’m honest. Because I don’t answer in session, and I don’t answer after hours. C: Yeah, if it rings when we’re home, you don’t answer it. Because are your days off or it’s past your… so people really have to email you. K: My preference is email, and so I don’t usually, but I do return phone calls. C: Yes. And that’s the purpose of having it, is so people can call and leave a message and you’ll return their phone call. K: Yeah. I’ve had people Skype me. Just randomly Skype me. Just wanting a session right that minute. Or people call me up “Where are you?” And I’m like “What are you talking about?” (C laughs) Because they wanted drop-in service. And in Japan, the TELL Tokyo support line is better suited for that between 9 am and 11 pm, 7 days a week. For me, I’m not a drop-in service. I am an appointment-only therapy practice. C: Because you help people by building a relationship with them. It’s not… K: Yeah. And it really goes down to what the person’s preference is. I, you know, because every therapist is a person. And my preference is I like having scheduled appointments because of the way that I prepare and before each session I like to read all of my previous session notes, and I have a whole rhythm that I do… so, yeah. I really, I love my practice. I’m really satisfied with the way it’s set up. I’m really happy with the diversity in my clientele, and my clients are just the most amazing, hard-working people on the planet. They come in, I’m so just really humble and thankful. Because they come in ready to work, man. They come in and they work their buns off. They do… they’re digging deep, they’re doing their homework. So I’m really, really fortunate in that everyone who I work with wants to be in a therapeutic relationship. And that they’re choosing me as that therapeutic partner. So, I’m really really happy that I get to make my money this way. I’m really grateful. Really really grateful. C: And I’ll be really happen when I’m making most of my money through fiction, so buy my book. You can’t yet. K: Books! C: Not available yet. But maybe by the time you hear this podcast they will be. And if so, you’ll be able to find that information on our website. K: Yeah. And our website is? C: TheMusicksInJapan.com K: So how do you make your money? Do you love it? Do you hate it? Let us know. Drop us a line. Drop us a message. And… yeah. Talk to you next time. C: Bye bye.

K: So lately I’ve been thinking about raising kids in Japan. C: We already raised one. K: (laughs) Yes, so the first time, because we had planned to come to Japan when he was 8, and I came over and I was studying Japanese and I was going to study Japanese and then be fluent in Japanese and you were going to come over after you graduated from Berkeley. C: Right. K: But then I got sick, which is a topic for a different episode. And so it took us about three years from then to get back, and so we came over when he was 12, and he had graduated high school at 12. So he wasn’t actually in any formal education at that time. C: That’s right. And soon after, we put him back in formal education. K: Yeah, he went to college online and graduated college from university when he was 16. C: Yes. K: So for me, the biggest challenge for raising him in Japan was the fact that he wasn’t bilingual and how to get him socialized and a peer group and learn Japanese… C: Yeah, that was a trick. K: And also because, since he had already graduated high school, we couldn’t just send him to an international school, which there are quite a, quite a few international schools in Nagoya. C: But the thing about them is that none of them are actually accredited by the Japanese government. K: Correct. C: They have accreditations other places, you know, they through the US, one of the regionals or through the, you know, International organizations, the IBO or whatever. But in Japan they have the same status as driving school. K: Yeah. C: So there’s been some discussion lately. In the news about whether sending your kids one of these schools, they’re actually in violation of truancy laws. K: Yeah, and a lot of Japanese universities won’t accept diplomas from them. C: Right K: Won’t count them as high school graduates. And so we can kind of get around that with testing into college and all of that. C: Yeah. K: So for us, him already being a high school graduate, which we were really happy about because we didn’t want to put him into Japanese high school because he didn’t speak Japanese, and we didn’t want to put him in an international high school because we didn’t feel there was a big enough benefit for the price tag… C: Right. K: And so having him already graduate was really nice, because in our home state of California, you’re able to take a test and graduate high school. C: Yeah. It’s a little bit more complicated than that. You have to be at least a tenth grader to take that test. But if you’re homeschooled, which you have to file a declaration form to do, then you get to decide what grade the kid is in. K: Yeah. C: So we just, when he was 11 we said yeah, he’s a 10th grader. K: Well, we also homeschool him and he did have all of that because he went…. C: Oh, yeah. K: He had to do school. So don’t say that we just like decided he was a 10th grader. C: No. No, we looked at what he would need to know for the test. So, he did well on the test, he passed it easily. K: Yes. But he also had all of the math, language, writing, and reading skills of a 10th grader C: Correct K: when he went in. And when he entered college, he had all of, at 12, he had all of the math, reading skills that he needed to take all college level classes. He didn’t take any remedial classes. C: No, he didn’t and in fact, he would get frustrated sometimes. He’d be like, okay, so I’m in my… I think it was like history class, philosophy or something, and this person just totally plagiarized. You can tell it’s just from Wikipedia. What do I do about that? Who do I tell on them to? K: Yes, he was very much the plagiarism… he did not like plagiarism at all. C: Because he’d say I worked really hard writing my discussion posts and other people are just plagiarizing. That’s just not fair. K: Yeah. He really wanted it to be fair. He had an extreme sense of social justice and wanting things to be balanced and fair when he was 12 and 13 years old. Now, he’s really a lot more laid back. It’s like, I don’t care what other people are doing, but back then he cared quite a bit quite a bit. C: But I think because he just really disliked it. Not just people cheating, he disliked like school, too. K: Yes, he did. C: He was like, I went through your test. I did your test to graduate from high school. Why should I have to do more school? K: Well, because with a bachelor’s degree you can… and this is a benefit of being from a country that’s recognized as an English-speaking country… but as soon as you have a bachelor’s degree, you can get a visa to teach English anywhere in Asia. C: Yes. K: and South America and many places in Europe. C: Well, and the other thing is that the way that you can graduate from high school early in California is not universally recognized. So, it’s California law that it’s equivalent to a high school diploma… K: But it was recognized… it would have been recognized in Japan, but then he wouldn’t have the 10 years of education that Japan likes. C: Right C: And so that’s where it kind of gets funky for Japan is that a high school diploma or 10 years of education. C: Right. K: And he didn’t have ten years at that point. So having the, him earning his bachelor’s he would be able to at 16 sponsor his own visa if he got a job, which we did not have him do. C: No, he would have had to wait till 18 just because of their rules on age. But K: so would he have to wait till 20? C: No, for some reason 18. So, 20 is the age of legal adulthood in Japan. But if you… if it’s immigration-related, then it’s 18. So it’s a weird kind of schism there. K: Yeah. C: But I mean, I grew up in Alaska where the legal age of majority is 18 but you couldn’t smoke until you’re 19, couldn’t drink until you’re 21, but you could join the military at 16. So it’s… you know, different legal ages for different things. K: So something I found… the three things that I found most challenging about raising a child in Japan, for me. One was socialization. The other was language acquisition, second language acquisition. And the third was shifting timelines and expectations. So I want to start with shifting timelines and expectations because that’s kind of the most relevant for right now, what we just recently did, so if we had stayed in the United States, I had always planned to enroll him in driver’s ed, teach him how to drive myself for the gap between driver’s ed and teaching how to drive, and driver’s ed would be offered through whatever high school he went to, and then I would give him my car. C: Right. K: So it was all relatively inexpensive, I would buy myself a new car… just really straightforward… knew how to do everything. It all made sense. This would happen when he was 16, and I felt really good about that plan. It’s very close to my own story because at 16, I learned how to drive and I got my car and all of that. So, I got my driver’s license on my 16th birthday, and I really wanted to have that same experience for him, but there’s no… it doesn’t culturally translate, and because Japan drives on the left-hand side of the road, I do not feel qualified to teach him to drive. And, I let my Ameri… my California driver’s license expire before getting my international driver’s license. So now I do not have a driver’s license in Japan because I believe, for me personally and this is my personal belief, which has changed… I felt five years ago that you shouldn’t drive unless you’re fluent in the language of the country you’re driving in, because when you get in accidents with other drivers, you need to be able to exchange information, you need to be able to talk with them. And when the police come, you need to be able to advocate and convince them that it wasn’t your fault. C: So, if you’re listening hoping to move to Japan and get a driver’s license, Google how to do it. Don’t take our advice. But basically you have to get an international driver’s license before you come and then you have to convert it within one year to a Japanese… K: Unless you’re from Maryland. So this is something true. I did look it up. I don’t I don’t know if it’ll still be true whenever they come but look it up. ( C: But the transcript is going to say skeptical look (skeptical look) K: So Japan views every state license in the United States differently. C: Well they all have different requirements. K: Yeah. So if you get a Maryland license, you can transfer that directly to a Japanese license. You don’t have to do international. C: Interesting. Because the international driver’s license is just an application form. So I’ve never quite understood why it’s given any weight, but you know, whatever. K: And so for me if… I also feel it… because I when I ride in cars, I still flinch even after being here for over 10 years. I still flinch on right-hand and left-hand turns. It still feels wrong to me, pulling out of my instincts and my muscle memory is very much to driving on the right-hand side of the road. C: You know, I’m always headed for the driver’s side whenever I ride with somebody because I’m like headed in my mind for the passenger side. And then I see the steering while and I’m like, like right, yep, nope, gotta sit on the other side. K: Yes. So for me, I’m better at now knowing how to get in on the passenger side. And that’s because our son has a car and he’s always driving me around places. Like I ride in cars a lot more frequently than I did in the past. Whoo, so I’m having a hot flash if you hear me fanning, I apologize, but whoo doggy. This menopause is like… menopause is real… (laughs) C: It is. K: The hot flashes are real man. They’re whoo, they’re something else, something else. C: Nany years later. K: Yes, because I did have the, what’s it called, surgical C: surgical menopause K: surgical menopause. I had a hysterectomy which makes me suspicious like, you know, I’ve always wondered like what exactly did they take out? What exactly did they leave in? But that’s a completely different episode. Back to raising a child and shifting timelines. So, for me everything shifted. Like prom. So, for me prom would be like a serious girlfriend and prom happens your junior year of high school. So that’s age 16. You get your serious girlfriend, you get a car, you probably become sexually active… not promoting that, not saying 16 is the age that you should, just saying that car culture in the United States… a lot of teenagers have sex in cars. And so if you give your teenager a car, I feel like… I don’t know for me emotionally you need to be prepared for the fact that they might be having sex. C: Yeah, if you don’t like that give them a convertible. K: No, even with a convertible you can still do it. You can still do it if you’re limber and nimble and all of that because they… C: Give them a motorcycle. Because that’s what teenagers need. K:So I’m not saying that I was wanting our son to have sex at 16. I’m glad he didn’t he didn’t have sex at 16. I think in large part because he didn’t have a car. C: Probably. Yeah. K: What do you think about that? C: He didn’t have a car. He didn’t have his own place. He wasn’t old enough to rent a hotel room. K: Yeah, C: so like, he had no way to kind of get away with it. And Japanese apartments are small enough that we would have noticed somebody else coming in. K: Yeah, and there was no way to like climb up a trellis or anything because we live on one of the top floors of our building. So yeah. So what do you feel about the shift? Because I feel like us living in Japan, and this was one of the things that appealed to me for living in Japan. I felt like he would kiss later, have sex later, get a car later. I feel like everything just happened later in life. C: Well, and that’s one of the things we were looking at when we moved is the climate in the US school systems. I mean, he went to a good school, but there was still violence in schools. And when we looked at Japan, it wasn’t like Japan was better, you know the time… K: But for the drugs, Japan was a lot better because even the private school that he was at there was an Adderall issue. Yeah people abusing Adderall. And in the public school system, we lived in a really nice neighborhood, really great public school, but there was still… we couldn’t find a school that didn’t have a drug problem at the time that we were looking and thinking about him going to high school. C: Well, and I know that when I went to high school back like in the late 80s early 90s, the high school I went to took like all the kids from the military base plus kids who lived in town, and had like problems with marijuana. And then the other high school took all the rich kids and had problems with cocaine. So like, whichever high school you went to, there was drugs readily available. K: So I went to like three or four high schools and every single high school that I went to massive massive drugs. Interestingly enough though, the one high school that I went to that was like straight-up ghetto, just like hood to me, the only thing that you could get on campus there was marijuana, and the most ritzy high school I went to, you could get everything. You could get acid, mushrooms, like a whole cornucopia of illegal drugs. C: So, I went to Lathrop High School which used to be called Fairbanks Main High School. And so I think that had a population of students that was relatively representative of the general US population. It was like, I think like between 15 and 20% of kids were Black, like 10 and 20% were Asian and it was like probably half the kids were white, and it was just marijuana. That was it. But the other high school was like 97% white and 3% Asian. There were like two Black kids at that high school, and they had like serious problems with cocaine and with prescription drug abuse. K: And so the high school that I went to that was predominantly African-American, it was just weed. There wasn’t like anything harder. It was just, not on campus, not available on campus. Now I ventured off campus and got you know harder stuff, ‘cause I did a lot of drugs in my youth. Don’t do drugs. Stay in school. C: It is interesting. So I know this is a digression but we’d be off brand if we didn’t have one. The high school that I went to, they would write about it in the newspaper, and I wrote to the editor, a letter to the editor of the newspaper at the time because I was… there was one day that they had an issue. On one page it said “Lathrop students flock to nearby mall and loot as shoplifters” or something like that. It was all about how terrible it was to be near our high school because we would just like mob the mall and there were so many of us they couldn’t stop us from shoplifting. And then in the column over from that was like “West Valley Junior High School Champions”, and it was consistently like that. Like there’d be “Lathrop is just awful. The kids are awful. They’re all thieves and vandals” and “West Valley, oh, we love our rich kids.” K: Okay that kind of discrimination and propaganda. Yes. Yeah, that’s too bad. C: But the information that we got before we came here about Japanese high schools. And one of the reasons that we push to get Rasta graduated from high school was like, you know, K: they were setting C: setting kids on fire, that was K: bullying C: bully was a big one but setting kids on fire was the one I remember. K: Because they have this sempai/kouhai system where you have like upper classmen and lower classmen and the lower classmen have to do whatever the upper classmen say. And the year that we moved here, that was the year that three different kids in three different neighborhoods were set on fire by older… like legit, set on fire. So it also happens in California. There was that same year, there was a story about a kid who, a young man who wore a skirt to school and got set on fire for that. So that is just alarming. You hear that in high school people are setting people on fire. I was like, whoa, wait a minute, pump the brakes. C: Don’t set anybody on fire, ever, but if you’re going to set fires wait till you’re in university. K: (laughs) Don’t set fires! So, for school I was really worried about bullying and then because of the homogeneity in Japan… it’s predominantly Japanese, and so there aren’t a lot of foreigners and there aren’t a lot of points of contact for Blackness specifically. C: Right. K: And there is a problem in Japan with blackface and cultural appropriation and appropriating the most negative stereotypes. Like, there is a Japanese group that calls themselves “The niggaz” and they dress, interestingly enough, they appropriate Chicano fashion. So they Just like cholos and cholas, but they call themselves “The Niggaz” and they rap. So that’s… a problem. And then every New Year’s Eve there’s an issue with somebody appearing on TV in blackface. So I don’t think that Japan understands. There’s also like in Nagoya, there’s like low rider clubs, where they celebrate low riders and they dress like cholos and cholas, and they like have religious artifacts and things for religions that they don’t believe in, for customs that they don’t understand. And so the Japanese really kind of view other cultures as costumes, and don’t really dive… this isn’t everybody, but there is an issue with this in Japan, where it’s just a costume. C: Definitely. You know, I wonder if part of it is that… I think something like 30% of the Japanese export economy is cultural stuff. K: Yeah. C: So, I mean cars is a big one, but after that like anime and movies and stuff makes Japan massive amounts of money to export it. So, K: yes C: Like Japanese people, generally, don’t seem to have an issue with cultural appropriation. Like, if other people want to appropriate Japanese culture they’re like “yes, we’re selling it please buy.” K: Yeah, and they actually want it. So like yes, cool. Come over. Dress up like a samurai, cool Wear a shirt with kanji you don’t know how to read. Get kanji tattoos that you don’t know how to read. And it doesn’t seem to make Japanese nationals angry. There’s some Japanese nationals that it makes angry, but generally speaking it’s not as sensitive topic as it is in the United States. C: And you know, I wouldn’t feel upset if like somebody outside the US were like wearing a t-shirt with a hamburger on it. Like yeah, I’m American. I’ve got a hamburger. K: So for me, I have a problem with any variation of the n-word being used. I just feel like, that’s not your word. You don’t get to use that word. So please don’t use that word. And I feel like any images… any slave imagery, I have a problem with. I don’t have a problem with like makeup and hairstyles. I know for some people it is very upsetting if people who are not who don’t have African ancestry wear dreadlocks. That doesn’t bother me as much, corn rows doesn’t bother me as much. I do… it does bother me when there’s blackphishing, where they’re trying to pass as black or they know that they’re being perceived as black and they don’t correct people and say “Yo, you know, this isn’t… like this is what my culture is, although I think black is beautiful, this isn’t my ancestry” and just differentiating. And that’s only because there’s a limited amount of opportunities for African Americans and for people with African ancestry, and I want those limited opportunities to go to those people. C: I think it goes deeper than that, too, because I know I come from a writing side of it. And I know that, you know, whenever somebody writes a book about the Black experience that, short-sightedly, kind of takes up space for other books about the Black experience. And what I’ve seen happen, is that somebody, who’s usually white, will write a book about what it’s like to be Black, and then when somebody who’s actually Black comes and writes a book about it, they get told “no, that’s not what it’s like. It’s like this other book,” and I see that more on a personal level with disability stuff. K: But you wrote a book where the main character is a Black female in a wheelchair. C: Absolutely K: And you draw your understanding of what that means from my experience. C: I do so, when I say about the black experience K: …for the black portion of it, just to be clear. I’m not in a wheelchair. We have other sources for that. You personally knew a young lady who was in a wheelchair and you based a lot on her experience. And we also have a lot of connections to… C: Well, and I have writing groups. So, I had several people who are wheelchair users read it. I did some paid sensitivity reads. But when I was writing that, I wasn’t… I wasn’t saying to myself “I’m writing the Black experience.” I was writing a book with a black character and made the gazes very clear. So, I think a lot about gaze, and I think the same thing happens with the Japanese culture where they’re like looking at as “no, this is, this is me,” rather than “this is my perception of that culture.” K: Yeah, but this is like a complete digression. We need to get back to raising a kid. Okay raising a young.. C: yeah, he will never grow up if we don’t get back to it. K: So, he has an afro, which I think is beautiful and raising him in Japan versus raising him in the United States as an afro-wearer, as someone who celebrates their natural hair… I didn’t find any issues between… any differences between what I would have done in the United States versus what I would have done in Japan with the exception of in Japan I have to cut his hair. C: Yeah. K: There’s no one in Nagoya, and we recently… he went to a barber (laughs) who like, not a single part of his hair was the same length. There were so many dips and curls and some parts of it were so short that we just had to camouflage that until it grows out and we can even out the length. C: Yeah, so K: It’s still being repaired from that. C: So Rasta is completely bilingual, so he has some K: and bicultural C: and bicultural, so he asked on Facebook, you know, does anybody know a Black barber? Somebody who can cut black hair? This guy says “Oh, yeah. I’m totally totally familiar with it, and he went, and I think what the guy was totally familiar with was cutting permed hair and just kind of assumed. K: I know you keep saying that but I’m telling you no, this guy does not know how to cut curly hair at all. C: Okay K: At all. I know you think that perms create uniform lengths in the curls and it does not. If you stretch out curly hair when you’re cutting it, you’re going to not have… because each curl has different elasticity even when permed. C: okay K: even when permed C: I’ve never had a perm just yeah, you know, K: Your hair is straight as a bone. Except for your beard hair. I think your beard hair, to me though is kind of more frizzy than curly. C: It is not frizzy. It is crinkly. K: I know you think crinky, but I think frizzy, frizzy and brittle. C: It is not brittle. K: Your beard hair is dry as a bone and can the mic pick you pick up you stroking your beard hair? C: No, it can’t I’ve checked multiple times. K: Okay, because you’re just going to town today. C: Absolutely. K: (laughs) You’re just like my precious, my pretty… C: No, it’s whenever I stroke it, I become slightly more wise. K: (continues laughing) Oh, geez. So Rasta’s timelines are different. C: Yeah. K: I feel that he grew up much slower in Japan because he didn’t… he didn’t have as many social points of contact, and so we were really able to craft and shape who his peers were. C: Yeah. I think that’s a big thing. K: And for the most part from 12 to I want to say geez Louise, till about 17 or 18. C: Yeah. K: His peers were either college students who were playing Go C: right K: Or people in their 60s who were playing Go. C: Yeah K: Because that was his almost his only source of socialization was the board game Go. It’s the one with the… it’s a logic game with white and black stones that you play on a kind of board. C: Well, he did soccer, too. K: Yeah, but he didn’t do soccer for very long. C: No, I think we… that was like 9 months maybe. K: And then when he does soccer it was mostly Brazilians who spoke Portuguese. C: Right K: So they spoke Portuguese and Japanese. C: Yeah, and his Japanese was not that good at that time. So it was limited communication. K: Yeah, so we didn’t get him involved in any serious soccer teams because he wasn’t really athletically skilled. C: No. K: That wasn’t his talent. C: Most of the sports happens through the schools. K: Yeah C: Through the club system in schools, so if you don’t go to a school that can be really tough to be involved in things here in Japan as a young person. K: So then when he was about 18/19, he got into salsa dancing. C: Yep K: And then started socializing with different people and dance clubs and the salsa community. And also we talked about it on our making friends thing, but like the Nagoya Adventure Club and different Facebook groups and meetup groups. And so his socialization felt really easy and his development felt really easy because he moved out on his own at 20. He didn’t get a car until he was 25. C: And I think it was easier. I think part of the reason is that… is Japanese bars. So, in the US if you want to learn that you’d probably go to a bar and you’d probably have to be 21 to enter. K: Yeah. C: But in Japan, there’s no age limit on entering a bar because of like a centuries-old law that basically it’s not legal to serve only alcohol. So every bar is actually a restaurant. K: Yeah C: Where all ages are welcome. So with… if I go to a bar it’s not unusual to see kids there. They’re not drinking, but they’re their you know, eating food with their parents while their parents drink, or not, but K: O they’re on their own. Because we do see out on dates and such. C: Yeah. See, I think it did… it did alter his timeline, as far as raising him. And I think that some of the parts were easier. So, before we moved, we had to drive him to any activities or have one of his friends’ parents pick him up. K: Yeah C: Unless they were really close by. I think he had a couple of friends he could ride his bicycle to the… to their house, but that was like, very limited number of people. K: Yeah C: But being here in Japan, you know, as long as he knew the subway and train route, he could go pretty much anywhere. K: Yeah, and so he was able… he had a lot of, a lot of autonomy. I think he had more autonomy at a younger age. C: Yeah K: Because at around 13 he was just riding the subway all over wherever he wanted to go. He would just tell us where he wanted to go and leave, whereas in the United States at 13 because of where we lived, we would have to drive him. Yes. And so he would have autonomy at the destination but maybe not autonomy getting to and from. C: Right K: And because we were in Japan and we live so close to public transportation, there were many days that he would go hang out at the ki-in or the igo-bu… the Go Club… on Nagoya campus, Nagoya University campus, or hang out at the Go parlor. There was his favorite local partner here in Nagoya. C: yeah, there’s several but he had one favorite. He was a member so he got discounted entry and all of that. So yeah. K: Yeah, and then when he started going out to clubs, I think he had a lot more leeway at 16 and 17 because he could stay out until the last train and then C: Which is at about midnight K: Yeah because the last train’s at midnight. And so I’m not sure that midnight would have been his curfew in the United States. I don’t know if I would have felt comfortable with him driving around at midnight. C: Yeah, I don’t remember the California laws on that. Because I know California has laws about how late teenagers can be driving and whether they can have passengers and all kinds of things. K: And so then around 18/19 he… we just sort of “just text us and let us know if you’re catching the last train or not.” And so sometimes he would come in six o’clock the next day when the train started again. And I know now that he lives on his own, sometimes people just walk home after the last train C: Right K: stops, because he has friends that live in and around his neighborhood that he sometimes goes out with. But since he’s got his car he doesn’t tend to do that anymore. C: Yeah, because there’s a lot of 24-hour entertainment in Japan. K: Yeah. C: But it’s not always entertaining to do that for six hours. So, most karaoke places are open 24 hours. There’s, you know, K: Several 24-hour restaurants. C: Internet cafes that are open 24 hours and things but it’s, you know, not necessarily fun to go to karaoke for five hours. Unless you’re with somebody you’re really having a good time with. K: Yeah. And something I really like that makes it easier to be happy about him owning a car is he’s not really a drinker. C: Yeah, K: So, he has gotten drunk. And the first time he got drunk was at home with me because I wanted him to… we didn’t get hammered together, but I wanted him to see what a small amount of alcohol it takes to not fully be yourself. C: Yeah, it was like, okay drink this. Okay, now how you feeling? Okay, that’s called buzz. You’re feeling buzzed. Okay, drink this. Okay, now you’re tipsy. K: So we did three drinks. We did vodka orange juice with a half shot of vodka. And then we did a mudslide, which is a ton of alcohol. It’s vodka, Kahlua and milk, Bailey’s and cream, and milk. And the reason I wanted him to do those two mixed drink specifically is because the mudslide just tastes delicious. You don’t taste any of the alcohol. It’s sweet and creamy and good and when you’re first drinking it, you don’t feel buzzed. C: Yeah. Now that’s your personal opinion. I think it’s vile, but I dislike the taste of coffee. K: Yeah, so it’s not because of the alcohol you don’t like… the don’t like the two coffee liqueurs that are included. And then after he drank that he was like, “oh, I’m feeling good now”. It’s like okay, now get up and move around. Let it circulate. He’s like, okay, I’m buzzed. I’m like, yeah two mix drinks will most often get… he’s very small in frame and doesn’t drink often so he will most likely get a buzz. I said “now let’s put a shot of vodka on top of that so you can be drunk”. C: Yeah. K: and he was able to see, okay if I drink one drink, go dance, and then drink a second drink 30 minutes later, I’m going to be… stay even all night. If I’m drinking drinks back to back, I’m going to get drunker than I mean to. And there has been times that he’s gotten… there’s been two occasions that he’s gotten so drunk that he had the spins. But he wasn’t driving either of those times. He intended to go out and have a good time and see what it felt like to get hammered just to experiment, and he didn’t like the aftermath of it. C: Yeah, so he’s never been a fan of the “nomihoudai”. Which, nomihoudai is the “all you can drink”. Which is you a set price and for two hours they’ll bring you as much booze as you can stomach. It’s usually watered down, but you can still get really, really drunk on it, and it’s a thing here in Japan. So K: Yeah, so I wasn’t worried about drug use so much in Japan because drugs are really hard to come by in Japan and there are such strict drug laws that even if you are under the influence, it is still considered… the word just ran out of my head… possession. So having it in your system is possession in Japan. And I … we always told him, you know, if you’re with someone who’s doing drugs or your around drugs, know that if you get secondhand smoke from marijuana and then you get arrested they will do a blood test on you and that blood test will show that you had marijuana in your system and then you will get possession and you may be deported. But you’re definitely C: Your Japanese friend is going to get a slap on the wrist. You are going to have major major consequences. K: Yes, and so for him if we know of an expat that smokes, we tell them hey they’re a smoker, make sure that they’re not smoking around you. Because I’m not judging. They can choose to take that risk. I’m not taking that risk. C: And when I was at Nagoya University apparently mushrooms were popular. I saw several signs in buildings that would say do not go into the woods looking for mushrooms. If you eat mushrooms, you might hallucinate, but you will die. K: Yes, there’s a lot of poison mushrooms. C: And if you’re a foreigner, we will deport you so yeah, most of the mushrooms where poisonous. They had I think five or six deaths from people thinking they were getting hallucinogenic mushrooms getting poisonous mushrooms instead. So yeah, I mean there are drugs in Japan but it’s a lot less and it’s a lot less obvious. K: Yeah. And so with the drinking I was just really, really happy that he’s not heavy drinker because he has porphyria. He inherited hereditary coproporphyria from me and he also inherited lupus from me and both of those cause inflammation and irritation. And so if he drinks, he’s going to have issues with his pancreas, issues with his liver. So I’m really… he can metabolize it okay, but afterwards it just really leaves him feeling sick. So I’m super super happy that he’s not a heavy drinker. He’s just all around a really responsible dude. C: Yeah. Now if you’re listening and you like to drink and you don’t have a drinking problem, you know, good on you, but you know for… I know for all three of us, it’s physically bad it rate… it lowers my threshold for seizures, and for you and Rasta it causes problems with porphyria and lupus. K: Yeah, and my pancreas can’t take it. I was a hard drinker for years and years and years and C: Before your diagnoses K: Yeah before my… but even if I had diagnoses, let’s be real. Before I had Rasta and the first… so even the first, I want to say like the first five years of Rasta’s life there would be like, I dropped him off with a caregiver for the weekend and I would go party. Not every weekend, but I still enjoyed the drink. C: I know that… that when you were doing sex work, you would drink a lot, too. K: Yeah sex work, I did drink a lot and do a lot of drugs. It wasn’t because I was doing sex work. It was because the environment I was in had a lot of alcohol. And so when I was a stripper in the bar, I made money off of getting people drunk. So, you know people don’t like to drink alone, and if you have a high tolerance for alcohol, you make more money than the girls that don’t drink. C: Yeah, talking with you I learned all about dancer drinks and all kinds of things because I had never been to a strip club. K: Yeah, and I told you, “yeah, no I’m ordering diet today” and you were like “what’s diet?” It’s watered down alcohol so that I’m not drinking as much and like the more savvy people would be like “give me her drink” to see if I was drinking diet drinks or if I was drinking fully loaded, and then there was a whole list of C: I don’t know if they call that savvy but… (K laughs) K: the more experienced? C: I would say predatory, but you know. K: Okay, so yeah, but there’s No Sex in the Champagne Room. C: No K: There’s No Sex in the Champagne Room, for reals. So anyways, that’s like a huge digression. So I don’t even know if we talked about raising a kid in Japan. C: Yeah, we did. We put him in college because we didn’t want him put him in high school, because we didn’t want him some on fire. K: Yeah, lots of foreign people go to Japanese high school and are completely fine. C: Yeah. K: Don’t get picked on don’t get bullied and have a lovely experience. C: He had a lot of autonomy and he didn’t get given your car. K: Which is was hard for me. C: Those are the three things if you want to raise a kid in Japan. Don’t give them Kisstopher’s car. Give them some autonomy. K: Well and so for language, I think I do want to touch on how he learned Japanese because that is something people ask me a great deal is “How did his Japanese get to be so good?” For… he went to a Jap… a family Japanese class at Nagoya University for two years. C: Right, while I was there both Kisstopher and Rasta were able to attend a family Japanese class. K: Yes, and that was once a week. And then he went to the Go clubs and played Go with only people who could speak Japanese, so he would practice his Japanese speaking there. Then, he went from there to the YWCA in Nagoya. Their, I think he went to the 5-day week program first. C: Yeah, he did K: And he did the five-day week program for about six months. C: Yeah. So the YWCA is the Young Women’s Christian Association. It’s like the YMCA but for women, but for some reason they’re a language school here. They do other stuff but primarily a language school and they teach both Japanese and English. K: Yeah. I think they have some other private lessons for different languages. C: Yeah, I think so, but their main programs are teaching Japanese to non-japanese people and teaching English to Japanese people. K: And then after doing about six months of that, I think he went to the two days a week for about six months. So he did like probably like a year at the YWCA? C: I think he did two years overall. K: Okay, so we had different… he was doing different plans at different frequency C: and he met different people who had invited him out to events. And usually they were older people. K: Yeah, and then joining the salsa community, he spoke to a lot of people but his Japanese really took off when he started dating. C: Yeah. K: And that really solidified, I think moreso his reading because he wasn’t studying Kanji. Now he does LINE on Kanji. C: You know for reading he has always been motivated by what does it get me? So he learned to read English because Pokemon came out. K: Yep. And if he wanted to play Pokemon… I wouldn’t read him anything that it said. C: It was Pokémon and it was Tomba on the PlayStation. K: Yeah, and we would not read what it said to him. And he’s… he’s so stubborn man, when he was… because Pokemon came out when he was five, and he’s like, “I’m gonna play it anyways”, and I’m like “go ahead, I’m not reading this”. And it was through frustration not being able to do what he wanted. And it wasn’t until I started playing Pokemon and he was seeing all the stuff I could do that he couldn’t do, because he thought that he was maxing out the game with his little bit of knowledge being stuck in the first town. Not knowing how to do anything and I didn’t even realize there were other town. C: That they were telling him “go to the next town over”. Ahh, I’m skipping the boring part. K: Yeah because he would just walk in and out of all the rooms and so he ended up getting a random starter Pokemon just by fluke. And “oh, I’m in a battle. Okay. I’m just going to push buttons”. So when he saw everything I could do, then it was like, okay, if you’re serious about learning to read, then let’s read this. C: And I will say that my own Japanese reading improved greatly when I started playing Japanese video games. K: and my Japanese reading is still busted. I can read bills. C: Because you don’t play Japanese video games. K: Yeah, but I can read bills. I can read about 75% of our bills, there’s like 25% that I can’t read C: the ones that don’t come regularly. K: Yeah that are a little bit of a struggle for me. So yeah, that’s why he was motivated because then he was doing… then LINE came out, and he was receiving a lot of text messages in Japanese, and so now his Japanese reading is quite good. So how to get bilingual and biliterate C: is get involved in something social. I know a lot of people who’ve learned Japanese through watching home dramas. K: Yeah C: so they always sound right dramatic when they speak. (K laughs) Aand then there’s the guys who learn Japanese from their girlfriends. K: Yeah, and they sound effeminate C: they found effeminate when they speak K: because Japanese does have a masculine expression and feminine expression. C: There’s people who learn at University, so I sound very uptight when I speak. Yeah, so K: and my Japanese is “level busted”. So I sound very halting and hesitant when I speak. There are a few phrases that roll off the tongue for me. Because… because he will come to my office and it’s like “chotto matte kudasai”. C: Which is “please wait”. K: Yeah, so that just rolls off… and then saying, you know, “this is a business. I don’t live here. I’m with clients now, please do not come back. I am always busy. No, I do not want whatever you’re offering.” So yeah the stuff that you say often. C: I don’t want any residual income. K: That’s not who comes to our door. Jehovah Witnesses come. C: Yeah, Jehovah Witnesses come. K: Yeah and sometimes door-to-door salesmen come. Yeah, every once in a while. Yeah, because my building is not… it doesn’t have a security entrance. You can just walk up to the individual, you know. C: I accidentally let in a door-to-door salesman once and he was trying to sell us filters for our stove. He was like, “but don’t you love your wife? Don’t you want it to be easy for her clean it?” and I say, “first of all yes, I do love my wife. Second of all, I’m the one who cleans that, so goodbye for you”. K: Yeah. So, for me, I feel like raising a kid in Japan to be bilingual and biliterate just takes effort and intention. C: Yeah, I think so. K: And I think everyone should find their own way. C: I think it would have been very similar to raising him in some place like New York City where there’s ways to get around on your own. K: I don’t think so because in New York City, I doubt that you’re seeing five year olds riding the subway by themselves. C: Okay. Yes, maybe not in New York City, but maybe one of the European cities with good transportation K: And low crime. C: And low crime, yeah. K: Where it’s safe for kids. So I’m really happy of our choice to move him when he was 12. I really love the fact that he can culture switch. And I really love the fact that at 25 he’s completely biliterate, completely bilingual, and completely bicultural because that means that he’ll be able to… I’m always thinking about my grandbabies… he’ll be able to celebrate both parts of my grandbabies the Japanese part C: Your future grandbabies. K: Yeah, my future grandbabies. He doesn’t have any kids yet. So that he’ll be able to celebrate their Japanese and American heritage and their African-American heritage. All that they bring to the table, because I think in a lot of international couples that we see, the foreign partner doesn’t celebrate Japanese holidays, doesn’t celebrate Japanese traditions, and I think they’re kind of missing a really great opportunity of embracing and celebrating all that their child is. C: Yeah. So that’s us. K: Yeah, that’s us for today. Thanks for listening. Hope you tune in again next week. C: Bye bye. K: Bye.

K: So lately I’ve been thinking a lot about permanent residency and how we are permanent residents now of Japan. Yay us! C: Yes, we are. (K laughs) Can’t get rid of us anymore. K: Nope, they cannot. So, for me, the kind of … a pre-thing about permanent residency is what I’ve come to call the “visa grind” or the “visa hustle”. And I feel like we did a lot of different visa hustles. C: Yes. We had a lot of different visa statuses. K: Yes. And so we started out being on the humanities visa. C: Right, the humanities and specialist in international services, which is sometimes called the English Teacher Visa, but it’s a lot more than that. K: Yeah. And it’s the visa I would be on now if I wasn’t a permanent resident, because I’m a therapist and … but being a therapist, interestingly enough, wouldn’t be enough of a job to give me visa status. The fact that I’m a therapist for English speakers… Japan values my ability to speak English more than my ability to be a therapist. C: Right. And it’s the visa that I was on when I was doing editing, even though my job required a PhD. But before that, so most recently I was on that visa. Before that, I was on a professor visa because I was doing a postdoc. And before that I was on a student visa. K: Mmhmm. C: And before that I was on an investor visa, and before that was the humanities specialist visa. K: Yeah. And then way before that, I was over here for a minute learning Japanese on a student visa. C: Yeah, and you were on a ‘pre-student’ visa, which doesn’t exist anymore. K: Yeah. Which that… so they did away with the cultural activities visa. C: No, they still have the cultural activities. They did away with the pre-college student visa, which wasn’t actually who hadn’t gone to college, it was for education that wasn’t university. K: Yeah. C: So now the people who come over to learn Japanese are on the same type of visa as college students, but they didn’t used to be. K: Oh, okay. Interesting. C: Just like now if you come over here to be a computer programmer or something like that, you are on the specialist in humanities / international services rather than the “Engineer” visa. They combined those two. K: Oh, okay. And so something that I’m always grateful for is your hard work in helping us get to permanent residency. And the sacrifice that you made, and I’m grateful to myself for the hard work I did and the sacrifices that I made. Because it was hard. C: Yes, it was. K: It was a really hard journey. And made more difficult because we were both over 40. C: Yes. K: And, so in Japan, you know this better than I do about the 5-year under-40 thing. The point system, rather. It’s not under 40. C: Right, so in 2000… K: But it affects your points. C: In 2013, Japan introduced a new immigration system where they had a designation called “Highly Skilled Foreign Worker”, and if you could get 70 points or more under one of three different categories, then you qualify for a special kind of… upgrade to your visa. K: Yeah. C: So, the reason that … the trick about it is that when you turn 30, you have to make more money than if you were under 30. When you turn 35, you have to make more money than if you were under 35 but over 30. And when you turn 40, you have to make more than $100,000 a year to qualify. K: Ageism in all its glory. C: Right. And that’s for the scientific visa. The researcher visa. Now, if you want to qualify as a business person, you have to make even more money. K: Yeah. So it’s … it’s tough. It’s tough over 30. C: Yes. K: … to qualify for that visa. And then under 20 is challenging for a lot of foreigners, because you have to been here for 3 years. C: Yes, and under 20… 20 is when you’re considered an adult, so if you’re under 20 K: If you’re under 30. I didn’t mean under 20. I misspoke. C: If you’re on the highly skilled foreign visa, then at the end of 5 years, you’re eligible. But otherwise it’s 10 years. Unless you’ve done something “notable”. So notable is like… if you win an Olympic media, that’s notable. That’s the level of kind of thing. K: Yeah, because you had patents before we moved, and they didn’t really care. C: Well, they would have cared. So that would have been enough, if I had made enough money. So when I went down and applied for it, they said “well, you have 70 points”, even counting 0 points for the amount of money I was making as a post-doc, but what they didn’t say is that the money is an absolute requirement. So the form made it look like you’ve gotta add up to 70 points. And I had 70 points without any points for money because I have patents and publications and went to a Japanese university, you get points for that, or for demonstrating fluency in Japanese. And all kinds of other stuff. K: So what I thought was kind of wacky about that is it didn’t matter what your assets and holdings were. It was your annual income. C: Yes. K: And so that’s something that was surprising. For us, we thought, well, you know, we own our own house, we’re financially stable. Our finances were good at the time, and so we didn’t feel that income would be a thing. And… I didn’t apply for it because I’m old. And I was just like, there’s no way I’m ever going to get it. C: Yeah, so … the post-doc I had was not the standard post-doc. So kind of the post-doc most people have is the Japan Society for Promotion of Science, and that comes with a salary of about $30,000 a year. The post-doc that I had, I think I got paid about $2,000 for 6 months. K: Yeah. C: So they said that’s sufficient income, and I said “well, we have sufficient savings, and we have…” and they said “That doesn’t matter. It’s gotta be income.” K: Yep. So, the whole PhD and post-doc stuff, that’s a different episode coming down the pike where we’ll talk about yours and talk about mine that’s in progress. So when we became permanent residents, for me, the biggest change was that it no longer felt precarious. And it felt like we could now actually make money… I mean make decisions not based on money but based on lifestyle. C: Right. K: And, for me, the biggest change in that is the ability for you to become a writer full-time. C: Yeah. I think the Japanese immigration system is less onerous than the American immigration system. K: By far. C: But it still has some restrictions, such as because I was on a specialist in humanities visa to be an editor in management, I had to go down and get special permission to teach a class on how to write because that was considered to be a professorial activity because I was teaching at a university. K: Even though you were doing it for the same company you had your visa for. C: Yes, exactly. K: So, for me, it’s a huge relief, because it allowed you to quit that job. Because you also have to have consecutive employment. I think for me everything is easier because I’m at Adjustment Guidance and that’s my own gig and I’m my own boss and all of that. And I think for you it’s much more complicated in that you couldn’t have any breaks in your employment, which luckily for you, everything you did was seamless. C: Right. I think you have to have 5 years of continuous employment and 3 years of employment at the same company. K: Yeah, so that really hemmed us in, because if you were going to make any moves C: It had to be really quick after I got my first job, which wasn’t what I was looking to do. K: Right. And then too, you were really happy at the job you were at before. C: Oh, yeah, that’s why I say, it wasn’t something I was looking to do. K: But for me it did create a little bit of stress and worry when… sometimes things got hard with that job, and there were some aspects that were really challenging and some aspects that were unfair, and it felt like we weren’t on an even playing field where we could address those things. It was always precarious to address them. C: Yes. K: And that was completely on our side. It had nothing to do with the company. Just completely on our side, because we knew what we needed for permanent residency. C: Right. K: So I think it creates this disbalance. This imbalance, rather, where it’s really a top-down situation, where the company has way more power than the employee. Which can make it rife for extortion. We’re very lucky that your company wasn’t extorting you, but a lot of foreigners are getting extorted and taken advantage of. C: And I think too it really depends on the company. So a lot of people come over and teach English, which is a hard job, and it takes skill, you can … it’s an entry level job, but people do get better at it. But their companies play games, because to be covered by “shakai hoken”, which is the social insurance for people who are employed, I think the official English translation is like “Employee National Insurance” or something, you have to be working 3/4 of a full-time schedule. And so these companies claim that you’re working 29 and a half hours. So just shy of that 3/4. K: Yes. C: When I was teaching at one, for example, we had 10 minute break between lessons. And they said that we had 1 minute to finish the lesson, 1 minute to prepare for the lesson, and 8 minutes of “time off”. K: Yes. C: So, we ended up being told that even though we were there for 8 hours, we had actually only worked 7 hours, or like 6 hours and 40 minutes. Because of all these kind of micro-breaks. They said “this is your time off”. If you’re not on Shakai Hoken, then they don’t pay your pension. And if your pension isn’t paid, for I think three or five years prior to applying for permanent residency, they’ll deny you permanent residency. So a lot of foreigners when they go to apply for permanent residency, they’ll discover that they have a huge pension bill to pay before they can get it. K: Yeah. And they want your pension paid for your entire time in Japan. For permanent residency. C: Yes. K: And now they’ve made the law so you can only back pay for two or three years. C: For two years. That applies to everybody though, not just to foreigners. That actually came out of a scandal in parliament. So in the Japanese Diet, which is what parliament is called, where it turned out that most of the members of the legislature had not been paying their pensions. K: And so, getting permanent residency is really tricky. C: Yes. K: Because some people have been denied permanent residency over traffic tickets. Some people have been denied permanent residency over social situations and… so traffic tickets are the only one I really know about. And I think maybe a drunk and disorderly. C: I know of people who’ve been denied permanent residency because they were stalked. K: Mmmm. C: And so they had had involvement with the police. And it didn’t matter that that involvement was as a victim. K: Yeah, and so the permanent residency dynamic in Japan is pretty strict. Pretty tough. And I felt really, really lucky that we were able to just be quiet and under the radar. C: Yes. K: And not have, you know, too much buzz about us, but enough buzz that we’re seen as a positive thing. Because something that Japan considers in the permanent residency application is how do you intend to better Japan? C: Yes. K: … by being a permanent resident. And so having that answer ready, like, “What are you going to do? How are you contributing to the social good?” I’m really happy that we have been contributing to the social good. C: Yes. Well, and Japan has not had a great history recently with this kind of thing. So it’s not up any more, but around the time of the immigration law, in 2013, there was a website where you could report people you suspected of violating their visa. And so, one of the reasons you could give, like an official reason for reporting somebody for visa violation was “I don’t like foreigners.” K: Yeah. C: And that was just… hugely embarrassing for the government that that had slipped through, because a lot of us foreigners can actually read Japanese. K: (laughing) Yeah. C: See what you’re saying about us. So yeah, I mean it’s tricky if you get in disputes with your neighbors, that can cause problems. If you have a loud dog, for example, that barks, and your neighbors complain, that can cause your problems in applying for permanent residency because it’s run by bureaucracy, and there’s not much room for appeal. So if you get a bureaucrat who decides you don’t deserve it, then you don’t get it that application cycle and you have to try again. K: Yeah, and trying again is 6 months down the road. C: Right. K: And it takes… so, when we applied, it took us six months to get it C: Yeah that’s correct K: From application C: Yes, we submitted our application in December and got our answer in June. K: So, for me it was really great in hearing that we got it. It was really really tough after we applied because I really, really wanted you to quit. C: Mmhmm. K: Like, I was so ready for you to quit the job that you were working. C: But that would have constituted a “substantial change in circumstances” and we would have had to report that, and that would have tanked it for sure. K: And I think that it’s important to say why I wanted you to quit so bad. Because with your epilepsy specifically, having an arbitrary time that you have to get up every day is really hard because your sleep quality varies so much. And when you get overtired, your seizures increase. I felt like there was days that your seizures had increased ten-fold. C: I think so, yeah. Because… it wasn’t just a matter of getting up. I can get up at any particular time. K: Yeah. C: Staying up is a different matter. So if I need to get up at 5 am for something, to make a call to the US or whatever, or,… you know, whatever reason… that’s not a problem. I can wake up at 5 am. But to stay up for 8 or 10 hours after that isn’t necessarily possible. So, I like to take a nap in the middle of the afternoon because it reduces the number of seizures that I have by quite a lot. K: Yeah. And I think, too, sustained attention. If you’re having to do 8 hours of consecutive sustained attention, while you are capable of that, that also increases your seizures. C: Right. And I think too that it’s a matter of buildup. So it’s like building a sleep debt. You know, if there’s one week where you’re busy and don’t get as much sleep it’s not a big deal. But if it’s five years of that, it kind of builds up. K: Yeah. And it just felt like your seizure debt was so high that you were just having days where you were just having seizure after seizure after seizure. And that’s really hard to witness. And I’m sure it’s harder to live through. C: Yeah. Because I don’t have generalized seizures except at night, I might have a lot of seizures. So, I think there are weeks I’ve probably had a hundred seizures or more. K: Yeah. And there were times when I wasn’t working I would have time off and you were working, and I was just seeing that happen and it… it makes our dynamic a little bit trickier because you have to completely rely on my reporting. C: Yes. K: And so when I’m saying “Hey, babe, you’re having a bad seizure day”, you’re like “I don’t feel like I’m having a bad seizure day”, and I’m like “Dude, I’m watching you have seizures. You’re having a bad seizure day.” It created some tension in the marriage a little bit. Especially the last six months, because I was so hypersensitive to how sick the job was making you. C: And I think too I was doing a lot of managerial work, and managerial work isn’t especially stressful. I like people, and I like helping them do their job well. But it’s not easy to count. So if I was editing, I could count how many pages I had done in a day and say “Okay, my average is only 4 pages an hour, that is half of what I can usually do, so obviously half of my time is just disappearing.” But with managerial work it’s hard to say whether any time has disappeared or not. K: Yeah. I’m just really, really happy you’re not in that dynamic anymore. C: I’m happy about that, too. K: And I’m so happy that you’re able to take that time and dedicate towards the things that we want to do. Because we wanted to do this podcast probably for a year before we launched it. C: I think so. I think more than that. K: Yeah, and so we had a couple false starts where we tried to record some episodes, but then we weren’t able to get a consistent recording schedule down. C: Right. Because I think when we started recording, the equipment we had was like… it was like wax records, and it would make, you know… 33 rpm LPs. Right. K: Mmhmm (doubtfully). C: You’d need a record player to play our podcast. K: Yeah. C: You just give me blank face like it’s not funny. K: You know. I’ll smile at you. And… C: People can’t see you smile. They can hear you laugh. K: (laughs) I’m sorry to leave you out there on your own, but it just wasn’t working, babe, sorry. C: You hung me out to dry. K: I didn’t hang you out to dry, I’m just hanging with our listeners. I don’t want to falsely overreport how funny you are. C: Oh, okay. K: Because they can hear you, too. They’re hearing you, too. So I’m sorry that you had a moment where a joke felt like womp womp. Should I have done that instead? I didn’t know where you were going with it. Were you making a joke? You were saying some random confusing stuff. What are you on about? C: I was saying that I was literally recording on records. K: Yeah, I saw that. You’re saying like it was so long ago… C: It was so long ago that cassette tapes hadn’t even been invented. That’s what I was saying. K: (laughing) It wasn’t that long ago. C: No, it wasn’t. K: And I think, for me, a gift in that is that we were able to find our style and really able to plan it because we weren’t just, like, rushing…. I felt like rushing something to market, in a way. Because we hadn’t had time to sit down and brainstorm and sit down and talk about what we want our podcast to be about, the “so what?” and “who cares?” and all that kind of stuff. And now you’re able to do it and you’re able to transcribe it. Because as somebody with hearing loss, I’m like “You’ve got to transcribe it.” C: Yeah, that was never an issue. We always planned on that. So I think, for me, too, there was the issue of dual loyalty. So when I was full-time employed, I did feel loyalty to my employer, like I should be doing things that promote that business. K: Yeah. But you also gave them a lot of ownership of creative endeavors. C: Right, because I started working in the California / Silicon Valley culture where they literally claim all of your creative endeavors, the California Inventions Act. Inventions Code? I forget which one it is. So, yeah, I didn’t heave healthy boundaries about “No, this is actually my creative activity and belongs to me. And this is what I’m doing creatively for the company, because the management aspect included creative aspects. K: That was really hard for me, because we have a newsletter, we have content on our website… all of that content creation that I do and we do, you were like “Well, I’m unsure whose content this is,” and I’m like “It’s our content, 100%”, and you were “No, I get that your stuff is your content, but I don’t know if I can give… say, if I want to write a piece on editing or a piece on creativity, am I stealing content from the company?” And I was “No! This is your original thought.” C: Well, I was writing a newsletter for the company also, which is why it was a little bit of conflict. K: So to be clear, everything we do, I’m saying right now, mark it down on the calendar, is all of our creative content. We’re not taking it from anyone. C: Correct. K: So for me it was really challenging because you did the company’s website… because that experience was horrific… I don’t think I’m telling tales out of school when I say it was horrific, it was not a good collaboration at all for any of the people involved, and it really depleted you and drained you. It made you afraid of doing our website. C: Yes. K: Like even starting the process. C: Yes. K: And you had gotten shellshocked that even the thought of doing a PowerPoint would stress you out. C: Right. K: And I think that’s because of the way the company went about collaborations. It was very much “Ooh, we see everything you can do, so everything has to be perfect, but perfect is going to be a moving target and ambiguous.” C: I think a lot of creative people who work for other people can experience that, too. K: Yeah, absolutely. C: Because I think both of us are skilled. I don’t think it’s immodest to say that, at what we do. And so we know we can do a good job. K: Mmhmm. C: Being able to say this is good enough is a freedom. K: Yeah. C: And so, when you’re separated from the ability to say this is good enough, it can be really hard to not just push yourself. And because I came from academia right before that, in academia they’ll never tell you that it’s good enough, it’s just “push yourself until you drop” at most institutions. K: So I’m really happy that you’re out of that environment, because, you know, you do our Twitter, we made a conscious decision not to do Instagram. I do our Facebook primarily, and I… it feels like it’s more of an even keel. I also tweet. I don’t tweet as much. I want to tweet more, but I’m super busy. C: Yeah. K: I usually tweet if something is frustrating me, and I usually tweet if I come across any sort of transphobia in my day. C: Mmhmm. K: Because I’m cisgendered, but transphobia just makes me so angry. I really can’t tolerate it. So if I come across it, or if I’m watching something that there’s transphobia in, I’ll… you know, tweet out something. C: Well when we met you had a lot of friends who I think now would be considered trans. K: Yes. C: I think like the officiant at our wedding was a guy named Eric. K: He was not trans. C: Okay. K: Not at all. C: Not at all? Okay. K: And you shouldn’t say people’s names. C: But he’s dead. K: You still shouldn’t say people’s names. C: Okay. I won’t say anybody else’s name. K: Thank you. Don’t tell other people’s stories. Only tell ours. C: That’s a good point. K: So, really dear, beloved friend, but none of those people you met were trans. They were just extremely effeminate. There’s a difference. C: I understand there’s also a difference. But I also understand there’s been a large shift in the twenty years, and… K: But he wasn’t even genderqueer. And his pronouns were he and him. C: Okay. K: So I think that I have a better understanding of trans culture. C: I think you do K: It’s not perfect. C: I think you do, definitely. K: But, the point is for me, why I don’t get upset with you is because you’ll take a note. C: Yeah. K: And you’ll be like “okay, their pronouns were he and him”. C: I made an assumption because he was introduced to me as “miss”, so. K: Okay. (starts laughing) Miss Kane! Which was not his last name. But that was because of the soap opera Erica Kane, and he was very very dramatic, so we called him Miss Kane, because “oh, you’re acting again in your soap opera, being drama” (laughs) I get it, okay. Yeah, that makes sense. But no, he was very… for me, even though he had an effeminate side, he was also still very masculine and still very male. C: Okay, yes. K: Did you experience him as being very masculine and male? C: Yes, I did. K: I knew that you did, but I just wanted our listeners to know that this isn’t a biased thing from you. This is you being autistic and being a literal thinker and thinking “Oh, okay…” C: Yeah. If he says my name is “Miss”, I’m going to take that you’re trans, whether you’re non-binary femme or whatever… that you’re not identifying as cis male. K: So we’re both cisgendered, but I’m part of the LGBTQ community. C: Yeah. K: And I find, for me, it’s really nice that you’re open to notes, and I’m open to notes, too, because I get things wrong all of the time. And I’m learning and evolving as the conversation continues. I expect to learn and evolve more, and I think you’re open to the conversation, so please don’t send us hate when we make a mistake. Please send us notes. Feel free to send us a note and say “Hey, the way you guys talked about that isn’t true to my experience,” because here’s the thing, no one person represents an entire community. That’s something I believe whole-heartedly. As somebody who’s pansexual and Black and a woman, I don’t think that I can speak for any other Black woman than myself. C: Yeah. K: Or women that I know. And I can’t speak to any other … anybody else who is pansexual, because I do think that pansexuality is different than bisexuality. I don’t think one is better than the other. I think that they are different, and I think there was a time in my life when I considered myself bisexual. There was a time in my life when I considered myself to be just a lesbian. There was a time in my life when I thought I was straight. And now the reason that I classify as pansexual is because, for me, I’m not attracted to gender, I’m attracted to people. C: Right. K: And that’s not better than anyone who’s attracted to gender, because I do have specific things like, for me, if you’re a man, for me to be attracted to you, you have to be able to grow facial hair. And I don’t care if you’re a trans man or a cisgendered man, once you have that “man” as a title, I expect facial hair. That’s what I’m attracted to. So I don’t expect it. It’s what I’m attracted to. C: Right. K: And, for women I have a whole bunch of different things. Mostly around breasts. (both laugh) C: A shared interest. K: Yeah. (laughs) So I like really big boobies and round bellies. C: Like I said, a shared interest. K: Yeah (laughs). C: Yeah, so we try and do our best. So I know you’re much more aware of LGBTQ issues, and I try, and I think sometimes I’m more aware of disability issues, even though are also disabled K: I think my disabilities are so different than C: Yeah, you’re more on the chronic illness end of things, but, yeah, so I think we try and do our best. And permanent residency has kind of unlocked that, for us, the ability to just focus on becoming better us, rather than fitting better into Japanese society in a way that will be found acceptable at the time of judgment. K: Ooh, well done on that looping us back around after the digression. C: Thank you. K: Yeah, I’m there with you. I went on that ride. C: Oh, but a note on the other thing. In transcribing an earlier episode, we said something about we support our “trans brothers and sisters”, and we should have said we support our “trans siblings” because we also include non-binary in that. K: Yes. But… okay. So, you put non-binary people in the same category as trans? C: I have been reading a lot of binary-people, and they say they identify as trans because they are not cis, and so, yes, I am putting non-binary people K: So I know non-binary people who don’t identify as trans, and they’re not cis. C: Right. So, I know non-binary people who say “I’m non-binary femme, I’m a non-binary woman, I’m non-binary masc, I’m non-binary trans”. So that’s why I say “siblings”. K: Okay, so you’re trying to use the most inclusive term, you’re not trying to define anybody’s identity. C: Correct. K: So for us, our understanding of non-binary is just that. You’re saying that you’re not part of the binary system of she and he. C: Yes, exactly. K: So, getting us back to permanent residency. C: Okay. K: (laughs) So, I do want to talk a little bit about political correctness, just really quick. C: Right. K: For me, I don’t view political correctness to be a burden in any way, and that’s why I always say that I’m a work in progress and that I’m learning, so if we say something on the cast that you say “wait a minute, that doesn’t speak to my experience” or “that hurts me” or “that offends me”, please don’t send hate. Instead of sending hate, educate. Don’t be mean, you know. Because we’re not coming here with a spirit of meanness, and if we do something that hurts you, we are generally sorry we did something that hurts you. That’s not our intention. This is not that kind of important. C: I think language is important there. We’re sorry that you’re hurt. We’re not sorry “if you’re hurt”. K: Yeah, so we take responsibility and ownership. We want to do better. So go ahead and send us a note if we’re getting something not quite right to your experience, and we will absolutely take that note on board. So, for us, it’s not about political correctness. It’s about our humanity recognizing your humanity and saying we’re trying to come from a place of peace and love and happiness. We want everybody to feel groovy. We’re not trying to create pain. We’re trying to be inclusive. C: Yeah, I think “politically correct” was invented to be disparaging about people who are trying to be inclusive. K: So. C: Yeah, so, we’re not that. K: At all. So, for me, permanent residency has let me just kind of relax into being Kisstopher again, and not always having to be on my Ps and Qs. Which, I didn’t really do a good job of always being on my Ps and Qs before permanent residency, but now there’s not anxiety about it. So it’s not a matter of whether I’m on my Ps and Qs, it’s about how I feel about whether I’m on my Ps and Qs. And I feel like I can start making long-term plans for my life, and how I want to live and who I want to be. C: I think Ps and Qs is really interesting in Japan. Because on the one hand it’s really easy. Because taxes, for example, it takes about 5 minutes a year to file taxes. But if you don’t file your taxes, that’s a huge issue come permanent residency time. But on the other hand, K: And they will deport you over taxes. C: Yes. But on the other hand, getting in trouble for parking tickets seems like “What should that have to do with anything” … but obviously, being a good member of society you would never park in the wrong place. Me, personally, I would be horrified at getting a parking ticket. When I did drive, I got one parking ticket the entire time I drove, and I was horrified by that, and upset by that. K: But you had a lot of moving violations, didn’t you? Oh, no, you had a lot of accidents C: I had a lot of accidents. I had no moving violations. I had several “fix it” tickets when I was younger because I was driving a broke-down car. K: Mmhmm. Because you were poor. C: Yeah. And it wasn’t even my car. Because I was poor. (both laugh) K: So you drove someone else’s hoopdee. C: I drove someone else’s hoopdee. There was one time I got pulled over at 3 am because I had a broken tail light, and they called that person to make sure I was allowed to drive that hoopdee. Because they had a lot of hoopdees they let people drive, apparently, and so they had had many K: Was that their thing? C: That was just their thing. K: Hoopdee collectors and they just.. a hoopdee lending library? C: Yeah, exactly, when their vehicles wore out, they would lend it out to people they thought could use a vehicle. K: Mmm, that’s kind of nice. So we currently don’t own a car. And I’m on the fence about whether or not. Rasta owns a car, and that kind of feels like enough car for right now. And I absolutely love his car, because it reminds me of my car in the United States, so now I’m like “Uhh”. Now, I wouldn’t be happy unless I was buying a green car. (C laughs) So, I don’t want a black car. Which, black cars are really common in Japan. C: Yes. K: Like, I think the most common car color is black in Japan. Black, white, and silver. C: Yeah. K: And then every now and then you’ll see other colors. But mostly it’s black, white, and silver. I don’t want one of those. I want a hunter green car. I really love the green. And I love the green and the beige, which is what I wanted originally, which Rasta’s car is green and beige. The interior is I guess more camel than beige. C: I would call it Latte. K: (laughs) I think it has more yellow than Latte. C: No… K: I think it’s more camel. C: When I was 16, I had a job at a carpeting store, so I learned all these color words because we sold carpeting, we sold paint, and all.. so, I think it’s Latte. K: I’m giving you side eye. I’m looking at you sideways. Not on board with that. I’m going to say camel. C: Okay. K: So, yeah, so I’m on the fence about it. I go back and forth. I don’t know. Who knows. Who knows what I’m going to do. And that’s what I love about permanent residency. It feels more like “Who knows what I’m going to do” rather than “mmm, I better not do that.” And that feels really good. So that’s really all I have to say about permanent residency. It’s awesome. I love it, and if you’re going to live in Japan, it should be definitely something that you consider before moving or in the first couple years of living here because if you’re under 30, it would really be worth your while to go for that Highly Skilled … visa, which is like permanent residency. Which allows you to fast-track permanent residency. And, you know, think about all of that, like making sure your pension is paid, and making sure you know, you pay your health insurance, and making sure you pay your taxes, and all that good stuff. C: Well, and, as a permanent resident, we did it the hard way. Just being married to another foreigner. For all the steps to do it legally. You know, shout out and much love to anyone listening who is an immigrant, documented or not, whatever country you’re living in. K: Because life as an immigrant is hard. And if you know someone who is an immigrant, break them off some love. (laughs) They need it. Trust. Trust they need it. (both laugh) And that’s us for today. Thanks for cruising by. We hope you cruise by again. C: Talk to you next time. K: Bye. C: Bye bye.

K: So lately I’ve been thinking about social groups in Japan and our socialization. C: Okay. K: And, the first one that pops out in my mind is the American Chamber of Commerce [in] Japan, but that to me kind of feels like, I don’t know, like a low-key country club, because it’s… for me, it’s super expensive to belong to. C: Yes. K: What do you think? C: I think it is. K: Okay. Because how much are annual dues for an individual member? C: 75,000 yen. K: And so that’s like, roughly 750 US dollars. C: I think right now it’s closer to 700 dollars, but yeah. K: And so for me, that’s super expensive because it doesn’t even cover any of the things that you would do as a member, so to go to an event that the ACCJ is hosting, you also have to pay to do that. C: Yes. K: And the events usually run about 2,000 yen or more. C: They usually run 4,500 or more. K: Okay. Wow. Yowza. That’s expensive. That’ll add up. C: Yes. The 2,000 yen events are in an empty room, and the 4,000+ events have food, so… K: Oh, okay. So you don’t mean an empty room, you mean just members with no food. C: Yeah, that’s true. K: So I was the first one to join the chamber. And I was a member for about two or three years, I want to say. C: Umm, yeah, that sounds right. K: Because we went to the mixer together. C: Yes, we did. K: The first… it was the beginning of the year party. C: Right. K: The shinnenkai. And we both attended. And I met a lot of people that I thought were cool, and I saw some people that I already knew, and so I thought being a member would be fun, and I joined the Independent Business Committee C: That’s right. K: And so, I have a small business… they had a lot of great things that I valued, and I really enjoyed the other members. But, they held the meetings like right at prime-time client time for me, so, like a Thursday night at 6 o’clock is almost always booked for me. C: Yes. K: And, like, the 6 o’clock slot and the 7:30 slot are almost always booked, so I usually work until 9 pm. So anything that’s scheduled Tuesday through Saturday, you know, between 6 and 9 pm, forget about it. I’m not going to be able to attend. And then mid-afternoon, I sometimes I have time in the mid afternoon, like the Women in Business committee always wanted to meet like at Tuesday at 3:00. C: Right. K: And I’m booked. I have clients. I can’t, you know… I’m running my business. So I didn’t feel like there was anything, any meetings that were consistently at a time where I could go. Even like the big Women in Business Convention that they do every year. One year I took off work and went to the one in Tokyo, which was a lot of fun, and I went with your former boss and we had a great time. And… but the ones here in Nagoya, I could never attend those. I always had to choose. Either Tokyo’s event or Nagoya’s event. C: Right. K: And I would sponsor it, but when I sponsored it they didn’t always give me what they had agreed to when I sponsored, so I have nothing against the ACCJ, but I just didn’t feel like it was value added for me at the price tag that it was coming in at. C: I think a lot of the smaller members… so, I’m the treasurer for the regional chapter, so I’m the regional treasurer. A lot of the smaller company members struggle to see value in it. So in Tokyo, it’s a lot easier to see because most of the members are in Tokyo. If you’re in Tokyo, there’s several things a day that you can choose from. Here in Nagoya, there’s usually a few things a month to choose from. And sometimes as few as 1 event a month. So it is harder if you’re not a larger business to kind of… do things. K: Well, and I felt like, too, the committee heads never polled the members to see when meetings would be most convenient. Because I knew the heads of the two groups that I belonged to, and both of those could have done them on Mondays when I could have attended. C: Yes. K: And several other members were like “Yeah, Mondays would totally work for me”, but nobody was really interested, so I didn’t feel like the committees really cared whether I attended meetings. C: I think that happens a lot with volunteer organizations, especially if people pay to belong to the volunteer organization. So I’ve looked at other groups here in Nagoya, like Kiwanis Club, and Rotary, and Toastmasters and things. They just set it for whatever time is convenient for the person running it. Which, fair enough, but that does limit its usefulness for the people who are not running it. K: So what’s challenging for me is that all the leaders said “Yeah, Monday would work” for them, but they just didn’t want to. C: Right. K: And so for me, I was like “Right on, you can totally make that choice. I’m going to make the choice to leave the chamber.” C: Mmhmm. K: And so I don’t have any malice or anything, but I think … and I really was promoting the Chamber and several people from other groups I belong to are now Chamber members and all of that, because I do think that the Chamber is good for the people who can make time to attend. C: Yes. K: And I just don’t have that flexibility in my schedule. My schedule is really rigid, which I’m grateful for. C: So most of the people that I work for have that flexibility. They work for companies that give them time off to do it, or they have businesses where their hours are more flexible than yours are. Because they do things like editing or translation. There’s a few people in that. But that was not, you know, sitting in a seat with your client. K: Yes, so for me, at the beginning I was scheduling time off and not booking clients in those times and going, but I have to be honest. While I liked the people, I didn’t really feel connected to them in the way that inspired me to build close intimate relationships with anybody in the chamber. Like, I liked them all, but I don’t really have a close relationship with any of them. C: Yeah. K: And, I think had I developed a closer relationship, I probably would have stayed. Because you have some really close relationships in the chamber. C: Yeah. And I think that’s usual groups of foreigners here in Japan, is that if you have something more in common than just being foreign, it’s much easier to develop a cohesive group. K: Yeah. So what more do you have in common with Chamber members? C: When I joined and until very recently, I had in common that I was trying to promote a business that I was working for. And now, I have in common that I have an interest in business and a lot of knowledge about it. So… I notice now people want to pick my brain about business. And I like talking about it, so that’s always a balance, though, of “At what point am I being exploited?” (K laughs) K: Which you’re joking. That deadpan delivery people are going to think you’re seriously worried about the Chamber exploiting you, which you’re not. C: No, I have good boundaries. K: Yeah. So, for me, I feel like you’ve developed some friendships because you go to lunches and things outside of Chamber meetings. C: Yes, correct. K: So do you feel like that’s where your close friendships come from in Japan? C: I think the people that I know here in Japan, with one exception who is somebody who lives in Nagoya that I’ve known since we lived in California K: Since your undergrad C: Yes, since undergrad. What, gosh… at least 15 years now. K: Yeah. C: With that exception, I think that’s most of the people I’ve met, either directly or indirectly. So I’ve gone to other business-related events, like Greater Nagoya Association, and met people. So, not everybody I know is from that, but most people are tangential at least. K: Yeah. So, we also tried Meetups. C: Yup. K: And… I think you had a lot of fun at the meetup we went to. C: I had a lot of fun at the meetup we went to. We went to a café, and there were probably thirty people there, and it was a mix of Japanese people and foreign people and the point of that was to practice speaking English or Japanese, whichever was not your native language. K: Yes. C: I had a lot of fun. It was kind of a random group of people. And so I think if we had continued to go to that and seen the same people over and over, then we might have developed some relationships, but just having the same conversation several times out of “Where are you from? What are your hobbies?” and “What do you do for work”? doesn’t build much relationship. K: So why didn’t you go any other times? So I only went once because my Japanese level was too low for me to actually participate. For me to feel like I was participating during the Japanese session. Nobody was upset with how busted my Japanese was, it was just very unfulfilling for me and very time-consuming. It met on a Sunday, and so Sundays and Mondays are my two days off, and usually Mondays I’m doing paperwork or writing reports for clients. So Sunday kind of feels like my only day off. And now, being in a PhD program… C: And when I was working, Sunday was the only day that we both had off. K: And so for me, I just felt like, again, the value added. I didn’t feel like it was giving me a lot of value added. But I thought for you there was a lot of valued added. So why didn’t you ever go back? C: I think because I’m autistic. K: (laughs) What does that mean, though? C: I like people. I’m an extravert and I like people a lot. But there’s also an initial energy hurdle that I have to get over to get out and meet people. So if I have some reason to go out, then I’m happy to be out. But it’s a steep ramp to get out there. Like, if I have to grocery shopping, and then there’s an event, then going to the event is a lot easier. I’ll just go right after I go grocery shopping. But if I’m just going out to meet people that I don’t know, then there’s some trepidation about that. And that makes that kind of hill to get up to go out, harder. K: Yeah, because you went out to get to know the people at the ACCJ while I was still a member. C: Yes. K: And so, I went to several events with me. C: And, I have ulterior motives for going. I was helping to develop the company here in Nagoya, establish an office … K: But, the reason that you really liked it, though, is you felt like it could be a good base for you to make friends. C: Yes. K: Which, is why we still continue to pay privately for you to go. C: Yes. K: So, there’s some … So for me, in Nagoya, there is over 60 meetup groups, if you look at the app Meetups. C: Right. K: And now, the reason why I don’t go to meetups, because I completely believe in meetups. I think they’re amazing. I think it’s an amazing app. I love the concept. When it first hit Japan, that’s when we went to meetups, when they were first starting. There was only like, three groups in Nagoya. So, gosh, that was like, seven years ago. C: Yes, there was Meetups, and there was InterNations. And, I know InterNations still sends you things occasionally. K: Yeah. C: But, they don’t really have a lot going on. I think there’s a, not a schism, because it’s not any animosity, but there’s a difference between people who are here only temporarily, and people here permanently. K: Yeah, or long-term. C: Or long-term. And, not all groups can accommodate that. And, I think that the purpose for being here can kind of affect what you expect. So, because we’re permanent residents… I like meeting people. If you’re only here for two or three years in Nagoya, and you want to meet me, just send us an email or whatever. But, it’s hard to pony up the energy to develop a friendship, knowing somebody is going to leave in 18 months. K: Yeah, unless there’s an activity. Because, I know for Rasta, he’s really big into D&D, Dungeons and Dragons. C: Yeah. K: And he has a … There’s a local bar that hosts a Monday night game that he goes to. And I think two of the players in the group are probably leaving in a year or two. And for him, because they meet to game, it’s not a big deal. C: Oh, yeah. K: It’s just like, okay, we’ve got to make sure that we’re having more people come in. C: There are several local board gaming groups that meet to play board games in English. And then, there are also the kind of mixed groups, where it’s English speakers and Japanese speakers. And so, I think it depends on a purpose. If you’re meeting for an activity, I think it’s less important how long the people are here. You can enjoy the moment. K: Yeah, and for me, now what prevents me from doing meetups is that I would run into clients. C: Mm-hmm. K: And, so when meetups were just starting, it was such a small group that if I had gotten in and stayed in that group, then the way that I run my practice and my rules of therapy would be like, if I’m in a group, and I belong to the group, and you then join the group after me, you join being aware that I’m a part of that group. C: Right. K: But, if I seek to join a group, and there’s a client already a member of that group, then I don’t join. C: Right. K: And, most of the meetups in Japan have that possibility, the potentiality of a client being there. And, because I never confirm or deny anyone’s my client, I find that it’s easier to just not try and join these groups. C: Mm-hmm. K: And so for me, I like joining closed groups rather than open groups because closed groups allow me privacy with my behavior in the group, and also, allow clients to have a legit way of saying that they know me, other than as therapist. C: Right. K: And, I’ve been here for quite a while, over 10 years. So, just knowing me doesn’t say that you’re my client. I have a social life. C: No, we’re well-known among the English-speaking community of Nagoya, so … K: Yeah, and I’m well-known among the Japanese-speaking community, because I work with the Child Guidance Center, which is the Japanese child protective services. I work with several ward offices. I’ve testified in criminal court. And, I know several family lawyers. So, the Japanese-speaking community kind of knows who I am, and they refer to me. And so, I do work with Japanese nationals. And, I have Japanese nationals as friends, also. So, I feel like I have a good social and business awareness of me in both communities, both the national community and the foreign community. K: So, knowing me doesn’t say anything to anyone, other than, you’ve met me once before the time that you’re seeing me. How do you feel about your profile? I feel like I have a really high profile in Nagoya. C: I feel like my profile is high among long-term residents, but not as high among recent people who have only arrived recently. K: Okay. Yeah, I feel that way too, yeah. C: No matter, whether they’ve planned to stay a long time or not, if they’re recently here, they might not know me. K: Yeah, I agree. So, I find that a lot of people know of me through you. And that’s why I think of you as having a high profile. C: Mm-hmm. K: Because a lot of people will come and see me, and they’ll be like, “Hey, I know your husband.” C: I went to local university. I’m an officer in the Chamber of Commerce. I taught at one of the local schools. I think a lot of people know me from one of many ways. K: Yeah. C: And, I’m visually distinctive. K: Yeah, because of the beard. C: Yes, so, yes, so people who meet me generally remember meeting me. K: So, you like to say that you have a ZZ Top beard. C: I don’t like to say it. I have to say it, because I’m a truth teller. K: No, no, you’re not a truth teller. Liar. Liar! Your beard comes mid chest. C: Yes, it does. K: Mid chest. C: Yes. K: No, not bottom of chest, mid chest. C: Yep. K: Above areola level when you’re standing up. And so, ZZ … C: Yes, unless I look down. K: And, a ZZ Top beard, you’re creating the expectation in me, at least, that it goes down to your belly button. C: Yeah, but you know where my beard goes. K: But, I feel like it’s false advertising for people who are about to meet you. I do not describe you as having a ZZ Top beard. I describe you as looking like Santa Clause before he went gray. C: Oh, okay. K: Because you have, like, the rosy cheeks and the sparkle in the eye, and the big round belly. C: Yes, thank you for that. K: I have a big round belly, too. I love our bellies. C: I grew up in Alaska. K: Yeah, see, you’re from the North Pole. C: No, North Pole was 20 miles away from where I lived. K: Okay, that 20 miles makes a difference to us lower 48ers, not at all. C: There’s a city called North Pole, and the main road in the North Pole is Santa Claus Lane, and Santa Claus house is there. K: Yeah, so maybe you were incognito with those 20 miles, because you didn’t want people bugging you during the off season. C: So, and if you send a letter to Santa Claus, the post office actually delivers it there. K: Nice. C: So, when I was in high school, one of the activities I did when I was a senior in high school was, we answered letters to Santa. K: Mm-hmm, did you answer them nicely? C: Yes. K: Did you tell them why they might not get what they want? C: Yes, we were instructed not to promise them anything they had asked for. K: Mm-hmm. C: But, just to you know, compliment them on whatever they said they had achieved. And, I forget, there were guidelines to it, and they were not sent out before being checked. K: Yeah, I think that’s a good thing, an important thing. So, along with the open groups, there are some closed groups. I don’t think you belong to any closed groups. C: I have some writing groups that are closed, but they’re virtual. They’re not in person. K: Okay, for me, I don’t belong to any virtual closed groups. I used to. C: Mm-hmm. K: I used to belong to a closed hereditary coproporphyria … They weren’t hereditary coproporphyria only, they were just porphyria. C: Yeah. K: A closed porphyria group, and … C: And, I belonged to that one, too. K: Yeah, and I don’t, I’m not as active in it anymore. And so, like, I tried to find it the other day, because it was a Yahoo Group. C: Right. K: And, I couldn’t find it, so I don’t know if that group even still exists. And, the group that I think … So, I belong to several closed groups. I belong to the Foreign Women in Business, Japan. C: Mm-hmm. K: And, that’s a group for women who own businesses in Japan, and the group comprises members that live all throughout Japan, several of the islands, and all of that. C: So, it’s a well-named group. K: Yes. And, I really enjoy them. And I think you know some of the members. C: Yeah, I know quite a few of the members, because a lot of them are associated with the ACCJ as well, so … K: Yeah, and the reason I don’t have any … I have friendly relations with a lot of, most of the women in the group. The reason why I wouldn’t consider any of them close friends of mine is because we never see each other in person, and we don’t talk outside of the group. C: Mm-hmm. K: So for me, I consider a close friend somebody that, if I’ve met them in a group, that I would see them one on one, and that we’d communicate outside of the group. How are you defining close friendship? C: Oh, gosh, I don’t know. K: Because for you, it’s not frequency. Because, your closest friend here, how often do you guys see each other? Like, once every couple of months or so? C: A couple times a year. K: Yeah, so how are you defining close friend? C: I feel like close friend is more about the past history, and shared experience. And, the expectation of future experience. And then, too, character, because there are people I associate with that I think have despicable characters. And, if you’re one of the people I associate with, I’m not talking about you. I’m talking about that guy you hate. K: That’s so ominous and dark. That took a dark turn. I don’t think anyone hates you. C: No, no, I’m saying that I’m … Whoever I’m talking about, if you’re listening, I’m talking about the person you don’t like when I say that there are some people … K: Oh, okay, so you’re saying that your friends alert you to who the despicable people are. C: Exactly. K: Okay, so yeah. I don’t have … So, the people I’m friends with, that I think of as friends, we don’t talk about other people. C: Yeah, we don’t. K: We don’t talk about other people in the group. We don’t talk about other people in Japan. C: We don’t usually, either. I’m not saying that I talk with people about other people. K: Mm-hmm. C: What I’m saying is that, because of the ACCJ, I sometimes see people who I don’t consider friends. K: Mm, okay. C: Outside of the context of that group. K: Okay, and so, you think some of the ACCJ members are despicable people, is what you’re saying. C: I’m not necessarily saying that, because I also see a lot of people from the various universities. K: Okay, you’re saying that in Nagoya, some despicable people live here. C: Yes. K: Okay, all right, yeah. I could rock with that. C: Yes. K: I feel really fortunate, because I don’t feel like in any of the private groups that I belong to, that there are any despicable people. And, I feel like I belong to some really, really lovely groups. Because I belong to Blacks in Japan, Black Women in Japan, Black Creatives in Japan. C: Mm-hmm. K: Black Nerds in Japan … I’m sensing a theme here. C: I’m sensing a theme, too. Black noun in Japan. K: Yes, Black Mommies in Japan, Naturals in Japan. So, most of the groups I really love and have close relationships in are groups for Blackness. Groups for Black folks. And for me, it’s what you were saying, it’s having that something other than being foreign in common. C: Right. K: So, I have lots of friends who are not Black, but the majority of my friends are Black. C: Right. K: And, I’m not biased. I welcome everybody as a friend. And, I’m open to anyone. It’s just turned out that the long-term residents that I’ve known for years and years and years, all happen to be Black. C: Mm-hmm. K: And, we all belong to a group. And, I think it’s easier in these groups, because we have like, movie viewing parties. We have nights out at the club. There’s like, so many more events than the other groups I belong to. Because, I belong to Foreigners in Japan, Foreigners in Nagoya, Hello Nagoya. C: Right. K: And, those groups don’t tend to have as many events. C: No, they’re more information, so like, Foreigners in Nagoya is mostly people coming on, asking, “Where can I find this resource?” K: Yeah. C: And then, somebody who knows … Often, it’s me, I tend to answer questions in that group… will say, “Here’s where you can find that resource.” K: Yeah. C: “Here’s how you do this thing,” whether it’s “How do I throw away a couch?” Or, you know, “How do I tell the government that I’ve moved,” or whatever. K: Yeah, and so, I find that the groups with Black plus Noun in Japan, I find that there are just more events. There’s more Afro events, and then, there’s more viewing events. C: Mm-hmm. K: There’s like, during Hanami Season, there’s always a couple of … So, cherry blossom viewing season, there’s always a couple of hey, let’s go to the park and hang out under the blossoms. And, what I like about the groups is, even though you’re not Black, you’re welcome to do like, a cherry blossom viewing, or a viewing party, or a night out to listen to jazz. There are some things that you’re not invited to, and those tend to be the Black women events. And, that’s because it’s a safe space for Black women to just embrace our Blackness and our Femaleness. And so, it is only open to women who have Blackness in them. C: Yeah. K: And, some people are like, “Oh, that feels exclusionary.” This, that, or the other. And I’m like, “Yeah, it is.” C: In a literal sense, it is exclusionary, yes. K: It is exclusionary. But, it’s about having a safe space. And so for me, it’s just … I don’t know, there’s just this ability to just relax and not have to worry about anything, and just be. C: I mean, for me, if we were going to invite people over to our home, I’m not inviting all their friends, too. K: Yeah, it is very much like that. C: And so, you know, I don’t have any issues with not being invited to those events, because I think that I try my best to be unbiased. But, that doesn’t mean that other people, one, know that… and two, are convinced of that… and three, are comfortable with that. K: So, for me, it’s not them worrying about you that I’ve experienced. It’s that, we’re triggered to behave in certain ways. And so, growing up Black, I was … C: You mean triggered? Or socialized? K: I say triggered. C: Okay. K: Because for me, I was socialized, and now I’m triggered. C: Okay. K: So, when I didn’t listen to my socialization, I had racist things happen to me. C: Mm, yeah, yeah. K: So, when what I was socialized to when I was younger was, to be really aware that you must always represent Black Excellence when you’re in mixed groups, because you may be the only Blackness that those people come in contact with. C: Oh, yes, you are The Diversity. K: Yes, I’m the diversity, and understand that they’re going to believe that you represent the monolith that is Blackness. Even though Blackness is not a monolith. In my own family, we’re so diverse in how we express our Blackness. And so, that … When I didn’t believe that when I was younger is, I wanted to talk to people about the difficulty of being mixed. C: Right. K: And, I was the only person that wasn’t white in the discussion. And, after the discussion, none of those people talked to me again. And I was like, oh, snap, this is what they mean. Don’t ever think that you can be real. And, that created a bias in me and a trigger that, I have worked to overcome the bias, but the trigger is still there. I’m not sure, like, do they want the realness? C: Right. K: You know, can we be really real? C: I think that’s what I was saying earlier about getting over that energy hump. K: Yeah. C: I think that you have to trust people a certain amount to open up about some things. Or, just open up about it to everybody. K: Yes. C: And, you know, nobody wants to be the cause of other people being socially uncomfortable. Some people are perfectly willing to be that cause to accomplish other things. K: Yeah, and I feel like there’s enough open groups, that the Black Women in Japan aren’t really taking anything away from anyone. C: No, it’s not like if there was a white man in Japan group. Well … K: Shout out to all my fellow queens. Love you, girls, love my sisters. Sorry I wasn’t saying African American, please forgive me. You all know I say I’m Black. Working on it. C: And Black Women in Japan doesn’t just include Americans. K: Right. C: So, African American would be categorically wrong for most of the members. K: Yes. And so, I refer to myself as Black because I just do. But, I understand that I am African American, and if you know an American, please, please know that African American is the correct and polite term, unless they tell you otherwise. So, I think we always have to call people what they wish to be called. Because I don’t know how I would feel if people were … Yeah, I guess I do. I don’t mind if people call me Black. C: Yeah. K: Because that’s how I identify. And, I don’t mind if people say African American. Like, those two are both okay for me. That’s not the case for everyone. C: It’s for you. K: Yeah, and so, for me, I feel like I’m Black because I come… I have ancestors that come from Africa, “deepest, darkest Africa”. And, I love that about my heritage. I feel like it gives me a super power, and I absolutely love it and enjoy it. It makes me, it’s all the things that are most beautiful about me. And, some people might think that that’s a biased thing to say, but I’ve earned the right to enjoy my Blackness, and I think that’s so sad that I had to earn the right to enjoy it. C: Well, I think saying that it’s a biased thing assumes that there’s a default. And that, the default is Not Black. K: Yes, and so, I do think that other aspects of my heritage are beautiful too, because I feel like a beautiful person. I love my ancestry. I love my heritage. C: Yeah. K: I’m good with it, I don’t have any issues. C: I’m proud to be Norwegian, right? K: Yes. C: Like, my grandma was Norwegian, she made us fattigman cookies for Christmas. She spoke Norwegian. She spoke English too, to be clear. But, she spoke Norwegian as her native language, and had Norwegian books in the house, and read to us about the Norwegian trolls. So, I’m proud to be a Norwegian, but I’m not proud to be white, because that’s not really an identity in and of itself. K: Yeah, so anyway, we digress. Race is another… C: We always digress. K: Yes, I know. Digression is our jam. But, we’re going to do a different podcast about race in Japan, because it’s different than… C: Yeah. K: Being Black in Japan is very different than being Black in the United States. It’s like, being Norwegian in Japan is very different than being Norwegian in the United States. C: Yes. K: So, another … There’s a couple of other groups I want to give a shoutout to. Nagoya Friends is an absolutely amazing, amazing, amazing group. And, the reason why I sing its praise so much is because, when our son was 18 and wanting to transition from a Go lifestyle, because the majority of his social life between, I want to say 12 and 16, was a Go club, whether it be the Igo-bun, the Go Club at Nagoya University, or the ki-in, which is a Go club in Japan. C: Yeah, a private one. K: Yeah, private owned. I feel like for up to 12 to 16 … so, I know I said 18, but I want to redirect. Now thinking about it, it’s 16. At 16, he was able to hang out with Nagoya Friends and Nagoya Adventure Club, and nothing shady went on. C: Right. K: And, nothing bad happened to him. And so, for me, they’re very near and dear to my heart, because there was a significant age gap for him and most of the participants. But, they’re all such good people, that age doesn’t matter, because they’re not out doing nefarious things. They’re doing like, good, wholesome activities that anybody can be a part of. C: Yeah, so … K: So, they’re very inclusive. C: Yeah, they’re very inclusive, and a lot of people bring their kids to them. So, I don’t think the opposite of that is necessarily nefarious. Because, I know there are several groups where the focus is really, going out and drinking. K: Yeah, and his mainstay group, his main group of friends from gosh, I want to say 16 to 19, he met through meetups. C: Right. K: And, they were having a serious talk meetup where they would go, they would watch a film, and then talk about the political and social implications of it. C: Mm-hmm. K: He’s a very serious minded kid. I think graduating college at 16, he still had that, wanting that collegial conversation and deep thinking going on. C: Right. K: So, that’s why I love meetups so much, and that’s why I love Nagoya Friends so much and Nagoya Adventure Club, because while I didn’t go to those things with him, he was so safe in those environments. And I think having safe environments is cool. He still does some of the events. But not so much, because now he’s busy with his D&D and dating. C: Yeah, D&D and D. K: So, what are … So, what’s your thoughts about Nagoya Adventure Club and Nagoya Friends? Shoutout guys, we love you. C: I think it’s great that people invest the time and energy to kind of organize these things for themselves and for other people. K: Yeah. C: So, I haven’t gone to any of the events just because I have mobility problems, and then I’ve always had time management problems where it’s difficult to find the time. K: I think with the ACCJ, you’re busy. I think the ACCJ fills up your dance card. C: It’s part of my time management problems, yes. K: All the lunches and everything. C: Yeah, and when I was in university, that was really busy. K: Yeah. C: So, you know, I did a number of things through that, but that was mostly with Japanese students. K: Mm-hmm. C: Because most of the students were Japanese, so … K: Yeah, and we hung out with professors of yours and those kinds of things. C: Yeah, yeah. K: So, I feel like my social life has been as rich and as diverse in Japan as it was in the United States. I think the major difference between my social life right before we left the United States, versus my social life now is that, my social life were all parents of kids that went to the same school as Rasta. C: Yeah. K: I didn’t have any … because when we got married, all of our friends were single, and they didn’t really … like, my female friends, especially, didn’t really transition to me being married well. C: Mm-hmm. K: All of them were still coming into our family home without a bra on, and that was really challenging for me. Or, wearing miniskirts, or wanting me to go out drinking. And, I was just at a very different place. C: Yeah. K: And, you know, because I still partied a lot and went clubbing a lot until Rasta was probably in the first or second grade. And then, I just kind of got so involved. Because school felt like it really ramped up, and so, I had to be more present in the day. And, more aware of never being hungover during the week and all of those things. C: Right. K: When he was younger, I could be hungover during the week, and nobody really knew that I was hungover during the week. And in kindergarten, I feel like nobody really knew. Although kindergarten, they were starting to notice that sometimes I was hungover. K: Not that I was a drunk or anything, but you know, it happened a couple times a month. C: Yeah. K: And so, people started looking at you funny. And, schools are a trip. Schools will call Child Protective Services on you in a heartbeat for like, the most mundane, ridiculous things. So I was like, okay, I don’t want to be dealing with Child Protective Services. Because like, the one time they called us in. C: Yeah, they didn’t call Child Protective Services. They called us. K: But, they were about to, if we didn’t give them the right answers. C: Yeah, so the school psychologist called us in. And … K: “It’s really, we have a serious matter with Rasta. We need you to come to the school as soon as possible. Please, return this call as soon as possible.” Three times, we got that message on our phone in one day. C: So, we returned the call and said, “Can you tell us what this is about?” C: “No, I’m afraid you’re going to have to come down here.” So, we’re … K: “It’s a really serious matter that we need to discuss in person.” C: You know, we’re headed down there just wondering, like, did he damage his hands permanently playing wall ball, or you know … K: Yeah, did he get in a fight? C: Yeah, what happened? And, he had been doodling, I think. And one of the other students had kind of told on him. K: Not kind of, had completely told on him. C: Okay. K: For doodling. C: And so, he had doodled a monster next to a stick figure. K: Yeah. C: And then … K: Said “person who tells” … C: Person who tells … K: … over the stick figure. C: And then, a monster all by itself, and the monster was saying, “Yum.” K: And then, it was a series of pictures. And then, in the next picture, it said “Monster.” And then, the stick figure was in the belly of the monster, and it said, “Person who tells.” And, they were yelling outside of the monster’s stomach, “Help, help.” C: Yep. K: And then, there was another … I think there was a third figure with just the monster and the stick figure. C: Yep. K: And, that was very ominous to them. They were like, “Are you aware that Rasta’s so violent?” And it’s just like, it took everything I had. I was so good. I was so proud of myself in that meeting. C: You should be proud of yourself in that meeting. K: I was like, “No, we weren’t. And we’re very concerned about it. We’re going to take this very seriously. This is completely unacceptable. And we’ll ensure that he will never do this again. And, what consequences do you think he should have at the school level?” And, they gave him Saturday school for that. C: Yes. K: It’s completely ridiculous. So, those kinds of incidents, like, really took our life in a different direction, in terms of how we were living. C: Yeah, I think so. Because, I think that type of incident, because that wasn’t the only incident with that school. You know, we had incidents about his hair. K: Yeah. C: And, it just became clear that it was a pattern. K: Yeah, and so, we really had to always be the best version of ourselves, because before that school, we had incidents with teachers, with him correcting teacher’s spellings, and then teachers picking on him. C: Right. K: So, it just felt like Rasta really needed us to be present at a different level. C: Yeah. K: And so, our life really became more Rasta centric, where he was the center of the universe, which, all kids should be the center of the universe. C: Well, yeah, he … K: I think when he was younger, he didn’t notice that he wasn’t the center of the universe, because you could strap him in a stroller, and he didn’t really care what we were doing behind pushing him. C: I think he’s always entertained himself. K: Yeah, we’ve been very lucky with that. He loves his own company. C: And, when he was put in a situation where he was basically, punished for entertaining himself when he was bored, rather than looking to other people to entertain himself, then, that wasn’t a long-term, tenable situation. K: Yeah. So, we loved the schools Rasta went to. Nothing bad to say about them. Even though, we kind of just did. No hate, we’re not hating. So, for me, I feel like now, with … Now that Rasta doesn’t live in our home anymore, the level of privacy we have and the freedom of choices we can make, I’m just, I’m not into drinking anymore, so I don’t. C: Yeah. K: So, any group or club, or membership that is focused on partying and drinking being the activity that bonds everybody, I’m just not into that. C: Well, and it’s always been bad for both of us, physically. K: Yeah, because my porphyria and my lupus, I really shouldn’t drink. Didn’t stop me for a lot of years. C: Yeah. K: But, I find now that I’m old, I just don’t have the resiliency. It takes me so long to recover from a hangover now. C: I think that’s the theme. Our social groups now are more determined by being old. K: True that, true that. And, not into drinking. C: Yeah. K: For me, I can’t think of any of my friends that like to drink. C: Mm-hmm. K: Hmm, I hadn’t really thought about that. Actually, I don’t know. We just don’t drink. C: Yeah. K: Huh, maybe, like, I might get wild and crazy and have a Kahlua and milk if we’re out to dinner, or … C: Yeah, I mean, there are people I might go out to dinner with, and they might have a beer or glass of wine. K: Yeah, huh, interesting. There’s another thing I wanted to give a shout out to that I recently learned about, but really haven’t had experience with, that I’m toying with the idea of. Something called Hello Talk, where you can go on there and meet people who are trying to learn a foreign language. C: Okay. K: And, they have a meetup groups in Nagoya, based on the people who live in Nagoya and are on the app. You know, these language-learning things, I so want to learn Japanese. I do. I just want to learn it without putting any effort into it kind of thing. C: Yeah, there’s a critical masses kind of things, like, to geek out a little it’s called the network effect. K: Yeah. C: The more people who belong, the more valuable it is. You know, like Texas A&M, I’m an alumnus of that. And, they contacted me to say, “Hey, would you be interested in meeting other people in Japan who are alumni?” And I said yes, and I never heard from them again. So, I guess they … K: Yeah, so I’m earning my PhD, which is a topic for another episode. But, my chair actually put me in touch with somebody who’s like, 30 miles away. And, we exchanged a couple emails, but we’re like, okay, we get it. We’re in Japan. We’re both earning our PhDs, and we have the same chair. But, we don’t actually have time to travel that 30 miles to meet up. Or, like, we’re busy and we have a full life. So, some people think that they can understand what the points of reference would be for friendships, and I think being in Japan, being from the United States. Or, being in Japan and being Black, those don’t always guarantee that people who have those same points of reference are going to want to be friends with you. C: I think there’s time compatibility. There’s age compatibility. K: Yeah. C: There’s a lot of different ways that you can be incompatible, and that’s okay. I think it only really seems like a big deal sometimes here in Japan because you’re not constantly meeting people. K: Yeah, and I think my friends really spoil me in that, they come to me. C: They do, yes. K: And so, yeah, I’m super, super spoiled, because they’re willing to come to my office so I can … C: Well, you have a nice space. K: Yeah, I have two different units, and I think for my friends with children, it’s really nice, because I have a unit that’s just filled with toys. C: Yep. K: And so, they can come, and we sit there. And the kids just play with toys, make a mess. There’s like, nothing in the room. It’s just a square box with toys in it. There’s no furniture. C: Yeah, well, you see all ages, so … K: Yeah, so, because when I work with little people, it’s fun to let them play. Because play is a big part of their therapy. C: Mm-hmm, right. K: And so, I have friends with kids as young as 18 months, and I also, not for any just … That’s just the age range. I’d be willing to have friends who are pregnant and with younger babies. C: Yeah. K: But, the youngest child right now currently, of all my friends, is 18 months. C: But, 18 months is kind of a magic age in Japan, because it’s the age at which they become eligible for day care. K: Yeah, yeah. And so, I think what they like is that, I can book off a Saturday morning before my first client and say, “Hey, let’s come hang out for two or three hours.” And, it’s really convenient for them because we’re located near a central transportation hub. And then there’s like, a mall, and there’s places to eat, and there’s a park. So, when the weather’s nice, we can hang out at the park and it’s really convenient. C: Yeah, which has a playground. K: Yeah, so I’m really spoiled. So, I think for me, it’s having a point of reference, and a willingness to come to me. Because I struggle to travel outside of the Ozone area. C: Yeah. K: That makes great friendships. C: Yeah. K: So, I feel like a really lazy friend. C: I think people who are willing to work within your limitations. K: Yeah, so, you travel to your friends. C: Yes, so I … K: You like to get out of Ozone, rather. C: Yeah, so I have mobility issues, but my issues affect me whether I’m going anywhere or not. K: Yeah, and I think your cane really helps a lot with that. C: It does, yeah. So, and a lot of people see the cane and they think, “Whoa, your issues must have gotten worse.” And no, actually, if I don’t have it, they’re much worse than if I do. K: Yeah, because you have that … Is it plantar fasciitis? C: I thought that it was. So, my heel was hurting for several months, and I thought that it was. K: Uh-huh, you broke it. C: And, when I went … Yeah, I had actually shattered my heel, so that’s still … They tell me that’ll take a couple of years to heal. K: Yeah. So, that’s us for today. Another gorgeous ramble in the can. C: Yeah, so nominally, that one was about social groups. K: Yeah, hope you tune back in. C: Talk to you later, bye bye. K: Bye.

Episode 151: Sex work in Japan vs the US

K: So lately I’ve been thinking a lot about social media. And, in particular, Instagram. And I find Instagram to be very interesting in that it can’t be scheduled. (laughs) And so, for me, Instagram doesn’t work for my life because I’m inconsistent when it comes to what time I start work, what time I get off work, when I would have time to be on there, and I found that me being inconsistent was hurting the feelings of some of the people who were following us. That made me feel sad, so I just, yeah… Instagram is not my jam. C: So now we’re consistently not posting. K: (laughs) Well, we did do our goodbye post that we’re doing other things, but for me to do Instagram… Instagram is two-and-a-half hours just for me to post something, because posting and hashtags and then responding to the comments and reading the DMs and all of that. And I just, I honestly don’t have 2 1/2 hours on any given day that I can specifically devote to Instagram. C: Especially not at the same time of day. K: Yeah. And so, for me, that made Instagram more work than fun. C: Mmhmm. K: And so it didn’t really feel… ‘cause like, I was enjoying post flower pictures from on my ride to work and I was enjoying posting food pictures, ‘cause I think I make ugly food that tastes really good, and fruit, and just…. I was really enjoying posting the things that we were posting. But, the … it just felt so high pressured. Like, what people wanted. C: Very serious business. K: Right? And I’m like, “It’s social media. It’s not supposed to be that serious!” What was your Instagram experience? C: It was pretty much the same. I’m not even necessarily awake at the same time each day, and it was just a lot of … noise. K: Noise? What do you mean by that? C: I mean there wasn’t a lot of signal. There was a lot of noise. So, some people would post once a day or whatever, but then certain hashtags around like flowers, I think there was one place that was posting like 300 pictures a day. K: Wow. C: That was using the same hashtag. K: Wow. C: And so I tried to be nice and give people likes for their pictures and scrolling through the timeline, you know, 300 pictures of like the same place advertising their floral business, I’m just… I’m no. That’s not me. K: Yeah, I had the same thing. I didn’t… some of the people we were following would post like in between 3 and 10 pictures a day. And I just felt like, I wasn’t… I felt like I couldn’t actually scroll through our timeline and connect. I would have to go to people’s pages to connect with them, and I was posting once a day. And I wasn’t even posting seven days a week. So it felt like a lot, just every aspect of Instagram felt like work to me. Like, every single aspect. There wasn’t any aspect that felt like fun. And then, I also… I don’t know Instagram’s culture, because some people like for you to like and comment, some people don’t want you to comment. And so it would be a trip to me when I would write a nice comment that I thought was supportive and they would delete it. And I’m like, oh, okay, I guess you don’t like comments on your photos. So, it just… I don’t know. It felt like a lot of rigamarole. And I’m not, I don’t enjoy taking pictures. I don’t enjoy photography. C: Right. I guess for me it feels like, and having worked in tech I know this the case, they programmed the features so that you would have to use it in a certain way K: Yes. So not being able to upload pictures from my computer was a huge pain in the butt, and only being able to do it on my iPad was a huge pain in the butt. C: Right. And even on the iPad, you weren’t technically supposed to be able to do that. We had to download the iPhone version of that. It’s a very exclusive club. And there are ways to work around it, but each way is more painful than the last. K: Yeah, and I don’t have a smartphone. So I think that’s part of the reason why Instagram isn’t as fun for me. Because I can’t just whip out my phone and take a picture. Well, I mean I could, but I have a flipphone. C: You have a flip phone, and you don’t answer it ever, and it spends the majority of its time off because it’s for people to leave messages. You call on it. You return messages, but you don’t have it on during  your sessions. K: Yeah, I never have it on in my sessions. C: And you don’t have it on at home. K: Correct. C: So the only times that I think you use your phone are if you’re calling me between sessions or if you’re calling somebody who’s left a voice message for you. K: And then to make it more complex, it’s your message… your voice on the outgoing message. C: Yes, it is. K: So I don’t actually have a… I had a personal phone and a business phone for years, and then I found that I just don’t talk on the phone very much unless it’s… you’re like the only person… you and Rasta, our son Rasta, are the only people I call regularly. C: Well, and if you’re going to talk for that long just either, you know, come home, or Rasta should come here if he’s not here, because he’s only a few minutes away. K: Well because he’s my office manager I do talk to him a lot throughout the day as clients needs arise. C: Mmm, yeah. K: So there’s a lot of stuff that he takes care of for my clients. C: That’s what I’m saying. Those are short conversations. K: Yeah. Sometimes. (both laugh) Hopefully. So I’m not bagging on Instagram, and I’m not anti-Instagram. I think if I had an iPhone, that I would be more into it because it seems to be like it’s made for smartphones. C: It is made for smartphones. K: It’s designed to be used C: They intentionally programmed things to make it so you can’t use it without a smartphone. K: So for me the reason I’m not getting a smartphone is because I have an iPad. And a smartphone is just more technology than I need in a phone. C: Yes. K: I find. And I’m not a big phone person, so… and I don’t enjoy texting. So, for me, the biggest benefit of a smartphone, to me and for me, would be the ability to text. C: Right. K: And I don’t enjoy text. I enjoy email, and I enjoy talking on the phone. Talking in person is my most favorite. C: Well, I mean, I know that computers had just started to become available, personal computers, when I was young. But had they invented the alphabet yet when you were? K: (laughs) So for me, personal computers were not a thing until I was 30. Like, in my 20s, personal computers were not a thing. I remember getting my first email address. It was a yahoo account, kissmetwo, and I was 27 or 28 at the time. C: Yeah, I think that was the wide availability of the Internet. Because the Internet became widely available in 1995 which I know because I was at the first Internet conference ever, which was the Netscape conference. It was so boring. (K laughs) I went to the St. Francis and watched a movie during part of it. Screamers, in case you care. Sci-fi movie. K: Streamers? C: Screamers. K: Oh, screamers, okay. C: Yeah. Sci-fi movie. K: Is that those things that tunnel… C: Yeah, that’s the one. K: Okay. C: So, but I mean, a lot of the stuff that’s being re-invented, you know… chatting and things… in what ’92? I was on the university’s system using a program called ‘talk’ where you could do the same thing. But it was only available to people basically in university or who had some connection. I had to sign a thing promising that I would never use the Internet to make money. (K laughs) K: And so that’s my other thing with Instagram. It seems like, for me, that competitiveness, because when we’re on Instagram, people would comment a lot about how many followers we had. I think we have like, I don’t know, a couple thousand. So in between a thousand and four thousand. I don’t know. But, for me that was strange, like because that wasn’t what I was doing on Instagram. What I was doing on Instagram was just messing around and sharing our interests. And one of my hobbies is, which I didn’t talk about during our hobby thing, but I like to ride around the neighborhood, especially on the way from our house to my office, because they have so many really really cute what I think of as ‘porch gardens’. Where they just have tons of flowers on their front porch. Which is so Japanese. Because I never saw that in the United States because everybody had a front yard. And in Japan they have like maybe a foot of space in front of their home, and they would fill those 12 inches of space with flowers. I think that’s so cool. And then there’s also several parking lots that have dirt and they line the parking lot with flowers. And then there’s a cute temple that has, you know, really pretty blossoming trees. So I felt like taking the different paths that I would ride to work and taking pictures of the different flowers, I was celebrating the garden enthusiasts on Instagram. C: Makes me think about how it’s interesting what’s designated as a park here. Because we live near what’s called Yada Park 2. And it is literally a space big enough for about 10 people to stand and a drinking fountain. And that’s the park. K: So there are tons of parks from here to the office. C: Right. K: And one of them is, like, the size of a parking lot for a car. A parking space for a car. And it has a couple of uneven bars and a bench. C: Yeah. K: And no grass. So, for me, that was the biggest culture shock thing was the fact that the parks here in Japan do not have grass. Most of them do not have grass. C: No, neither do the schoolyards. K: Right. And so, that was quite surprising. I remember Rasta and I were out driving the other day and I saw, we passed two parks with grass. C: Oh my goodness! K: It was like, oh my gosh, make a mental note. This is so awesome! (C laughs) And I’m doing… so, Rasta’s young. Not ready for children. But I am so like mentally preparing like grandma notes. Like, okay, I need a park with grass because it just wouldn’t feel right for me to take my grandbaby to a park that doesn’t have grass. C: Mmhmm. Let’s go play in the dirt? K: Well I loved playing in the dirt when I was little, so I don’t know. If you have water, I loved making mud pies and mud cakes, so that’s like really fun. So I guess that would depend on who he marries. And whether or not she’s okay with kids getting dirty. C: Mmm. K: But then I guess I could low-key take them somewhere they could make mud pies and then bring them back to my house and hose them off and put them in clean clothes if she’s anti-dirty kids. C: Yeah, we have a hose on the balcony. (K laughs) K: And I think that’s … I know people who are like “Don’t get the kids dirty” and I’m like “Pfft, that’s no fun. No fun if you can’t get dirty.” So with Instagram it just feels like hypercompetitive. And then I’m a huge huge YouTube fanatic. I watch YouTube every day. I absolutely love YouTube. And one of my favorite things to watch on YouTube are people faking things on Instagram. And I’m just “Wow, are you kidding me?” The latest one I watched was somebody faking being on vacation in Europe for a week. C: I think I heard that one when you were watching it. K: Yeah, and they did a really great job of it. And they fooled most of their Instagram followers. But that just seems so weird to me. C: Mmhmm. K: And then the other thing is people pretending to be rich on Instagram, which I find very interesting, like they spend all of this time pretending to be rich to get followers so that they can become an influencer so that they can become rich. C: Yes. K: And I was like, “What?” So they’re spending between 10 and 15 hours a day on Instagram and I’m just like, I don’t want social media to be a job. C: Yeah. K: So, I think of YouTube as social media. Do you? C: Yes. K: And I absolutely love YouTube, and I have two YouTube channels with no videos on them. I don’t know why I have two YouTube channels. I think YouTube… C: I think you’ve got one video. You have an intro video for your practice. K: Okay. Yeah, I… yeah, okay. Yeah. But I also have a Kisstopher Musick YouTube channel. I think it was like, I wanna say, about 7 or 8 years ago. C: I think that was auto-created because of your Google account. They were experimenting with if you log into YouTube while you’re logged into Google it’ll create a YouTube account for you. K: Yeah, I don’t think that was it. But I totally rock with your theory. C: Yes. Thank you. I like it when you rock with my theory even when you think it’s wrong. K: Yep. Because I chose the picture that’s on my YouTube. And so I remember YouTube asking me if I want a YouTube channel. C: Right. K: And I just said “Yeah”. So there’s that. And then I have a couple of videos that I’m in on other people’s channels. C: Yes. K: And you can check those out at TheMusicksInJapan.com on our website. Because I have all of my appearances and videos and all of that stuff on there. C: Well, and I have one math video up. That’s my entire YouTube channel. K: Which has tons and tons of views. C: Well a couple of thousand views. I don’t know how many likes. K: I know how many views there are, not how many likes. It had conversation for a while. Comments for a while. So that’s your dissertation video. C: Right. K: The video that goes to your dissertation on the unknot. C: Yes. K: So, for me, I love YouTube, but now everybody is like, “If you don’t have at least this many views on YouTube, you don’t matter.” And it feels very competitive. And I don’t have … and YouTube takes a long, long time to do. So… for me, the main reason I don’t have any content on YouTube channel, because we had played with putting video of us making this podcast. C: Yes, we had. K: Onto YouTube. And I’m like, “Man, but to do it right takes… whew! 8 to 15 hours?” For one video. C: Now let’s get a ring light. K: Yeah, we’ve gotta get all kinds of equipment. C: Check the albedo of our walls. Any time you have to use the word “albedo” unless you’re an astronomer, you’re doing something wrong. K: Yeah. So I look at someone like Shane Dawson, who I’m a huge Shane Dawson fan and I think he’s just a prolific and successful YouTuber by anyone’s standards, especially considering since YouTube doesn’t promote his videos ever. Like, someone at YouTube has a beef with Shane Dawson, and I don’t know why. And then that makes me really nervous. C: Mmm. K: Like, really? C: They hated Dawson’s Creek that much. K: Well you look at Shane Dawson, who has like, I don’t know, 8 million, probably over 8 million subscribers by this time, and he gets millions of views, and he never makes the trending page because somebody doesn’t like him. And he makes videos about YouTube hates me all the time. And so I look at him, who’s super successful, and then I look at all of the scandals he’s been involved in, and things he’s been accused of, and people just really attacking him and wanting to destroy him, for no other reason than being successful on YouTube. And that makes me scared of YouTube. And then all of the, the channels that are dedicated to just drama, which, hey, I enjoy them. I watch them. Nothing against them. But I just really don’t people digging around in my panty drawers like that, you know. C: Yeah. K: Looking for scandal and looking for things. So, I don’t know. And I don’t want to ever be recognized on the street. Ever. For anything. So I just feel like I’m too private and I enjoy my life, and I don’t want drama. C: Well I feel like YouTube really focuses on the centralization of attention. Like, let’s make sure that a few people get the majority of the views. So, you know, you might have one video with 8 billion views, and the average video might have 10s of thousands of views but the median video probably has 10 views. You know, you’ve got huge numbers of videos that nobody ever watches. K: And so, for me, I enjoy, like, I’ll search YouTube all the time, videos with no views, videos with less than 10 views, and even when you do a search where you’re looking for those videos, it’s really hard to get videos with no views. C: So how social is YouTube for you? Do you comment? K: No. I rarely comment. I do give a thumbs-up. I do ‘like’ a lot. C: Okay. K: But I don’t comment. C: You give the thumb of approval but you don’t comment. K: Correct. What do you do on YouTube? C: I almost never watch it. I find it really painful. K: Okay. Why? C: I just find video in general painful, so K: Ooh, wait, I have to give Ants Canada, that channel, a shout-out. It’s one of my favorite channels. C: It is. K: Rasta turned me onto it, and I love love love the channel. It’s all about ants. And the person used to live in Canada but now they live, I think in the Philippines, but it’s a really fun, really fun channel, and … I don’t know. I love the way. I love the sound of his voice and the way he talks, “Okay guys…” he’s super excited about everything. That’s my imitation of him. I don’t do impressions, but really dig it. Okay, back to what you were saying C: I’m saying I find video in general difficult, so I don’t watch a lot of TV. You and I have a couple of shows that when they come on we’ll watch them. K: Yeah. C: But you notice I don’t watch a lot of TV independently. Like, I haven’t watched Daredevil Season 3 yet, and I don’t know if it’s been out for a year yet, but it’s been out for a while. Even though Vincent D’Onofrio is one of my favorite actors and I just love his portrayal, I just… if there’s ten episodes in a show, it’ll probably take me about a year to finish once I start watching it. K: So, I think it’s important for listeners to know that you have watched Daredevil seasons 1 and 2. C: Yes. K: And you did watch them under a year. You watched Season 1 fairly quickly, at a pretty brisk pace. You watched about one show a day. Which, for you is your version of binge-viewing. C: Yeah, because it’s not any snobbishness, it’s just that, like, I’m not a very visual person and I have problems with the epilepsy, the sensitivity of my eyes, and if I don’t know what’s coming up on the screen it’s a lot harder. So I play a lot of video games, but I don’t watch a lot of TV. K: And so I don’t TV as a social media thing. C: No, it’s not. K: But I do view YouTube as a social media thing. C: Yeah, there’s a whole community thing… K: Yeah. So, it’s not communal for me, and I wonder… should I get involved in the communities? And then I immediately think, “No, I don’t have time.” C: Yeah, I think it’s about what you have time for and what you connect with. Like, a few years ago, back when I was doing my PhD, I was on Reddit, in just the math forum. K: Okay. I love Reddit. C: Yeah, so just in the math forum, but the other forums are like… I didn’t understand what was going on. Like, why are you people talking about this? K: So I absolutely love the Reddit subfeed RuPaul’s Drag Race. It’s a mean subfeed. It’s a mean feed, but I enjoy reading it because it has really great spoilers, and I’m a huge spoilers fan. Spoil everything for me. I wanna know how things are going to work out, to keep me from getting emotionally involved, because if I didn’t, like, I would find RuPaul’s Drag Race painful to watch because I really feel attached to some of the queens, and so if they’re going to be eliminated, I want to know before watching it. C: So you can start letting go before seeing the pain happen. K: Yes, that’s exactly how I feel. I never send anybody hate over RuPaul’s Drag Race, and I think if anybody in the fandom is sending hate, they need to stop that. Stop threatening people. And stop sending death threats. Even if you don’t intend to do it, so that’s another issue of why I’m with like… on Reddit there are certain things that I’m interested in, but I don’t engage because I don’t want people to be like “Okay, you’re a superfan, so we’re going to attack you for your opinions about this reality TV show.” C: Right. K: And I’m just like, it’s a reality TV show. And, for me, everybody who’s on RuPaul’s Drag Race, you’re a winner, baby. You know? You immediately get fame because I just think of like, look at miss Vanjie. Miss Vanjie went home first, but Miss Vanjie was absolutely the most talked about queen on her season. So you can go home first and still be the most famous. And like, look at Pork Chop. Pork Chop was the first one ever eliminated, in Season 1, and Pork Chop is really famous and has multiple crowns for drag pageants and such. So, for me, I find that I have some fear with social media. C: Mmhmm. K: Because I don’t want to be trolled. And, so there are certain social media platforms that I view as just being very mean. C: Yes. K: And Reddit is one of them. C: Yeah, that’s certainly. The math forum is not, but a lot of the other forums are, because it depends on the moderators. They’re allowed a lot of latitude. So I think our main social media is Twitter. K: Yeah. C: And I actively block anybody… if I see somebody trolling somebody else. It doesn’t matter. K: With a quickness. C: With a quickness. It doesn’t matter if they’re not trolling me. It doesn’t matter if they’re not trolling anything about either of us. Like with the— K: Yeah, mess with our tweeps you’re gonna get the block. C: It’s not even necessarily about our tweeps. If I see somebody make like an anti-transgender remark, I’m blocking. K: Oh, done. C: I’m going to block them. If I see somebody make hate remarks, I’m going to block them. I’m also going to block people who make those remarks sarcastically. One, because I don’t know. And two, because that remark is still out there. So, in person, I sometimes engage in sarcasm. I know that… K: But we never engage in sarcasm about … individuals that are trans or individuals who are disabled or people of color. There are certain things that we just don’t joke about. C: Yeah, no, no. So my sarcasm is always sarcastic commiseration. Which I do in person, but I don’t do on social media because I know that it’s not always taken that way. It’s like an in-joke. I don’t tell in-jokes on social media. K: You don’t tell what? C: In-jokes. K: Okay. So, for me, I feel like there are certain things that are off limits to me because it’s not my experience. And I’m really aware of that, so I limit my commentary to my experience. And I do tweet a lot of LGBT+ tweets, and pro-active tweets, because I am part of that group. That is part of my in-group. Every once in a while I’ll tweet about things that are not part of my experience, and I’m always very careful to be respectful when I’m tweeting about those things. To not make jokes, and to ask questions. And if I make a mistake, and this is something I wish everybody would learn. If you make a mistake, just apologize. C: What? That’s crazy? K: Right? Like if I say something that’s offensive, or if I misspeak, don’t come at me with hate, but do let me know “Hey, that hurt my feelings”, and I’ll say I’m sorry. I don’t get this anti-political-correctness group of people that “we should just be able to say what we want, everybody’s too easily offended.” No… just no. Because, for me, as a Black woman who’s pansexual, I find that I carry a lot of core pain around issues of being Black. I carry core pain around issues of being a woman. And I carry core pain around issues of being a member of the LGBT+ community. So if you say something that touches my core pain, and I tell you “Hey, dude, that hurt me,” don’t be a jerk. Just apologize. Don’t get offended. Just apologize. Because I’m sharing my experience with you. And I’m trying to educate you. So when somebody comes to me with the energy of informing me, because something that I’m learning a great deal about is ability and disability. C: Mmhmm. K: And a great deal about ableism. And I found that some… I had to really deconstruct my views, because there are some views of mine that I did not realize were ableist views. And so having to deconstruct those because they weren’t any bias, they were just ignorance. Things that I just honestly didn’t know that were important to other people because I also have disability. But that doesn’t mean I know everything about every disability. C: Right. K: And I have the same thing when it comes to being a proud Black woman. I’m a proud Black woman. I identify as Black. But there are some of my sisters out there who really, who are really hurt if I don’t identify as African American, being a Black woman from America. So, for me, most times in public I identify as African American because I’m sensitive to their pain. And I’m sensitive to the issues that they’re talking about with colorism and feeling that I’m distancing myself from Africa, when I’m not. For me, not identifying as African American is saying that I’m Black instead of African American, which I do now identify as African American because I understand how painful it is to others if I don’t. For me, it was a protest. I was saying that you do not get to restore my country back to me in half-steps. Because I am a descendant of slaves–my great-grandfather was freed by the Emancipation Proclamation–you do not get to tell me that I have to claim a continent. C: Mmhmm. K: Until you can tell me where my people are from, I’m not going to let you heal that pain. You are going to see my pain, and hear my pain, every time you talk to me. You are going to hear that my great-grandfather was freed by the Emancipation Proclamation. You are going to hear that connection to Africa. You are going to hear that connection to slavery, which is deeply personal for all Black folks in the US. At least the Black folks I know. And so I get that being called African American, for some generations, is treating them with respect and healing for them. For me, being African American heals no wounds. It doesn’t heal anything for me. Being Black heals things for me. And so, being able to put my fist up in the air and say “Yes, I’m Black and I’m Proud, Say It Loud,” for me, I’m Blackity Black Black Black. But, I understand that I don’t want to give people who are not Black permission to call my sisters Black. So therefore I’m African American in mixed company. So, like, that big long thing that I just took people on, there’s no way anybody can be aware of that, just tweeting on social media. And so for me, if someone just tweets at me, and they make a mistake… C: Right. K: Then I can share that mistake with them. And I think you have the same experience with ableism. C: Yeah, I do. K: And especially with autism. C: Yes. K: That a lot of people are talking about the autistic experience and not quite getting it right for me. C: Yeah, I think most people who are not autistic don’t quite get it right. And there are those people who know they’re not getting it right, and they listen. And there are those people who don’t know they’re not getting it right because it’s centered around them and their relationship to somebody who has autism. K: Yeah. Which, I think is really sad. C: Yeah, so I mean, there’s a schism in the Autistic Dark Web, which is people who don’t believe that people like me are actually autistic because I’m able to function in most areas of my life. K: Yeah, I think that’s too bad for them. C: Yeah, and you know, you can read our twitter if you want to see all the ins and outs of that. But I think that unless you find somebody who can speak authoritatively and definitively on the subject, that it can be hard to know, like, who’s legitimate and who’s not. K: Yeah. C: And so, as an example, when I was in high school, I read a book called “The Miseducation of Little Tree”, which was really controversial after it came out because it’s about a boy taken off of an Indian Reservation, and it was supposedly written by the boy and it was his story. And then it turns it out that it was written by a really famous racist. K: And so something… the way that you just characterized that is interesting. Because for me, saying “an Indian Reservation”, I don’t like that language. I like “Indigenous People”, but not all Indigenous people like Indigenous people. And so for me, I prefer to identify as Native American or Indigenous. I don’t identify as Indian, ever. C: Well, and I wouldn’t call somebody who is Native American or Indigenous or First Nations or Chocktaw, or whatever they identify as, “Indian”. What I use it for is that “Indian Reservation” is a specific thing set up by the US government as a way to strip the autonomy of the Indigenous peoples. And so it’s not that I would call… there are people I would called Indian, but they’re from India. Right. K: And so I just look at how complex identity is, and I think that if we’re really … if we’re willing to be open, then social media can be a fun place for education. And, for me, having… always having humility when I’m on social media is so important. And I find that Facebook has really helped me out a lot with that. Interestingly enough. Because I belong to several closed groups. So, one of the groups that I belong to is “Black Women in Japan”. Hey Girls! Love my sistahs! Love all the queens! And it is such a beautiful, loving and supportive community for Black women who live in Japan. And there are Black women from the Caribbean, from South America, so we have Afro-Latinas, we have Black women from Europe, we have … just from all over. And, including Australia. So for every area of the world, and there are a lot of individuals with mixed cultures and different cultures, and a lot of individuals that have a single culture but the thing that we all connect with is that somebody in our family came from Africa. And so C: Right. And sometimes it was them. K: Yeah! (laughs) Yes. And so, I love love love the group. And it’s giving me so much education about what it means to be Black. And what it means to be Black in Jamaica is very different than what it means to be Black in California. Very different than what it means to be Black in the UK, and so on and so forth. So I really love getting the mix of all of these beautiful bright intelligent women, but we all come in with the understanding that my story is not your story. And so therefore, the only way I can know your story is to ask. And if I share something that’s offensive, please talk to me about it. Don’t immediately get angry. Like, in the group, there’s often conversations about colorism. And I own that I am light-skinned. And I own that, unfortunately, that that does give me certain privileges. And there was a thread about that, and some of the ladies were really offended. Some of the fairer complexion, because they felt that they were being picked on. And I just felt like, “No, this is our sister, who’s expressing something she’s going through and experiencing and asking our opinions about it and our views,” and so if we can put down our defenses and come together in the spirit of community, that’s what the Black Women in Japan group’s taught me. Always come to the group with the community, sharing, and openness. And don’t think that something is pointed at you unless they at you and say “Hey!” C: This is pointed at you? K: Yeah. “Hey, Kisstopher, this is what I think about you.” Then I’m like, okay, that’s directed at me. And I find that I have the same experience with my Foreign Women in Business in Japan group, which is another closed group on Facebook that I belong to. And there are some ladies who … have asked, “Should we open this up to Japanese nationals?” And there’s a lot of discussion about that. Like, what is the difference between being a Japanese woman in business in Japan versus being a foreign woman in business, and there’s a lot of discussion in the group about, you know, we do allow Japanese women to join, but the name is still “Foreign Women in Business” because as a foreign women who has a business, there are things that are unique to my experience. C: Right. K: And so it’s not exclusive, it is inclusive, but the name really says, you know what the focus is, and it is mostly foreign women. So I love Facebook for the closed groups. And I have currently I think 4 Facebook pages that I run and manage, and I don’t run them very well. They’re not regularly updated, and C: Well, we have ours which receives periodic updates. K: Yeah, and so the one for The Musicks, because we’re not TheMusicksInJapan on Facebook, we’re just TheMusicks C: As on Twitter. K: Yeah. And so that gets automatically updated because I’m able to schedule it. And then mine just mine Kisstopher Musicks… (C laughs) … I don’t know when that gets updated. It got updated more when I was doing Instagram. And then I have “Adjustment Guidance” and I have “Adjustment Guidance Nagoya Therapist”, and those get updated once a week, I think. C: Yeah. You tried to set up one of them, I don’t remember which one. And the other one was set up automatically, and Facebook gave you control of it when it became clear that yes, that was your company. K: So I set up Adjustment Guidance C: Okay K: And then *they* set up Adjustment Guidance Nagoya Therapist. They thought it was a better name than Adjustment Guidance for my Facebook page. I tried to merge the two, and they will not let me merge them, so now I’m just whatever, and I run both pages. I just schedule. And I do, like, one post a week, and they’re always harassing me. “Adjustment Guidance fans haven’t heard from you in a long time!” Two or three times a week they send me a message that I need to… C: Facebook harasses me. They send me messages that I haven’t logged in, and there’ll be like “Freddy”… I don’t think I have any Facebook friends actually named Freddy, so… “Freddy told a story your Facebook friends really liked.” And I’ll be like, no, “Freddy” did not. (K laughs) I know Freddy, and Freddy did not. Stop lying to me Facebook. K: So something that I was really shocked about. Just last night on Facebook, so… anybody who sends Kisstopher Musick a friend request, I’ll just click it and say yes. I had no idea that there’s hardcore pornography on Facebook. I was like, “What?” Like, full-on straight-up hardcore porn, like you can see everything everything porn. C: I didn’t know that. I know that I say no to almost nobody. So  you send me a friend request and I don’t know  who you are, I’ll ignore it or delete it, or if it’s offensive I’ll block you. K: See, and I’ll say yes, and just accept you as a friend. Because I’m not doing anything. C: But I used to get a lot “Hi, I’m 19 and bored and lonely. Don’t you wanna see more pictures of me?” No. I do not. K: No, but now I’m getting just straight-up porn videos. So I clicked, like I got a friend request, and I clicked “Sure”, why not, because I clicked yes on everybody. And then I got a private message that was hardcore porn. So then I clicked to the person’s page because I was just curious, like, what is this page doing? Because we have like 77 friends in common. So I’m like okay, 77 other people who… C: Well, that’s against the rules. Not having 77 friends, but pornography is against the rules. K: But it was a straight-up pornographic video. Like PornHub level pornographic video. And, you know, hey, I love me some porn. I do. C: Yeah, but the key word is “some”. K: Yeah. And I like to pick my porn, and this porn wasn’t particularly my flavor. But I looked at it and I was like “Huh.” The more interesting thing is I did not unfriend them. (laughs) I was like, I was surprised by my decision to not unfriend them. C: That is an interesting choice. Because I am block and report. That’s me. I’m the block and report guy. K: I figure like, hey, you know, do your thing. C: Mmhmm. K: Like, it’s so hard to make money doing porn these days. You know? If you can make some money off of porn on Facebook, I’m like go for it. C: I know there’s a lot of bots and things. I know that our Twitter following, I know that we probably have a couple thousand bots in there. Because I see our follower sometimes will go up and down by, like, 50 or 100 in a day and I think okay, people are being blocked or unblocked or whatever. And I know it’s because when I got my very first email address, because my last name is Musick, I used to get, before spam filters improved, between 50 and 100 spams a day. K: Wow. C: From people associated with the music business trying to get me to buy things. K: Ahh. C: So I know that a lot… I think you posted about some music one time, and we got 5,000 followers the next day. Because, well, we’ve got Musick K: Agnes Mo! C: Oh, yeah, Agnes Mo. K: Yeah, when I tweeted about Agnes Mo, we could gain a couple thousand a day. C: Because we’ve got music in the name, you’re tweeting about music. K: No, it’s straight-up Agnes Mo bots. It’s specific to Agnes Mo. C: So, because I know there was one time that our Twitter following was, like, it jumped above 25,000. And then fell like 10,000 the next day. K: Yeah. So that was Agnes Mo. Amara La Negra, sometimes if I post about her. Because I like to post about underground music or people who haven’t broke through in the mainstream. C: Yeah. K: And a lot of times people will have bots set up for their fan… for their idols that they’re into. C: So I try to remember to say this on Twitter sometimes, but, you know, we’ve got a few hundred people that we interact with on a regular basis. If you think we should be following you and we’re not, just let us know. Because I don’t autofollow back. K: I find tweet at us is better than a DM. C: Oh, yeah. Definitely tweet at us about it. K: And it is a shared joint account, so you can’t just reach Chad by tweeting at us. C: And we’ve done that, too. I tweeted at somebody “Hey, when will I be cool enough for you to follow me?” And they tweeted back, “I don’t?” and followed us. So. K: So, two other forms of social media that I want to talk about before we end today. Tumblr. I absolutely love Tumblr. I had a Tumblr account for a while for Adjustment Guidance, and it’s still active. I haven’t shut it down. But I also don’t use it, and I found that Tumblr has turned into, for some reason it has turned into Tumblr after dark. I don’t know why. C: That actually changed in December of 2018. They changed the rules. And it’s no longer any adult content allowed. K: Ahh, okay. So that shows you how long it’s been since I’ve looked at my Tumblr. Which means probably today I’ll look at my Tumblr and see what’s going on. (C laughs) But I don’t know if I even remember my password. And the reason I don’t do Tumbler is I’m busy. So, for me, a lot of social media kind of fell by the wayside when I started my PhD. And I had a bunch of coursework to do, so I spent the first three years of my PhD doing coursework to finish and update everything. C: And I think before that, too, you were doing a lot of things to advertise your business, including paid advertising, when you were first building your business. And now you’re at the point, which is a great point to be at, that you get enough referrals to replace the people who finish their therapy. K: Yeah. Finish their therapy and leave Japan. And so I find that Tumblr for me is just too much work, and too time consuming. And then Snapchat came on board after I started my PhD, I wanna say? C: Yeah, I don’t even know Snapchat. K: So I remember Snapchat being that thing that you do for porn to send people your bits. C: Because they disappear, and yeah… K: And then they didn’t and people got in trouble. But, like, in terms of just getting up in the morning and Snapchatting… not my bag. Like, I don’t… and then getting people…. (grumbles)… just the whole thing of it. Like, who would you follow on Snapchat? And I think that’s another smartphone thing, because people getting up and taking a video of themselves C: Yeah, I don’t even know. Because anything visually based I’m probably not going to be on it. And then there’s some social media things that are more specific. Like forums and things. I’m on some writing forums. I used to be on K: Well, you’re on Medium. But I don’t think you’ve posted to Medium for a while. C: I haven’t posted to Medium for a while. I post maybe once a month. K: I think Medium is awesome. I recommend Medium. I highly highly recommend Medium if you’re a writer or a poet or a blogger. I know on our website we have… C: I have some poems on Medium. I read on Medium, so…. K: Because I think now everything you write is posted on our website, rather than on Medium. Or do you still post on Medium? C: So, essays and things and stuff I post to our website. Some other stuff I post on Medium in publications. Like I’m in a publication called Disability Acts, and then I’ll like to it from our website. So you can always find everything I’ve written that’s not in book form from a link a link from our website. And I used to participate in MathOverflow when I was in my PhD program, which is another social. So, you know, things come and go. K: And then something that I kind of think of as social media, but I’m not strictly sure. Well, like, Pinterest is social media. I decided a long time ago not to do Pinterest because, again, time consuming. And, like, Google Groups? Too time consuming. But… enh… and some people might get mad, but don’t get mad. Sorry not sorry. But I think of like Psychology Today, those types of magazines have really started to feel like social media to me. C: Well, they have forums and things where people go and chat. K: No, I’m saying straight up, the articles feel like social media. C: Oh, yeah. K: Because some of the stuff I read, I’m like, “That’s just been disproven scientifically. That’s just scientifically wrong.” And for me, I think it’s important for people to understand that just because it’s in a magazine, or just because the website has a magazine title, doesn’t mean that it’s good information. Like, WebMD, sometimes is spot on and sometimes is completely and wildly inaccurate. C: My toe hurts. … You’ve got the bubonic plague! Oh no! K: Yeah, and so for me I feel like being a smart consumer of what’s on the Internet is super important. So I always look to associations, rather than magazines. I don’t C: Right K: So for me, like, the American Psychological Association, that’s research based. The American Speech and Hearing Association, that’s research based. C: Well, and I talk about this professionally. I give presentations about this. About fake journals and predatory journals and stuff, so that’s a whole other conversation. But yeah, I think a lot of things their credibility has gone down as they’ve tried to find new revenue streams. K: Yes. C: Because Psychology Today used to be very much pop psychology, it’s always been that K: Yeah, it always has C: But it used to be shallow but accurate. And sometimes it’s no longer accurate. K: Well, and I find too that Psychology Today now has… because they solicited me to submit articles. And, I know you guys are going to be sick of me saying this, but I just don’t have enough time right now. And I looked into it to see, like, C: How much they pay? (K laughs) K: Yes, which is nothing for some contributors. And if you build up… so it’s just like any other things, if you build up a following and get so many hits and this that and the other, then you do get paid. So they had solicited me to contribute just so I could get the byline. And I find that if I want a byline, for me, NagMag, which is a local magazine here, is better because I’ve written tons of articles that have appeared in NagMag. C: Yeah, I write for the American Chamber of Commerce journal. I think my fourth or fifth… K: The American Chamber of Commerce Japan. C: In Japan. Their journal, I think my fourth or fifth article is coming out this next month. Whatever month… I don’t know. K: Yeah, and I have, I have an interview in The Japan Times that someone reached out and I contributed to, so I have other things that feel more relevant to my life. C: But neither the grocery store nor our condo association has ever accepted bylines as payment. (K laughs) So… K: Correct. And so I don’t have the energy to build up things that aren’t passion projects. C: Yeah. K: And so I support and salute everyone who is contributing to Psychology Today. To me it just feels like another social medium forum that people can contribute to that organizes things based on a topic. C: Well, and that’s what I said when we talked about how we make our money is that there are certain things I’m either doing for free or I’m fairly expensive, although in line with market rates. K: Yeah, and so for me the reason why I’m not doing Psychology Today is I’m trying to get my life together and put together some freebies and giveaways on our website, like different tests and screening tools and psychological support tools. And I look at, okay, I could either write an article and post on social media, or I could spend my time maintaining the things that I’m passionate about and furthering other things that I want to do. And so for me, giving free good resources to people is something I’m passionate about. And so, yeah, go to our website. Check out what freebies we have going on. C: And you can also find a link to our social media. K: Yep. So, you know, follow us on social media. And we hope you enjoyed today’s ramble. C: And we hope you’ll come back for our next ramble. K: Have a good one. Bye. C: Bye bye.

K: Lately I’ve been thinking about property ownership and the security that it creates; also the process of purchasing property. We’ve purchased property in the United States and purchased property in Japan and I feel like the process was really different for both.  C: Yes, it was.  K: For me the biggest difference was I know for a fact you dealt with the money stuff, I didn’t.  C: Right  K: For me, the biggest difference was how many pieces of property we looked at, how we looked at the property and how long it took. I feel like in the United States, it took way longer.  C: It did take way longer. I’m not sure that wasn’t just luck though…  K: What do you mean?  C: I mean, maybe we just looked, like, were lucky to find we liked in Japan quicker than we found one we liked in the US.  K: How so? I’m not seeing luck at all.  C: You’re not familiar with the concept of luck? Or you’re just not…  K: (LAUGHTER) I’m not familiar with the concept of luck in this context, I’m not understanding… Are you saying because when we started looking in the United States, they took us literally to a crack den the first time? The Real Estate agent didn’t know it had been… it had been standing empty, it was in a decent neighborhood, but it had been standing empty for, I think, six months.  C: Right  K: Somebody was squatting there, and the person, or people, who were squatting there was smoking crack, because there was all kinds of crack paraphernalia and stuff.  It was a two-story; we walked in, the first floor was just trashed, and the Real Estate agent was like, “Do you want to go upstairs?”, and I was like, “No! I don’t need to see upstairs in this crack den, are you out your mind?!”  C: It may have been raccoons…  K: (LAUGHTER) Yes, you did say that you thought it was raccoons! Bless her heart, but she was not the brightest bulb in any respect, by any stretch of the imagination, she was a bit dim…  C: See, I think she was just really trying to sell some property. She wasn’t sure anything else would be any better.  K: Yeah. Because the house that we ended up buying wasn’t actually in that much better of condition, except it was being lived in at the time.  C: Correct.  K: So, we ended up having to rebuild the house.  C: When we bought the house, it had a room over the garage, which we found out wasn’t permitted. We couldn’t actually use that, so we had to rebuild the garage. But we also didn’t get the keys.  K: (LAUGHTER) Yes. Yes.  C: They sent us a note, I forget how because it wasn’t email, I think, it was through the Realtor. “The keys are on the kitchen counter”.  K: Yes! (LAUGHTER)  C: This is not particularly helpful when the keys to open the door to get to the kitchen counter are on the kitchen counter!  K: Yes  C: Luckily, you being Black and all…  K: No, wait, I have to tell this side of it….  C: Yes, you tell this side  K: I don’t want you to get lit up, so  C: OK  K: So, me and another girlfriend of mine, who is also Black – a friend of ours, were always touting our “ghetto cred”. So we were saying that, because we’re Black and we have “ghetto experience”, that you being so… you’re one of the whitest people on the face of the earth, and to just look at you… if someone were to just meet you there, they’d think you grew up pristine…  C: Uh-huh  K: Our friend was always saying that you grew up with a silver spoon in your mouth. I wasn’t, which drove me nuts… but, we thought that because I’ve got ‘street cred’, because I’m ‘ghetto’ – which has nothing to do with being Black – but, I felt like I’m ‘ghetto’, I’ve got ‘street cred’, I’m going to handle this.  C: Well, the other person was always saying, “You’re white, so you don’t have street cred..”  K: Yes, she was saying that her Blackness gave her ‘street cred’… I don’t know why she always said that since she grew up middle class.  C: Yeah, I hung out with her mom, like, it was..  K: She was one that was “more silver spoon in the mouth” than either of us were, and I don’t feel that my Blackness has anything to do with my Ghetto Fabulousness. I felt Ghetto Fabulous at the time that you met me because I had been raised in the foster care system, I had emancipated at 16 and I was living in the ghetto.  C: Right  K: Like, in the ghetto of San Jose – but the San Jose ghetto is not hard-core. There are gangs and stuff, but back then, I don’t know how it is now, but, back then it was pretty like gang-lite.  C: I think that word is always political. I mean, look back at the Jewish ghettos, which is where it came from. And I know you’re also Jewish.  K: Yeah  C: And then it came to be applied to primarily Black neighborhoods, so I think when people say “the ghetto”, it usually doesn’t have any particular meaning.  K: Our friend always made “ghetto” synonymous with being Black, but that had to do with her own self-loathing. She really struggled with her Blackness; I don’t struggle with mine. I felt like my ghettofiedness, street cred, it came more from the foster care system and living on my own since I was 16 – and the fact that I lived in the actual ghetto.  It was interesting because my street was at the very beginning of where the ghetto started, and there weren’t any stabbings or shooting on my street, but the next street over, once a month there’d be a stabbing or some sort of violence. But I always felt really safe. There were a couple of times that the street was closed because they were searching for somebody who had shot or stabbed someone and I couldn’t get home, but for the most part, I always felt safe. I never felt afraid, I would walk the streets at night, by myself.  C: I was never afraid in your neighborhood, but your neighborhood had a lower police presence. You were on the edge of the police presence.  Two blocks away there was an anti-cruising regulation, so if they saw you driving past them, you’d get a ticket. There was really heavy police monitoring.  K: Yeah  C: So, I mean, I think that what’s perceived as a dangerous neighborhood or not, is usually completely wrong. But, that’s beside the point.  K: Yes, we digress again (LAUGHTER) Digressing… oh, you want to get back to tell it yourself…  C: Yes, thank you  K: OK, sorry, sorry, back to touting Chad! Go ahead, tout away babe!  C: Well, everybody else – by which I mean the other two, wanted to look at the house. We knew it wasn’t ready to move into because there were several problems that had been identified during the inspection and such, but we wanted to get the keys in particular.  So, we look through the front window, and we could see the keys on the counter in the kitchen, but the door is locked. So, Kisstopher and our friend are standing around – “what should we do? Do we call a locksmith, would it be cheaper to smash a window and climb through…”  Mind you, none of us were of the size to be wanting to climb though a broken window, I just walked around to the back where there was a sliding glass door and lifted it off the hinges and opened it up and walked in.  K: I didn’t know you could do that with a sliding door  C: Yeah, it was interesting you didn’t know that  K: Well, in the ghetto we don’t have the whole portrait stained-glass sliding doors; although, in one of the group homes I lived in – it was a duplex that had been converted into a single home – both of those had sliding doors, but I never had to break in to the group home, because we never locked the door.  C: Yeah, I mean, when I was living in a trailer in somebody else’s backyard we had a big glass door.  K: (LAUGHTER)  C: Then the other time, I was living in a cabin that literally had a wood stove in it, and there was an abandoned school bus in the backyard… total big door!  K: I know you grew up poor, but these are like – when we were first together, this is a good snap chat of all the conversations we would have (LAUGHTER)  We both grew up poor, so we share a lot of the same trauma… but anyways, we’re talking about buying property so… In the United States we hired a Realtor, we saw three properties  C: We looked at 4 or 5 but a couple of them were just like immediately “NO”  K: The property that we decided on was interesting, a Native American woman and white man. Because of my Native American ancestry and the fact that you’re white, we went and did some ceremonial passing over of the property and talking about it. Because we had a shared understanding of spirituality and what this property meant and listening to her stories, she liked our ethnic makeup and they decided to sell the house to us.  C: I want to clarify something, because you said, “Native American ancestry”. A lot of times I see that now being used as some sort of blood–quantum thing, like, “I got a DNA thing and I’m 2% Native American.” Your grandmother was born on a Reservation.  K: Yes  C: The only reason you don’t have tribal connections is that she was so angry about the way she’d been treated that she refused to give anybody information on how to contact them.  K: Yes, and she didn’t have a birth certificate. My grandmother didn’t have a birth certificate because her mother died in childbirth.  My great-grandfather was freed by the Emancipation Proclamation; he was a slave, and my great- grandmother was 100% Cherokee. When she decided to marry and have a baby with a former slave, her relatives didn’t approve. When she died in childbirth, they said they should have just buried the baby along with her. My grandmother had been rejected by them, and she didn’t see any benefit to being on their rolls. She was fortunate enough that she never needed those resources, because she was adopted by the family that had owned her father.  They raised her as sort of their penance for having owned her father. They tried to do right by her, by giving her a good education and all of that, so she identified more with them than she did with the Native American side.  C: She played piano really really well, like at concert-level, she just had a ton of talent because she had been raised in this way. But she was very angry at the Cherokee side of her.  K: Yes, and she was also very angry at being the descendent of a slave.  C: Yeah  K: In hearing that story, the wife said, “I really want you guys living in our home”, also hearing the way we wanted to redesign the home. They hadn’t had the resources necessary to change the home in the way we wanted.  Her children came and visited us after we finished remodeling the house. They said it was exactly as their mother would have wanted it to be. So that to me, was a very intimate process.  We lived in the same cul-de-sac – we were the third owners of the house, and the first owners lived in the same cul-de-sac and they said the house was the best it had ever looked, much better than when they’d lived there. So, we sort of had the whole genealogy of the house – everyone approving of what we did.  C: Also, the house next door to us was purchased by people who had originally put an offer in on the house that we bought.  K: So, it really felt intimate, and really personal like we got the house because of who we were.  C: It was also really fraught with paperwork, which I think is the nature of the US, we had to go down and get Title Insurance and that kind of thing. Even though, you know, we had met all the previous owners, it was still necessary to go through the Title Insurance and make sure there were no liens and all of that.  K: What are those things?  C: what are what things?  K: The things you’re listing off, because some people might not know what Title Insurance and all of that is.  C: Title Insurance is basically insurance that nobody else actually owns the property that you’re buying. So, if you don’t have title insurance and somebody comes along and says, “Hey, you weren’t able to buy that because the person who sold it to you didn’t actually have the right to sell it to you.” Then, it’s a big problem.  So, if you go through a Real Estate agent, and Realtors are a subset of Real Estate agents; that’s a trademark thing, then they ask that you get Title Insurance. It’s not strictly required, I don’t think, if you don’t get a mortgage. It’s a good idea anyway. It protects you in case somebody else makes a claim that you didn’t have the right to purchase the property.  Liens are basically if somebody borrowed money against the property or didn’t pay taxes, there’s a legal right that sticks with the property, so you want to make sure that the property is free of liens.  K: Right, and there were some issues with the property that we didn’t inherit, that the former owners had, with taxes and such.  C: Which we knew about before we completed the sale, so  K: So, them selling the house to us, and we were able to help them alleviate all of that, and they had enough money left over to buy a farm up north.  C: They actually went to live on the Reservation with her extended family.  K: Yeah.  So, for me that felt like we were doing something good for the owners and it felt like we were doing something good for their children. We lived in the home and it was just really intimate, it was an intimate and beautiful space.  and it felt like we were doing something good for thier children and we lived in the home and it was just really intimate, it was an intimate and beautiful space.  We designed it for parties, because at the time our son was really young, I think when we bought the house, he was 6…  C: He was 5, he was 6 when we moved in, he was 5 when we bought it  K: Ok, yeah, because it took us a year… did it take about a year to rebuild it?  C: Yeah, it took about a year to rebuild it.  K: It was really nice that we were able to get him in a house while he was young and he was able to pick all of his own furnishings, pick what colors he wanted the walls to be. Every room in our house was a different color; our bedroom was turquois, his bedroom was blue, and the rest of the house was sienna and something else. We had a pink room, and a lime green room. The bathroom was mint green, so every room was a different color and it was really looked a lot nicer than I’m making it sound.  At least for us it was nice. When we sold it we had all the walls painted white. But we got to pick everything.  C: Well, we had a great contractor. So…  K: We had an amazing contractor  C: I’m going to say his name because there’s no identifying information, Chuck was our contractor. We’d interviewed a few different contractors looking for somebody to do it  One guy came, his business card was made of shaved wood, but it was really clear in talking to him that he was on drugs at the same time he was trying to sell us his services.  And I have neurological issues and things, and so… this was like, on drugs.  So, we decided not to go with him, for you know, personal reasons  K: Yeah  C: And another guy was really wanting to kind of tear down the entire house and rebuild it and make it a lot bigger and just, didn’t understand what we wanted with it…  K: Yes  C: Just wanted us to spend a lot more money than we wanted to make it a lot more house than we needed  K: Yeah  C: And then Chuck said, Chuck was about 65 or something when he bid…  And he said, “Look, I’m old, I’m not cheap, I don’t negotiate on that, but I do really good work…  K: “so, if you wanna haggle on price just go ahead on and find somebody else”  And we’re like, “No, come and talk to us” and he had so many… he sat down and listened to everything that we wanted and how we wanted to live.  He gave us some really great advice and input, like when we wanted – we had this garage space that was just huge – from the garage to the edge of the sidewalk you could fit six cars. We were able to build another room and put the garage in front of the room and still have room for a two-car garage, and two parking spaces in front of the garage.  C: Two by two, so four cars could park in front of the garage and two in the garage, and then a room behind that.  K: He gave us the solid advice – “You don’t want that room to be a step down, because it’ll always look like an added-on room. You have to raise it up to the same level.” That was really gorgeous advice that made the house so much more beautiful.  C: It was. I had always grown up with sunken rooms, so that was thing. I didn’t know it would make that much of a difference, but it really did.  K: Yeah. Then he suggested that we do sky lights, which was absolutely beautiful  C: Yeah  K: And that we did a curve, all of the edges in our kitchen were rounded, but the curve, like some people do an L-shape, we had a curve, and we had a curved cabinet above it with a lazy0suzan in it, because he connected us with really great stonework people and a really great cabinet person, that was really just a cabinet fanatic and was a person at the forefront of the cabinet-bed movement.  C: We went to the cabinet guys house and all of his furniture was actually cabinetry  K: Yes, it was really gorgeous  C: It was gorgeous!  K: Really, really gorgeous  C: It sounded a little bit extreme, when he described it, but then he was like, “let me show you…”  K: He was at the forefront of that movement, which now is really popular in small spaces, to have your bed in a cabinet.  We were really lucky with all of the craftsmen that Chuck was able to connect us with. So again, that led to the intimacy of the experience.  C: And we moved in when they weren’t done yet, so it took a year, but we moved in before the garage and the room next to the garage were finished and there was a wall sealing it off, so we’d see them every day for like 3 or 4 months. Not every day, we did not work them 7 days a week, we’d see them 5 days a week  K: Yes, and they came to our wedding  C: They came to our wedding, yep.  K: Because we bought the house before we were married.  C: Yep, all the guys who worked on it came to our wedding. Yeah, and Chuck was a former architect who decided he liked being a contractor better so he knew all this stuff so… it was a really kind of personal experience.  K: Really intimate  C: Really intimate, really great, so that was buying property in the US. A lot of paperwork, a lot of time building it, but kind of a very intimate experience.  K: Yeah  C: Buying property here in Japan was different.  K: It felt really… I don’t know the process of finding the home was so different, because we searched online, because the floor plans in Japan are pretty standard.  C: Right  K: Once you understand how to read the graph that they put online, it’s actually so much easier and quicker to just search online for the floorplan you want, how many rooms you want, all of those kinds of things. I think, this is where luck comes in, because the building was brand new.  C: Yeah, it wasn’t completed yet.  K: Yeah, so how did you find it?  C: An acquaintance of ours suggested it. They said, “Hey, I saw they’re building a building near a transportation hub.” This was one of our primary requirements, because of my not driving and we don’t have a car and all of that, so we wanted something close to public transportation, and not way out in the middle of the country.  K: Yeah, and I also wanted to be close to a grocery store.  C: Yes, we have a grocery store down the street and a subway station across the street.  K: We have two grocery stores, depending on which direction you walk.  C: Well, we’ve got 3 depending on how far you want to walk too  K: Yeah  C: So, it’s nice  K: And lots of convenience stores!  C: I think that’s everywhere in Japan. Convenience stores in Japan are like Starbucks in California.  K: Yeah (LAUGHTER)  C: I worked at one place in California, and at the intersection there was a Starbucks on each corner. There were four Starbucks at one intersection!  But yeah, we found out about this place, and in Japan the seller pays all of the costs. In the US, usually the buyer and the seller will split the costs.  K: Which costs are you talking about?  C: The Real Estate agent is paid entirely by the seller in Japan, whereas in the US the fee is usually split between the buyer and the seller. Also, the closing costs, that’s all paid by the seller in Japan, and because we bought it while it was being built, it was all paid by the builder and there was no Realtor fee.  So, Japan is starting to change a little bit, but it used to have a kind of culture of, you don’t expect a building to last longer than twenty years.  K: Which is strange because there’s a lot of old buildings  C: Yes  K: Like the building my office is in is what, like 50 years old?  C: No, it’s not that old, it was built in 1972.  K: OK  C: So, that makes it 47 this year, that’s three years away from 50, come on!  K: (LAUGHTER)  It’s still standing and functioning. I wouldn’t want to live in it, because… the reason I wouldn’t want to live in it is that you can only run one or two aircons at a time, and it has three rooms.  C: Aircons are air conditioners  K: Yes, air conditioners and heating units. You can only run two at a time, and I think you can only run one if you want to cook rice.  C: Right  K: So you can’t run two heating systems or cooling systems plus have a refrigerator plus cook rice. So, to me, I think the building needs to be rewired.  C: Probably. But if they rewire it, I think they’d have to bring it to current earthquake standards.  K: Yeah, because it’s seriously not up to code.  C: Right. Japan has a lot of earthquakes, so the earthquake code here is really stringent. So, new buildings, like the building that we’re in now, has some kind of device… it doesn’t have a pendulum like the skyscrapers, it wobbles a lot in earthquakes.  K: And on windy days  C: And on windy days, yes, it will start to sway.  K: It has a gyrating foundation, there’s springs in the foundation  C: Yeah, so that’s different. But this is the first time I’ve ever lived in a building this tall. I don’t know about you.  K: Me too  C: Yeah?  K: Yeah, me too. We just learned something new about each other!  C: Interesting  K: I’ve never lived in an apartment building that was higher than two stories.  C: Interesting. I’m trying to think if I did…  K: My dad lived in a high-rise, but I didn’t live with him at the time and so, I guess, because was it three stories?  C: It was three stories when we lived together  K: Yes, that’s the highest for me, three stories. In California, at least in Santa Clara county, it really is uncommon to build buildings higher than three stories because they usually build them wide over lots of land rather than  C: Urban sprawl… In Japan you have a lot of concentration around train stations, so you can kind of, if you like to the map where the prices are different colors, a heat map/price map of colors, you can identify where the train stations are by the prices of the buildings.  K: So, square-footage-wise, and cost-wise, because I don’t want to say how much our house is exactly, but, did the house in the US cost less per square-foot than the house here?  C: Square-foot-wise, including the renovations that we made to it, the house in the US was double what we paid for this, and it was two-and-a-half times the size. So, if we doubled our place, we’d have to add another half again to make it the same size as the one in the US.  So, yes, this place is more expensive on an area-basis  K: Yeah  C: But cheaper overall because it’s so much smaller  K: It doesn’t have any amenities either. It has parking and that’s it.  I guess there’s a little table in the lobby, so technically… and there’s a maintenance staff that cleans the building, but there’s no amenities, like there’s no pool or any of that stuff.  C: I mean, we live down the street from the Ward gym, so if we want to go swimming or whatever, we can. There’s a public pool  K: But let’s be real, we’re not doing none of that (LAUGHTER)  C: (LAUGHTER) Well, Rasta’s gone a few times and played volleyball or gone swimming and such  K: No, Rasta uses it, but we don’t.  So, for me, I think I feel like the floorplan that we made… Here’s something I find similar about both the house and where we live now. I absolutely hate having bedrooms at the front of the house, and both places have bedrooms at the front of the house.  This drives me bananas because you can’t ever open your bedroom window, or your bedroom window curtains, not that I do, because of my Lupus and Porphyria, but… it’s just baffling, like, why would they put our room right next to our front door?  C: But, in the US, we had a situation where you know, we had the house and then the next street over the house on that street our backyards faced each other, when we put up a fence, well within regulation, you could only have a 6-ft. fence…  K: And with all of the four houses that touched the fence besides our owns permission…  C: Yes, everybody’s permission, but the neighbors, our backyard neighbors, complained that they could no longer watch us.  K: Yes! (LAUGHTER) Because we had the lattice on top of the fence, and so they were unhappy with the lattice.  C: Yes, but they were also unhappy when we got curtains, so I don’t know… your bedroom thing has never made sense to me in a visceral way, but I know you have it  K: Yes, and so, with this one because we really love an open floorplan, the house in the US had an open floorplan and this place is an open floorplan. It could be a four bedroom, but instead of making it a four bedroom we made it a living room, dining room and kitchen. There’s a wall that we got, a sliding partition rather than a solid wall that’s fixed, so we have the living room which goes straight into the dining room. That’s all open space and you can see the kitchen and we currently have our bedroom in the living room.  C: Because, why not?  K: Thank you!  C: It’s called the “Living Room” for a reason  K: Yeah, because we’re living in it! What!  What’s known as that tatami room in Japan, there’s these masks that are made out of woven grass that are called tatami’s and most places in Japan have one room where those masks are in it and it’s called the tatami room because they function as a tea room. At least historically they function as a tea room and where you would entertain guests and that sort of thing.  Our tatami room is actually your office…  C: Yes  K: and our pantry, we use our futon closet… in Japan there are closets that have sliding doors on them, if you open the sliding door it has one shelf so that you can fold up your futon and put it in there during the day  C: They are really deep, they’re like four-and-a-half feet deep  K: And we use that for our pantry where we store all our canned goods, because the kitchen counter, the cabinet space in the kitchen is ridiculous. We have plenty of cabinets, they’re just really shallow  C: Yes, they’re really shallow. A large plate does not fit in the cabinet  K: Yeah, so, I’m not upset with our cabinet space, because we don’t have a lot of dishes, but I do like to eat and store lots of pasta and lots of canned foods. I like to keep so much food in the house that we could whip up a Thanksgiving dinner just based on what’s in the house.  C: Just don’t expect turkey  K: Yes, because that’s what we did one year. We were like, “Ok, let’s just use all this stuff!”  I really like canned goods and pasta and rice and all that, so we use the tatami room as our pantry. Before we did that, we used some of our bathroom cabinetry as our pantry and I didn’t like that as much.  C: Yeah, our linen closet we used  K: We don’t have a lot of linens  C: No, we don’t  K: That’s something that has changed, in the US we had tons of linen, and here I think we have like a winter set and a summer set and that’s it  C: Yes  K: Now that cabinetry is basically empty, then we use our old room that was our room for clothing storage – it’s filled with nothing but clothes and some workout equipment. Then room that used to be Rasta’s room is now your nap room.  C: Yes  K: The nap room and reading room  C: Yes, if I need to get away for sensory issues, or whatever  K: Yeah and also it can be perfectly climate controlled for you in case I’m wanting a different temperature in the house or you’re needing to cool down or adjust or what have you  C: Yes, central air conditioning is not popular in Japan. It’s mostly split units so each room is heated on its own. That makes my office sometimes a little bit uncomfortable because it doesn’t have any walls that connect to the outside, so three of the walls connect to the inside and one wall connects to our neighbor so there’s no way to put an air conditioning unit in that room.  K: Yeah  C: Usually a fan can take care of that during the summer and a blanket can take care of that in the winter.  K: Yeah. We had a Real Estate agent for both purchases. We found our Real Estate agent in the US by just driving to a strip mall. You had driven past a strip mall and seen a Real Estate agent and we just walked in.  C: Well, it’s actually different than that, because in Japan Real Estate agents compete for listings, but multiple agencies might have it listed, which in the US, you have the multiple listings service. But, in the US, our Real Estate agent negotiated with the seller’s re agent.  K: Yes  C: In Japan, you’re always only dealing with the seller’s Real Estate agent, and so when we bought this place, we actually were just dealing with the agent for the builder. They had one model unit completed, so to finish the sale, we actually came to the building and brought the down payment in cash and brought the income, or hanko – the stamp that has to be registered  K: Yeah, because you don’t sign, you stamp things in Japan, you don’t sign them.  C: Yes, so we had a stamp and got it registered at the Ward office, basically City Hall, and then, when we stamp that they had to put revenue stamps in the contract which, I forget how much they were then, but revenue stamps can range from one dollar to a thousand dollars or more. They cost, usually if we get a visa, it’s 8000 yen, which is right now about $75 dollars.  They said, “We’re not sure we can sell this to you because you’re foreign.” I had actually prepared for that, and had printouts of the relevant laws, saying there’s no restriction on selling to foreigners in Japan  K: Yes  C: So, it’s perfectly legal to be foreign and own property. It’s really hard to get a mortgage if you’re foreign and are not a permanent resident  K: Yes, and don’t have collateral.  C: Right. We took the money from selling the house in California, and used that to buy this place. So that wasn’t an issue.  Then they said, ‘well, there are restrictions associated with being in this building, we want to be sure it’s ok with that. You’re not allowed to have pets bigger than you can carry.”  K: Yeah (LAUGHTER)  C: And I said, “Well, I’m really strong and I’d like to have a miniature elephant.” They actually had a discussion, when it became clear that they were taking me seriously, I had to say “I’m sorry, that was a joke”…  K: They were trying to figure if he could carry it, and if it wouldn’t grow any bigger than he could carry…  C: Right, so a lot of people in our building have dogs or cats, but they’re all really small. I haven’t seen any large dogs in the building. Even the standard is “Can you carry it”  K: One of the buildings that we looked at had a dog-washing station, and I thought that was cool  C: Well, the building we’re in now has one too  K: Where does it have a dog-washing station?  C: It’s between the stairwell and the locked door that leads in from the parking area.  K: Really?  C: Yes  K: Oh, I take it back, I guess there ARE amenities! (LAUGHTER) We obviously don’t have any pets, because I am a terrible, terrible pet owner, and you’re a terrible pet owner, so if we had one person who would be willing to be responsible for the pet, I think we would have an animal.  C: I’ve never owned a pet. My family when I was growing up had a dog and hamsters, but they were never my responsibility and I never wanted them. I had really, really severe asthma, well, I know now that I would have been fine with a pet, but the doctors at the time said “No indoor pets”. So, my brother had a hamster, which I guess didn’t count for some reason, but we always had an outdoor dog.  K: Hmmm. So, growing up, I had at one time, a boa constrictor, a bunch of ducks, some rabbits, cats and two dogs. So, I don’t remember how many ducks I had, because we had two ducks and then a bunch of little ducklings, and we had some rabbits, I think only two rabbits at the time, one boa constrictor, and I think three cats and two dogs, and then later on in life, we had seven cats and one dog. For me, most of my life, anytime I lived with my mother I had pets, and then when I went into foster care, most foster homes had some sort of animal, like a dog or something. Then in the group homes there weren’t any pets, and then when I moved out and lived on my own, I didn’t have any pets, and then I had one relationship that lasted for five years and we had a cat.  C: Yeah  K: I had three cats at the time, but at no point in time was I ever responsible for any of the animals.  C: I guess that I lived in a bunch of different people’s hoses, with their permission, but I kind of fostered out informally through the church, and the place I usually stayed had three cats, and then I briefly lived with somebody who had four ferrets. I don’t recommend living with ferrets.  K: I once had a fish, well, my girlfriend at the time had a fish. So, I feel like everybody, other people I lived with had animals and I benefited from those animals. I only ever had one pet that I considered my own and that was a cat, but I wasn’t responsible for the litter or any of that, because I was really young at the time. So, I wasn’t into actually caring for animals, I like loving on animals, and petting them and enjoying them, but I don’t like changing litter boxes or walking a dog or any of that.  C: It’s interesting looking at that thinking about how much of our life is structured around having it be possible for there to be days where neither of us can function. Like things from not owning a pet to living near public transport to having a pantry full of things that could be kind of instant food.  K: Yeah, that’s… to me, I felt like both times the buying both places were really straight forward. I think we were fortunate in that we really organized ourselves before and we were also fortunate that we had the resources, and I think having the resources made it fairly stress-free both times.  C: Yeah it did, and the laws too, if we’re in a different country, I know Singapore doesn’t allow foreigners to own property, and Thailand…  K: Just one of the reasons why we don’t live in Singapore  C: In Thailand, you can’t own more than half of the property  K: And in Mexico, foreigners can’t own property  C: Yeah, and I know that Japan is not completely standard, but you can buy property as a foreigner here, and Nagoya doesn’t have the kind of Real Estate bubbles that Tokyo goes through, so the price of our apartment, estimated price has been pretty much constant for the last 10 years.  K: That was buying property in the US… I feel more like the kind of property we owned in the US and the kind of property that we owned…  C: Well, we also had some fun stories  K: Yes, so thank you for tuning in and listening to this weeks’ ramble!  C: Come back again to hear more pointless stories and digressions. K: Bye. C: Bye bye.

K: So lately I’ve been thinking about our hobbies, and I think that’s because we recorded the episode of how we make our money, and so for me it’s like how we make our money and how we spend our money. C: That’s what I thought when you said how we make our money. (K laughs) How we spend our money. We don’t spend a lot of money on hobbies. K: No, I don’t think either, but you know it feels kind of decadent. Like, our main hobby feels super, super decadent to me. And, our main hobby is puzzle-building. And the reason it feels decadent to me is because we have like seven framed puzzles mounted and stacked against our wall. C: I think maybe the frames were decadent. K: Yeah, the frames were. C: Because we don’t have enough wall space to put up all of the puzzles we’ve done, so we’ve dismantling them after we’ve finished them and giving them away. K: Yeah, so, and it’s been challenging to give them away. C: It has been. K: I thought people would be snapping up, because they’re gently used, they’ve only been put together once and we’re verifying that all the pieces are there and they’re like really nice, high-end puzzles. C: Well, it’s interesting to me how much of a luxury people think being able to put together a puzzle is. K: Well in Japan it is a luxury because for us our entire dining room table is dedicated to puzzle building. C: You mean our entire puzzle table sometimes is used for eating. K: (laughing) This is true. Okay, I’m gonna come clean. I don’t eat at the table. I eat in bed. C: What? K: Yeah, I’m just gonna own that. Because it’s where I like to eat. I like to eat in bed. Especially in the winter time because my electric blanket is there, and it keeps me so warm and even though our apartment has really great insulation, I really do miss central heating and cooling. C: Yes. But we haven’t cooked in bed. (K laughs) Because we have the little portable electric grill. We could just, you know, bring it out here and K: That would be so dangerous! That would be so dangerous! But I have done food prep in bed. On that I’ve been like “Babe, can you bring me the cutting board and ingredients,” and I have chopped food in bed. C: Bring me a knife and some fruit! K: (laughs) Yes. C: Is this fun or terrifying? I don’t know yet. K: But eating and cooking in bed is not my hobby. It’s not a hobby of ours. C: Okay. K: So back on track, so puzzle-building was something that we tried to do in the United States. C: Yes. K: But, your brother sent us a puzzle that had no edges? C: No, it had edges. What it had was, all of the pieces were hexagonal. All of the pieces were exactly the same shape. K: Yeah, and I wasn’t into that at all. C: Yeah, and I think it was like a picture of a bowl full of kiwi. So all of the pieces were the same shape, and all of them had the same thing in the picture. K: Just about. And so that was not fun at all. C: No. We don’t do challenge puzzles like that. We don’t do monochromatic puzzles. We like colorful pictures. We like to have an easy time of it. K: Yeah, because I think our hardest puzzle to date was the Disney puzzle with the glitter. And that was a mini 10,000 piece. C: 1,000 K: Mini 1,000 piece. Was it only 1,000 pieces? C: It was only 1,000. We haven’t done any bigger than 1,000. I’ve been trying to get you to bump to the 2,000. K: (laughing) They take up too much space. C: They do. With a 1,000 we can dedicate half the table to sorted pieces and half the table to the assembled puzzle. But with 2,000 we’d have to be more careful. We’d need trays or something. K: Yeah, and I’m not into that. I’m not into that. So, that puzzle was so difficult because it was micro and the pieces were so tiny and the first time we did it I had to shake it off. I was like “Nope, I can’t do it.” And then, I think because I didn’t understand how to sort it. C: Right. K: And so the sorting that we did on it, it wasn’t sorted properly. And the second time when we sorted it by scene and did like a really premium sort, it was so much easier to do. C: Yeah, so those puzzles are by Tenyo and they advertise themselves as the world’s smallest jigsaw puzzles. So 1,000 pieces is the size of an A3 piece of paper or two A4, if you don’t know how big A3 is. K: Yeah, so that one was really really hard and it took us two tries to do it, and that was because of me. You were willing to sit through it. So I find most of the mini puzzles have been really challenging. Like the Winnie the Pooh with the clouds. C: Right. K: And, uh, the grass scene. Because I did the grass scene in like the first day we had the puzzle after we sorted it. And then it took us like two or three days to do the clouds. And the sky pieces. That was really, really challenging. C: Well, I think the smaller the puzzles, the bigger the difference can be between two pieces before you notice it. K: Yeah, I think so. C: And the Tenyo cut is really good because they don’t chop off the edges, but with some of the other puzzle companies that we’ve used, the edge gets kind of pressed down by the die so that the pieces don’t always match up. Sometimes there’s a valley between the pieces as part of the coloration so on our website we have some reviews of puzzles and things and talk about these different issues. We like puzzling. K: TheMusicksInJapan.com, our website, check it out. C: So what do you like about puzzling? K: So for me what I enjoy most about puzzling is that it lowers my blood pressure. (C laughs) Like, legit. C: No, I know it’s legit. K: It lowers my blood pressure. It lowers my heart rate. And, for me, it’s a meditation. And I really struggle with silent just-sit-on-the-cushion-and-meditate type of meditating, and so I find that active meditation is much healthier for me and is easier for me. I can’t… just, my monkey mind is all over the place and I’m always thinking and racing. Sitting down to do a sort, I really am just thinking about “What color is this piece? What shade of green is this? What shade of brown is that?” and putting it in the correct spot. And then in putting it together I really am just focused on putting that piece of the puzzle. And I find that I usually have a song that I think in my head while I’m doing it, so it really just shuts my brain down. C: Yeah, we have basically three things on the table most times we’re doing puzzles. We have the puzzle. K: Yes. C: We have the control for the air conditioner and heater. K: (laughing) Yes. C: And we have the sphygmomanometer. K: Yes. C: So when you say “lower your blood pressure”, you mean you’ve taken your blood pressure, started puzzling, taken your blood pressure to see. K: Yes. And so one of the reasons that I do that is because I’m always looking for things that are anti-stress. And if something can lower my blood pressure and heart rate, I feel like I can check that off as actually an anti-stress activity. C: Well, and too I think that your blood pressure and your heart rate are both early indicators of problems with either your porphyria or lupus. K: Yes. C: Like you’re having a flare and so we can adjust appropriately. So I think they’re like the first signs that are not painful. K: Yes. And so I find that when we puzzle, because like this past week I have been too busy to get the sort out on our puzzle, to get the sort done, and I have found that my stress and my mood hasn’t been as good as it is when we puzzle. And so I think also it’s time sitting across from you. C: Yeah. Because our sessions can be from five minutes. Sometimes we’ll just sit down and it’ll be like “Okay, we’re gonna do two pieces”. K: Yeah. C: Or we’re going to sort ten pieces. And sometimes we’ll sit the entire day and just chit-chat while we puzzle. Or put on some music and listen to it together or K: Yeah. And so it’s helpful that our music tastes are very similar. C: Yes. K: And so for me I just really like the time with you and it really makes me feel like when we’re doing it together like we’re the only two people in the world. C: We are. (K laughs) When we’re doing it together. K: Yeah. And it feels just… I feel so connected to you. And when we finish the puzzle, I feel so self-satisfied. I feel like I really did something. C: Well I think for me when I finish a puzzle it feels very luxurious. Like, we must have a luxury life to be able to sit down and do a puzzle. K: Yeah, I feel that way too. So it really has, since we started doing puzzles, it’s really made me feel life we’ve upgraded our lives. Like it’s this huge upgrade. We’re like these totally chill luxuriating people that just do puzzles because we’re fancy. C: Right. And we can be super fancy. Usually we’re not. Usually we’re like, $15, that’s a great price for a puzzle. But sometimes we’re super fancy. We’re like “Is this one worth $45?” K: Yeah, but we have to really think about it. And so puzzling is one of our hobbies. I think it’s our main hobby. And C: I think it’s our main joint hobby. K: Yeah, it’s our main joint hobby. And I feel like we usually have two or three puzzles on deck, like, that we can choose from. C: Yes. K: And then when we get down to the last of that, because I think we buy it in three or four C: Yeah, we usually buy in batches of four. K: Yeah, and then we pick between those and do them. And go through them. And I think when we start the sort of the last puzzle in that grouping we sit down and order more. C: Yes, we do. K: Yeah, do we do about one puzzle a week. C: Yeah, on average. K: There are some puzzles that have taken a little bit longer, but right now we’re working through our backlog of puzzles, putting them onto the website. If you want to see all of the puzzles we’ve done, most of them are on Instagram, we don’t really post to Instagram. C: About half of them are on Instagram. K: Yeah. So, we’re themusicksinjapan on Instagram, even though we’re not active on Instagram anymore. C: Yeah. (K laughs) Because that is much less fun as a hobby than puzzling. K: Yeah, it was. And so we’re going to talk about social media on a different day. But I do feel like a major hobby of yours is Twitter. C: Yes. Twitter is a major hobby of mine. So I use Twitter to keep in touch with other writers I’ve met at conferences and things and to just kind of yammer at the public in general. To make bad puns. K: And good ones. C: And good ones. I do comment on grammar issues, when people ask. So I don’t correct other people’s grammar, but if they say something like “This sentence is passive.” I’m like, “Actually, what it is, is it’s a sentence with a copula.” K: Yeah. And so, for me, having lupus and porphyria, like right now I’m having a rather severe lupus flare, and what that means is that every single joint in my body hurts. And so that’s every vertebrae in my back, every joint in my hands and feet, my shoulders and knees, like every single joint is inflamed and swollen, and so even getting dressed hurts. C: Yep. K: Having hobbies that are stationary, for me, allows me to get up and go over to the table and sit in a comfy chair and wrap myself up in my electric blanket and do a couple of pieces on a puzzle until sitting isn’t comfortable anymore, and getting that up and down, where I’m not just stuck in bed is really really nice for me. So I don’t know how puzzling interacts with your disabilities. I haven’t asked you. How does it interact with your disabilities? Because I know you’ve got arthritis, which is one you don’t really talk about a lot. C: Yeah, I mean, that one probably affects me the most day-to-day, just because it’s constant, so … the epilepsy is always a concern, but I have ankylosing spondylitis, which is not technically arthritis because it’s not inflammatory, so you can… NSAIDs doesn’t work. But, for me that mostly means I have to keep my back really straight, so I need to be either sitting up straight or lying down flat. So puzzling can be challenging sometimes if I’m having to bend over a lot, a lot of tension in my spine is painful. But usually once we’ve got it sorted, then just looking over the pieces and placing things is a lot easier, so I think that’s why you end up doing a lot of the sorts when we do them. K: Yeah. Because I think the time at the table gets to be too much. And the sorting isn’t fun for you,  you don’t really enjoy it. C: No. And I enjoy doing the solid sections, like if there’s a blue sky, you know that means I’m going to tackle the sky. K: Yeah, it’s a tradeoff. I don’t feel up under because I’m doing… because I’m the one who’s mostly responsible for the sort. C: Well, that’s a relief. (K laughs) K: It’s not that deep! And you do help. C: It’s a hobby, folks. K: Yeah. C: We do it how we like it. K: And so I find doing puzzles to be really rewarding emotionally and spiritually and cognitively and just on every level. It just completely works for me. C: Yeah, it does for me, too. And we talked about it a little over a decade ago, about doing it but we had, you know, our son was a teenager or pre-teen at the time and had friends over all the time and if anybody comes near the table, I’m like “Nope! Nope! They stole a piece!” K: (laughing) No bueno! No bueno! Abort! Abort! C: Yeah. K: Please back away from the table! C: There’s going to be a piece missing. K: Yeah. C: You know what would be interesting would be to have a program for like the iPad or whatever that would count the number of pieces on the table. You just take a picture, it tells you how many puzzle pieces are there. I would use that so often. I would be like “Are they still all there?” Snap a photo. Still a thousand? Still a thousand? K: Yeah, so all you app enthusiasts, you know, if you make the puzzle app… C: Well, there is a market for that. I don’t pay any money for most apps, and I don’t buy in-app purchases, but there is a market for it. I would be like “this is a pretty good app” if you have this particular thing. K: Yes. And so that was the one thing on Instagram that I honestly enjoyed was getting to know other puzzlers. And so that part was fun. So aside from puzzling, another big hobby for me, and this is a big ticket hobby because of the way I like to do it is travel. C: Yes. K: I love to travel. But, and don’t send hate for this. Like really, it’s not that serious, okay, this is me and my life choices, not judging you and yours, please don’t judge me and mine, but if I fly, I only fly business. So I have flown first class, business class, economy plus, and economy. C: Not all on the same trip. K: And for me the reason that I don’t fly economy is because of the lupus. Because as soon as I get on a plane, I am in a lupus flare. And I am in a porphyria attack because I have so many reactions to perfumes, detergents, and cramped spaces. So the tightness of it, the stress of it, like everything about is… like flying is a checklist for what will trigger a lupus or porphyria attack. And I’m usually in extended sunlight because every place thinks that having C: the windows open K: Yeah C: let’s the sun shine directly on you without the benefit of the atmosphere. K: Yes. And so, for me, I am exposed to a lot of porphyrogenics and a lot of things my lupus reacts to. So after being all of that, being completely inflamed, sitting inside one of the coach seats I run a higher risk of blood clots and deep vein thrombosis. That’s like, “Okay, flying coach/economy is dangerous for my health.” So then doing coach plus doesn’t get me away from all of that. C: Right. K: Flying business does, because usually business is the least occupied, at least on our last trip to Spain, we had a complete row to ourselves. There was actually nobody else in our section of the plane. It was just the two of us. Because everybody is either in first or coach. And first class, that’s just more than I need. I just need to be able to lay down and be prone for a portion of the flight. And now most business class flights do have that complete lie-down bed. So what that means is that we don’t travel often outside of Japan. Maybe once a year. And so for the entire year I’m saving up for that business-class flight. C: Well, we’re talking international business here, because domestic business is not always the same. Sometimes domestic business is just a slightly bigger seat. Like, when we went to Spain, which was for a conference, not for fun K: Yeah C: When we flew from Madrid to Amsterdam, on FinnAir, I think… K: It was a coach seat. C: It was a coach seat with a little curtain behind it. We don’t care about curtains. K: Yeah, no no. So, for me that completely wasn’t worth it. But if there is a wider seat and more legroom, it is worth it for me. Because my joints, my knees especially, get blown out so easily, and so I look at, okay… we could save the money on the flight, but then we need to add days that we’re there, so I can have days for recovery, and it impacts my recovery time on the other side, returning. So we did a cost analysis looking at hotel room and all of that and it works out to be the same. Like, we could take a five-day trip and travel business, or we can fly coach, but then we have to take a ten-day trip, and I have to have three days upon return before I have to go back to work, just so I can get my joints lubricating properly and work through and get all of my medication on board. C: Yes, so you miss a lot of work, in addition to the additional cost of the hotel. K: Yeah. C: But we also travel domestically, too. Because domestically is a lot easier. K: Yes, but then, traveling on trains, I do travel green-sha, which is first class, which makes it more expensive on the Shinkansen. C: A little bit. So the difference between regular fare and green-sha on the Shinkansen is $40. So I know for some of our listeners that’s a lot of money, but for us that’s not a lot of money. K: I think $40, $40 is a significant amount of money to me. C: It is to me, too, but we plan our trips, so we try to take at least one a year. That’s our goal is “Can we take one trip per year?” K: Yes. C: And we don’t buy a lot of clothes, we don’t eat out a lot—we almost never eat out—so there’s a lot of things that we don’t do that just, you know, we spend it on travel instead. K: Yeah. And so for me it really is about planning and prioritizing. And so the not eating out saves us skads and skads of money. And when we compare our food bill, what we spend on food a month, compared to our son, who is one person, spends on food a month, we spend a considerable amount less than he does. C: Yes. K: He spends a lot of money on food because he likes to eat out 2 or 3 times a week. And the price of… when he goes to eat out two or three times a week, sometimes in those choices that’s a week’s worth of groceries for us in the amount of money that he’s spending eating out. So the fact that we don’t saves us money. And I also think the fact that we don’t own a care saves us money, because we’re not paying gas or any of that. C: Yeah yeah K: And my office is a ten-minute bike ride away from the house. So there are a lot of other choices that we’re making. We might own a car later on. I don’t know, that’s up in the air. We’re still thinking about that. I’m thinking about that. But for me it’s about the intersection of travel and disability. C: Yes. K: And, so when we’re thinking about travel, we have to be careful when people are talking about their travel… for me, to not judge, because everybody is moving through the world the best way that they can. And so I never harsh anybody’s mellow for their travel choices because I don’t live their life and I don’t know why those choices are there. So for someone who has social anxiety, traveling coach, having all of those people pressed against them may trigger an anxiety attack and anxiety feels like dying, it’s hell on earth to be in an anxiety attack. So for me, I would tell them, yeah, totally the green-sha is worth it. Because in Japan there’s reserved and non-reserved and then green-sha, those are the three classes. And so even with a reserved ticket sometimes you might be stick next to somebody who has a child on their lap and that might be too much for someone to tolerate. And so for me personally, that is too much to tolerate when I travel. In addition to like the leg space. I like to have a certain guarantee that things will be a certain way. C: Yeah. Well, and I know for me because I’m fat and have joint problems the larger seat is helpful in coming back less pained. K: I think you’re luxurious, baby. C: Thank you, yes. K: I love all of what you’re rocking. C: Yes, I’m a deep leather couch. K: (laughing) I didn’t call you a deep leather couch. C: I know you wouldn’t because you’re kind. K: Well, no, I’m not into deep leather couches. C: Oh, okay. Okay, I see what you’re saying. K: You’re like a full day at the spa with all of the treatments. C: But I used to go to Tokyo once a month. K: (laughs) Moving on? C: Moving on. Not for hobby, for work, and part of the agreement with the company was that they would pay for green-sha because it would allow me to arrive at work able to work, rather than needing to recover, so. I think for us, that kind of travel, we’re not trying to be pampered we’re trying to arrive in relatively… good condition. K: Yep. So, I like to take two trips a year. I like to take one trip in the summer and then one trip over the holiday season or in the spring. I don’t know, just some other random time, and usually I do a short trip and a longer trip. And a short trip can be like two or three days or even a day trip. And a longer trip can be anywhere from a week to two weeks. And that keeps me mentally healthy, happy, and whole. And I also, because of my PTSD, I have a high need to be somewhere other than where I am sometimes. And so mentally knowing that I’m not trapped is super super important for me. And the hobby of traveling lets me know okay, I can leave where I’m at. I’m not stuck here, and so being able to keep my wheels on my cart requires that I leave and come back. And so in the leaving, I get to see someplace else and think about whether or not I’d rather be there than here, and in the coming home I’m always so happy to be home after a trip. I really love being home after a trip. So I think that managing my mental health as well as my physical health, travel plays a big part in that for me. C: I think so. And then we have kind of ordinary hobbies, too. I think travel is a usual hobby for a certain… K: For some people who like to travel. C: For some people who like to travel. I think puzzling is a hobby obviously for a lot of people. There are many companies that just sell puzzles. K: Yep. C: And then, one of your hobbies is TV. K: Yep, love television. I love TV. I love YouTube. C: Yep. K: Love love love YouTube. I watch YouTube every single day. Every single day. C: So and I kind of don’t get it. (K laughs) And no amount of explanation is going to make me get it because with my epilepsy I have to be sure things are safe before I watch them, so I like the TV shows that we watch together, which we usually have one or two shows that we’re watching together at any particular time. K: Yes. C: And so, I might watch two hours of television a week if we’ve got two shows at that time. K: Yeah, and I think I probably average about 3 hours of television a day. And so, for me, I’m not ashamed of that. I love that I enjoy TV. And I don’t understand the stigma associated with TV or watching YouTube videos. And I watch like a whole myriad. Like, I watch everything from drama channels to documentaries to short films. And I don’t think that any one of those are more or less. They’re all value added to my life, because they’re entertaining. This is not what I’m doing for education. This is not what I’m doing for work. Although some people watch YouTube for work, and hey, crack on, but like the stigma and the snobbiness about it, like “I don’t watch TV” as a point of pride. Why are you proud of that, like? (C laughs) I don’t get it. Why is that giving anyone pride. Like, “I don’t own a television.” Well, I don’t own a television either. I own a computer that I watch television on. C: Well, and when we met, I didn’t own a TV. And I told you, “I don’t own a TV.” And you told me, “Is that something you’re proud of?” Like no, I just don’t watch TV. It’s something I don’t do, but I have a computer. And I write books. So why isn’t your hobby reading books? K: So right now, the reason my hobby isn’t reading books is because I’m earning my PhD. C: Oh, that’s right, you are reading books. (K laughs) K: No, I’m not reading books. I’m reading articles. Tons and tons of articles. And I’m not just reading articles, I am Reading articles. I read them and then re-read them. So, most of the articles that I have—I have over 75 articles in my literature review section, that I am trying to prune down. Prune down and see if they’re really necessary. I have read over 100 articles for my dissertation. So I’ve pruned it down from over 100 to 75 and I need to prune it down further to make sure those are the primo, and then I have to go through and weed out everything that doesn’t make it in the 5-year cap. It’s like a whole thing, man. C: And then you’ve gotta expand again (K laughs) … I’m familiar with the process. K: Yes, as someone who has earned his PhD. C: Yes. But what I meant… it was more a joke. I don’t think that reading is any more “noble” a hobby than, let’s say, watching TV. K: Because I have read some trash novels. I love reading trashy novels. Love love love reading trashing novels. And, for me, I love pop-bubblegum novels, I like YA novels, I like science fiction. I like a whole genre. The one genre that I don’t get into too much is fantasy because it has just too many made-up words. C: You read a lot of fantasy that you don’t realize is fantasy. You don’t like high fantasy. K: Yes. That’s true. And right now, because you’re a writer and our son Rasta is a writer, I’m reading those books. (laughs) C: I don’t write high fantasy. K: No, they’re not high fantasy. I’m saying those are the books that I’m reading. C: Oh, yes, yes, exactly. K: So I’m reading them over, and over, and over again, so all of my time for reading books I’m reading what my men are writing. C: Your favorite books in the whole world. K: Yes, and they are the best books. Everyone should read them. C: So as far as my hobbies, I do read, so I- K: Yeah, you read a lot. C: I read a lot, but I also play video games. So I’m limited in what I play by which games have effects that are troublesome for me. I really appreciate the game publishers who make that information obvious, and really have harsh words for the game publishers who aim to suppress that information. K: Yeah. Uncool, man. C: Very uncool. And I also only do single player games, because I don’t know when I might disappear from my game. So I don’t like games where a moment of inattention can cost you hours of work, because if I have a seizure while I’m playing a video game, it’s not usually a big deal because, again, I don’t typically have tonic-clonic, or grand mal or generalized seizures, whatever you want to call the really dramatic, big dramatic seizures, but I might not be responsive to whatever’s happening in my video game for a minute or two. If that caused me to lose hours of work, that’s enormously frustrating. If it just means I’ve got to try a level again or I’ve got to do whatever again, that’s not a big deal to me, so I’m just whatever about that. And I think those are my two main hobbies. K: I also like to play video games, but I’ve only found one video game that I really like, well, there were two, but here’s the thing. So I like Pokemon and I like the game Castlevania. The Castlevania was fun if you could play it and I could tell you what to do. C: Yeah, I don’t remember which one it was. It was on Xbox. It was Castlevania, maybe Symphony of the Night. It was the one where you had to collect different materials, and build the different weapons and the pumpkins and things. It was back in 2000 or so. But yeah, you- K: Yeah, and they had the battle tower and all of that, so you could level up the pumpkins and … C: Yeah, you liked to tell me what to do in the video game while I played. K: Yeah. So I feel that my video game play is limited by the fact that you do not enjoy being bossed around while you play. Go figure. You don’t want to be told what to do in your gameplay. Completely not fun. So, for me, if you would be willing to work the controls, I would play a lot more video games. C: Yeah. K: Yeah, I would. Because your dexterity and knowledge, and you can pick up the, I want to call it a joystick, but it’s not a joystick. Controller, there you go. You can pick up that controller for any game and get in there and do it, and be successful. C: Yeah. K: I can’t. C: That’s through careful selection of games, it’s not actually because I’m good at them. K: And so, for me, with Pokemon, right now I’m still finishing up the Omega versions and X and Y, because I do get a little bit obsessed with trying to catch them all. C: Well, it’s right in the slogan, you’ve got to catch them all. K: It is. And so- C: And we’ve been playing Pokemon since Red and Blue. K: Yeah. And so I have to be … So the very first. C: Yeah, Red and Blue. K: Yeah. So, for me, I have to admit that not being able to get a Celebi kind of like … C: Mm, yeah, those premium ones that you’ve got to be in an event or something. K: Yeah, because if you don’t get right on the game … So then I was like, “Okay, I’m going to do Sun and Moon, so that I can be right there at the beginning and make it to all the events,” but on the very first day of the event, they were gone in all of Japan. C: Yeah. K: So I’m like, “Dude, I can’t do that.” And I’m not going to hack the game. I’m not that level of player. C: Well, because then is not something you’ve done. K: Yeah. But, for me, it’s like no, it’s not hack the game and get them all, it’s catch them all, and so if you’re not going to make everything catchable, then that’s not cool. You should not have Pokemon available in any particular game that cannot be caught in that game. C: Okay, you hear us Namco? Get right. K: Yeah, they do need to get right, thank you. High five on that. Way to get my back. I feel seen, heard and validated, thank you. C: I will write them a letter. K: Thank you. So with X and Y, I’m still playing that because I haven’t caught the legendaries yet, and to catch the legendaries you have to see them out in the wild 10 or 15 times and then go some place specific, and I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve seen out in the wild, so that’s like a whole conundrum now. C: Well, so, and to be clear, it’s not that X and Y are new or that Sun and Moon are new, they’ve been out for years. K: But I haven’t caught the legendary, that’s what I’m saying. C: Right, right. And I tend to pick video games the same way. I tend to not pick up a new video game. If something just comes out, I tend to wait a year. Like I bought Monster Hunter World, which I really like, more than a year after it was released. K: Yeah, and so, for me, I have the … So I don’t have Sun and Moon one, I have like … I forget what it’s called. Omega Sun and Moon? I don’t know, the second version of Sun and Moon, and I have the games, I got them right after they came out, because I was on a Pokemon game playing spree, but then I was like, “Okay, I still have a couple of things left to do in X and Y and in Omega Ruby, those two.” So because of the Battle Maison in X and Y, it’s so easy now to level up Pokemon that I’m still just leveling them all up, because I also have this obsession of having everything level 50 or higher, all of my Pokemon, and that’s like, man, that’s an investment in time. C: You’re what we in the video game world call a completionist. K: Yes, I am a completionist. So I haven’t done the elite four yet, so I’m not in the Hall of Fame in the Omega, the Omega and Alpha. So I’m working through it and I’m enjoying, but I think I’ve taken, I don’t know, a six month hiatus. It’s been six months since I’ve played a game. C: Yeah, I think so. I think it may be a little bit less than that, I don’t know. I know that when- K: Because I didn’t play them when we went to Spain. C: Okay, yeah. Because, usually, if we’re on a long plane ride you’ll play video games to distract yourself. K: Though lately I haven’t been. C: Yeah. K: Because I’ve been able to sleep. Glorious sleep. Because whether or not I sleep on a plane, that’s like a whole thing, and the past couple of flights I’ve been able to sleep, which has taken away from the video game playing time because I’m sleeping instead. C: I don’t think we’ll ever do an episode on jealousy, but if we ever do, the whole episode is going to be Kisstopher’s jealousy of my ability to fall asleep anywhere. K: Yes. Yes. Yes. I am so envious. I wish I could sleep like you. You’re such a good sleeper. Because, for me, I like to sleep in four hour blocks, and, for me, it’s tough, because sometimes I wish I could sleep in an eight hour block, and it’s difficult to go to sleep. For me, going to sleep is a two to three hour process of winding down and making so the stars align kind of thing, but, for you, it’s like, “I’m going to go to sleep now,” and you roll over and you’re snoring. I’m like, “What the what? That’s just insane. That’s so awesome.” C: Yeah. I think I have, basically, three sleep modes. I have, “I think I’m going to fall asleep in the next 15 minutes”, that’s my slow mode. I have, “I’m going to sleep now,” which is usually one or two minutes. And there is, “If I don’t go to sleep, I’m going to die,” which, as soon as that’s said, I’m asleep. K: Yes. And so, for me, I find that if I think I’m never going to sleep again, then I’m usually asleep in the next five or ten minutes. C: Yeah. K: And then- C: Every time you say that, “I’m never going to sleep again,” I think to myself, but I don’t say it, because it would be insensitive if the moment’s happening, “Guilty feet have got to rhythm.” K: Oh, my gosh. That’s song lyrics. No, that was a good song. I say that’s song lyrics, because you just do something cheesy, so that’s awesome. Love, love, love, love the song. C: Yes. K: Yeah. Careless Whispers, right? C: Yes. K: Yeah. So my main hobbies are puzzling, travel, TV watching, YouTube, video games, and I don’t consider my PhD a hobby, I consider it a life quest. C: It takes up way too much time on stress to be a hobby. K: Yes, absolutely. C: And we absolutely know what you’re going to do with it once you’ve got it, and we’ve got a whole plan for it. K: Yeah. C: I think anybody looking at a PhD as a hobby, unless you’re- K: Have a very different life than I do. C: Yes. Unless you’re incredibly wealthy, it is a terrible, terrible hobby. K: It’s so expensive. C: it’s very expensive. It depends. Mine was not that expensive. So we’re not going to say how much yours is because I think we still don’t know, but mine- K: Yeah, I’m not finished yet. C: Mine was $7000, because I went to public school here in Japan and it’s not that expensive. But in terms of time, and energy, and stress, it was very expensive. K: Well, and you did yours in two years and you didn’t have to do any coursework, so the PhD system in Japan- C: Yeah, I had a Master’s when I entered, which is required to enter it, and then the schools that I was at, you basically wrote your thesis then you were done. Now, if I had been in, say, the school of biology at the same university, it would have been different. The school of biology there requires you to have a published paper, and so one of the things I did as an editor was advise people on how long things would take to get published. I knew one student when I was there who was in biology and their paper got accepted to Nature, and they were like, “Yes, I can graduate now,” and then Nature said, “It’s going to be published in three years,” and they asked their school and their school was like, “No, it doesn’t count until it’s published.” K: And some of the different schools like to get a PhD in psychology here in Japan, there is coursework. And so, for example, even though I had my Master’s, I still had to do two years of coursework. C: Right. And I did coursework, I just wasn’t required to. So I did coursework whenever there was an area of weakness that I needed to shore up for my dissertation. K: Yeah, being able to sit down and take a course because you’re interested in learning the Japanese of that discipline is very different than being forced to take courses before you can even start your dissertation process. C: Yes, it is. The admission process was very different too. I had to interview, I had to go through my proposals for my PhD before I could be admitted as a student, so the process is very different between Japan and other places. K: Yeah. So I don’t feel like my PhD is a hobby, but I do feel like my PhD impacts the hobbies that I do. C: Definitely. K: So specifically, not playing video games, I find that it’s the cross between my hobbies and my lupus, because all of my joints are inflamed right now, the only time that I can something that requires the manipulation of my hands or the use of my hands right now specifically is I save all of that for work and my PhD. So even puzzling right now would be challenging for my hands because I have so much pain these days. When this flare goes away, I might have some more energy for my hands, but I guard it rather jealously, and I find that, specifically, video games are a lot of repetitive movements and the same movements, specifically my thumbs and my wrists hurt quite a bit after playing video games, and then if I have to then go write a five page paper or then go write a section of my dissertation, that just going to blow my hands out completely, so I really can’t do video games right now. Even scrolling to look through list of things I find has been hurting my joints recently. K: Yeah, so the lupus and the porphyria really do kind of dictate my hobbies to me. I don’t know if your disability sort of dictates your hobbies to you. C: I think the biggest way that dictates it is that there are games I would play and enjoy if I could be sure that I wouldn’t have seizures during them or that I wouldn’t have seizures after them. I used to play EVE Online and enjoy that, but that’s a game where a moments inattention can cost you a month of work, and I just found that too frustrating. I was like, “I’m trying to play this to have fun, and this is not fun,” so I stopped. K: And I find for me with television specifically, I get really frustrated that all of a sudden there’ll be just like a beating strobe in random shows that there’s no reason for them to ever have a strobe. Like, with science fiction, I get it, there’s probably going to be a strobe, but I was watching this show about real estate the other day, and all of a sudden there was just this random strobe and flashing through different times in the series, and I was like, “Okay, well that’s not cool.” So I’m always really happy that the way it’s set up is that I can just turn my screen, so that you’re not hit with that strobe, and I’m really cognizant to always be sure to turn my screen if it starts strobing. I immediately feel kind of disappointed in the show writers. It’s like, “Ohhh, why did you have to make that choice?” C: Then if it’s something like Dr. Who, where we know that’s almost certain to be some kind of strobe or flashing or something, I can put on my glasses, but they make me color blind, so it complicates things. K: Yeah. And then I find sometimes with Dr. Who, you’ll just kind of rest them on your forehead and flick them down if it happens, and so some shows that you just love, you do take that risk. I think, for you, you have to really love it to put yourself at risk. C: Yeah, I do. K: I just feel like there should be something better than a strobe, you know? Like a better way to do the storytelling. C: And the British shows are usually better because there’s a law in the UK about it. K: Mmhm. C: But I’m much more sensitive than that law, so, I mean, I think it’s difficult to overstate how sensitive I am. I think the other day I was walking up a set of stairs, and because of my ankylosing spondylitis, I use a cane and I’m careful going upstairs, so if I watched my feet then the non-skid strips at the ends of the stairs formed a striped pattern that if I walk too fast would trigger a seizure. K: Yes, you are extremely sensitive. C: So, yeah, it can be a problem. K: And you absolutely cannot drive. C: No. K: And in Japan, you seriously can’t, because there are random vehicles that are moving signs that strobe, and I’m like, “How is this a good idea for anyone?” Because what if somebody that doesn’t have a diagnosis until they’re subject to that vehicle specifically may never have a seizure? And the strobing, it was so intense it was disturbing for me, and I don’t have the sensitivity and I actually really enjoy strobe. C: I think it’s really rare. I mean, even among people with epilepsy, photosensitivity is something like 1%. So I think the Pokemon shock that happened back in the early 90s, late 80s, there were 300 kids across the entire country that had seizures from it, and then they changed that, so that that wouldn’t be displayed anymore. But it’s really rare that people are consistently photosensitive. It does not make me feel special. K: Well, for me, I feel like they should still do it, they should still take care of it. It bothers me that you’re put at risk. It bothers me that you suffer. C: Thank you. K: So they should just, you know, not cool, man. Don’t strobe. It’s not that hard. C: Get a hobby of not strobing. K: So, yeah, those are our hobbies, what are yours? Drop us a line and let us know. Check out our website and leave a comment there, or … C: And I know that people can register on our website, because I think today I got notices of about 100 Russian spammers doing so. So, please, if you’re a real person, feel free to register and comment on a post. K: We look forward to talking to you next time. Bye. C: Bye bye.

K: So, lately I’ve been thinking about how living in Japan has changed us. C: You think it’s changed you? K: Yeah, I do. Do you think it’s changed you? C: Probably, but I’ve also gotten a little bit older. (K laughs) K: Yeah, I’ve gotten quite a bit older because I’m over a decade older. So, I feel like it’s a mix of a couple of things that have changed me. Living in Japan, having our son move out of the house, and aging a decade. C: Yes. K: So, of those three things, which of those three things do you think has changed you the most? C: I think it’s probably a blend of the them, but I do think that living in Japan has changed the way that I view things. K: And what do you think, like, so which things? C: I think the way that I view space, like living space, personal space, public spaces, what to do in spaces, all of that kind of stuff has been changed by living in Japan. K: Oh, absolutely. That’s a good one. Because I do think that’s one of the major things that has changed in me as well. Like, living space I look at our apartment now, which a 4 LDK (or 4 bedrooms, living room, and dining room), and I think “It is freaking HUGE.” But it is like half the size of the house that we had in the United States. C: Yeah, and I notice you don’t mention the K is kitchen (K laughs) because it’s a Japanese-style kitchen, so it’s, you know, in the US we’d call it a galley kitchen. It’s a little hallway with appliances on both sides. K: Yeah, and we don’t even have like a dedicated oven. Well, I actually like our oven, so I’m not gonna bag on it, but it’s a combination microwave and traditional oven, so… C: Right. K: We can microwave in it, and we can bake in it, and for a lot of years, I’ve felt like it did neither one of those very well. C: It still doesn’t microwave very well. A bag of microwave popcorn can take up to six minutes. K: Yes. C: And it says on the bag “if you put this in for more than two minutes, it will be a flaming ball of fire.” (K laughs) So… K: I’m getting used to cooking in Celsius was a trip. C: Ahh, yes. Yes. K: That was a huge trip for me. Like, for everything to be at 230 as like the starting temp, cooking temperature. I think I pretty much bake everything at 230. C: You’re 230 or 250, depending on how, how moist it is. K: Yeah. So, I still don’t feel like I have a great relationship with Celsius. C: Uh huh. K: But I feel like I’m getting to know it a little better. C: It’s kind of strange, but you guys are fighting less now. K: Yeah. (laughs) That’s a good way to put it. So, having to live in the metric system has been a trip. And with our son driving, ’cause, well, our listeners don’t know, but you know that our son drives me everywhere because I can’t drive in Japan. But he and I both have the experience of learning how far 10 meters was. C: Mmm. K: Because we use GPS, and it says “turn in 10 meters”, and we’re like… is that this light or the next light? (C laughs) And so now we like, we have a, I have a much better understanding of how far a kilometer is, how far a meter is, thanks to GPS. C: Well, thank you, GPS, for that. K: Yes, I really appreciate it. And I have a better understanding of Celsius thanks to the Japanese summer. C: Yes. Because 30 degrees is about the limit. K: Yeah, and 24 degrees Celsius is hot. Hot hot hot. C: Unless you’re at home, and then it might be cold. (K laughs) K: Yeah, that’s what have your internal heating turned to. I do so miss heating in the United States. Heating and air-conditioning in the United States. C: The way that it’s done. K: Yeah, the way that it’s done. C: Yeah, so we have split-unit air conditioners, which means that each room has its own air conditioner, and half of it is inside and then the compressor half is outside, rather than in the US we had central air. K: Yeah. C: So the whole house would be one single temperature. And here, the temperature changes from room to room. K: Yeah. So, in terms of spaces, so for me, the house is a completely different space. C: Mmhmm. K: Because we have our pantry is actually in what would be our tatami room if we had a tatami room, and the tatami room is basically grass mats put down on the floor and then it has sliding doors. And I think just about every apartment has a tatami room. C: I think so, yeah. K: Yeah, and so our tatami room is actually your office, and it was once our son’s bedroom, and is now the pantry, where we store all our dried goods because we have no cabinet space in the kitchen. C: Right. We have a little bit above the counter where our knives fit. So… yeah. K: They’re really shallow, and really low. Our cabinets, at least. C: If you think about like a weekly stay hotel in the US (K laughs) and you cut the space in half, that’s about what we’ve got. K: No, I think we have like the total… I think our kitchen’s a little bit bigger than a weekly stay kitchen because we have a full-sized refrigerator. C: We do have a full-sized refrigerator, yes. K: Yeah, so I think it’s about when we drove cross country, I think it’s about the same size as the weekly-stay kitchens. C: And our refrigerator opens from either side, but I don’t feel like that’s changed me as a person. (K laughs) K: But it has been convenient for, because the refrigerator has now lived in three different apartments. C: Yes. It has convenient moving, and we didn’t have to redo the hinges just because it was only convenient to open it from one side or the other. K: Yes, but we did have to lose our dryer. Our clothes dryer. C: Yes, we did. Sad day. Because there’s no venting to outside, so if we put it in the apartment, all it would do is dry and blow wet linty air into the apartment. K: Yeah. And we could have got, we could have had it connected to where it vented, but it was—because it was a stackable washer/dryer C: Right. And too wide for the space. So it was a whole thing. But line drying is really, really common in the US. Not in the US, in Japan. K: Yeah, most people line dry. C: Most people line dry. K: And like our son, he has his washing machine for his clothes is actually on his balcony. C: Right. K: So he opens up a window and puts his clothes in that way, and then he can actually hang them from inside the house. I don’t know if he does. Probably. C: Probably, yeah. (K laughs) K: So, okay, so how has the living space changed you? Like, do you think of our apartment as big? C: Yeah, I think of our apartment as big. I mean, K: Our manshon. C: Yes. K: Because in Japan, it’s called, where we live is called a manshon. C: Yes. K: Which it’s a condo, because we own it. C: Or for any UK listeners, a flat. Our door lets, our door lets out directly to the outside world, not to a hallway. (K laughs) K: That is such a strange turn of phrase. What do you mean? C: I mean— K: It does let to the outside world, but what are you talking about? C: I mean we live in what I would call an apartment building, but we don’t have a hallway. So I’ve lived in apartments where when you open your door, you’re in a hallway. K: Oh, okay. I’m trying to think… yeah, I guess C: When I met you, you lived in a place that it opened into the hallway. (K laughs) K: No, I had to think about. I never thought of that as a hallway, even though it did open up to an apartment across the hall, and not to the doors. C: Right. K: So okay, yeah, gotcha. Okay. Yeah. Because when we moved in together, the apartment we lived in opened out to the world, not to a hallway. C: That’s correct. K: But my father’s apartment in that same complex opened to a hallway. C: That’s correct. K: Okay. Gotcha. I’m caught up now. Okay. C: Caught up on the lingo? K: Yeah. (laughs) Okay, so what are you talking about? Our… yeah, I asked you how does our apartment—do you think it’s big? C: I think it’s big, yeah. It’s got enough space to do all the different things we do. We have enough space that we can keep a puzzle set up permanently. K: Yes. C: So we can always have a puzzle going. We have enough space to cook and to eat and to work in a place that’s not bed. (K laughs) And to store all— K: Even though my favorite place to work is bed. C: Yes, but you like working on your laptop and I like working on my desktop, so. K: Yeah. C: And we have a place to store our clothes and things, so I feel like we have enough space. K: I feel like more than enough space. C: Probably. K: I feel like we could lose two rooms and be okay. C: I would be confused if we just lost them. K: (laughs) Like if we woke up and the two rooms were gone? C: Yeah. “Where’d they go?” K: Yeah, that would freak me out, too. Yeah, that would freak me out. Would they open up to the nothing? C: Yeah. Or new neighbors. K: Oh, no! C: —No, these are our… K: (laughs) That would not be good. So I guess we’ll be keeping those two rooms. C: Yes. K: But I’m saying that I’ve always felt like we could downsize. C: Yes. I think so. K: I feel like we needed this much space when our son was living with us. C: Right. I feel like that. So we have four bedrooms, and it’s 900 square feet. So, for people listening, I don’t know whether that seems large or small to you. I mean, at 4 bedrooms in the US, we had 2300 square feet, and some of our friends were like “Wow, how do you get by in such a tiny, tiny house?” K: (laughs) Yeah, but everybody liked the layout because we had an open floor plan. C: We did, yes. K: I think an open floor plan. Because this also has—our apartment also has—an open floor plan. C: Yes. K: I love an open floor plan. C: Which we specially ordered. K: Yeah. I think it opens up the space and it makes the living space feel so much larger. C: Yes. K: And I feel like it gives me room to breathe. C: Well, and it lets us be in separate rooms and still be able to see each other and talk to each other. K: Yeah, so I really like it. But in terms of living in something I guess that is, what, two-thirds the size of the house in US—do you feel pinched? Do you feel cramped? C: It’s less than half. But I still don’t feel cramped. I feel like the way that I understand private space has changed, and so things that I would have assumed needed to be done at home in the US, I just think “well, I would go out if I wanted to do that.” K: Like what? C: Like hosting a party. K: Mmm. Yeah, we’ve never hosted a party in Japan. C: No, and it’s very unusual. If I knew somebody was hosting a party at their place, unless it were like a housewarming party— K: Mmhmm. C: —where you’re just going over to give them a gift and see their place, I think it would be strange because that’s what the public spaces are for. K: But when we first bought the place, I thought we were going to host barbecues, because we can see several fireworks shows from our balcony. C: Yes. K: (laughs) And then I just never ended up hosting any of them. How weird. It’s weird to me that I’ve never done a barbecue here. When one of the selling points of the apartment for me was I felt like I could still host parties. C: Right. But we bought this relatively early in our stay in Japan. K: Yeah, I think it was like a year into it? C: Yeah, it was less than a year. K: Okay, so I was still very American in my thinking. C: Yeah, so we had just decided, yes we’re going to buy a place here, we’re going to own in Japan, even though we didn’t have permanent residency. And so sometimes that was stressful. K: Yes. C: But we have permanent residency now. But even the real estate agent told us “Oh, I don’t think it’s legal to own an apartment in Japan if you don’t have permanent residency.” (K laughs) And I told them “Yes, it is.” And they so “Oh, okay.” K: Yeah. C: So it’s hard to get a mortgage, but we rolled our California house into our Japan apartment, basically. K: Yeah. So something that I find interesting, I’m thinking about my girlfriends, and a lot of my girlfriends have children, and so my office is a funner place to come, so they’ve never been to the house. C: Right. K: And then I have other girlfriends that because they have children it’s easier for me to go to their place or their neighborhood C: Right. K: And for my Japanese friends, it’s always easier to meet out, although I had a Japanese friend that used to come over for dinner quite often, and then we kind of have grown apart over the years as I got busier and they got busier. And your friends, you guys always meet out. C: Yes. K: And you know what I find interesting in Japan? I find that I’m not friends with couples. That I usually only meet one partner in a partnership. C: Right. K: In social settings. And I don’t get to know their significant other, whereas in the United States, we were friends with couples and families. C: And you know, I don’t think that that’s just because we’re foreigners. Because I worked at a company for a long time that was about half Japanese workers and half foreign workers, and the Japanese people, their couples never came as a couple either. K: Well, and we do have a couple of friends that we’re friends with the entire family unit. C: Right. K: But for the most part, C: Yeah, for the most part it’s person-to-person meeting. K: Well, and too, I have a lot of friends that I’ve met through the Black Women in Japan Facebook group. C: Mmhmm, yes. K: And so the reason that we’re hanging out is that we’re hanging out sistah-to-sistah. And you know just… it’s a sistah space. And so we don’t… it’s female energy. And so we don’t really invite our significant others into that female energy space, and it just felt really natural that when we broke off and hang out in pairs or in small groups that it’s just “us girls” kind of thing. C: Oh my goodness. K: What? C: You exclude me because I’m not a black woman? K: (laughs) No, I don’t exclude you because you’re not a black woman. You’re not excluded. You’re just not invited. C: Ah, okay! K: There’s a difference. C: There is a difference. K: And you don’t invite me to your ACCJ stuff. C: No, I don’t. K: American Chamber of Commerce in Japan. C: No, I don’t. I used to— K: Even though I used to be an ACCJ member. C: Yeah. Yes. K: (laughs) No, I joined the chamber before you did. So. C: Yes you did. Your membership number was one lower than mine. K: Yes it was. Thank you very much. No, I think I joined longer than that before you. C: No, it was exactly one number lower. (K laughs) K: So that’s their bad, because I think it was like six months between me joining and you joining. C: No, it was simultaneous. K: It was simultaneous? C: It was simultaneous, yeah. K: Oh. I didn’t know that. So you just never went to events? C: I went to events. I didn’t go to the events you went to. K: Okay. C: Because you were trying to establish yourself as a business, and I was working for a different business. K: Yes, that’s true. C: And so if we show up as a couple, we’re very much seen as a couple. K: Yes. Because that’s when I felt like my business was stable enough to introduce it to the world. C: Right. K: Because I’m a really private person. And so I was like “Hey, wait a minute though, I’m in business, and I shouldn’t be so private.” C: Right. So you didn’t want to be known as “Chad and Kisstopher”. K: Yeah, no, I didn’t want to be known as “Chad and Kisstopher”. C: And we’re okay being Chad and Kisstopher, but we are separate people. K: Yeah. Yeah. So we’re Chad and Kisstopher for the podcast, and we’re Chad and Kisstopher socially, but business-wise I’m very much Kisstopher because I’m a therapist. And so I think it’s important for people to know that you don’t know anything about my clients, you don’t know anything really about my business. Whereas our son, who is my office manager, does know because sometimes he helps clients find the office and he does all my invoicing, and he’s my office manager. So he does know. He knows quite a bit more about the business than you do. And quite a bit more about the clients, because you don’t know anything. Some of the clients he actually knows and helps because he does what we call “push-in” where he comes in and he’s there during the session because he interprets for me when I work with Japanese nationals. C: Nice. And that’s why Google’s “busyfree” calendar is really nice, because you can just set your appointments and then I can see whether you have an appointment or not. K: Yeah. C: But not the details of it. K: Yeah. And everybody has a code, so everybody gets a letter and a number, and sometimes the numbers can be anything between a 1 digit to a 3 digit number. C: How dehumanizing. (K laughs) K: Which is exactly the point. So that— C: Oh, okay K: —you know, you can’t figure out who they are. C: Well I’ve met a few of your clients, because they introduce themselves that way. K: Oh, that’s nice. C: Yeah. They say “Hi!” I say “…hi?” They introduce themselves and I’m like “…okay…” and they say “Your wife is my therapist!” And I’m like “Oh, great. I hope she’s helpful.” (K laughs) “Yes, she is. I wanted to tell you she’s wonderful.” K: Oh that’s nice to know. Thank you for that. I think that’s a big thing that’s changed from the United States to Japan is that, I never ran into—well, maybe once in a while… it was really really rare that I would ever see a client out in the world in the United States. Because I had a practice in the United States as well. But here in Japan, living in Nagoya, it is really common that I would see clients out in the world, which is one of the reasons why I’m not longer a member of the ACCJ. Because the ACCJ is open to anyone who wants to join, not just Americans. C: Right. K: And, umm, sometimes people who are not even members of the ACCJ come to events. C: Yes. K: So anybody in Japan can come to an ACCJ event. So I find that it’s just easier for me to no longer be a member of the chamber because my rule of thumb is that if I walk into a space and I see a client there, I just leave. C: Well, and I think too that the public transit centralizes a lot of things. K: I think so. C: So I know that I see people that I know out and about almost always at subway stations. Because there’s a limited number of stations downtown, for example, so if I’m headed downtown and somebody else is headed downtown at roughly the same time, we’re probably going to see each other. K: Yeah, so I find that, in the United States, when I would be out in the public, I still felt very private. C: Right. You’d almost never see people you knew. K: Right, and so now, because I remember we were going out of town somewhere, and we were having like a private conversation—on a train platform, in a public space—and our friend tapped us on the shoulder and they were like “Hey, I was trying to get your guys’ attention, but you were so into talking to each other that you didn’t notice me.” C: We were doing our cupcake thing. K: (laughs) So, a friend said that they view our marriage as being in the cupcake phase. Which, I’m not quite sure what that means. Does that mean it’s still like sweet and warm and loving? Because I agree with that. C: I agree with that. But maybe they were just like stealth saying “You guys are fat.” K: (laughs) Which we are! Yeah, so do have snacks. C: Yeah. K: Snack cake is a thing in our life, and I love it. I love being big and round and fluffy. C: We have a marriage with sprinkles. K: I like it. I like how much we eat. I enjoy food. I like that our world is very sensual. C: Yes. And I feel like Japan has kind of changed my view of what happens in public, and how people react. K: Okay… C: I find that people are not really emotional in public. Because “drunk on a Friday at night” does not count as emotional. K: Well sometimes people cry on the subway. C: Sometimes they do. K: Yeah, but it’s very self-contained. C: Yeah, it’s not a display. It’s not for other people. Because with such high population density here in Nagoya, at least you kind of have to… K: Look away and give them their privacy. C: Adopt a mentality that what’s going on around you is not really your business. K: Yeah. But, for me, I feel like, strangely I’m more aware of how my actions impact people around me. More so than I was in the United States, and I find that it’s made me more polite, and kinder, and gentler. I’m a kinder, gentler Kisstopher. C: Yeah? K: Yeah. I feel like I’m way more compassionate, and I feel more connected to everybody in Nagoya. Like, I honestly, I feel connected to the entire population. And I care very much about whether or not I’m putting more bad than good into the world. And I don’t think I was that focused on like—because yeah, I want to be a force of good. I’ve always wanted to put good into the world, but really thinking about my day-to-day actions. Like microaggressions, overt aggression, just those kind of things on the person-to-person level. C: Right. K: So I find I’m much less aggressive. C: That’s interesting. Yeah, I think I see a lot more people when I go out because there’s not the barrier of being in a private vehicle. K: Yes. C: So if I go out and I travel somewhere that’s not walking distance, I’m guaranteed to see at least 200 people. K: Yeah. Do you think that that’s made you kinder, or more connected, or? C: I think it’s made me much more aware of how people perceive my actions. K: Mmhmm. C: And it’s funny now, because it stopped, but when we moved here it used to be that all the subway trains had pictures up that said “Beware of Robbers” (K laughs) and it showed, like, a man with a beard and glasses and a hat K: Yes (laughs). C: Which is like my stock uniform, so. K: Yeah. C: It always felt a little bit like I was being picked on. Like K: That you were being profiled. C: Yeah, like “look at that guy, he’s the one that’s going to rob you.” K: Yeah. So that’s something I was wondering about. So, for me, my whole life I’ve been aware of being a minority, and I’ve been aware that in some spaces I might be the only Blackness that people come in contact with. I might be the only African-American that they ever meet C: Right K: And so I have always felt the responsibility of how I behave in public as being, representing many more people than myself. C: Yes. K: Do you find, now that you’re a minority, has that shifted for you? Are you aware that you’re like representing all white guys in Japan? C: Yes, I am. And that I am seen as a white guy in Japan. That I’m seen as something other. K: Mmhmm. C: I find that, like, in talking with Japanese people, there’s kind of a tension that goes along with it, until I mention that I’m married to an American. K: Yeah. C: And then that tension relaxes. Like, “Okay, you’re not married to a Japanese person.” And I know several couples who have been married for decades where one person is Japanese and one person is not, but I know that I encounter a lot of feeling among Japanese people that American men who marry Japanese women are bad people. K: Yeah, out to exploit. C: Yeah. So I definitely am aware that I am representing all white foreigners. In some sense. A friend of mine, who’s from Bangladesh, said “Yeah, I know that when I go out, they look at you, and you’re white, so they see an English teacher, and they look at me, and I’m brown, so they see a construction worker.” K: Mmm. C: Which are kind of the stereotypical professions. K: You know it’s interesting when people find out I’m American. Because they have like, no idea. People mistake me for Brazilian or Middle-Eastern or Latin all the time. And that’s been my whole life, people don’t really know which category I fit in. And as soon as they find out that I’m American, they assume that I’m an English teacher. C: Mmhmm. K: And I tell them, “No, I’m a therapist.” They’re like, “How is that possible?” (laughs) C: How is that possible? No foreigners have any problems. K: Right! No, I get the other thing, where they’re like “Oh, thank goodness someone is here helping all the foreigners with their massive problems.” Because the standard Japanese thing has been—a lot of my clients tell me that as soon as they have problems, their Japanese friends tell them “go home”. C: Right. K: Like, “mmm, you gotta go, you’re not you’re not doing okay.” So, but that’s a topic for another cast. So for me I find that it is really freeing to not be an English teacher, although I have taught English. Because it allows people to immediately get out of that mindset that they know everything about me as soon as they know my country of origin. C: Right. K: Do you experience that? C: Yeah, I do experience that. And so when people ask me what I do, I’m like “well, that’s a complicated answer. Mostly I” K: No, it’s not. You’re a writer. C: Yeah, but I haven’t always been a writer, so I’ve done a variety of things here in Japan. K: Yeah, and none of them have been complicated, love. C: Not at the time. (K laughs) K: Your history is not complicated! Everything you’ve done has been very straightforward. C: No, I’m mysterious. K: No, you were a PhD student, and then you were an editor, and then you were the office manager, and then you were a writer. C: I was the operations manager. K: Oh, operations manager. C: The office manager had a much harder job than me. K: Yeah, sorry, I always mix that up. So yeah, operations manager. All of those are like really straightforward, babe. C: Yeah, I guess they’re straightforward. K: (laughs) And now you’re a writer. C: But it’s confusing to people, so when people, especially when Japanese people ask me what I do and I tell them that I write, and they say “well, why do you speak Japanese the way that you do?” And I say “Well, I did my PhD here in Japan”, and they go “Ohhh. Okay okay.” Because apparently I sound… I don’t know. K: Educated? C: No. Not like a jackass, but like … umm, like I live at the university. K: So you sound like C: Stiff and formal. K: Oh, okay. C: And they say “I know what those words mean, but nobody says them.” So it’s like “Well, I can’t help it. That’s the way I learned.” Whereas our son is very natural. K: Mm, yeah. Our son does sound very natural. Because he culture switches. C: Right. K: Code switches. C: Right. I mean, I’m always American. I understand the Japanese stuff, and you know, I can hand out a business card. I can make a bow, and I can introduce myself, but I think people are still always conscious that I am American. K: Yeah. So another way that… being a minority, another way that being Japan has changed me is that I can be an invisible minority by simply putting on a pair of glasses. C: Yes. K: Which, sunglasses, specifically. And that is so interesting to me. That I can be Japanese and treated like I’m Japanese by just putting on a pair of sunglasses. And then I’m no longer a minority. C: Mmhmm. K: And, it’s a trip. C: Yes. K: And I didn’t know it. A friend of mine told me “there’s nothing about you that identifies you as not Japanese.” C: Yes. K: I was like, “What are you talking about?” They said “aside from your eyes, like if you put on a pair of sunglasses, I would just think you’re Japanese.” And I’m like “Well, don’t I dress American?” And they said “You dress kind of weird, but there are a lot of people in Japan who dress weird.” C: Yes, there are areas that are known for dressing weird. K: Yeah, and so I’m seen like alternative. C: Mmhmm. K: So kind of like punk rock. So, that’s cool. I like the fact that I’m punk rock. C: With those hazel eyes. Just you’re not Japanese. K: Yeah, no, not at all. Nothing about my eyes are Japanese. The shape, nothing. So it’s really interesting that in Japan I almost never get discriminated against. C: Yeah, that is interesting. K: Yeah, it’s a weird phenomenon for me. C: It was weird for me when I realized that I was being discriminated against, in Japan. K: How did that change you? C: I think it made me a lot more compassionate towards people who experience discrimination and decide not to fight that fight right then. K: Mm, yeah. C: Because I grew up with like, an intellectual understanding of discrimination. I grew up Mormon, and so I heard all the time, “Oh, we’re being persecuted.” And every once in a while, somebody would like break into the church and like, graffiti stuff, so like it wasn’t completely baseless, but I grew up being told “You’re being singled out for bad treatment”, and then when I moved to California I realized that just really wasn’t true. That as a white guy I just walked around with a lot of privilege? Sorry if that word bothers anybody, but that’s what it was. And here I’ve kind of lost that, so… white Americans are a model minority here, so I do have—among foreigners—a favored status but it’s still not seen as the equal of the Japanese. K: Yeah. And I understand being a model minority because I am mixed and so, being mixed, I am rather light skinned, and because of colorism some people value the color of my skin. And because of that value, I am a model minority. For some people. Still a minority, but a model minority. And I am aware of all of the privilege that comes with that. And I am very… my whole life… any time I’ve had an opportunity to use the privilege I have—and I think everybody has privilege in some space— C: On some axis, yes. K: Yeah, and so, for me, I’m always careful to lend my privilege when I can. And to speak out. But that doesn’t mean that I fight every battle. And I really, I let most microaggression go just because it’s easier to go about my day. It’s quicker to just write it off than to cope with it, and that used to drive you bananas. C: It used to. Because when we got together, I was like “But that was racism! We should go, like fight that, we should sue them, we should whatever,” and you were like “just let it go. Just let it go and let me have my day.” And I learned to let it go, but it wasn’t until we moved here that I really learned why you choose to just let it go. How exhausting it is to constantly be K: To fight every battle. C: Yeah. K: It is fatigue. Just straight up fatigue. C: That sometimes you have to pick them and say “This one’s not worth it.” K: Yes. And I know some people that fight every battle, and they have my mad respect, and just mad crazy props on that. Because I just don’t have the energy, and I admit that that is a weakness in me. Because I do think every microaggression is worthy of the battle. I just choose not to fight it. C: Mmhmm. K: That may be upsetting to some people, and I’m sorry if it upsets you or hurts your feelings. That’s not my intention. My intention is that I’m just not bringing that toxicity into my day any further than that moment. But race and all that in Japan is a different cast. This is about how Japan has changed us. So, for me, that’s like a broadening of your mindset. And I do feel that living in Japan has broadened my mindset. C: I think that’s a good word. Because it hasn’t changed it. I haven’t lost my mindset. I’ve just gained an additional one. So now I have multiple perspectives within myself for different situations. K: Yeah. For me, like the biggest change in my perspective is the one on immigration. In the United States, when I was living in California in the United States, I don’t feel like people really explained to me what the immigration process was. And so I don’t feel like all of my opinions were based on any sort of knowledge of how hard it is to immigrate, and how much money it costs to immigrate. Because in California, in the Bay Area, we have this image of people coming across in boats and coming across with nothing. And coming across with no money. C: Right. K: And that’s just not the case. Nobody gets to immigrate for free. Nobody gets to immigrate for no money. There are people who are snuck into the country illegally, but they’re paying thousands and thousands of dollars to be snuck into the country illegally. And risking their life to do so. And then for people who immigrate legally, it costs thousands and thousands of dollars. There’s no free way to immigrate. So, that was quite shocking to me. And also what was sacrificed in terms of education and history and work experience, because when I first came to Japan, even though I had practiced in the United States, nothing transferred. C: Right. Everybody said that “that wasn’t in Japan.” K: Yes. And “you don’t have any experience working with foreigners living in Japan.” Everything was “in Japan”. “You have no experience working with kids in Japan.” And so I was very fortunate that I was very fortunate that I was able to find that first client who was willing to take a chance on me. And it was an individual who was living as a shut-in. They’re called hikkikomori here in Japan, and allow me to work with them, but I lost everything by immigrating. And it took a lot of years to get it back and a lot of re-education. C: Right. K: And so I was really humbled by the experience of everything I had lost. And really looking back at some of my past behaviors and some of my past political positions, quite ashamed of my behavior. C: It makes it a lot easier to understand, for example, why somebody could immigrate to the US and be there for 20 years and still not speak English. K: Yes. (laughs) On that one, yes. Because my Japanese is busted. C: Because, you know, we had a gardener in the US, and he spoke English, but none of the people he sent out did. And he said “I’m turning this business over to somebody who bought it, and I’m moving back to Mexico.” But for most of his employees, they didn’t need English to get by in their daily life. K: And I don’t need Japanese to get by in my daily life. And most of my clients speak English. And the ones who don’t, I have an interpreter. C: Yeah, so it made it easier to see kind of how isolating that lack of language can be but also how you can get in a rut of just not needing the language. K: I think too if you look at, like, hours worked. You know, because I look at how many hours I’m working, and I’m sorry, I just not have the energy to—in addition to earning my PhD and running my business and having a life—to make it to Japanese class. I study Japanese independently, but going to a formal class, I just don’t have it. And my Japanese friends do not value my Japanese. C: No. K: They want to speak to me in English. C: Yes, they do. K: So I find that nobody values my Japanese. (laughs) And that’s okay. It’s busted, so I get it, but you really have to—at least in Nagoya—you have to be quite forceful if you just want to speak Japanese. Because I know our son does that. He just refuses to speak English in Japanese spaces. C: Yes. K: So how’s your Japanese? C: My Japanese is middling. So I can get by, so daily life I can read enough to know what bills are, I can… you know, it’s probably at the junior-high level, maybe. K: Mmm. Yeah, mine’s definitely elementary. C: So I can have basic conversations, but if you want to talk about something complicated—except for math, where it’s good—then my Japanese is not great. So if people want to switch to English and their English is good, it’s like “Okay, yes let’s switch to English because we’ll be able to have a better conversation.” K: Yeah. C: So I find that, for me, most of my conversations are in English, but occasionally—especially at work there were people I’d have conversations in Japanese with. Like the place I worked, the accountant didn’t really speak English, so we would speak in Japanese. But then dealing with my limited understanding sometimes he’d need to explain things. So, you know, I’d like it to get better, but… K: Yeah, I’d like it to get better. Something I’m proud of when I look back at my history is I supported it in California when the DMV wanted to have driving manuals in various languages. And I supported it. And now I’m so happy I did. Because I am so grateful for all of the romaji and all of the English that is available here in Japan. C: Yes. K: And I know that the two are completely unrelated, supporting there being multiple paperwork in multiple languages in the United States, but just recently I had to get a form from the bank and I was so happy when that form was in English, because I was able to verify that this was the form I needed. And so… C: And you would have had to have paid for a translation otherwise. K: Yeah. And so it’s really. Well, no because our son would have did it, but I guess technically I’m paying for it because he would have did it during his working hours, because that would have been part of his work, so yeah I’m paying for it. But it is nice to have access to English. And I think there is a lot of English available, but for me I no longer feel that it’s my right to have English. And I feel like it’s a gift every time there’s like an English menu available I feel like it’s a gift. Every time there’s paperwork in English I feel like it’s a gift. And I think before living outside of the United States, I don’t think I would have understood just the relief that it provides in my day-to-day living to have access to my native language. C: Right. And I was in Tokyo recently, and they’ve started making subway announcements in Japanese, English, Chinese, and Korean. K: Oh, nice. C: In preparation for the Olympic games. So those are coming to Tokyo in 2020, so a lot of stuff is like “We’re going to do these minimal things in multiple languages for the Olympics.” K: Nice. C: Yeah, it’s nice to be able to hear the stop name in English. I can understand the Japanese now, but I remember when we arrived it was a matter of counting stops K: (laughs) Yes! Hanging out that window. C: The stop name is not written in English and it’s not said in English, so how many stops? Okay, is this three or four? K: Yeah. C: And exploring that, so I think that being in Japan has made me much more adventurous, and willing to try new things. K: Yes. C: More willing to just get lost and trust that we’ll be able to find our way back home. K: Yes. So, for me, I find that it’s in some ways solidified who I am, and in other ways I feel like it’s caused me to evolve and have a deeper understanding and more compassionate and be a more compassionate person and just live a compassion-filled and compassion-focused life. And I really enjoy that. And I enjoy meeting people from all over the world. When we lived in California, I did have friends from all around the world, but I wasn’t also an immigrant. C: Right. K: And so it was kind of different. I feel like now I have a deeper access point. And I think too, doing therapy with people from around the world and seeing how different things are expressed, and how different things are felt, and experienced, I really do have a deeper understanding of the variation in experience when experience and culture meet. And I just feel really really fortunate and really really lucky to have been born in the United States, because that was just luck of the draw. It was completely happenstance, and to have freedom of movement. You know? And my heart goes out to anyone who’s in a refugee situation and is trapped in their country and wants to get out. And so I look at in those situations, we really do. I don’t know. Something needs to be done about how borders are done in the world, so that people aren’t trapped in those really horrible situations. C: Yeah, I agree. I have a lot more compassion for that. I know how much it cost us to move to Japan and become permanent residents. K: Yes. C: In terms of both time and money and constriction, so K: And worry. C: And worry. You know, I worked at the same job for 5 years. Decent company, I’m not complaining about the company. K: They’re a great company. C: A great company, yes. But, you know, I needed that time working there at one company to be able to qualify for permanent residency. K: Yeah, having five consecutive years. C: And I know that Japan is not the worst on that. I have friends in Korea who say that your visa is tied to your job K: And in the United States C: And in the Unites States your visa is tied to your job. So if you quit your job you have to get a new visa. Japan isn’t like that. Your visa is tied to your profession, but not to your job. But if you want permanent residency you have to stay a long time at one job. And just the freedom of being able to switch now is like a sigh of relief. But it also gives me a lot of compassion for people who are stuck in their jobs. Whether they’re stuck in their job in the US because of health insurance or they’re stuck because of immigration or you know, family circumstance or whatever. K: Yeah. C: Whatever it is. I also feel like I’m much more compassionate now than I was when we moved here. K: Yeah, because I do have, I agree that I just have a much deeper understanding what being stuck means and how people get stuck. Because things that seem like amazing opportunities—I’ve seen people come over here and get stuck. C: Yes. K: And so, you know, for me, I really have a better understanding that everybody is bringing their history with them, and that we can’t know. That if we were just to write down some basic facts about people, like where they live, what they do for a living, all of that, it really doesn’t tell us anything about that person. C: No, it doesn’t. K: And so for me, I just try to be compassionate in all of my interactions. Compassion first. C: Yeah. I think for me a lot of that is living in Japan and having that second perspective. Some of that is just getting older. K: Yes. So much older. (laughs) So I think that’s a great place to end the cast, and thank you for listening. And yeah, we’re just more compassionate now. That’s the number one way Japan has changed both of us. C: And after the next cast, we will be even older, so we’ll be even more compassionate (K laughs). Bye bye. K: Bye.

K: So, lately I’ve been thinking about the story of us. C: The story of us, like the whole thing? K: Yeah, like, how we met and all of that, and how we got together, and I’ve been thinking about it because clients always ask me—well, my most recent intake asked me if I was happy, and I said “Yes”, and they said “Oh good, because you seem happy.” Like, they care whether or not their therapist is happy, which I think is awesome. I think everyone should ask their therapist if they’re happy. And, they also asked me if I was happily married. And I said, “Yes, I’m happily married.” I’m ecstatic with our marriage. I absolutely love our marriage. C: Me, too. I feel like our story is just started though, so… I know it’s been, like, a couple decades— K: —Yeah C: —but I feel like we’re still in the origin stories. K: So, I don’t feel like we’re in the origin stories anymore because we’ve raised our son. C: I don’t know, I mean, like— K: He’s an adult man now. C: —Like, how old is Batman, right? (K laughs) C: Because if Batman had aged… so, you know. K: So if they can come out with Batman’s origin story now— C: Exactly. K: —after over 50 years… C: Yeah, yeah, exactly. K: Okay, yeah, if we’re measuring in superhero  years, then we’re still in the origin phase. C: Yeah, but we’re the original. We’re the Golden Age. K: Yeah, we are the Golden Age. I like that. That’s awesome. So, I feel really fortunate that we met in college. C: Yeah, me too. K: I think that’s like a really fun origin story. C: Well, and meeting in community college. I feel like it, it doesn’t make it more fun, but it does give me a chance to tell people how awesome community college is. K: I don’t feel like De Azna was awesome just because we met. C: No, it was awesome for other reasons. K: (laughs) Yes. Lots of other reasons. C: And that’s why I’m saying I like being able to talk to people about those other reasons. Because I really like the way that we met… I feel like De Anza, which is the community college where we met, kind of typified that. That we were both there for self-improvement. K: Yes. But I think most people—no, I think most people of a mature age…. But I think I was of a mature age but you were still like college age. C: I was still college age, yes. K: Yeah, ’cause I’m six and a half years older than you. C: Yes, you are. K: So I was of a more mature age. C: Yes, (K starts laughing) you were of a more mature age. You keep saying that, and I’m going to remind people that you’re only 6 years and 4 months older than me, not 6 and a half. K: Oh wow, okay. C: So, watch out. K: Yeah, and I always round up to I’m a decade older than you. C: Yeah, you do. K: Well, because with you growing up in Alaska and me growing up in California, it does feel like there was a decade in between like the popular culture that I experienced and the popular culture that you experienced. C: No, it works the other way because it took like five years for things to get to Alaska, so a lot of our pop culture references were the same. Because one of the first things that we bonded over was the fact that we both really liked Cake. Not the food. K: No, the band. C: Yeah, I mean, I like cake the food— K: But we both loved Cake, the song “Never There”, which was playing on the radio. It was their most popular song at the time. C: Yes. K: So what are you talking about? C: I’m talking about. You know…. (K laughs) K: You’re talking about you don’t know? C: I don’t know. K: You’re talking about us having the same cultural references. C: I don’t know. That reminds me of the day that Outkast’s “Hey Ya” came on. K: Yep. C: And you called me on the phone. I forget where you were. Maybe at work or something. You called me on the phone, and you said “What’s that song?” And that’s all you said. And I said, “I looked it up, it’s called Hey Ya. It’s by Outkast.” (K laughs) K: Yes, you were always doing that for me. And I was always calling you up, “What’s this song?” C: ‘Cause you didn’t even say anything about what song it was. It was just “What’s that song?” K: Yeah. Yeah. C: You know, usually you have to say, like, “I heard this…”, but I think “Hey Ya” and I think “Seven Nation Army” by the White Stripes. K: Yep. Those were both, “What’s that song?” and you knew them immediately. C: Yep. K: So, when I was working with Applied Behavior Consultants, I used to call you in between cases, because I would drive to their homes. C: Right, right. K: And I would always call you in between or when I was in transit. So I wasn’t calling you while I was working. I was calling you during my transportation time. C: Yeah, but for me that was you were at work. Like, I couldn’t call you up, because you were at work. K: Yes, that’s true. That’s correct. So, anyways. I like the story of how we met because, to me, it’s so interesting to me how many things that had to happen for us to meet. Because I feel so luck and so fortunate to have met you. So, we had a friend. Well, I had a friend, because you didn’t know her at the time— C: Yeah, I didn’t have any friends. K: There was one of the quads at De Anza. I would hang out and smoke cigarettes with my friends. And one of my friends came out of… statistics class, was it, or econ? C: Economics. K: Okay. Came out of econ class. And right before them, you had come out of econ class and you were standing by a tree. C: Yep. K: And I was laughing and talking and she said to me, “I’m gonna fail econ.” And I said, “Well, don’t you know anybody in this class?” And she was like, “no”, and I said “well, who’s the smartest person in the class?” and she pointed to you. And I said, “that dude over there?” and she was like, “yeah”, and so I said “HEY! YOU! COME HERE!” and you looked down very comically and pointed at yourself, and I was like “YEAH, YOU. COME HERE.” And then, to my surprise, you actually walked over to us. C: Well, I mean, now I think you know that like somebody yelling at me… it’s embarrassing. (K laughs) K: Yes. C: I walked over to make you stop. K: Yes. So I didn’t know that you were just trying to make me stop yelling “hey you”, and it was apparent that I was going to keep yelling at you until you came over. C: Absolutely. K: And then I asked you, like, I didn’t ask you your name or anything, I said, “Hey, we’re all going to lunch. Do you want to come with us?” C: Yeah, it was weird to me that you didn’t ask whether I was good at economics. K: Yeah, I didn’t. C: Because… you know… her assumption that I was good at economics because I was skipping class… (K laughs) C: —It was a pretty big leap. K: Yes. C: I mean I was good at economics, but I hadn’t transferred my AP scores. So I could have skipped that class if I had transferred my AP scores, but because I went to high school so long ago they were on microfiche, so it was like a whole thing to get them transferred because they weren’t electronic. K: Yeah. C: So I decided to take that class. You know, and I was enjoying it, so, at the time, that class cost me $35, to take that whole class. So, I was just like, you know “I’ll just take this, and enjoy myself.” So because I was too lazy to get my AP score transferred, we met. (K laughs) C: So, yeah, you asked me to go to lunch— K: I think because, so what’s interesting is because you had a crush on that friend, I feel like, for me, that’s why you came over. And the reason that you agreed to go to lunch with us is because you had a crush on that friend. C: Well, I’d say an eye crush. Because I didn’t even know her name. K: Yeah. And we’re going to leave her name out because you know— C: Yeah. K: —we’re protecting identities. So, for me it was really interesting that I had just called you over and invited you to go to lunch with us, and the whole purpose of everything was for you and our friend to connect. And then through the process of lunch, I just found you to be so incredibly interesting. C: And funny. K: Yes, and funny. C: I feel like that’s the more important part. K: Yes, you always make me laugh, and the fact that you tell really smart jokes, I really enjoyed. Because over lunch, we were all discussing a fellow classmate, who was a male, and this person had never had sex, and one of our other classmates—because it was a group of like, 5 of us, 5 or 6 of us—and they were all discussing this person’s virginity, and they were kind of lusting after him. And I wasn’t, because I said “he’s dumb as a post”, to which you said…. C: “Don’t insult the post.” K: Yes, and that cracked me up. C: Yeah. K: So, no, say the rest of the joke. You said, “don’t insult the post because…” C: I don’t remember the rest of the joke. (K laughs) C: Because that was the funny part to me. K: You said “don’t insult the post because” … something. I don’t remember the joke now, either. C: I just made you forget it. K: Yeah, you did. C: Magic trick! K: Total magic trick. No, I think it was something about the post was smarter than the person because they had atoms or something move. I don’t know. It was a really funny joke. At the time. But this is a couple decades ago. I’m old. I’m tired. I can’t remember. (C laughs) K: But, and in that moment, I felt so bonded to you. C: Mmhmm. K: And it gave me an exit out of a really uncomfortable conversation. C: Right. K: Because I didn’t like the fact that everybody was sort of lusting over this guy based on his looks and making a big deal about whether or not the person had had sex. Because I didn’t feel like that was any of my business. C: Right. K: And whether or not someone has had sex prior to dating me, umm, doesn’t impact how attractive they are to me as a person. C: I think it’s kind of creepy. I mean, I know that it’s big in some circles to like, want to… K: Be someone’s first? C: Be someone’s first. And I think if you’re a virgin and you want to marry a virgin, that’s like… you know… rock on with your virginal self. Like, in all seriousness. K: Yeah. C: But I think that if you’re not a virgin, whether or not somebody else is shouldn’t have any bearing on how attractive you find them. Because I see it primarily in guys who want to sleep with women who are virgins— K: But there’s like a whole group of… I’ve known a lot of women that really value male virginity. C: Yeah. K: And female virginity. C: It’s creepy to me. K: Yeah, I don’t value the virginal self. But that’s just me. I don’t feel like it’s anything special. C: Yeah. K: To be someone’s first. I think if you’re someone’s first, there’s just a lot of stuff you’re going to have to teach them. (C laughs) K: And I don’t value teaching in that way. C: You went to college to learn, not to teach. K: Thank you! Snaps. Props. So, after that I remember us just becoming really fast friends, and hanging out together all the time. And we sort of started to talk about everybody else in our friend group behind their back, and just became best friends. C: Yeah. I mean… not, gossip. I think when you say “talk about them behind their back” it makes it sound like we were gossiping about people. And I think we were just talking about like what they had going on in their life. Not drama, just in general— K: Yeah. C: —because how everybody came to De Anza was so different. K: Yeah, because the one friend who was failing econ was actually high-school age… C: Right. K: …and De Anza has a really great program for high-school students who are struggling. In their junior year of high school, they can transfer to De Anza and get their high-school diploma while earning college credit. C: Right. And as soon as I found out that, that ended that eye crush. (K laughs) K: Which made me respect you so much. C: Uh-huh. K: That was one of the things that I like really respected you for was that just knowing someone’s age made them not attractive to you. And a lot of people don’t have that, and so I really admired and respected your integrity and your moral substance. Because I did view our friend as a child, and when they would hang out with us they would ask “Hey, can… is it okay if I drink? Can you slip me some alcohol?” and I was always like, “no. I’m not contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Just, nope.” C: Yeah, I remember going to the movies with her and some other people, and we were all ordering margaritas, and we ordered her a Shirley Temple. K: Yep. C: And then when she complained we ordered her a second one. K: (laughing) Yes! C: And she drank them ’cause she liked them. K: Yes, she did! But she was so pissed off at us for that. C: Yeah, but I think part of the reason she hung out with us, and you know she could always write and say it was wrong is because we didn’t treat her like she was grown. Because I know growing up being treated like somebody who was grown, that was too much responsibility for me. K: But we also didn’t condescend to her. We treated her as a friend. C: That’s what I’m saying. But we didn’t, like, expect her to know everything, and I think we treated her as a friend but also with boundaries. K: Yeah. Nobody ever had sex with her. Nobody gave her drugs. Nobody gave her alcohol. C: Right. Yep. K: Yeah. So I think we were a safe space. C: Yes. K: Because some of the other people that she was hanging out with at the time, I didn’t feel like were a safe space for her. C: Right. K: But I don’t want to go into that, because that’s her story, not ours. C: Yeah. K: So, we became friends, and we became best friends, and we were spending all of our time together. C: Well, it was pretty easy because I had a 7 a.m., well, 7:30 a.m., class K: Yeah C: and like a 4:30 p.m. class, so I spent most of my day on campus, because I lived pretty far away, so you know going back home between classes just wasn’t realistic. And I think your situation was pretty much the same. You had some early morning classes, some afternoon classes. And so we’d spend every time that neither one of us had class just hanging out. K: Yeah, and I didn’t always go to class. So— C: Yeah, I know. K: —we spent all of those times hanging out. C: I know. That was horrifying to me. I mean, the irony of that with me having skipped econ every day…. K: Yes! C: But I asked the instructor. (K laughs) I said “I already know this stuff, can I skip class?” K: Yes. C: And they said “Yes, but if you fail the test you’re going to fail the class.” and I said “I’m willing to live with that.” K: Yeah. And so I remember we became fast friends, and then I remember when we started sleeping together and when we told our friend group, everyone was like “No. You guys are not,” and I’m like “We are! We’re sleeping together.” C: Oh yeah. Yeah. K: Because we weren’t actually a couple, we were just sleeping together. We were friends with benefits at that point in time. C: Yep. K: ‘Cause I feel like we were polyamorous and I had kind of a messy relationship that I had been trying to get out of for a year, and you were married to someone else. C: I was. But I had moved out. K: Yes. Because I was like, “You have to move out, I’m not going to be anybody’s mistress,” when I swy that okay, wait, this is going some place romantic. And I think it’s important to note that your wife knew that we were sleeping together because you guys had an open marriage. C: Yes. K: And I was sleeping with quite a few people, and everybody—while they didn’t know your name—they did know that someone new had, uh, “joined the team,” so to speak. (Both laugh) K: Because I was so… I’ve been very open that I’m pansexual and that means that I don’t… that I’m not attracted to genders, I’m attracted to people. That’s what it means for me. It might mean something for someone else. But pansexual for me means that I’m attracted to people, not genders. And it also means that I enjoy sleeping with couples. And I enjoy group sex activities. And so I had a couple couples I was seeing and I also had a couple singles I was seeing, and you were very aware of that when we started hanging out together. C: Yeah, I was aware of it when we were friends. And I think that one of the reasons that we became a couple, and that we started sleeping together before we became a couple, was that I never judged you for it. K: Well, I didn’t care whether or not people judged me. I’ve never cared. I’ve always felt like people are going to judge me. C: Yeah. K: And I just have decided a long time ago to not care. C: Well, I just felt like that was your life and your business, and you were choosing to share it with me, but I didn’t feel any particular ownership. K: Yeah, and I feel like if who I sleep with is none of your business unless you’re sleeping with me— C: Right. K: —and I always practiced safe sex. And I got regular STD screenings and all of that to be safe, and I’m very very happy that I don’t have any STDs, and I was very happy that you don’t have any STDs, because I also asked my partners to get regular STD screening. C: Right. K: Because it’s interesting that I was polyamorous but also a little bit of a germophobe. C: Yes! K: And I’ve always been like really afraid of HIV, because I grew up in the 80s and lost a lot of friends to that, and I’ve always been terrified of herpes. Like, I don’t want to get herpes. Now that I’ve grown and matured, I think there are worse things in like that can happen than getting herpes, but when I was sleeping with a lot of different people, those were the two big ones that I was most concerned about contracting. C: Yeah. Well, and I, and just, you know, I know it’s early days yet in the podcast, but just in case anybody starts lusting after us— (K laughs) C: We are now monogamous. K: That is so funny to me. I really don’t think anyone’s going to start lusting after us. C: Well, just in case. We’re monogamous and have been for a very long time. K: Yeah, ’cause I’m going to be 50 this year. I feel like the time for people lusting after… I’m 50. I’m married, I have an adult child. C: Wow, you actually are going to be 50 this year. K: Yeah, I know I’ve been calling myself 50 for three years. C: No, you’ve been calling yourself 50 for seven years. K: Oh, God, no… I didn’t start calling myself 50… I think 44, I started calling myself— C: 43 you started calling yourself 50. K: Really? C: Yeah K: That’s not how I remember it. C: Because I’m 43 now (K laughs), and you were like “43 is closer to 45 than it is to 40, and once you’re 45, you’re 50.” K: Yes. Because I like the gravitas of 50. C: (laughing) Yes. K: I just do. And I have gray hair now, so I don’t feel like I’m “past it,” I just feel like I don’t carry myself in a way that inspires lust. Because I have like basically the same clothes every day. I don’t wear makeup. My hair is up in a bun. I always wear jeans and a tank top and a button-down shirt over that, and I like look the same. And I’m more into being a therapist C: Right. K: than I’m into being a sex object, so I think I kind of work very hard to not be sexualized. And because of my history and because I used to be a sex worker, I really value not having a sexualized persona now. So that’s why I was laughing. Like, I’m actually working to prevent that. So… C: Well, yeah, and I imagine that’s probably helpful with not getting the transference, if that’s what it’s called, from your clients as well. K: Yeah. C: You don’t, you don’t want that attraction from them. K: Well, I have a very, very strong belief and view that for me to have sex with a client, for me, my understanding, my education informs me that that would be rape. Because they can’t truly consent because of the power dynamic. C: Right. K: And so I have had clients develop crushes on me, and I’m very clear to them, and we unpack it, we explore it, we talk about it, and usually by the end of the conversation they no longer have a crush on me. C: Yep. K: Because I do talk. Um. Because I am sex positive and kink positive and sex-worker positive, sometimes sex is a big part of the conversation. And working with couples, sex is usually a big part of the conversation. So, in talking about sex with me, sometimes my openness and my acceptance can cause a spark of attraction— C: Right. K: —And then we explore and explore how acceptance shouldn’t, for me, acceptance shouldn’t lead to attraction. You shouldn’t be attracted to everyone who accepts you. And there’s usually something deeper going on there. So, yeah, I work really hard to not be a sexual entity anymore. And I’m so in like my mom space, and my wife space, and… C: Your professional space. It’s just not… K: Yeah, my life is so about other things now. C: It’s not something you share with the world anymore. K: Correct. And so to me, when like people are attracted to me, I’m like “no, there’s something else going on.” (both laugh) K: “It’s not that you actually want to have sex with me. There’s something else going on. It’s an emotional thing, rather than like actually wanting to have sex with me.” So I think that the history of us, I really love our history, and I really love that… because you’re a member of the ACCJ, and one of the ACCJ members said that we’re in the… C: …in the “cupcake phase.” K: And I love that! C: Yeah, so I was at a barbecue, a fall barbecue, and he’s married and he was talking to—he was hitting on—some of the women there K: Which is such a tragedy to me. C: Yeah. And he said “Well, and there’s Chad. Chad and Kisstopher they’re still in the cupcake phase of their marriage.” (K laughs) And so now, yes, yes, that’s right. We are in the cupcake phase. K: Yes, we are happily happily married. And I think it’s because our marriage, as hokey and corny as it sounds, I really did marry my best friend. C: Yes. K: And there have been times when our friendship, in our marriage with it being, you know we’re two decades in, there have been times in the marriage that it was the friendship that kept the marriage going. C: I think so. I mean, ’cause, I mean, I almost never talk about her, but my first wife I felt like I was intellectually compatible with, but we weren’t really friends in the way that you and I were friends. K: Yeah. C: And so it barely lasted a year, that marriage. And, you know, I wish her well, but I haven’t talked to her since we got divorced. K: And my first wife, because yes, I was married to a woman before, umm, you and I got together, but she was not my most recent relationship. In my first marriage I feel like there were some serious compatibility issues. We were together five years, but we were only married for one. And it wasn’t legal, but… we were married in Reno, and at the time, because she had a mustache and goatee, they didn’t look at the gender on her driver’s license, and they issued us a marriage license and we were able to get married. C: Oops! (K laughs) K: So it wasn’t… it was legal, but it wasn’t legal, so when we tried to get a divorce and all of that, they were like… C: Yeah, when you and I got married we asked the lawyer who was handling my divorce, like what do we do about yours. K: And she was so confused. C: She was like, “It was never legal, so there’s nothing to do.” K: Yeah. And my ex never… I did actually serve my ex with divorce papers that they never signed. C: Yeah. K: So… that marriage wasn’t legal, so we didn’t really go through a divorce, and we’re still, we’re still friends. C: Yeah. K: We’re still friendly. I don’t know if we’re friends. If you’re listening to this, you owe me an email. (both laugh) K: But I still have, just, a lot of love in my heart for them and you get along with them really well. C: Yeah. Yep. K: So, but my most recent ex before we got together, it was very tumultuous and painful and so it’s so confusing because I went from. So, to make it less confusing, I was with a woman for five years, and I kind of have a habit of switching genders in between relationships. C: The gender of your partner, right? K: Yeah. (laughs) Yeah, the gender of my partner, not mine. And I was with a man, and we were together for five years, and then at the end of that relationship is when I started being polyamorous and dating lots of couples and just living my best life because I didn’t want a relationship after that because it was really painful and twisted and bad. Who we were when we were together was just toxic. It was just a sad, toxic relationship. C: Yeah, and I think that’s… and that just makes me think that I love being in love with you and I love being married to you, but I don’t think that you can’t… let me not do the double-negative thing. I think you can have a rich and fulfilling life being single. K: Yes, I do, too. C: And I think you can have a rich and fulfilling life having kids or not having kids. K: I do, too. C: So, yeah, I… but you were saying? K: (laughs) Did you lose your train of thought? C: I did. I did. K: Okay. So I felt really happy and fulfilled in what I was doing and so when we met I wasn’t looking for a relationship but I think I low-key was. C: Mmhmm. K: Because I had did that, um, there was this thing going around on the Internet and, at that time, it was right when email had just started, and I got a chain letter in the email that said “fill this out, and then send it to ten people,” and the thing that you were supposed to fill out was who the person of your dreams was. C: Right. K: And, interesting to me, and this is what caused us to get together, is when we were sitting in the cafeteria at De Anza and I was reading my list, and I looked up and you jokingly said that you were my list. C: Yes. K: And when I looked up, it felt like I was looking at you with completely fresh eyes, like the veils were taken off my eyes. Because the #1 thing that I had on my list was “dark chocolate.” (C laughs) I wanted, like, I wanted a man that was so dark that his skin was purple. C: Uh-huh. K: Like so black he’s purple. And, so, for me, I just, I was really focused on having an African-American partner. And I hadn’t considered non African-Americans for partnership. And I had been with non African-Americans before, and I’d been with African-Americans. I was equal opportunity. I had just always assumed that my life partner would be Black. C: Right. K: And, when you said, “hey, that list describes me,” I was like, “Snap. It does.” And that’s when your race was no longer an issue for me in terms of dating. C: I remember that. K: (laughs) And it was a lot of, I had to do a lot of work, and education, because I had dated white women, but I had never dated a white man. And so it was surprising and interesting to me how, like, I thought I understood dating white people because I had dated lots of white girls. C: Right. K: But dating a white guy is so different. And I had slept with lots of white guys. But I have never actually coupled with… C: Uh-huh. K: …and had a relationship with a white guy. But there was just so much stuff you didn’t know. C: Well, I mean, I think the family that I met, because I met a lot of your family, but it was all on your dad’s side. K: Yeah. C: So, and you know your dad’s side is African-American and Black and Indigenous, and there’s a lot of different mix on that side. K: Yeah. And European. C: But I didn’t ever meet anybody from your mom’s side. I still haven’t, to this day, met anybody from your mom’s side. K: Because we’ve never been to Alabama. C: Right. K: They’re all in Alabama. C: So when I met you, you were like, you know I think it was like three or four months after we met, you finally said something to me about “Why don’t you ever ask me like what ethnicity I am?” K: Yes. ‘Cause you’re one of the few people in my life that haven’t asked me what my ethnic background is. Because being multi-racial, usually people will ask me “What are you?” And I always think, “I’m human.” C: Mmhmm. K: I’m human. I’m a woman. I’m human. What do you mean? And I usually make it uncomfortable for them because I wish people would get to know me, because I feel like if you get to know me, then all of that history will come out when it’s relevant. C: Right. And I always find that interesting because I see people ask you, “Where are you from?” and you’re like, “I’m from California.” “Well, but where are your parents from?” K: Yeah. C: And you’re like, “Oklahoma.” “But but where are you…” and then it’s fun for me to cut in with “Yeah, no, she’s like American from the way back. But me, my grandma came from Norway and both my grandpas came from England.” K: Yeah. C: So, you know, I’m second-generation American from three of my four grandparents. K: Yeah, and so they find it really frustrating, and I wish people would just be honest that they want to know what my ethnic background is. C: Yep. K: And, so I don’t… sometimes it bugs me, and sometimes it doesn’t. It just depends on my mood that day. C: Yeah. K: And the fact that you had never asked me was really, really nice for me. Because, interesting enough, on the list of what I wanted in a man—because I did want it to be a male partner, at that time I had decided that I wanted my life partner to be male—and so for me one of the things that was really important was that he had to love my hair. C: Mmhmm. K: Because I have really curly hair, and one of the partners I had before, I had straightened my hair for New Year’s Eve, and it was just for New Year’s Eve, I don’t like straightening my hair, and they would just complain and complain that I never straightened my hair. And she drove me nuts with that. Like, I stopped seeing her because of that. (C laughs) Like, she asked one too many times why don’t I straighten my hair, and I was like okay, I’m done with you ’cause you’re annoying. And I had a couple that I had stopped seeing because they were in love with my curly hair, like, so when people would become obsessed with my hair, it felt like they were fetishizing my hair. C: Exoticizing you? K: Yeah. And I just didn’t like it. And the fact that you didn’t was refreshing for me. Because this is happening on both sides of the fence with all the different races that I was dating, and I was dating a melting pot of people. So even African-Americans, people with Latin history, people with Asian history, people with Caucasian history, just all the different races were always obsessed on my skin color, my eyes, and my hair. And I just. ‘Cause I have hazel eyes, and so sometimes they look green, sometimes they look blue, and just fixating on those things. And you never did. C: Well I think, maybe because I’m autistic or I don’t know why, I’m just not a very visual person. So, like the, I, when we met, I thought you were good-looking, but that was not a factor in my attraction to you. It was our conversations. It was our friendship that made me attracted to you. K: Yeah. C: And so I, I just, when my friends met you they were like “Wow, she is smoking hot!” (K laughs) K: Thank you! C: Yes. You know. “How are you guys getting together?” K: But all of my people thought you were incredibly hot. And I think you’re smoking hot, too. C: Thank you. K: I’ve always thought you were incredibly handsome. And your facial hair is just absolutely stunning. C: Thank you. K: Yeah, it’s stunning. C: I often see people stunned by it (K laughs) walking down the street. K: It’s so funny now because I was totally impressed with your beard when we first met. C: Oh, yeah, pictures of it now, it’s like “That patchy little thing?” K: Yeah! So because it was like, it did cover your entire jaw but it wasn’t like Beard. I feel like now you have a capital-B Beard. C: Yeah, I got somebody telling me, for the first time, like a month ago that “You’ve got a ZZ Top beard”, and I’m like, “I’ve arrived.” K: Yeah, but I don’t think you have a ZZ Top beard. It’s only midway down your chest. C: Yeah, and this is probably as long as it ever gets. It tends to fall out. K: Yeah, it breaks off, so. You’re not getting a ZZ Top beard. C: See, I knew you weren’t going to let me have it. (K laughs) K: No, that’s Mother Nature not letting you have it. That’s your genetics. ‘Cause your beard breaks off. C: So, and when we met I had long hair. K: Yeah, you did. C: So, I think this is a funny story. When we met I had long hair, but I was balding. I’d been balding since I was 14. K: No, I think maybe 16? C: No, you’ve seen the pictures. From 14. K: Okay, I thought you were 16 in those pictures. C: No, some of them I’m only 14. K: Okay. C: So, I’ve been balding since I was 14, but I had long hair, and I had a pony tail. K: Which I did not like. C: Yeah. I also had a convertible. So I was always combing my hair, just like ripping through it. And that horrified you. And you said “You should shave your head.” Oh, and I had dyed my hair red! I forgot about that. K: Yes, your hair was red. C: I forgot about that. Because I only ever dyed it once in my life. I dyed it red just before I started, just before we met. And I said “Well, okay, if ten people tell me they think I’d look better bald, then I’ll let you shave my head.” K: Yes. C: And I think it took you like a day to find ten people. (both laugh) K: Yes. I would just ask people “Wouldn’t he look good bald? Don’t you think Chad should shave his head?” Yeah, and then I shaved your head. C: Yeah. K: And it’s so so funny, to me, the funniest thing that ever happened when we were getting together was when you drove over to my ex’s house and they rode up on a bike… C: Yes! K: So do you want to tell the story? C: No! K: Okay, so they rode up on a bike and they came up and they were like “Who the fuck are”. We shouldn’t cuss. “Who the f are you?” ‘Cause we want to have like a G-rated. “Who are you? What are you doing here?” All of this, and like, banging on your door, and you got out of your car and they rode away. C: Okay, but wait, so you want to have a G-rated, even though we’re going to talk about sex work and all of that kind of stuff? K: (laughing) Okay, yeah, I don’t think we’re going to be able to have a G rating. But I’m trying not to curse. C: Okay, okay. K: I’m trying not to curse, but that one came out. I don’t know, ’cause I haven’t decided yet. Are we cursing, or not? C: Yeah, I think we are, but you know I’m not a gratuitous curser. K: Yeah. C: I always have a reason when I do it. (K laughs) K: And I’m a gratuitous curser. C: Yeah. K: The F word is like my favorite word. C: So between the two of us we’re probably average. K: Yeah. There you go. C: Yeah, so he rode up on his bike, and I was waiting outside with another friend of ours… K: Yeah. C: And, he was like “Who are you? I’m gonna kick your ass,” and, like… you know I’m six inches taller. A hundred pounds heavier. And, the person I was with, a woman, is… 6’2″? 6’3″? K: No, I don’t think she was 6’2″. C: She was at least 6’2″. K: Really? C: Yeah. K: Okay. C: Yeah, she’s at least 6’2″ K: With a black belt C: With a black belt in Tae… like, K: …and enjoys violence. C: And enjoys violence. Enjoys telling people. K: Yeah. Enjoys stomping a fool. C: Yeah. I want to tell a brief story. K: Okay. C: We’re not going to say her name. But she had come over to my apartment (K starts laughing) to hang out, she’d come over to my apartment to hang out, and I had plans later, so I wasn’t going to be able to drive her home. This is when I was driving, before I got diagnosed with epilepsy and they said “well, you know, we’re not going to take your license, but if you get in an accident and you hurt somebody, you’re going to jail for murder because you know that you shouldn’t drive.” K: Yeah. C: Which I thought was totally irresponsible of them. But, so she had called a taxi to take her home. And then, my plans fell through, so I was like “I could drive you home.” So we’re walking to my car, and the taxi pulls up. Doesn’t know what she looks like. Doesn’t know who they’re looking for. (K laughs) And she says “Hey, I don’t want you anymore!” And the taxi driver gets upset. And she says “Don’t make me snatch you through that window and break you in half!” K: Yes. But interestingly enough, it was that event that made you decide you couldn’t be with her. C: Yes. K: Because there was five of us girls in the group, and each one of the girls wanted to partner with you. C: Yes. K: And I waited until you went through all of them. C: So, by “went through” you mean rejected. K: Yes. C: Because I… K: You didn’t sleep with any of them. C: No. K: If you had slept with any of them, I… we wouldn’t have gotten together because for me I just don’t like sleeping with people my friends have slept with unless it was a group sex activity. C: Yep. (both laugh) K: Unless it happens at the same time. C: Which, not saying who, but some of them wanted to try that. K: Yes, and so, because I remember calling you up when you were in a business meeting and saying “Hey, do you want to have a threesome this weekend?” (both laughing) C: Yes. K: And you were like, “Umm, I’m in a business meeting,” and I was like “Yeah, okay, whatever but do you want to have a threesome this weekend?” C: Now, I would say “Let’s discuss this later.” Which means it’s probably what I said then, because I haven’t changed very much in my responses. K: Yeah, you did say “let’s discuss this later,” and then when we talked about it, the third person who was supposed to be the third chickened out and was like no, they didn’t want to. And so I was like “okay,” and so the reason they had asked me to ask you if you wanted to have a threesome is because they were afraid to find out whether or not you were sexually attracted to them. C: Right. K: Because they were really insecure. And then when they found out that you were attracted to them, they just did a bunch of really … I felt shady things. C: Mmhmm. K: In terms of having you go shopping and buy them things and, a lot of stuff that made you feel not good about partnering with them. So it was interesting to me to watch everybody kind of burn their bridges with you. C: Yep. K: And, it was also very comforting to me emotionally to watch people burn their bridges with you. And just see what I think of as your sexual integrity. C: Mmhmm. K: In terms of just not sleeping with people you don’t like. C: Right. K: And, to be clear, I was sleeping with people I didn’t like at the time, so I felt like you had better sexual integrity than I did. And it made me really start to reflect and think about, you know, who I was sleeping with. C: Mmhmm. K: And why am I sleep with them if I don’t enjoy their company? C: Right. K: And I really just, for me, I feel like I became a better person with more self-respect through knowing you. C: I feel like I’ve had that for myself, too. I feel like now than I was when we met. K: Yeah, and so to me that’s the story of us. Is that I’m a much better person now than when we met, and that’s for knowing you. C: That’s nice! Yeah, and I feel like that’s why the story continues. Because I think I’m going to continue to become a better person. K: I think I feel the same way. C: Because I’m not perfect. A lot of people tell me I am. K: I think you’re perfect. C: Right. K: I tell you you’re perfect all the time. You ain’t gotta change a thing. C: But I know that part of what I value so much in our relationship is that the wedding vow that we made to each other, which maybe we’ll tell the story of our wedding another time because it’s funny, I think— K: Yeah, it is. C: —But the wedding vow that we made to each other is that we would always continue to grow and change. K: Yes. C: It wasn’t “love, honor, and obey”, it was that we would always grow and change, and that we would always treat each other as a friend. K: Yes. And I feel like we’re still doing that today. And I feel like we did that during the hard years. Because we did have some hard years in our marriage. C: Yeah. K: And so, for me, I’m grateful that you stuck around through the hard years. C: I’m grateful you stuck around, too. K: Yeah, I’m happy. I’m happy here and now, baby. C: Yeah? (both laugh) Me too, I’m happy here and now. And we hope that you are happy here and now, listening. K: Yes, we hope all our listeners are happy here and now, living their best life. C: And come back next week for more. K: Yep, talk to you then. C: Bye-bye.

K  So lately, I’ve been thinking about post holiday life in the US versus Japan and actually, this was on my mind a lot last month, but we never got around to talking about it is so completely different. And I find that I’m bicultural, in my expectations, are you bicultural and your expectation, C  I’m not quite sure what that means, because I feel like the holiday ends and then you go back to the rest of life. K  So I feel like that too. But when the holiday ends, I feel it’s so different. Because in Japan, technically, all of the businesses like the holiday ended on January 3, but I’m looking at a calendar right now. So the holiday ended January 3 was a Monday, officially on that Monday in Japan. And then supposedly everybody was supposed to be back at work by the fourth. And they did go back to work. But most companies didn’t actually acknowledge they were back to work. And so a week later on the 10th, because they use from the fourth to the seventh, as a way to deal with all of their backlog. And so they just marked themselves as closed a lot of places. C  I feel like this is the fourth synchronization of vacation, which happens in most countries, too, because only the 31st on the first are actually holidays. Yeah. So I feel like they can make people burn at least one of their 10 days of annual holiday by saying we’re not coming back, you have to take holiday. So not every company does that. But I think that’s part of it, too. Like, we don’t want you taking vacations at convenient times, because that’s what I’ve noticed about Japan is there are the holidays. And yeah, you should not take any time off. At other times. K  I feel like the yes is the same. And again, this is a really, I feel really classist conversation. Because for me, I didn’t take any time off during the holidays. I tried to write, but no matter what business I start, matter what business I run. People want things from me during those days are supposed to be holidays. And even people knowing that I was hospitalized earlier in the year. And even people knowing that I was hospitalized, they were still emailing me for things. And they thought they were being really considerate in the email, and saying, You don’t have to read this now. And I hope you take time to take care of yourself. But just in case, you would like to take care of me while you’re in the hospital. Here’s all the information you need to do so. And I was like, okay, so this really isn’t thoughtful. Yo, if your email, if I tweet that I am in the hospital, you don’t have to acknowledge that you’ve ever seen that tweet. But if you send me an email, acknowledging that, you know, I’m hospitalized, and you’re going to be so gracious, let me decide whether or not I deal with it. That’s just you telling me that you feel anxious about something, and you want me to take care of your anxiety, C  or your email scheduling system works schedule that email. K  Right. And so I get it. And I usually just address whatever it is, even if I’m in the hospital, which is like a really bad habit, I really shouldn’t be working when I’m hospitalized. I really shouldn’t. But as anyone knows, when you have a chronic illness, and you spend more time in the hospital, you have to work anyways. And I think that’s bled into my understanding of holidays as well. Like, I don’t understand if something needs to launch at the beginning of January. How can I take the last week of December off? I don’t get it because people think that everything can be scheduled. And that’s not the case of button has to be pushed at the bare minimum, right? A button has to be pushed. And before anything goes out, it has to be proof read and like there’s all these so it’s not just pushing a button. So I feel like for me holidays are are just annoying. Gosh, they are so post holiday. Like even into February. I’m annoyed the fact that there was a two week holiday C  season. I got three weeks off this year, which that was yummy. Yeah, that was yummy for you. Yeah. K  It was so yummy. C  It was nice for me too. But I think anybody who wanted anything from me in that time when I worked a couple of hours. You worked a couple of days. Across three weeks that is so much less than I usually do. Correct, but you still worked. But the number of emails that I got over the holidays, my holidays was about 10 that weren’t automated, I got a bunch of automated emails. K  So I wonder at what level you have to be to actually take the holidays off. Because working minimum wage, I always work on holiday on holidays. Yeah, me too, always. And then when I was working for above minimum wage, when I was in the service industry, we’ll call it, I always work, holidays. And then when every time so I went from that to be a regular employee, where I was about middle class on the weights I was making, when I was working for ABC. And I technically had holidays off. But I did get called in sometimes during the holidays, to help families with their kids. And then so then I didn’t really get holidays off. And then I started my own business. And since then, I’ve always had my own businesses. And I’ve never been able to get time off during the holidays, because someone has to be on call during those times for the businesses to run smoothly, no matter what business I own. And I always feel like that person should be me. And I have to admit, a couple of employees had to work over the holiday, they weren’t able to take the time off. Because things came up. They didn’t have to work every single day. Right. But they had to work one or two days. So who’s getting a solid two weeks off? I wonder C  bank employees and government workers? K  Yeah, when I worked because I did work at a bank for a while. You’re right. So it’s a bank holiday? C  It’s a bank holiday? Yeah. I think it’s about whether your consumer facing and if you are consumer facing but the other. The consumers you’re facing are also in business. It’s about whether they’re consumer facing and whether you’re providing some need to them. K  What does consumer facing? What are you saying C  when I moved to California in 1995? So before some of our listeners were born, K  and you were only 19 You’re still a teenager? When you move to California, C  I was 20 when I moved there. Thank you very much. Because I moved late in the year I’d have my birthday. K  So you moved right before the New Year? C  I moved right before the new year. Yes. I feel like there’s K  a lot of fun going on here trying to act Rome. Yeah. He’s trying to ground your ground now. But you weren’t run then. C  So holidays were one of the few days that I didn’t work. When I started in the software industry. I worked weekends, I worked nights I worked mornings. I work days, but I didn’t work holidays, because nobody else around was working. K  Oh, that’s interesting. I always assumed you did. I’m learning something new about Jad. Yes, it’s so awesome. is one of the reasons why we love doing the podcast, we learn new things about each other. I didn’t know that you had holidays off. I had C  holidays off. Wow. I was working 70 hours a week. Yeah, other weeks. But I had holidays off. K  So is it that sort of because I kind of had holidays off when I was working for Applied Behavior consultants. And so like there’s a whole thing, I don’t think they’re a good company. What everything they taught me was bad. Except for the differential diagnosis courses that they had me take those who are on point. But I don’t believe in behavior modification the way that they they do it. C  But you’re still working for them when I met you. Yeah, I was. And you didn’t work on school holidays. If you worked with the kids at school? K  Yeah, but I still so I guess teachers also get the holiday off. But every teacher I’ve known during the break, they have to go in for in service days. Yeah. So they only get part of the holiday off. And then they have a parent for the school year C  to do homework and grading and such. And when I was teaching, I was like, Nah, I’m not going to prep any lessons outside of my work time. That’s not true. Why are you lying? No, that’s true. But I only worked part time. So I guess still not true. Yeah, I guess I was there all day. And I taught two classes. So I had lots of prep time. K  And then there were still experiments that you were doing at home to see if they would work. C  Yeah, that’s true. So but I think about all the teachers who gave us homework over the Christmas break. Yeah, who were like, here’s 50 hours of work to do over the next two weeks. And that felt like they were just mad. They weren’t working. K  Yeah, I feel that way too. But most of the teachers that we know here in Japan are bitter. And most of the teachers that we knew in the US were also bitter. Yeah. So we haven’t we only know like two or three teachers that weren’t burnout and weren’t bitter. So this kind of gives us a nice segue into like the difference in the US. And in the US. I find that the US starts work as soon as they’re back. to work, they announced that they’re back at work, right and that they’re open for business, but then make you wait. And so this is when I was talking about being bicultural. For me, I find that annoying. So I feel like don’t front, you’re not really open for business because I can’t ask you for anything. And I find this as really true of teachers at the PhD level, they are not ready to take on anything of mine. Right. So since we’ve come back from since we came back from the break their hat, they have not been responsive. Like they’ve responded in a way that says I’ve responded. So the clock stops on the response. taking any actions. C  I remember them being like, okay, submit this by the first of the year. Yeah. And then getting back to you late November, or late January rather late January. K  Yeah. So what was Why were you sweating me? Like, what was that about? C  Well, they were on vacation, even though the classes were still running. K  Yeah. And they do this passive aggressive thing, where, because by the rules of the university, they cannot ask me to work. But they said, Wouldn’t it be nice if that kind of thing where you know, like, if someone’s your boss and coach, and I say, Would it be nice if you work if you could work? On Saturday? Yeah, you know that they’re lucky asking you to work Saturday. And if you don’t, it’s like, I always have to think I’m like, is this worth burning Goodwill for? And like, because I was in the hospital, they just completely stopped responding to me, even though the expectation was I needed to work. So I felt like I was being double penalized for being hospitalized. I have to work while being in the hospital. But then I couldn’t do anything beyond what they beyond that, that would require interaction between the two of us, because both my chair and culture are obsessed with talking to me on the phone, and I don’t talk on the phone. So Riddle me this. How are you going to give me a talk on the phone? If I’m not in the hospital? I’m still not going to do it. You have to tell me, it’s the only possible way to do it, or that it is mandated by the university. And you’ll it’s not. So send me an email because I have really exceptional reading comprehension, despite being dyslexic. Because I’m not going to talk on the phone, because it messes up my whole sleep pattern. Yes. And can trigger insomnia, because after talk to them sometimes at midnight, and if the conversation goes from midnight to one, they think well, you could just go to bed after that. No, after that. My thoughts are racing based off what we talked about, and then be up till 6am At a minimum, which usually means up till 10am. And then I have to like go through months and months of trying to get my sleep, right. So I’m not doing that unless I have to I’m in Japan. C  So I feel like this is a thing that’s only recent, like 20 years ago, there were a few companies who outsource their call centers to India or whatever. Yeah, knowing that there was a huge time difference. But I feel like now, it’s kind of expected that you’ll work with companies wherever. And especially if you’re not in the US. I end up working with US companies a lot. And that means I have meetings at six or 7am. K  And I’m down with that. Right. But because of the time change, it will be super late for them. I think that’s all start doing. I’ll start making it convenient for me. Yeah. And not caring. Like if you want to talk to me, you can talk to me at 6am. My time, I’m willing to get up at 6am my time. I am not willing to get up earlier than that. Or we could do it by email. I’m fine either way, because I’m fine to put myself out for like, if it’s my oral defense, like, I’ll do that anytime. C  You’re done with that to be clear. Well, no, I K  did. My old defense might propose up to my old defense. My dissertation. Viva forte. Yeah. Yeah. Because I’m in Psych. Yeah. So and you did too, or? Yeah, I C  did. Yeah. K  I mean, they’re all defense of your proposal. Yes. Except you had to do that to be accepted. I didn’t have to do that. Yeah, that was right. There’s just different timelines. So for me, I wish that people would be at the individual level, I wish that everybody would understand their own capacity and say when they’re back from holidays or when they need time off, because I do something that absolutely drives people batty. And that is I will randomly drop it like it’s hot. I’m not available for these next few days. And they freak out because I’m really not available. And I will set a balance. I will set up. I will set my email. My email respond to that. Lets you know, I’m not joking. And, to quote the great Kennedy Davenport, no, that’s not curious Coco Montrese. I’m not joking, be it. So sorry, Coco. I am thinking about Kennedy fuck my drag, because that’s how I feel like everybody wants to fuck my vacation, fuck my time off, fuck my drag. And I’m like now I have to set a firm boundary and the boundary has to set so firm because people cannot help themselves that I have to set an email that tells them yo remember I’m I’m gone right now I’m no C  longer and like Mr. Rogers said look for the helpers K  is so annoying. I don’t mind being in a helping profession on on that regard or not. And and that kind of segues to like looking at the the meaning of the different meaning of the holidays. Because me yours. I’m so American when it comes to New Year’s I think of it as a time of reinvention. C  Yeah, the New Year’s think of it as everything as just a time to take a break, and then start again. So it’s different depending on where I’ve worked. So you’re like more Japanese, then? Yeah, it’s different depending on where I’ve worked. The company I work at now the fiscal year starts July 1, company I worked on for the fiscal year started April 1, okay, so it’s the end of the year for us because we have to do US tax things. But in every Japanese tax and Japanese tax things, but in every kind of work capacity, it’s not the end of the year from for me, it’s just a pause. It’s like a break after the busyness that was Black Friday and Cyber Monday and the whole shopping season. So I think that my view of it has changed as I have moved between industries and across different levels and things because when I was doing software, when I first started, it was oh, no, let’s get back to work. everybody’s forgotten what they were working on. Hurry up, hurry up, hurry up. And when I was, you know, in third, doing like, fast food and that kind of thing. I didn’t really get a break. It was K  nobody does right solidarity to everybody working fast food. I’m so grateful for my time. I feel like working fast food taught me how to get up and go to work. C  Yeah, me too. I start work at 5am. Like five to one was a great schedule for me. K  Because that’s the you know, you’re a good employee when you get the morning shift. right open. So proud of myself when I got the morning shift. That’s when you know that you’re on the the track to being a shift supervisor, to manager and all of that. C  Yeah, so I think I did three years and fast food, which isn’t that long, but I still remember it. And now that I’m in management of an area that doesn’t have external customers. It’s pretty flexible. Like the whole company didn’t have vacation, that would be inaccurate to say, because our customer service people were still working. Or warehouse people were still working all of that kind of thing. Yeah. But being an internal division that supports the other people who are the the office workers. Are they the kind shine to us that Japanese term of just generic office work? They weren’t working. So I was K  disappointed that using the Japanese term there for you. I think he liked saying it. It’s insane. A lot. C  It’s an interesting concept to me, because nobody says like white collar or blue collar or whatever. That’s not sad. Yeah. It’s are you like a company person? Or are you like, part time? So the people the grocery store generally aren’t considered kaisheng? Because they’re part time they don’t have a fixed salary. They’re paid hourly. They might not have job stability. K  We presume we don’t know any. We don’t know anyone who works at a grocery store. C  I am just presuming based on the ads that are always up for we’re hiring. And what they describe as the we’re hiring, okay. I don’t pay attention. But the factory workers are still high shine, even though they’re not really office workers. Yeah, but I find it interesting that that’s always company employee, not office worker, but it’s usually translated as office worker. K  I think it means company employee. It does. Yeah, I’ve seen I’ve translated both ways. And we’ve talked about before how Japanese does not translate to English. Yeah. So there’s I feel like chi sign means office worker and also means company worker, right. And the reason I company employee and the reason I think that is because they always ask Raska Are you an employee of a company? And he says yes, may say then your chi shine. Rasa doesn’t like that. Rasta wants the fact that he’s C  an interpreter. K  Yeah and interpreter to for that To be said, and in Japan, the reason he doesn’t say that he’s the head of publishing for cinnabar moth is so confusing to them. Yes. So he’s like I do interpretation because they can’t understand it. So he can only report his it’s a whole thing. I’m not gonna do that digression. And I’m not putting Ross’s business in the street like, yeah, C  no, it’s complicated. For me even even I have a regular job, but it’s not a Japanese company. So it was a whole range K  of now if you’re like a real employee of anywhere, right, really work anywhere. If you work virtually, I had C  to get a letter saying I was employed. Yeah. Which a Japanese companies that’s a regular thing. You just ask them for a certificate of employment. And K  I don’t feel like the certificate of them asking you for a letter is so strange. No, because in Japan, you get a certificate of employment when you work for a Japanese company. That’s right. Yes. I don’t think that’s where you need a letter. I feel like that’s just the culture, C  the discussion of whether or not that letter was valid, because they didn’t have an office in Japan to which I go was the interesting part. To me. They’re like, K  so what I do for that is I tell them that your company sells to took your hands. And then like, oh, okay, I was sharing the website. So I have them look at the website and then share that they sell it at Turkey hands. What do you do? C  I usually don’t deal with that. I used to let you deal with it. Be honest. K  We’ll talk but have you ever dealt with it on your own? Yeah. Do you have C  the revenue place? Yeah, I’ve had to deal with it on my own several times. Yeah. So what do you do? I have my employment contract. And I have a letter saying that I’m still employed. K  And we have a certified translation of it. So that’s important. I think what we were talking about, so there’s no like, elegant way to bring it back around. Like, what do you think of as the end of the year for you? Like, what does me years signify for you? So I felt it’s more like the, the Japanese? Yeah, New C  Year’s is kind of the mid year for me fiscally. Like, okay, this is happening. But you know, a lot has changed this year between 2021 and 2022. So I’m changing title changing pay, like, it really felt like a New Year this year. But a couple years ago, I had just started the job. So it felt like an interruption, where I wasn’t getting any better at my job. And then last year, it was a vacation. But then things went very sideways. Like, my boss quit and all kinds of stuff. So I feel like this is the first year that has just been time off. Yeah. And my main concern was, how are all the people who work in my team getting their time off? Some of them chose three weeks, and some of them chose two weeks. And that was kind of the extent of mine involvement with the holiday. K  Did you like the three weeks? I’ve only thought three weeks was a bit long. C  It was a bit long. I liked it. But it started to seem like, Okay, I feel like there’s gonna be things waiting for me and I, my memory is fading. Yeah, like if things aren’t on my mind. And so it was good. It took me about a week to fully relax, like, okay, it’s not gonna be disastrous for me to not be available. K  Yeah. And I find that was the mismanagement of your holidays. Yeah. And this year, we’re trying to do better on managing your time off and managing your holidays, so that it’s not so chaotic like that. And I understand that this is an executive issue. Because you’re an executive, you’re at your company. And for me, I look at the dichotomy between the two of us, I’m the owner, but I can’t manage my vacation times, I have to manage my workflow to see when there is time I can take off and then snatch it and claim it and announce it. And, you know, double check and triple check and send out message after message and confirmation after confirmation that I’m really not available this time. And I feel it feels very much the same with the hustle to get your shift covered if you want time off. Yeah, at minimum wage. So I look at that and I just kind of trip on it that I’m the owner, but it still feels very much like that minimum wage hustle. Where you have to, you know, see, Kim, Mary Beth, cover your chef. If Mary Beth flakes out, can Joe cover it. And you have to have like two or three people that are in line to cover your shifts and double check and triple check with them up until the day before you actually go take the time off and then disappear. Right because if something comes in on your death, you’d be like, this was scheduled every manager knew everything. employee you knew like, and then you have to justify it when you can, when you come back why issues weren’t handled by you if there was any issue with covering or shift, and I feel like this, I have to go through the same thing because it felt like, well, why didn’t this thing happen? Or why didn’t that thing happen? And with the press, I feel like would you have even promoted it? If it did? Like, what has it cost you? The check cleared, you’ve been paid. So I have to go gangster. Got your money and your money was right. Congratulations, you played yourself to have to go to my inner DJ Khalid, C  But I feel like you at least honor the letter of it. And I do, because my first job out of high school, my first full time job was at a place called the royal fork. And when I got hired there, I said, I don’t work Sundays. And they’re like, you don’t work Sundays, but most people work Sundays. I do not work Sundays. K  Yeah, I don’t work Sundays, and you gotta hold fast to that. Yeah. Everybody wants people to work on Sunday, because they don’t work Sundays, C  right? I don’t work Sundays. Not ever. Let’s put it in writing. And I don’t work Sundays. So I worked there a year. And then they were like, it’s Mother’s Day you’re working. And I said, I don’t work Sundays. And they said, but everybody’s working tomorrow. I said, I’m not I don’t work Sundays. Like you work tomorrow. You’re fired. I’m like, fuck yeah, I quit. Yeah, got another job. That didn’t work Sundays. K  I feel that it’s interesting to me. The difference between the two of us when we’re at the same level? Yeah. And so for me, and this is like, I’m checking my privilege and neckline recognizing my privilege, but I really can’t change it for the business to be successful. I think a lot of people think and we I talk about this all the time, I lament the pressure of being a business owner, but I am such a shitty employee, I have so much attitude, I have way too much tongue in my mouth. I am way too grand to be anybody’s employee. And this because like, if you’re gonna manage me, don’t manage me worse than I can manage myself. That’s my issue. And I have yet to meet to meet someone who can manage me better than I manage myself. Yeah. And that’s just it could be grandiose delusions, but I am so in my reality that that’s my truth. And my C  grandiose delusions, I have people work for me who are like, I want you to check in at least a couple of times a week, I want you to tell me what to do. And other people were like, tell me that goal. And leave me alone unless asked for help. In a nice way, K  you’re always you’re always upset that people want to be micromanaged by you like micromanaging. And I always tell you ask them, okay, I’m just gonna let go. And I’m like, ask them, Are they in the place where Jesus takes the wheel? And they’re like, No, we do not want Jesus take the wheel. We want you to take the wheel be in charge. Do your job manage me? C  Yeah. And I feel like they’re misunderstanding my job. But K  I like your job is to have meetings. C  Yeah. My job is mostly long term strategy stuff. And, and I think that’s where some of the difference in vacation comes in, is because I am very distant from people paying money to the company. I don’t personally make any of the products. I don’t ship any of the products. I don’t see the products. I don’t touch them. I don’t talk to the customers. I’m very, very distant from the actual money changing hands, reason and execution. K  It may seem weird that we’re talking about this in February. But the reason it’s been on my mind now and why I wanted to talk about it today is because I feel like both the United States and Japan see the new year as the solar New Year as a time for setting life goals, and a time for reinvention. And I’m in the process where I’m starting to apply my reinvention and I’m relaunching adjustment guidance. I guess I didn’t I was in flux with what to do about adjustment guidance. And I just, if y’all follow us on Twitter, you know that I’m a therapist at heart and I just cinnabar moth publishing is fabulous, but it’s just not fulfilling me and I feel like roster can take it over because the part of it that I do mostly is buying promote books and tweet and I don’t it’s not taking up as much of my time as I thought right my PhD knock wood is winding down and I’m looking at your finishing it not because you’ve quit Yeah, no cuz I’m finishing my PhD. I look at I’ve been doing my PhD and cinnabar moth publishing I look at I can do cinnabar moth publishing, and adjustment guidance and balance those two things. So I have I always have to have to work Three things that I’m doing are I feel really unfulfilled, and bored, I get bored really easy. And when I get bored, I just quit. And that’s not a good thing. So with my PhD, the stress of it and the pressure of it has kept me from feeling bored. Because I have deadlines. And so I’ve always been interested, and can I meet this deadline? Can I beat this deadline? And I like to play the game of can I beat this deadline. And we did it back when we were in the junior college. And we had those pilots. Yeah. And I was set deadlines and grades. And I like calculating things or like beating calculations. And my university has this thing when it’s the your PhD coach, and it tells you if you’re on track, and I love every time I finish something I can shave two months off. Yeah, estimated graduation date. C  I know you love that. And nobody minds. And that was the thing when we’re back at K  the official. Yes, it’s what is supposed to do is it supposed to pump beer and make you sweat yourself? And it doesn’t make me sweat myself. Because I’m on point like that. Then we’re back at DeAnza I’m sucking seated this up. So you would C  track your grades and you get to like, Okay, I don’t have to do anything more. And I have enough points to get an A, K  which would really be frustrating for my teacher. It would be like C  new rule. If you don’t turn these in you fail even if you would get an A K  Yes, we had a teacher that actually did that to me. Yes. Cuz I made the mistake of time them and I was like, I’m not gonna tell you. Cuz I, I would go in and go into teachers office hours and be like, Look, I have an A in your class. If I do nothing else, I’d like to stop attending. But I will still do the homework. And they’d be like, okay, and you’re like, That’s so unfair. I’m like, No, it’s not gonna talk to them. Yeah, they’re like, but the syllabus says, and I’m like, go negotiate your new adjusted syllabus for yourself. Like, do it. And you’re like, No, it’s it’s unfair to everybody who doesn’t know that they can do it. And I’m like, everybody’s not my problem. I’m trying to I’m trying to finish the course. Because I am bored of going to class. Yeah, I’m like, What are you going to do? I’m going to smoke cigarettes and drink coffee. What are you gonna do? I’m gonna go hang out in the library. I’m gonna go eat. Why do you care? So is there I’ve always been like really aggressive that way. And I find that being conceited makes it less aggressive. like to tell people I handle my business. Because I wrote the world. Yeah, it’s my world, and you’re living in it. But that made you angry. C  I think it’s about time ownership. The it’s my world. You’re living in it. I’m like, No, I live in my own world. But I think a lot of it a lot of holiday stuff is about time ownership. So Japanese companies like to own your time. K  They like to own you, yes, for life. But they don’t do lifetime guaranteed employment anymore. But a C  lot of the bigger companies have their company union. And that company helpfully negotiates that, okay, you get 10 vacation days, your first year by law? And then one additional day, every, every year that you work. Yeah. But then unions will be like, Okay, everybody is going to take these same 10 days off. Yes. And you don’t have a choice in it. So like, you don’t have any choice in how to use your vacation. And I’m finding that the company I work for at least is much more flexible. K  They’re the most flexible company I’ve ever come across. Because you can legit move a holiday that falls on a Wednesday to a Monday. Yeah. I’m sorry. I’d rather take Monday. I’m going to work that Wednesday. And I think that’s the joy of your position. I think so. And Mike and it doesn’t affect because it’s not company wide, right. specific to your team. Yeah, other people they have there is stricter. So like, I don’t know if it’s your company, or if it’s your position. And I feel like post holiday because all of your team took the holiday, there wasn’t this big crunch because it wasn’t just your team. It was the entire data sector, right. The entire technical sector of the company and operation sector of the company. Sections of the company took all of them took that time off. And some of them took even the week after. Yeah, so there wasn’t this big crunch. There wasn’t this backlog. And I thought that was really cool, because you were able to start work and just start work at a regular pace on your regular work week. So you didn’t from like Japan doesn’t find, but like America does. C  And I feel like a subtle thing that’s different with the Australian companies. And Australian housing too, is that things happen every two weeks. They mean, I get paid every two weeks, not twice a month, every two weeks. Yeah. And if you rent in Australia, you pay rent every two weeks. Not what not once per month, but every two weeks which Wait, K  wait, what are you talking about right? That is so strange to C  me. cuz February was always the month that I got screwed. Like, when I was an hourly worker. Yeah, February is tough because there were fewer hours, but I still had to pay the same rent. Yeah. But in Australia, they pay rent every two weeks. So Australia and Australia February is not any harder than me. K  Are you been serious right now? C  Yeah, I mean, completely serious. K  Okay. Chad told me a joke was that I believed and so now I’m like, Oh, he’s testing C  you know that soon. Other months that I have three paydays? Yeah, I did other months. You have three paydays? That’s because I get paid every two weeks. K  And rent is all I never took off a while. I’m just like, cool. So I’ve had my hands separate bank accounts, because in Japan, you can’t have joint bank accounts. So I don’t clock Chad’s money like that. And I have my own income. I make my own money. So because I make my own money, we just divided what we pay for. So I’m not tripping, like, do you have the money to pay for your stuff? And Chad’s like, yes. Do you have the money to save some money? And tell us like, yes. And I’m like, Cool. Yeah, we C  check in with each other. How are you doing? Like, K  yeah, like, I know, I know what’s in your account, you know, it’s in my account. I have act like I could use your passcode. And all of that. I could pick up your credit card and all of that. So it functioned in function, we shove a shared account. But in form, we have separate accounts. So I don’t pay attention to your paydays. As but I feel like you want me to pay more attention? C  No, I don’t want you to pay attention. Because I’m a contractor. I have to explicitly bill every two weeks. K  Yeah, and I don’t pay attention to remind and I feel like that’s what you want. You want support. In your billing, C  I get a reminder, they have a list. Everybody who has to bill gets an email K  all your other paperwork? Yes, different. Yeah. And that’s different. So I don’t have to do it. So I find that for me with reinventing myself this year, that I’m going to that I do the tradition of I set an idea of who I want to be after the New Year, I marinate on it for about August of so I marinate on it for about August of 2021. Right, I started thinking about who are you kissed for? What are you about? What are you doing? Get yourself together, you need to reinvent yourself, you’re stale. Because I get bored being who I am, I get bored of myself, I find myself to be very boring. And that boredom drives me to promote self growth and all of that. I think it is a really positive thing. I don’t think of it as a bad thing. I’m not advising you to think of yourself as stale. I’m just saying this is the thing that I do. And then I marinate like, what can I do? Because all of August, I’m like, it’s too hot, I can’t do anything. And then in September, I’m like it’s too hot. I can’t do anything. But I’m thinking about what could I do? I need to do something I’ve got to break out, I feel trapped. I got to break free. And then October happens. And I start thinking about what do I want? Yeah. Like, what are the things I want to do that I want to be able to do that I want to achieve? What are the goals I’m working for? Why do I even work? What do I need money for? Besides just living? Because everybody needs money to live? But how am I going to enjoy money? Is there any money to enjoy? How can I make money that I can enjoy. And I get really hyper focused on enjoyment. And that theme runs from October, November and December. And then December I get really like, you got to keep it down. We got to hold it down. The new year is about to start we have taxes. And I get hyper focused on taxes in December. I’m like completely obsessed with them. And then in January, all of that culminates into, okay, now I need to make a plan to improve myself so that I can be someone completely different by my birthday. Because my birthday is when I assess that I waste that year of life, or did I make the most of it? And what am I going to do with the next year of life? Am I going to waste it? Or am I going to make the most of it? And January, I do all of that work. So February I’m just pumped up full of pride from all of the work I’ve done because I can actually see all the work I did to self actualize. You’re C  gonna see everything you did up until, yeah, since your birthday. And then you can see your path beyond your birthday. K  Yeah, and so I’m not really conceited. I’m just proud of myself. Yeah, I’m feeling like super proud. And that’s the Post New Year on a personal level for me. And I find that it aligns well with the Japanese post new year and it aligns to the idealized version of the American New Year, right? Because I have a commitment to myself to make changes. But I don’t do what I think of are superfluous things. Like I don’t focus on weight. I don’t focus on smoking. I don’t focus on like, what Pulp Fiction, self help is or the popular self improvement. I look at, like, what are my core values? And what do I value not caring what anybody else thinks? C  Yeah, I find that you tend to start from what do I want? And then go to how do I get it? Rather than Who should I turn into to have everything that I want? I’m already that person. How can I manifest my dreams? Yeah. And I don’t use the word dreams. I K  don’t have any dreams. I have goals, right? And so that’s why I, I now like, I love like, if you haven’t watched the DJ Khaled hot ones episode, you have to watch it because it is the most gangster the most self assured hat ones ever. It’s legendary DJ Khaled taps out after two wings. So hot ones, is the show where people eat hot wings that get hotter and hotter. As they go on while they’re being interviewed. And DJ Khaled told him straight up, if the rule is that all these have to be eaten, you’re gonna eat them. And I was like, yes, thank you. I’m not eating them. I’m not gonna play myself. Like, I know my limits. This is as hot as I can take. I’m not embarrassed that I can’t eat any hotter ones. I’m not here to meet your expectations of me. Yeah, I’m not gonna look a fool on TV with, you know, crying and doing all of that. I’m not gonna do any of that. And so I have that, like, I’m not here to impress you. I’m here to be me and fulfill myself. C  And I think when you and I have done career coaching together when you’ve helped me with that, that’s been the thing that you’ve pushed me to do is like unshackle yourself from meeting other people’s expectations. Yeah, what is it you want? K  So what’s your post holiday? Deep culture? Post New Year’s thoughts and traditions? C  i It feels like, it’s time to grow. Like, I I started thinking about how many are you K  gonna accumulate mass? Like, It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia. Yeah, I C  might accumulate mass. No, I’ve been. I’ve had to save even K  what is Always Sunny in Philadelphia, the character Matt carrying around a bag of burritos. Because he was gonna accumulate mass and then workout and become really buffed. Yeah. I’ve had the same really funny season. C  I’ve had the same mass for the last 10 years. I feel like this is the mass that I have. Yeah. But it feels like, Okay, what am I going to do in the new year to learn? Where do I want to move to intellectually, socially, emotionally. And it’s not a resolution, it’s just an assessment of what’s the plan, because the end of the year feels like wrapping things up. So usually, when I get certifications, they happen in November, so and it’s very much tied to the season. Because I feel like I like to be done with things before the vacation, and then come back fresh and look at what’s next to do. K  So what do you all do? And I’m always interested in what people do for the new year, like what the New Year means to them, because I have such a strict meaning of it. And strict idea of what it is and what it’s supposed to be. And, and those types of things. And it’s sort of like, I believe it’s a mix of celebrating myself and moving towards the next celebration. And so February is always a really happy month for me, even though March is taxes, because I prepare all of our tax stuff in January, and that bogs me down. But it’s also a really good way to see like, did you come out on top last year financially, yes or not? Because you have to look at all of the money that you spent. So on one hand is it can be sticker shock, it can be like, Oh my gosh. And other times it could be like, Okay, I was on point. And this year, everything came into budget, everything worked out really well. Even with the closing the temporary closing of adjustment guidance. I’m really excited to be relaunching that and I’m really excited about where we are. And excuse me, I’m just happy. C  That’s a great place to be. K  Yeah. So I hope all of you are feeling happy. All of our music, beautiful music notes. We completely appreciate every each and every single listener, because it’s so awesome to be in the top 10 every week on player FM for podcasts about Japan, and that wouldn’t happen without you guys. So thank you so much for listening. And if you haven’t become a patron yet, think about it for three bucks, you get several years worth of stuff. So if you did three bucks, you can just completely binge listen to a whole bunch of take teas and there’s stuff to read and look at all the different incarnations of take to it. If you’re already and you can get Chad books for free, if you’re already a Patreon for me, thank you for following us on over to the take tea and I know we’re talking about this week. We’re talking about recovering from mistakes at the E zine because I’ve made a few. On that note, thanks for listening and we’ll talk to you next week. Bye bye

K  So lately, I’ve been thinking about things that surprised me about Japan and the United States. And I think most of them are like old traditions and either country, but just like, with the advancements of technology and everything, the world has changed a lot in the last 15 years. C  So they’re not things like whoa, people speak Japanese in Japan. K  Now, he talked about that before in the podcast, the first time I came to Japan, I was surprised by the homogeneity, I was surprised by like, there’s so many Japanese people in Japan, like it’s primarily Japanese people. C  I think it’s like 98.5%, you know, ethnic Japanese. K  But yeah, and so that doesn’t surprise me anymore. But coming from the United States, were in California, it was like he could see the entire globe basically, in the course of a day. And then coming to Japan, like that used to be surprising. It’s not surprising. Now, C  when I was in school, I noticed that too, there were 300 people in graduate school that I went to, and add them to were foreign. K  Yeah. And they make you take your picture together. Yeah. They’re like, here’s our definers. Take a picture together, because your foreign C  and I noticed that a lot at academic conferences, too. I got used to going to math conferences here in Japan. And it would be like, men, men, men, men, men, men, men, men, men, maybe one woman and higher foreign proportion than at McGill University, but still mostly Japanese people, or Japanese and Korean if we were having a joint conference, and then I went to the AMS conference in the US. It was like 40% women there is like, Yeah, I had forgotten just how unbalanced academia is here in Japan. So that surprised me to see the contrast because I just kind of gradually gotten used to it, because there’s not a lot of split that I see among foreigners. Yeah. In terms of gender split. K  What do you mean, there’s not a lot of I think there. Are you saying like, there’s as many foreign women in Japan, as there are foreign men? Yeah, C  I think roughly. Okay. K  I think so too. I think so too. I would agree with that. For me, that’s not something that’s shocking. I look at me bringing it back around. C  Well, I was mentioning K  something that I find surprising our generational differences. And something that I find surprising is that the generational difference expresses itself differently in the United States than it does in Japan. And for me, because I was so I’m of the age that when I was in high school, they were still using pay phones and pagers were like, the new and exciting thing like pagers were the latest iPhone. And C  I was five years behind you in school. And that was still the case when I was in school. K  Yeah. And then, and easing, you weren’t old enough for this. By the time you were in high school, you could use a public phone for 25 cents for a quarter. And when I was in school, one of the hot songs was here’s my number and a dime. Call me any time because you could use a payphone with 10 cents a phone, local phone call was a dime, 10 cents. Okay, the equivalent of roughly 10 yen. So, when I moved to Japan, we moved to Japan, public phones were still a big deal. So much so that there’s a whole chapter in the Japanese background starting Japanese where it talks about how to use a payphone in Japan. And then you can still see them around. We can C  see one from our window. Yeah. And I’ve used that before. I forget why. But I needed to use that I think our phone went out. And I need to call the phone company and find out where our phone went out. Yeah. And it was like $9 or something. Wow. Oh, no, that’s why I was calling international because we hadn’t set up international calling yet. Okay. And it was like $9 to make the connection than $1 a minute. K  So that is like a huge difference having to set up international calling. Yes. Versus now on cellphones. You can just call internationally. Yes. You don’t have to do anything special to set it up. It’s still as expensive. So we don’t recommend that you do it. I think for me a big change is having international Skype. Yes. And what I find strange about that, in particular, is that the US has really I feel like the US has really embraced zoom. And I think the prior to everything all the madness of 20 20 and 2021 that people weren’t really into Skype or zoom. I feel like people are more into Skype. I feel like zoom hotton. Really? Yeah, come up yet. So now I’m surprised at how many because WhatsApp was, yeah was the thing that everybody wanted to connect with me on. I don’t have a cell phone, so I can’t connect by whatsapp. C  But I put it on my phone, which had like, seven gigabytes of free memory. And a day later my phone was like I’m full. Yeah, what bag? I had to delete it. K  Yeah, so everyone in my family uses WhatsApp. Yeah. And we’re in Japan. So we use line. Yes. And I’m surprised to see the inroads that line is making in the United States. That’s really surprising to me. Because it’s sort of like Skype and zoom, where like Skype had decades to like, catch up to zoom. And then zoom just blew them out of the water. And I think the difference between a Skype call and a zoom call, I really do think it’s the putting a highlight around the box of somebody who’s talking. C  Yeah, it could be little things like that. It can be institutional adoption, because Skype is free for consumers. But since Microsoft bought it, it’s like $20 a month per person to use Skype at work. K  Yeah. And when people would try and use business, Skype with me. I told them, I’m not on your network. I can’t use it. C  Yeah, it was for a while. I remember it being a huge pain for me, for you for like everybody who didn’t have business Skype. Yeah. And I think that made zoom more popular. Even though zoom bombing is a problem that doesn’t happen in any of the other systems. Let’s zoom bombing, Zoom bombing is where you’re having a meeting and just a random person comes in. And usually they start like shouting profanities and spamming people in such. K  Okay. Glad that never happened to me. Yes. That’s weird. No, I think a lot of things that surprised me are technology based. And the way that technology is used, I think is like, completely different. Culturally. And when I look, when I look at it, it’s culturally different for our generation. But culturally about the same for rosters generation Yeah, C  the young people here in Japan are like, Why do we still use fax machines? K  Yeah. So the fax is going by the wayside. In Japan? I think eventually. C  Yeah. But part of the reason that it’s not is because if you want to do paperless business, there are legal requirements. Yes, sir. That are super tough to meet. Like you have to have everything timestamp, which means like every email that you send, if you want it to be legal, cost you a quarter. Yeah. And so it’s incredibly expensive to go no paper right now. Even though the Japanese government is like, be responsible. Their idea of responsibility is printing everything out. K  So something else that surprises me about Japan, or the American companies that flop or succeed. And the American companies that don’t even try? I am wanting like Jack in the Box, get it together. I know you’re like a California thing. I don’t even think you’re like nationwide. But come to Japan, the Japanese with I think the Japanese would love Jack in the Box. I think they would like go on YouTube and watch. Japanese McDonald’s versus American McDonald’s. And I’m telling you, Jack in the Box, go on YouTube. Like whoever makes the decision. You’re C  saying like bring the teriyaki Jack. K  Right, bring it here. Japan would eat it, eat it up. Make those bad cheap April’s Japan would eat it up those chicken fingers. love everything about it. They would love especially those curly fries. Come on. Now. You have no competition for curly fries. Not real curly fries. C  Well, we have one restaurant here that does only French fries. There’s K  several chains that do only French fries. Yeah. It’s like one major chain that’s like probably as big as McDonald’s C  on the food delivery service that we use. There’s one that the only thing they do is french fries, french fries K  and shake. So this is something I find weird about Japan is Japan’s love of shake. Yeah, that’s so weird to me. I don’t get it. So shake is a powder that you put in your food and shake it and then it’s that flavor. Right? And I don’t know why that is so strange to me. Because for years in the United States whenever I would get McDonald’s I will put McDonald’s salt on the fries and it has to be McDonald’s salt, which is not the same salt in Japan they change the rest it’s not as sweet in Japan the sugar but and I would shake it but I just can’t get with the shake. Have you ever done it? C  Absolutely. K  Do you like shake? Yeah, I do. What’s your favorite flavor, because like, what are the shake flavors? C  But it depends on where you’re going. So I don’t know what they are at McDonald’s right now, because they don’t really do that for McDonald’s. And I haven’t, it’s been a while. K  Well, and like they do shake chicken, not just at McDonald’s, right? There’s a whole restaurant chain that does specialize and just shake chicken. And the French Fireplace specializes in just shake fries. Yes, it’s their shake makes that makes them so popular, fast food restaurant and they just do fries shake. Right, C  great. COVID I used to go to the convenience store nearly every day and get breakfast or lunch, which you’re aware of. And they had shake chicken at Family Mart family Chicky had the shake powder. I’m there. I like the chili powder. You know, I’m always a fan of anything spicy. Yeah, but they also had like salad powder. Yeah, that’s they seem to be like, basil and oregano and salt. Uh huh. Because that salad flavor. K  Yes, that is salad flavor in Japan. And if you get salad chips, it will taste dead on like basil, and parsley and salt. Yeah. Is it based on parsley? Right? C  I think it’s basil and oregano and salt. Yeah, I got a healthy dose of parsley just for bulk. K  And I found that out because I like the plain one of those round wafers. I eat I can’t. I’m having brain fog to me. Yeah, I love Sam Bay. And Sam Bay is around cracker like just melts in your mouth. It’s such a it’s so good. It’s really not No, I love survey. But one time I accidentally bought solid flavors. Sunbae. And it was it tasted green. Yeah, it just it tasted like a solid. And it was not good for me. I didn’t enjoy it. But I love like regular flavors. So me. So good. So so good. So I don’t get the culture of shake. And that it surprises me that I don’t know, in the US if shakers is popular or not. But it’s weird to me that it’s not like the things that are popular. Like read, like what’s popular in Japan versus what’s popular in the United States? is strange to me. Yeah. And I don’t understand. So I understand that your palate develops locally based on on actually, like, family wise, I think that when you’re young, your base palate is created by what you’re exposed to at home. But I see in our son that your palette completely evolves. And this is something you didn’t trust moments talked about before, is that Ross is a totally picky, totally picky eater as a kid, but now it’s a wide array of foods. And it’s all very Japanese taste base. He doesn’t enjoy American style food anymore. Except for the corndog. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Corn dogs are global. And that surprises me. C  Well, and here they’re called American dogs. Yes, please. K  So I know corn guys are hella good. But why are corn dogs popular here? I don’t understand what makes a food. That’s something that shocks me. Like, I could not predict what will be popular except for Jack in the Box. I’m 100% certain about that. Nagoya first. C  I’m not sure. Because every once in a while I’ll go and I’ll order corndogs for you or for me or for both of us. And it’s seven lemon. They’re just called corn. They’re just called American dogs. Yeah, but a family mark. They’re called big American dogs. I feel like K  my mind’s are bigger, though. Yeah, they are. They have way more corn on them. C  And I feel like every time I buy one, they look at me and they think yep, living up to its name. K  So I was surprised that TGI Fridays is here in Japan is nothing like the TGI Fridays in the United C  States and Denny’s where the name has been franchised and licensed, but it’s not the same. So Denny’s does not really serve breakfast food here. K  No, it does not if you go at three, because, and I think it’s because Japan has so many. Sorry, so many specialty breakfast food, right? The Japanese pancake is a thing. Yes. Small and as crispier and I’m not into them, but I’m not really into American pancakes either. But there’s small and crispier. And they have a specific they’re almost uniform in the rise. C  Yeah. Well, now there’s some places that are different, like Kameda coffee, which is popular here in Nagoya has bigger hotcakes. Yeah, um, they’re way better than Denny’s pancakes everywhere. So I think if Danny’s went up against them head to head. Like they’ve missed out. Yeah. But when when we first arrived, they had more more toward the American side on foods. More pancakes and things K  had taken in a little intermission. But we’re back. So we were talking about pancakes but an intermission something popped into my head that I find really shocking. His I find Westerners obsession with Japanese toilets to be odd. Like I don’t get why every day is so shocking because like a good third of the world has been a toilets. And so when they’re like, oh, Japanese toilets have so many buttons and such and I know we talked about it before. But I now that I’m used to it as the standard, like if I walk into the bathroom, I’m like, and I don’t use the BA. But I’ll be like, nobody. Like, are we not civilized? What is going on here? As I really like this seat warmer in the winter, so there’s a seat one, I wish there was a seat chiller, that would be nice to sit on. So Chad doesn’t like this. I would love to sit on an ice cold toilet seat in the summer. C  I would just love it if there was something that could be like be chill with very low electrical power and small enough that you could like wear it during the summer. Because we looked at chilling suits because it gets so hot and I respond so poorly to heat. And chilling suits are like expensive and take a lot of power and like expensive to run and and heavy, heavy, bulky, like you are making a commitment to keep it on because otherwise you’ll overheat. K  Yes. So for me, I like when people say what’s the most surprising thing about Japan? Everyone always says the toilets. And I feel like if you’re going to talk about a surprising Japan toilet don’t talk about the high tech ones. Talk about the juxtaposition of the bidet toilet, which is like the Rolls Royce Lexus of toilets, where you can heat you can have different BDA settings to hit different parts of your body. You can have changed the strength of the water, the timing of the water like you can C  set up you can tell it to run your bath. K  Yeah, you can pimp your toilet seat and you can pimp your bathtub. Yeah, cuz we’re, C  we have a button in our kitchen that we can push and run a bath for us. K  Yeah, that talk about that. And then the other side of it. Where it’s a squat toilet. Yeah. And it’s literally just a porcelain lined ditch that you squat over to do your business in the men’s and the women’s. Yes. So there are places that have only squat toilets. And even like the really nice high end places will have one squat toilet. And for me, it gets trippier there’ll be signs in the bathroom instructing. Not to squat. On the regular toilet. Yeah, C  don’t put your feet on the rims of the regular toilet. Yes. K  Because there are elderly people in Japan that have that come from the countryside that have never seen a western toilet. They’ve only ever used squat toilets. Yeah. And I met someone that had only ever used a squat toilet and they were like, it’s really disgusting. The other toilets are just disgusting to them. Like why would you want to sit where someone else’s like they made like a really good argument for it. Why would you want to sit with someone else set? And what if and the splash from like, because the BA can sometimes cause flashing? There’s like a whole thing. I’m not gonna get into it. Thank you. Yeah. Chatter like we get into I was so good into it. If my chat wasn’t so like, yell. C  I like to be funny, and I don’t really have any toilet humor. K  You don’t you really don’t. That’s another thing that’s surprising is the difference in what’s humorous. Yeah, I’m funny in Japanese. Oh, my gosh, that was just so desperate. And please take my site on the funny issues. You C  see how I’m looking at you in a pleading manner. That’s what makes the desperate of the audience I’m funny in Japanese. Now in Japan, like rhyming isn’t considered clever. K  It’s not considered clever in the United States either. C  But it’s not even considered wordplay because everything rhymes. K  Yeah, it does. So like even in the children’s books, there’s no rhyming, right? But there’s no rhyming poetry. Yeah. Everything ends in Deus. Or call. C  Everything ends in either one of the five vowels. Yeah. Or, or the sound? Yeah. Yeah. So that’s why, like, there’s so many Japanese homophones. Yeah. Which we talked about before. But what surprised me is about the sense of humor is just the utter lack of understanding of sarcasm. K  Yeah, that’s interesting to me. There is no sarcasm intervene, like people just generally aren’t sarcastic. C  Yeah, which animated enemy Light to me. I feel like anime had people occasionally being sarcastic. And I think was that a good translation? K  Yes, I don’t think that I wish that anime lovers who are going to say that anime is Japanese culture, I feel like they don’t understand the distance between the original anime and the translation of the anime. And that’s surprising to me. The fact that people do not understand that Japanese does not translate verbatim, just really shocking to me. And that surprises me about America, because I think at least the Americans I know, know that America is unique. And America has there is like, I don’t like when people say America doesn’t have any culture. I feel like, that’s just not right. And they’re completely wrong. And there are regional differences. It’s like there are regional differences in every country. Yeah. So for me, I understand that America is unique. And I love a lot about American culture. I love our openness to try new things, our adventurous nature, and all of those types of things. And it’s surprising to me that Americans don’t, a lot of America’s not every American, don’t give that to other countries. And don’t give that to other languages. And they presume that like every, every language is based on Latin, right? And Japanese is not a Latin based language. And so it doesn’t have that, that correlation. So you can’t do any direct translations, I feel but even when you do, like the Latin based languages, like Spanish does not translate one for one. And it really, like, cover on that word has several meanings, based on where you’re saying it, who you’re saying it to. And even like the way I just pronounced it as a regional pronunciation of it, C  even within English itself. I was talking to somebody and I said, I was quite happy. And they were like, oh, what’s wrong? Yeah, what do you mean? I’m quite happy? Like, right? You’re not happy? Why aren’t you happy? Cuz you put the quite there, right. And in the UK, that means the opposite of what it means in the US. Yeah. So I do feel like there’s a lot of variation in language that can be surprising. An anime is an intentional export from Japan. It is it’s like an intentional cultural export, they sit down and they say, how can we make other countries buy anime? Yeah, as something that we export just like the wagyu or the Kobe beef? Yeah, our intention exports, people eat them here in Japan. But far more of it is exported, then is eaten here in Japan. K  Yep, about Japanese culture. It really fucks me up. They want to be appropriated. Yeah. And so it messes me up when I see it. And I have to remind myself, this is an intention of the Japanese people and the Japanese nation. So the Japanese do a lot of cultural appropriations. Like the lowrider culture in Japan is really hard for me to not be offended by it. It’s so hard for me. But they have like they if they’re doing the cultural appropriation, they view it as appreciation, but the way that they do it as a costume, it’s appropriation, and the Japanese just do not understand that at all. And it blows my mind. And then, C  yeah, it’s like, is it a secret? No, it’s not a secret, then how could we steal it? K  Yeah, there you go. And if you if you’re not aware of like the Chicano cultural appropriation in Japan, you should watch videos on it is a Tourette. It is a trip because they get the Cholo vibe down. And they have like cruising parties and everything. And so I grew up being a Chola. And so for me, and I was like, Y’all know, if you listen to the podcast, y’all know, I used to be in a gang, I have my local dot and all of that my local dot tattoos still and all of that. So for me, it’s a trip, seeing them appropriate a culture that I was intimately involved in and a part of, even though I’m black, like they accepted me and such. And I was like, Okay, I know this culture, and I know what these things mean. And they even appropriated like the different gangs and such. And then they threw the mix in a little bit of like, because the only gangs they know are the Crips and Bloods, they don’t know any of the Latin Kings. So they mix the overlay, like Crips and Bloods over Chicano gang culture. And then there’s so for me, that is where it gets bumpy, like, Chicano culture is not gang based, right? And it’s specific for me Chicano culture that I grew up knowing is so different than the Chicano culture that I see them representing. And I have an appreciation of where Chicano gangs end and start, and Chicano culture ends and starts. And there is some overlap, just like where black culture ends and starts and where black gang culture ends and starts. Those aren’t the same things. But the Japanese don’t make that distinction. And they don’t see anything wrong with it. And even if you explain it to them, they can tell you exactly what scene and what movie that they’re doing, like poetic justice, for some of them is just the Janet Jackson movie. Yes, it’s just the rhyme. And they have their box braid wigs. And they have like, they can quote, the movie and everything. And so they take movies, and they take Pope popular culture, and they just embrace that, yeah, and lean into it. And they don’t speak anything but Japanese, except for these phrases that they’ve taken from movies. And so they have Spanish Phrases that they’ve taken in, they have phrases from black culture that they’ve taken. And it’s, it’s a trip to see the mashup is a trick. I’m like, okay, that’s not Chicano culture. C  And I feel like it’s very much age based, like poetic justice was what Janet Jackson and Tupac. Right. And I think that’s a particular age band of people who write. K  So super dated, it is like 90s, it’s very much 90s culture. C  Yeah, and I think people in their 80s here, which there’s a large number of people in their 80s, that 10 years ago, it was their 70s. I was sitting at the train station waiting. And this drunk Japanese guy comes up and start selling me. Like how much he hates Americans. How awful we were for dropping the bomb and everything, like, sitting down just like yelling this at me, like I’m his pal. And we should go out to drink. And I’m like, No, I’m just gonna get on my train as soon as it arrives. Yeah. But I found that, above about 80 now has a lot of culture about the war, even though they were born at the end of World War Two. K  Yeah, but there’s still repercussions. There’s still stand there still be the land where is still affected. And all of that, C  I think every, every generation, like every decade, and in Japan, they they do call them by decades, like the 50s. And 40s, like, by age has its own distinct kind of subculture. Yeah. And the youngest subculture is very international. A lot of them do not speak English, but they know how to use Google Translate well enough to participate in English stuff online. And they eventually learned English that way. Guys, my age and their 40s are very much like, you work for a non Japanese company. But you need to work for a company. Right? I do work for a company. Yeah, no, don’t really work for a company. I’m like I do. K  I find what I struggle with, I find it interesting how much the United States is evolving in terms of their identity politics, and I find that identity politics has a dirty name. That’s like a dirty word to say it’s identity politics, and I feel like but identity is inherently political, right? But my view is like when any two people are in a room. That’s political. Right? There are politics and policy that’s in place. And so when people I guess, identity, acceptance, identity, diversity, whatever people want to call it, I find it really interesting that the United States is simultaneously leading the world and demanding identity, equality, and also being the worst at it. Yeah, it said that juxtaposition is so weird to me, because everybody is so vocal, and so able to express all of their thoughts all of the time about anything, and it’s so culturally accepted. And people are so quick to say, I’m being silenced. I’m being canceled and all of that, but they still go on. And they still like, you know, C  they’re being listened to by 10 million people. Yeah, I complain about being canceled. K  Right. So that’s interesting to me and cancel culture in Japan. Like if you get cancelled in Japan, you are seriously canceled. Like everybody in the United States was really shocked when the member of aka before he had to shave her head and penance. But that’s the price that she pays for fame. But if you look at C  lions specifically to stay in the idols group, yeah, because a lot of the idols girls go to grab your or like soft porn after? Yes. And that’s considered and totally acceptable career path. And there are, you know, people in Parliament who have that background. Yeah, just like in Italy, there were like a porn star was elected to Parliament in Italy. K  Like, Nina. C  Yeah, it’s not unusual here. K  She had great policy. Yeah. And the way in Italy and I don’t know the politics of the ones here in Japan, C  I don’t know. But I know that it’s not unusual because, like it’s legal to work in that industry. And so people are like, if it’s legal, why would we care? Yeah. Whereas if you’re working in a in a bad industry, it can be really hard to get out of it. K  Yeah. And I find it interesting that when, and this happens a lot on Twitter, people will tell me you shouldn’t tweet that. Like, it’ll affect your ability to get a job. Right? No, it won’t, it would affect and these are usually academics. So academia is really hard to get into in Japan, it’s like it is everywhere. And I find it shocking that people in academia think that their their rules apply to everyone. I think that’s weird. I think in it’s weird that in the United States, people wouldn’t try to censor me as much. And I think that the United States is more sensitive. This isn’t shocking to me. But in terms of talking about the United States, the fundamental right to say whatever you want to say, anytime someone says you can’t say it, Americans become very upset. And I’m very American. And that way, I don’t like being told what I can and cannot say, I can appreciate you saying I’m going to not follow you. And I’m not going to communicate with you because I don’t like what you’re saying, right. But I don’t like to be censored at all. But here in Japan, we’ve talked about before the censorship is real. And people will tell me you share too much. You’re on team too much. And I feel like like, because I tweet very openly about my health, I tweeted, I’m in the hospital, and they’re like, No, being chronically ill needs to be a secret or you’ll never be hired. And that’s not true. That’s things that they’ve been taught about Japan, that’s not true. And how much people don’t know their rights in both countries is surprising to me. Like in the United States, a lot of people don’t actually know what their legal rights are, what’s illegal and what’s legal. Across the board. And in Japan, it’s the same thing. A lot of people don’t know what’s legal, and what’s not legal. And that’s always shocked me. I’m always quick to find out like, what what does the law say? I think C  it’s enforceable and what’s not enforceable. Yeah. Like, technically, here in Japan, it’s illegal to discriminate based on nationality. K  But still, like, no foreigners allowed. Yeah. C  And then practice, if you go to a real estate company, and they’ve got 400 listings, as soon as they see you, like, 300 of those listings are gone. They’re like, yeah, no, we can’t rent these to foreigners K  in the process of moving roster, you’re banned from talking about anything until afterwards? Because we’re gonna do a whole episode. Okay. You know that. I know, that’s not what you’ve been thinking about lately. So for real, y’all know, I’m always telling Chad, don’t talk about that. That’s coming up. So how we do the podcast, I’ve told y’all before I make a list, and every time before we start recording, I tell Chad, what the topics gonna be. We don’t do any research or planning. And so Chad sometimes wants to pop off and just talk about whatever’s on Chad mine. Sometimes. Yeah. And that’s the whole roles C  for What surprises me is how different the rules are based on your status in life. K  Yes. And on this podcast, that is, it’s whatever Christopher’s been thinking about lately. C  No, I get that. But a lot of the stuff that you say that you’re like it won’t or my ability to get work to say you’re absolutely correct. K  No, you’re not bringing us back round. So I want to talk about this now, cuz I’m thinking about it. So I’m on a podcast, C  okay. I’m the boss, the podcast boss, the podcast, the reason K  and so don’t feel sorry for Chad. Don’t do it. I know a lot of you. Or any of our music knows, it’s because I have to think of the topics. And I have to set the time to record. Yeah. And so because I have to do those two things. I’m in charge of the podcast. That’s right. I just show up with the voice. You do you show up with all that beautiful sexiness. And that beautiful voice of yours, which you know, I absolutely love the sound of and the music notes know that I used to like call up your phone just to listen to you. And then he told me, Don’t call him hang up, leave a message and say, I’m just listening to your voice and hang up. Yes. C  And then I could call and listen to my messages over and over. K  We love each other. We enjoy each other. Now I wonder in the United States. And this is something I don’t know, would be because I see people telling other people to not clap back and worry about their public image. But that’s only for public figures. I wonder if, because a lot of our friends have fake names that they use on Twitter, because they don’t want their company to find out. And I don’t know if that’s paranoia or fact. C  That’s fact. So yeah, yeah, I know too many people who have worked in the, like, reference checking, K  do you think for disability? Yes. Okay, that’s shocking. I didn’t know anything about that, tell me about it. C  Companies will look to see if there’s anything negative, and being disabled is definitely considered a negative. And if they can deny you employment, before they have to do accommodation, then they will, if they can do it, in a way that’s deniable because you can’t prove they went on your social media and denied you because you’re disabled. K  So I know that companies globally around the world, check social media, and I do advise clients to have clean social media. And I guess I’m very lucky, because at the end of the day, I’m always my own employer. Yeah, that’s right. And so I, for me, a lot of my ignorance will come from. So I guess I would, I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. Because I think about what do I do? What do I say to my clients, C  and this is exactly what I was saying about, it’s your position in life, you and I are in positions in life where we can be open about who we are, are our real names, K  that you’re, you work for a company? C  I do. And one of the things that on Twitter, in particular, as I chose to be open about being disabled, because I didn’t want to work for a company that would be shocked by it. In the interview, I said it in the interview, I was like, Look, I have autism and epilepsy and arthritis, I’m like, not gonna be able to do these things. And they’re like, We don’t care. We’ve seen what you can do, you’re really good. We don’t care about that. Yeah, I think companies get the idea that it’s always going to be super expensive to accommodate any disability. And that’s not the case, like my company accommodates mine. And what it is, is, sometimes I’m going to tell you that I can’t wait for the rest of the C  hour in the middle of the day, take a nap. It doesn’t really cost the company any money. It’s occasionally slightly inconvenient. But the attitude is, I’m a person just like everybody else. K  interesting about that is because of my own employer, I have to look at what do I advise my clients versus what do I say, right? Because I, I’ve switched over my business, my therapy practice to accommodate me, and I’m currently in the process of switching over. But I’m just doing I’ve always done coaching, and professional coaching. So if I look at what I tell my therapy clients and my coaching clients, and the difference between career coaching and during therapy is just the focus, one’s work focused one’s personal focus. There’s a lot of overlap. Executive Coaching is really different than they’re all slightly different and slightly the same. C  Well, having had it not from you, I’ll say that was just like more of a sounding board than anything else. And I think you do, K  you’ve had it from me, and you’ve had it in the style. I do it and it’s not a sounding board when C  I do it. No, but your secret sauce is better. K  Thank you. My secret sauce is me. Yes. And real talk. And I’m well read. And I’m an expert. So all of those things, all that. So my point in bringing that up is I think we’re super privileged. Yes. And I think we’re a little bit out of touch. Absolutely. Because that shocks me right now. My privilege. I’m shot in C  2016. I didn’t say I was disabled, publicly, because it was still legal to fire people for being disabled. Like I was a regular employee, it was basically impossible for me, unless you’re disabled unless I’m disabled. And then it was like, no problem. K  Yeah, we talked about that. Yeah, Fly on, on the cast. So something that’s currently surprising me in the United States is Hollywood, cuz I watch a lot of TV. Because Hello, I’m in the hospital lot. So I binge watch a lot of things. And I’m surprised at the gap. There’s a year gap in TV show seasons. Yeah. And there’s a year gap and things that were launched, things were pushed back, because Hollywood actually shut down during during all the wildness that was 2019 C  when there’s still shutdowns going on. I thought thing that Picard has shut down filming because 50 of the people who work on the show had COVID and they were like, Don’t worry, Patrick Stewart doesn’t have COVID PP ons. K  Well, I think to that that has to do with like masking and I think because the extras don’t mask now There’s that but we don’t talk about masking because this is not we’re not doing anything heavy. Something I find shocking is how people view puzzling. Yes, we did jigsaw puzzles. C  And how do you think people here view it? Because we we sometimes order online and sometimes go to the dedicated jigsaw puzzle shop that is a couple blocks away? K  Yeah. So people is flossy. Yeah, it’s hella floss outta puzzle. And I’m like, It’s not that expensive. It’s like if we go to the dedicated puzzle shop is super expensive. Yeah. And so we only go there if there’s like a specific puzzle I want to do that we can’t find. And we’ll go to check it out. Or if we’re on a date, and we’ll buy like one puzzle from them, because they’re, they’re really expensive. Yeah. But it’s a really nice, they’re located in azmol and Nagaya. If you live in Nagoya, and you haven’t been to asthma, you have to go. It’s near ozonic station, check it out. It’s worth it’s a really cute date, date place to go. And you can if you go early, you can get a fruit sandwich. And it’s shocking that free sandwiches aren’t more popular in the United States, because you cannot beat a banana sandwich. C  And you can get that at specialty restaurants here at convenience stores at the grocery store. K  Yeah, so I like my fruit. This is really blasphemous. But I like my fruit sandwiches plain. I like bread and fruit. And so good. So we can sometimes we get up early and we go over to our small site and get a free sandwich even like making my like going to the place and then we’ll go pick out a puzzle. But anyone I tell in Japan that we puzzle, like, oh my gosh, your house must be huge. No. And they’re like, you must know they’re like, No, you can’t for me. Because if you can dedicate a table to a puzzle 2000 piece puzzle because like, like, what size? And then like we get 1000 pieces that I oh my god. Your house must be huge. And I’m like we do on our kitchen table. How big is your kitchen table? Big enough for 1000 piece puzzle and to still hold our mail? Yeah, probably. And so that was measurements. C  Yeah. May be big enough for 2000 but definitely not big enough for anything. K  I can’t commit to 2000 pieces. I feel like you’re trying to up our puzzle now. No, I’m C  not trying to for a while you were for a while that was K  like we could clear off a space and do them on the floor. Yeah. I’m like, How does that sound appealing to you? C  I’m like, Babe, we’ve saved up enough we can afford this 32,000 piece puzzles the biggest number you’re like, No, no, we can’t No, never K  be trippin. Wildling No, not gonna happen. When I tell people in the US that we post like, Oh, that’s cute. What kind of puzzles do you do? Yeah, it’s like nothing. And I’m like, we do Tenyo and still just flatline. But if I tell people in Japan, we do Tenyo Tenyo you know, tenure? And like, No, I don’t. I love that phrase. And gafisa, you know, cuz, you know, is the same as you know about Yeah, you know, tenure. And I’m like, Yeah, we love tenure. They make some of the best puzzles. They should totally sponsor us. If you work for tenure. Let us know. And we will hook you up on the sponsor, because we love, love. Love your pill. I love your puzzles. Yes, we do. They’re plastic. And they’re awesome. They snap together tight. And I love that they can be recycled, they can go in recyclable. Yeah. And that’s really important to me, recycling our puzzles, some of them we have framed, because they’re really actually beautiful pieces of art. And I find it interesting that in Japan, it’s shocking to me that in Japan, they understand that it’s a fine piece of art. So I thought everybody would have the bias that it’s not, but they saw frames and glue. And you can get this in the United States as well. Right. And I like the 10 year puzzles because you can actually pick them up, and they lock in a place and they C  won’t fall apart. But you can get frames at the grocery store here. Yeah, K  puzzle frames, because they know they do. You know, check out your puzzle, check out puzzles, jigsaw, puzzling, because the reason we started puzzling is to help me with my pots, because my blood pressure will just randomly shoot up to a hypertension crisis. And I usually have like, when it’s not flared up, I have normal blood pressure. So I don’t I’m not on any medication and none of the medications work and all contraindicated for me. But doing a puzzle lowers my blood pressure. Like if I’m in crisis. I go and I puzzle for a little bit my deal with this deal with the spinning and all of that, and it lowers my blood pressure gets me out of crisis. C  And it’s quite astonishing to see it because we have a speak moment. ometer Yeah, you take it before and I’d be like whoa, you take it after that. K  You’re surprised I was you accuse me of Same because if Chad touches me It elevates my blood pressure. So Chad doesn’t C  good touches I’m not doing bad touches. Yeah, if Chad K  does just put like just touches my shoulder, then my blood pressure will go up. And I’ve shown this chat. And so if I’m having blood pressure, if I’m in hypermiling hypertension crisis, I’ll just check it over and over again and chats like that. Those very pointed. I’m like, I’m not seeing you talking to me as raising my blood pressure. I feel like it’s stopping. I’m like, we’re puzzling. I’m in a hypertension crisis. I have to monitor it. Because you have to monitor every five minutes. So you take it and then do it again. So it’s shocking to me the child’s not used to that. Yeah. I’m not shocking them. So looking at thank you so much for listening. We appreciate every single click he hears. I don’t know why I do stuff right next to my mic, but I do. Be patient. That was C  your reading glasses opening up. K  Yeah. So I’m spacey today. But I do know I’m looking at butter. Take tears. Oh, my child doesn’t read our author’s books. Yeah, what’s up with that? Whatever doesn’t read our authors books. C  We’ll talk about that. K  Right? Follow us on over to the Patreon you can find out the answer. Because now we’re doing cliffhangers. Yes, we want you to become a patron. Thank you so much for listening. And you can hit us up on Twitter and tell us what surprised you or leave a comment about what surprised you about America or Japan. We love the interaction and we’ll talk to you next week. Bye bye.

K  So lately, I’ve been thinking about things that were super useful in the United States, but are completely useless and Japan. And this sort of came up because I’m getting ready to do a spring clean. And this time, I’m trying to get rid of things that we brought from the US that I just had no business bringing. And there’s no way that I could have known those before being in Japan shoes. Like, I would say two thirds of the shoes that I brought, I can’t wear. C  I mean, I think to be fair, that a third of those were already impractical. But you have always disagreed about that. K  And hey, so I love a stiletto heel. I do. I just love a stiletto heel. But I didn’t hold. I think we did a podcast. I want to say a couple years ago, right talked about like getting older and not wearing stilettos anymore. But even when I came to Japan, those stilettos were not, I couldn’t wear them anymore because one public transportation, that too, all of them have an ankle strap. Almost all of them have an ankle strap. C   And a few days, I think like 10 days, it’ll be officially 17 years since you first came to Japan to live. Yeah. So you’re a little bit older. K  Well, the thing that messes me up with bike because I have a lot of really cute touches. Yeah, but they all lace up. And I have not mastered the right tension for a lace up tennis shoe to be able to slip it on and off. And I was really surprised that like, I’m not surprised that by going into people’s homes, you have to take your shoes off. What I’m surprised about is the number of venues that require you to take your shoes off, like doctor’s office, dentist’s office, we’ve been in rooms and museums where you have to take your shoes off entire museums and art exhibits where you take your shoes off C  when I was at university here. There were a couple of departments that required taking your shoes off. Math was not one of them. I got to wear my shoes in the math department. But there are a couple at the university I went to Nagoya University had I think like 11, specialists libraries. Yeah, some of the specialist libraries required removing your shoes to go into the library. And a couple of the labs did too. K  Which is so just wild to me. It wouldn’t be wild if it was consistent, right. So I have to be prepared at any moment to take my shoes off. Because I don’t know and I so don’t find my Japanese friends. My Japanese sisters and brothers and siblings. Don’t fry is like y’all now so I’ll guess the call the middlings. Siblings cousins, brothers sisters, fam non binary. Yeah, my Japanese film. There you go. So my Japanese film Don’t fret. Y’all don’t know when you have to take your shoes off either. C  We see people surprised by it yet, K  because I have been. I have been hanging out my Japanese friends. And they like come in they go. Oh, sorry. Because they didn’t know. And I was like, it’s cool. I didn’t know either. And it was my idea to come. Yeah. So like I was there’s some restaurants that you have to take your shoes off. C  And I just remembered that I was lying about the University of the math department. If I needed to use their computers, rather than my personal laptop, the computer lab you had to take your shoes off. And I thought other people be surprised by it, which is why it triggered this memory. It’s because I went there and I was surprised by it. And somebody else who’s a new student, Japanese came in. I went oh, before they started, um, lacing. They’re very much lace up shoes and put them in the shoe cabinet. K  Yeah, and I don’t like so I don’t like to do the unlace and lace up because I’m a foreigner. And so it becomes a huge deal. And in some places if I’m the customer, they will want to shoe me and put my shoes on. Right if my shoes or slip on. They don’t mess with me because I feel like I know what time it is. You might C  even know how to use chopsticks. Right? K  I don’t feel comfortable with anybody dropping down and putting my shoes on me. Yeah, it’s Yeah, except for you. Yeah, like everybody knows you’ve been though that’s just the thing. C  But it’s things to do tasks. K  Your Get your mind out. Can’t your mind out of the gutter? C  I’m looking at you so it’s hard. Wow. No, K  are you saying I’m in the gutter? No, I’m C  saying then looking at you. K  You heard it first chance that I’m in the gutter C  gives you thoughts that I shouldn’t share on the podcast. K  I like being in the gutter with you. Yes, I live in the gutter and not roll around them up. Yeah, C  yeah, but nobody ever tried to put my shoes on for me. They would have me. Yeah, they would have me a shoe horn. K  So why don’t they try to put your shoes on? C  I think they were taking advantage of pretty privilege. Yes. K  I don’t think it was pretty privileged because it was, it would be women that would do it. I’ve had a couple men do it too. So when you go into so I went in I was the strangest instance of it was I was doing furniture shopping here in Japan, I went to a really upscale, high end furniture place because I was looking for a king size bed. And it’s more likely to find a larger bed, but more upscale, you go in Japan. This place also sold authentic Japanese. I can’t read the name of it now. Popular in the 80s the fake stuff. If you can’t touch it, lacquer. Yeah. Japanese lacquerware. Yeah, Japanese like lacquered cabinets. And we’ve talked about the cabinet’s before we’re like authentic Japanese lacquer, the heat from your hand, will change the color of the lacquer. So I was at the place and it was still early in my timeshare in Japan. But and C  for context. It’s only been about 10 years that IKEA has been here. And when IKEA came, say furniture sales in Japan went up by 80%. Because most people never buy furniture in their lifetime. Furniture is was just hideously expensive here. K  Yeah. And it’s really dropped, right? The furniture prices. So this was before IKEA was here. And there are very few furniture shops and very few bed shops. So go into this place because they might have what’s called a royal bed, which is a California king is called royal bed here. I don’t know. So I went there and I had lace up shoes because I was going furniture shopping. So I wouldn’t have take my shoes off, had to unlace my shoes and take them off, which is not a big deal. They tried to drop down and replace them. I was like, No, thank you. I’m Bonnie thing. I’m not committing. I felt like the stuff I’m committing to buying something. They feel like that too. That’s why they dropped down, right? And then they have like really my slippers. And I put the slippers on I go around everything and I’m not even tripping. And then again, they tried to put my shoes back on. So the context of being in a furniture store where you can’t touch the furniture. And they asked you to clasp your hands behind your back. That was really strange to me. Taking off my shoes in a furniture shop was really strange for me. Yeah. And that’s when I was like I’m done with lace up shoes. Yes, I’m done. And then I was done with ankle diatonic still rock acute ankle strap. And I was done with the cute ankle strap because I was wearing strap at the toe strap at the ankle six on stiletto and the first flight of steps. One flight of steps. I was like, Okay, let’s go home and you’re really chill about it. And you’re like those shoes are impassable bit like No, no, they’ll be fine. They’ll be fine. And you’re like no boobs. So it’s like, I don’t think I think that we should. And you’re like, I know you really want to wear the shoes at the event. So I’ll carry them for you. And then we got to the event. I was like, Okay, I will be so overdressed in the tills and I would tower over everybody. But at five foot seven as a woman as someone who’s female presenting, I just wish feel like I was towering over everyone, right? And so I was like, Okay, I’m gonna stay in flats here. Because I’m right within like the sweet spot for female presenting height. And for your age. I feel like yeah, for your C  age group. Yeah, because I noticed the kids like there are a lot of older teenagers who are taller than me. And like girls who are near my height, I’m not quite 510. But anybody older, like if somebody is a little taller than 50 here, and Japanese, I’m going to be taller than them. Yeah, but if somebody is under 25 It’s a mix. It’s a mixed bag. K  And so I need to out myself that I wear suede. I’m going to help myself to have suede shoes. So I’m sorry for anybody who hasn’t been paying attention, but I’m not vegan because I can’t be and I can’t be vegan because I have a rare blood disorder. And yeah, I’m super defensive about it. C  That’s the same reason cats can’t be vegans not the same chemical, but you lack the ability to synthesize a necessary amino acid. The same cats do. K  So I can’t be vegan. Right. And I think I’m defensive about it because I think that I would go vegan just because of where we’re at with climate change. I think like, everybody should do what they can. So I do go vegan a couple times a month, like what my body will tolerate. I try to go vegan at least once a week. C  Well, you’re definitely not a meat at every meal kind of person. K  No, like, cuz my body can’t do that either. Right? So it’s all like, the third thing is a thing is the thing. Follow us on Twitter, if you want to know more about. So I tweet a lot about my third thing. When I’m tweeting. I don’t know sometimes to most of our tweets on Twitter, Chad, because you’re more consistent on Twitter, I think C  hard to say. I haven’t tweeted very much in the last couple of months, because I had a break. And then I got a promotion at work. So I’ve been busy. K  Oh, yeah. There’s that having a life. Yeah. Beyond. So when I’m tweeting all the time, I’m still having a life. I’m just having a life that I have more discretionary time. Yeah, that’s when I’m not tweeting us because I don’t get to decide what I’m doing my time. Other people have laid claim to it kind of thing. C  And usually when I’m tweeting, I’m waiting on somebody else. K  Yeah. Yeah. A lot of hurry up and wait, I do sometimes. Yeah. C  Or like, start automated things. Because a lot of my job is automating things and wait for them to see how they go. So a lot of wait time, K  what’s automated and watch? Right? You have to watch and wait for it to break. Yes. Or catch things like up is doing something that’s gonna break. Yes. And I what I think it’s so odd at your job is that people are upset that you’re preemptively preventing something from breaking, because they want it to run until it breaks. And I get that your predecessor, I’m gonna say you won’t say it, I’ll say your predecessor sucked ass at the job. And so they kind of like all of your predecessors, built in this mentality of we should get as far down the road as we can. But if you’re good at your job, you realize that if stuff is completely broken down, C  what and we’re using tools, I don’t want to get into like a big long work thing. But we’re using tools that allow for on the flight tuning of different things. And that’s what I do when I’m doing these kind of things. So K  I feel like they get some timing with you about that. Like sometimes they love it. Sometimes they don’t C  they they do it very much is if I’m doing my job, right, everything just runs smoothly. K  But that’s not true. Because you’ve got things that are grandfathered in. C  But yeah, I’m saying from the outside, everything runs smoothly. People don’t see what what’s not running smoothly, internally. Yeah. And they start to say, do you really do anything like nobody’s been that direct? And I think that’s a difference in work culture between Australia and Japan, because K  it’s, for me, it’s the thing that bothers me is not do anything. The thing that bothers me is why did you do that? Yeah. Why did you do that thing that prevented a catastrophe? Yeah, that’s, I don’t like that. So that kind of explains like a little bit of how different cultures think about usefulness and uselessness. And for me, what I’m thinking about for usefulness are what are the things that I can use every day? What are the things that I enjoy using? What are the things that are covered in dust, and have to go to the dry cleaners to use them? And there’s a serious mold issue, at least where we live. And I find that I struggle with things that I love. But I’m starting to have the rule if it ever gets moldy, I should throw it out. Because obviously, I’m not using it enough or attending to it enough that it prevented it from sitting in the closet and getting mold. Yeah. And so clothes will mildew if you’re not using them regularly, and they’re not airing out the closet regularly, or rotating them regularly. And cleaning them regularly. For me at least clothes get moldy. And it’s not because I’m dirty. So don’t be shady. If there’s like there are mold spores and I’ve talked about the writing yet airborne. C  Yeah, my shoes get get it K  off of our shoe cabinet to prevent our sheets from molding right. And it’s really hard because I have a lot of things. I really love that I need to get rid of that hole if it doesn’t spark joy crap, it sparks joy. Okay, I’m just not using it. And I was listening to as watching hosta Minaj the fast fashion episode of Patriot Act if you have Netflix, I think everyone should go watch the fast fashion episode. Because it freed me. I’ve had these clothes now for some of them for 20 years. C  Yeah, some of them since before we got married, which was more than 20 years ago. K  Yeah. And so I kept it For the life of it, and I was shocked to find out in the United States that 80% of things that go to the Salvation Army are thrown away. Yeah. And by thrown away, I mean, shipped to Africa. And then Africans got through it. And from there, so 80% of it gets shipped to Africa. And then only 20% of that gets used. So 60% of everything you donate ends up in a landfill, C  but we had somebody come by not from Salvation Army, but come by and say, Do you have any kind of good condition use clothes? When we had thing, we pulled them out? And they took one scarf? And some of these things still had tags on them? Yes. Like, it wasn’t that they were, you know, old and Ratty. It was just that they’re like, No, we couldn’t use that. So we’re not even gonna pretend to take it. K  So for me, I do have like, a big, like, I do need to do like two or three bags of clothes that I’m throwing out and I didn’t need to do a bunch of shoes. My problem with the shoes are as I’ve talked about them before, there, shouldn’t Chanel. And so they’re Gucci, rather. And so I think I do think I am going to put them up, like take photos of them, and put them up with the size and say, come take me you can have me C  more on our, our grocery store has a donation box for clothing to so we’ll figure out what the rules are about that and what we can take to there. K  Yeah, but I feel better. I don’t feel like a bad human for everything. Yeah, I want to get rid of because it’s just not useful. Like sweaters. I’ve talked about the sweaters before. Yeah, because temperatures are so variable inside. I just feel like I’m roasting. And um, C  yeah, I think we mentioned before, if it’s raining, the heat will be on on the subway. Yes, like no matter how hot it is outside. It is raining. The heat is on. Yeah, I’m assuming that’s kind of some kind of anti moisture mechanism. K  Yeah, and flip flops can’t wear my flip flops. Yeah. Because the sudden rain and not I have one pair of flip flops that I can wear. But they’re so culturally done that I just don’t wear my flip flops. Because when you take your seats off inside, because you’re wearing slippers, you have to have on socks or you’re rude. Yeah, so I have seen some people that wear open toed or flip flops and just carry a pair of socks in their bag. That my purse is so tiny like it’s full. C  The Gator socks the gator? That wouldn’t shoes? Yeah. So they sell the socks with the big toe separated so that you can use it. Yeah, K  but that’s not cute. It’s not That’s not cute. So the thing that surprises me most that we brought from the US that I have not used at all is my Kool Aid jug. C  I use it sometimes for water. K  But there’s no Kool Aid in Japan. No, there’s C  not. There’s no flavor eight either. They’re not playing favorites like that. K  Yeah, there’s no Kool Aid. There’s no flavoring, no Crystal Light. And I never drank Crystal Light. I’m not even sure C  it exists anymore. But you know, I used to drink the the pouches where you could. K  Yeah, you did like the Crystal Light. And I haven’t seen do they do just patches here. I haven’t seen them. C  Yeah, you don’t like the juice patches here. They do juice boxes. Yeah, I’ve K  never I wasn’t a fan of them in the United States. Yeah, but I would give Rasta Capri Sun Yeah. And I would pretend to take a sip because that’s who you are Rasta when you listen to this I’m just gonna come clean. No, I’m sorry to do this publicly. I know this might be traumatizing for you. But mommy never drank your Capri Suns. I guess pretended to drink your Capri Sun. Wow. Yes, money lied. And I’m sorry. C  Hashtag truth bomb. Right? K  Because what kid needs their parent to sip like as if they’re afraid of being poisoned? C  Thank you. I was just thinking what kid needs a poison tester? K  Everything Everything for that kid. You taste it. I don’t like strawberry milk. But you taste it but I don’t like it tasted anyway. And so he’ll just like pressure me and just stare at me with those eyes. And like y’all have a met roster but if you met roster, he has his face that he does. That is just like 1000 pounds of peer pressure. There’s like nothing is going forward. Nothing is happening until you do this thing for me mother. Yeah my mother so he makes the do this for me another face and I’m just I’m weak against the face. Roster Dota two rosters still use this dude. That roster knows don’t overuse it because it doesn’t tolerate it. So rosters crap Y’all don’t play around sight on this, your mind. So I think of all of the nasty stuff I’ve had to drink, and eat and taste so that this child of mine would eat and drink their food that they wanted, mind you. So, that’s all I’m saying about that. So Rasta is one of those things that worked in the United C  I was thinking to myself, don’t say it. K  Just kidding. We love you, baby. I’m just kidding. Mommy loves you. I’m happy we brought Roscoe C  he calls your mother K  I have the me rock roster from the years, especially now that his Japanese is like native level. Yes. So for reals for reals roster super useful. But besides that Ross is our son and we love pasta. Yes. Last is the precious C  but we did bring a lot of clothes from the US that he never ended up wearing because he had outgrown them. Bastard like when we moved we didn’t separate Okay, these are the clothes that are outgrown and these are not it was just well of course we’re running a 20 foot container K  now he went through a growth spurt right after we got here. C  Yeah, so K  we did not pack clothes that didn’t fit him. We packed clothes that he developed the agency and autonomy to say that he wouldn’t wear anymore because I love roster in the color orange. Yes, you do. I love roster and the color orange rasa does not like to wear the color orange. And so we have now we have a truce and a treaty on that Ross doesn’t have to wear anymore orange. But there was a point in time. Because roster we moved on roster was 12. Yeah. And NASA was right at that age like so right before we moved faster was still being dressed by me. And then once we moved, and Rasca acclimate to here, Ross is like, I don’t like that. C  Well, and you came over here in bursts to learn Japanese and different things. Yeah, two years before we moved here finally. So K  that didn’t affect what we brought with us. It should have been, should have. But C  we started like having stuff here in Japan when Ross was 10. K  Yeah. And so that all of that stuff stayed, right. And I feel like we used all of that stuff, because a lot of that stuff was art and everything. So I love all of our photos that we brought all of our keepsakes, and all of our memorabilia and even blankets. I love our blankets and our towels. The towels make me feel just so we have towels that we have owned for 20 years now. Yeah. So okay, we keep stuff C  on there from Target. K  Yeah. So no family surprising to me that I wish we had brought that we didn’t bring. We’re dishes. As we bought for some reason we bought tons of silverware. Right. We we bought all of our almost all of our cutlery, but we didn’t bring any of our plates. And I wish we had brought our plates. Because Japanese plates, we buy them at the dollar store just to be clear. And the Dollar Store plates. We didn’t have dollar store places in the US we had nice, like place sets for entertaining. And I was like I’m not going to be entertaining as much. But the dollar stir plates in Japan, if you drop them once they split down the middle C  one you’ve been watching a ceramic show. Pottery shows now I know. Oh, they had two halves of a plate. And they just held them together with glaze. Because they all they all develop crack lines before they actually crack. K  Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. C  When I spend some knowledge, you’re never gonna K  get me to agree. Anybody made a plate in two pieces, like watching the pottery show. If nothing else, you should have learned that that is just like the least fees like this. Oh my gosh, no, C  they all crack so cleanly, though. K  No, they don’t some break at the edge. We do have had a lot that break right down the center. Yeah, but some break at edge. And so I’m wondering, should we invest? Should we pay a little bit more? Should we go ahead and separate and pay that $4 more for a plate, but I don’t trust it. I don’t feel like it would stay. I feel like it would be just as fragile. And then the wood, the wooden dishes that they have here. That cheap lacquer that they put on them that bubbles up and I don’t want to eat that. Yeah, so C  the cheap ceramic dishes that we buy last us about four or five years usually that the wooden ones that we tried that we’re like we’re gonna do the wood. It’s made of bamboo. It’s not actually wood. We’re gonna do the bamboo. It’s gonna be good. It’s gonna be good for eco friendly. Does like five or six times after eating off of them. Yeah, all of the finish on it was gone, it would start staining and like warping and yeah, they’re just not good. K  And then we have a really nice tea set that someone gave us. I don’t know why they gave us this really nice, expensive tea set. And it’s fragile as all get out, so you can’t use it. So I don’t know, where the price point is for durable goods. C  I don’t know, because that just got delivered one day and you’re like, Oh, that’s a client. Don’t look at the name. Like, okay. K  Yeah. And how they found me was creepy, but whatever. Like, some people track me down and find my home address which violation violation. So I started putting, C  yeah, you started putting, if you try to track me down, I will drop you as a client. K  Yeah. Like, don’t send things to my home, do not find my home. Do not follow me home. And you’re like, What have you been through a lot? Okay. So I don’t know, what is a durable good. In Japan? I don’t know the durable brands. I know, the high end brands. And I know, the low end brands, I don’t know the media and brands. Right? I feel like we I brought a lot of high end brand stuff from the US with me to Japan, that don’t fit my lifestyle. Yeah, cuz I’m not. I’m not an entertainer anymore. And also, it just even when we were entertaining in Japan, I wasn’t using those things. Because I was surprised to find out that when you do have, we did throw a couple of house parties we I know we said we never threw parties, but we used to throw them quite regularly and have Japanese people come over. And they did enjoy it, the home cooking and all of that. But we had really intimate relationships with them. And so it was never a fancy dress, right party like a dinner party in Japan. Is it a formal dinner? We didn’t have? Yeah, friends on that level. C  We have a relationship that they were they had said, please go ahead and call me by my first name. K  Yeah, we did. And I have friends that I can chat. And so yeah, like so those like songs so much on and couldn’t and Thomas for girls Chronos for boys. And right away. It’s not strict. But like you that’s to say that you need them. When you hear someone saying like, like that’s the Quran. That’s them saying that they’ve known roster since he was a boy. Yeah. And so I have a couple of good friends are like, No, you can call me China couldn’t because I feel like I’ve known you long enough that you’re like, like a childhood friend. Yeah. And so if you have a childhood friend over, like, what’s your level of dress, you know? And if we’re going out to a museum or what have you, I just I don’t find that there’s enough formal occasions where I dress up. And then there was the awkward thing of where we would go to events with the American Chamber of Commerce, Japan, and y’all can hate me if you want to, I don’t care. And I went to one event and I was dressed in all silk and heels, my heels. And everybody made such a big deal of the fact that I was wearing silk. And I was like C  all these people in wool, silk and wool suits. K  Yeah, so it was uncomfortable for me. And then I went to another formal like it was supposed to be a formal business type dinner and the silk again, it was an I have these two skirts are really beautiful. They’re embroidered. So I thought, Okay, I won’t do the embroidery itself, because that makes like, way too much of a hullabaloo. They weren’t that expensive. They aren’t my most expensive. I C  was thinking I was thinking the price. I thought those were reasonably priced. You’ve gotten like many, many years of many, many times of use out of them. K  Yeah, so then I just wore a plain soap because I like soap because it’s airy. And I never know the temperature in Japan. So silk is my friend. And they made like a huge deal out of the fact that I was an all silk again. And I was just like, okay, so C  no, it’s Ray on I told you. I don’t wear bring on. I know you don’t K  is for ecological reasons. Yeah. And so for me, I just feel like I’m in the packet in cotton and natural and I do natural fibers. So that has has shifted. So my sweaters and so it’s mostly clothes that we shouldn’t have brought with us instead we should have brought dishes. Yes. Like I wish we had brought dishes but the cabinets are so shallow, at least in in our house. The cabinets are so shallow that I don’t know if our dishes would have fit. And that was one of the issues. One of the things that we were talking about, because we had lived here for a little while and then back. They were when we’re looking at dishes or like what our dishes fit, like dishes would not fit in the dishwasher. No, like a full size American plate does an average American dinner plate would not fit. And the curry plates don’t fit. So C  they’re too curved. K  They’re too tall. C  Yeah, that’s one thing though. Too curved. They’ve got too much depth. K  They’re too tall. C  They’re too diameters. K  Circumference is too large. See, I see the curve in the pleat. C  I say diameter, but you can calculate Cumference from the diameter, so I’ll allow it. K  So what’s something you brought that you regret? I think you have any regrets. Do you regret the shake machine? I think you should regret Brian. I C  do regret bringing the milkshake machine. I don’t think I’ve ever used it here. We used it here for a while. What was never a good idea. And it wasn’t a good idea in the US. That’s when anything by never. Yeah. It was never a good idea. Yeah, I think the big things that I brought were like art and such. I don’t regret bringing that. I’m happy you brought that. K  I love that. We bought our art. C  Yeah, I think I had a desk that we brought. K  No, we didn’t bring your desk. Okay. You bought a glass desk, so you can regret that purchase? C  Yeah. I thought I was gonna like it. Yeah, K  no. No more desks for you. C  Right. Now I have a TV tray that I use. And that’s all you get. K  And it’s all I need. Yeah, three teeny trays. A lot better. C  I guess strictly they’re not TV trays. Because they’re they’re just collapsible tables. They reach all the way to the ground. They don’t have the miniature legs of a typical, you mess K  them off me? Absolutely. Yeah. Because you have my big, C  I have your big and then I went and bought two more to replace your big. And then I took them back. I was like you’re not using K  memory is so bad. The two small tables that we have, you did not bite. So something that’s really practical in Japan, if you move to Japan, get yourself some collapsible tables. They’re awesome. I suggest them to every client when they’re like, I don’t know how to set things up and that pop up and I’m like, get yourself collapsible tables. And then like, would that work? And then my guess because while you’re working, you can have your table up. Yeah. And when you’re relaxing, you can put your table down. And they’re like, but where would I put this at the end? And I like collapsible table. I’m telling you, and all of my clients have loved it. So we had collapsible tables that go with the chairs? Yes, that we have in the living room that we now have our beds in. Yes. So those are the collapsible tables that you use. So you’re trying to have this fiction where you actually purchase your own classical tables specifically for just a few years. And that never happened. C  I remember buying them at Nitori. Very, K  okay. You went with me to buy them? Yes. Where they purchase for you to use as your office desk. No. C  Yeah, this is true. K  So something we brought from the United States that broke down that we replaced the ring on that I love that we still use our blender. Yeah. I love our blender. C  We’ve had to replace the rubber part a few times. Yeah. And there to prevent the motor from burning out. So yes, we have been bad people and use it to crush ice. K  Because I went through an ice chip phase. Yeah. So we’re using it to chip is this a good blender? Yes. Something else you brought? That I think was a waste your fishbone remover that you’ve never used to remove a single Fishbone from a single piece of fish. I know. C  And when I when I bought that Fishbone remover? Yeah. Because I thought wow, I cook a lot of fish now. I really need a fishbone and K  have we never get a piece of this? C  Yeah. So when I bought that fish remover. I wasn’t thinking about whether it’d be useful in Japan. K  So why did we bring it? Why do we still have it? C  It was a gift from you to me. You gave it to me as a gift. very excitedly. You’re like, be paid. I got you something. K  I did not give you the fishbone you did. You C  did. It’s from William Sonoma. You gave it to me K  that Oh, because that’s when you told me that You were gonna make me salmon. C  And I did make you salmon. I just didn’t use that thing. K  Because you bought burned salmon filets? Yes. Hello. Well, you told me that you were gonna fillet fish. C  I think. I think we had a breakdown in language there. K  So you cook me the list of shrimp? Yeah. I hardly ever want the shrimp. And you, you don’t cook me any fish at all. I’ll randomly go buy fish at the store when I’m craving it. But then cooking it is too much for me. Yeah, C  I bought y’all a couple of times. We’ve cooked a few fish. But, you know, I feel like one of the things that I like is that the grocery stores near enough I can go get prepared foods. And they always have well prepared fish. I feel like it’s much more efficient for them to cook 50 servings of this thing and then sell them then for me to cook one of my own. Yeah. So cooking for myself. Sometimes I feel like ecologically bad about it. K  I feel like if you’re planning a move to Japan, I think having a Western rice cooker. Yeah, because we have a Western rice cooker and I absolutely love. Alright, now we have a Japanese rice cooker. C  No. All right. Ours is still one load, Ron. Is it? Yeah. Japanese rice cooker. I don’t use the rice cooker. It was made by a Japanese company. But all of the buttons and everything are an English. K  Yeah. So like I would say absolutely bring all of your cooking all of your pots and pans. Because I wish we had brought all of our pots and pans. Yeah. And I wish we had brought all of our plates and glasses. And cutlery. So I think pack up your kitchen and bring your kitchen with you. Except for your baking pans. Bring your small. What do we have our nine by nines. Yeah. Bring all your nine by nine baking pans. But leave all your big, like broiler pans. Leave those. C  Yeah, unless you set up for especially you’re not cooking a sheet cake. K  Yeah, no, there’s no, you can’t cook a sheet cake. Right. Like we technically could because we have brailler pans that came with our oven. And we bought a boiler pan and additional boiler pan because I like to boil two things at once what I’m doing like my little, they like to make these dishes where you put food and aluminum foil and roll them up. Yeah. And I like to cook more than two rows of it because then it’s a 15 minute meal. And it microwaves beautifully. And you can reinvent it like once it’s cooked you can cook it a bunch of different other ways on the second cook. Yeah, add rice or add spice that’s really dead. And I would say don’t bring sweaters. C  Yeah, I think it depends on where you’re going to live. K  I know that they’ll bring bandanas because for some reason down dances are super expensive in Japan. Like when they sell them at the dollar store. I buy a bunch of them because they’re not natural. They’re not regularly stocked at the dollar store. And if for me, I feel like more than $1 more than shakin, 100 yen for $1 for a bandana is outrageous. just outrageous. I’m used to getting three, three or four for $1. Sometimes extra dollar. Yeah, you’re C  not used to like $9 A piece. K  Right? So I went to the store one day I was gonna buy bandanas and I was like, Okay, wait, I’m not paying $9 For a single bandana. Like I was an undershirts and underclothes. Lots and lots of underwear. C  Unless you like going to the convenience store and buying underwear. Like which is really only an option for men. K  So if you’d like bikini cut underwear. If if you like wearing female underwear, that is bikini cut, you’ll be fine. And if you’re within the size ranges, yeah. So for me, I’m a big girl. I don’t like bikini cut, and I don’t wear a thong anymore. I’m done like my thong years are behind me. And I find that I can’t find comfortable cuts. And then also I’d like to wear the boxer briefs. Yeah. And they don’t make boxer briefs in my size and the cut of the boxer briefs are strange here in Japan. Like men’s underwear in Japan. They have like a little pouch sewn into them. Yes for the business and I find in the in the US. The pouch can lay flush, or the pouch can purge out but it’s a flexible pouch. Right right. Other than a cut in pouch that’s rigid. Yeah. Which I think it’s weird. C  It’s not comfortable. It’s not quite codpiece, but it’s very much longer. K  So I think the biggest practical thing is and I love the fact that we brought our umbrellas, but they’ve since turned to dust. C  I had one stolen because it was just too beautiful. The frogs? No, not the frogs. The frogs wore out the butterflies that I got in Sweden. K  Oh, yeah. Yeah, that was a gorgeous umbrella. C  Got it the natural Museum of History. Yeah. K  So I would say, think about, like, if you’re going to be bringing stuff, think about, like, go online, and figure out how big a tatami is. And I would say create that with something that you own. Like, if you can get a towel. That’s the length of autonomy, or something because everything is to Tommy size. Or if C  you have a laundry room, that’s probably about the size of a standard bedroom here in Japan. K  Yeah. And do the layout and think to yourself, like the tatami still Jacks me up. I know for me, like, our current bedroom is really small. So our living room was only five and a half to Tommy big. But that’s because it’s supposed to be our dining room. Which is weird to me. Yeah. Because after kitchen is supposed to be the living room and for my American brain, if it’s off of the kitchen as the dining room. Hello. But it’s actually supposed to be the living room. And that’s like, eight to Tommy or eight and a half? I don’t know. C  Yeah, I couldn’t. We’re looking the other day for this. And I could find certification on the total square area, but not of the rooms. K  Yeah, and familiarize yourself with a measuring tape. If you’re coming from specifically the United States, where we’re the only one of the few countries, not the only, like one of three countries that uses Imperial measurements. It’s going to take a minute for you to get used to you will get used to it. I don’t say that you’ll know the metric but you’ll get used to it. But C  even if you use it even if you work in centimeters all the time. I haven’t seen any metal tape here. K  Yeah, I haven’t seen any metal lock tape. Everything’s a really soft, like, everything’s a soft floppy. took your hands you can find Yeah, C  maybe. Tape. I know it’s from measuring around curves, like specifically measuring people. You don’t want your Craftsman metal tape when you’re measuring some somebody’s waist. But K  yeah, yeah, think about the types of things that that you want to do. And the type of lifestyle that you want to have. But definitely, we’re always telling everybody to look at floor plans. And it’s not a joke. It’s because don’t look at the the square footage. Because there are some bedrooms that are honest to goodness as big as a single bed. Yes. And that’s all it will fit in it is a single bed. And like you have to exit it. You have to crawl up the end of your bed. Because side to side you’re touching. C  Yeah, think like you’ve heard of capsule hotels. It’s a capsule bedroom. K  Completely capsule bedroom. So look at floor plans and think about what is useful to you. Not what sparks joy, or none of that. What do you use? What will you use on a regular basis? And then think about what would you use in a room? That is always 80 degrees? Because inside for some reason? 80 degrees is the temperature in Japan for inside not your own home? Yeah, that’s the between 70 and 80. C  That’s the cool bill. Yeah, yeah, that’s the cool business policy that that only started being the case in like 2012. K  Yeah. And I love a hoodie, but they’re just, I don’t know, they’re just, they’re viewed as low class here. So even if you’re wearing a nice hoodie, so I would say invest in a nice one nice jacket. So if you’re going shopping, or you’re going someplace where you don’t want to be viewed as homeless, have something other than 30 C  Well, and one final thing is not to bring but to be aware of if you are moving here with a job, and the company is like you’re gonna live in company housing. Oh, you are you are being taken for a ride on the rent. If you’re gonna be here for more than a minute. K  Yeah, in it. I think next month we’re doing moving. Yeah. And living. Yeah, we’re doing that next month because we’re masters moving We’ll probably have, that’ll be on my mind. As we talk about what lately I’m talking about fresh up to date info. Yep. And what’s lately what’s been on my mind for the take two is things easy. We’ll pull up, we’re in Volume Two of the evening. And we have our second author nuts, and so super excited about that. And we’ve done away with their outro and our intro because we’re wiling out here. C  Okay, that’s what the description is for. K  So we hope that you had a good time listen to this just ramble on mostly about clothing that we shouldn’t have bought. And I’m sorry, like, you know, truth bombing, Rosta like that, but it is what it is. So thank you so much. All of our beautiful music mills. We’re so happy that you listen, we value each and every listen, and we’re so happy that we’re in. I’m doing the release of roof motion. We’re so happy that we’re in the top 10 on player FM spin, like, I don’t know, like three or four months now. Yeah, it’s gonna say and if you follow us on over to the tech team become our patron you have over like several 100 things that you can download and listen to C  and I think it’s like over 100 I think several 100 Is is a bridge too far K  for me when they’re listening to this. C  Okay, fair point. Yeah, K  well follows on over to the take today. We’re gonna talk about all things eating. Bye

K  So lately I’ve been thinking about American snow versus Japanse snow, and more specifically like California snow versus Nagoya snow versus Hokkaido snow and Asahikawa specifically in Hokkaido. Never been to – what’s the famous city for snow in Hokkaido? C  Sapporo. K  Yeah, we’ve never been to Sapporo. So, and then comparing and contrasting that to what you describe as Alaskan snow. C  Well, I’m full disclosure. It is snowing here. We woke up to a snowy day. K  Yeah. So yesterday. It was It started snowing here in Nagoya, which is really early. Because it usually snows in I want to say February. C  Yeah. Usually, like the first week of February. K  Yeah. So it’s really early. So I was like, Ooh, snow day. And then we woke up and today it was like really snowy like it. It snowed all night. And for me, it’s really exciting when there’s like two inches of snow on the ground. I’m like, Oh my gosh, there’s like an inch of snow on our balcony rail. And you can see the snow falling down on like snow day snow day. It’s snowing. Like, is super, super exciting. Yeah, I am totally like singing that song and everything with just knowing Japanese. I like it was such like a lot long, because I was like, hey, there’s snow on our balcony and you’re like, Uh huh. It’s just like dead air. C  I think you’re describing last year because I was excited this year. I pointed it out to you. K  Yeah, but when I start talking about the details of the snow, okay. Yeah, it’s very warm up like it is snow falling from the sky. There’s like two inches on the ground. C  Maybe because you’ve been watching hot ones. I’m thinking like, okay, yeah, you’re describing to me that you just found sriracha sauce. And you like it but you don’t like Tabasco. K  What are you talking about? C  You’re like discussing K  I don’t like hot sauce because I don’t like vinegar based beverages and vinegar based sauces. I know that and say that’s like, I can handle spice. I made my own hot sauce. C  And I’m saying on the snow thing. I don’t think you can handle spice. I don’t think you could handle spicy snow. K  So now when we went to I asked him when he went to Asahikawa I said, now do you feel like I’ve really been in snow. I feel like you’ve been in snow. But you were like this is still nothing compared to Alaska. C  Because it didn’t snow while we were there. There was snow and there was ice. It was cold. There ice sculptures. He was it was a wonderful trip. But you didn’t wake up like unable to open your door because it’s not so much. K  We were staying in a really fancy hotel but we saw snow drifts as tall as me. See from cleaning the snow off the road. C  That makes it a snow bank but not a snow drift. Okay. Yeah, language. K   So we saw snow banks those banks. Yes. Thanks to any as tall as you know. And you’re like this still isn’t real snow. Like it’s snow, but it’s not Alaska. Yeah. So what’s Alaska snow? What’s the difference? C  What depends on where you are. Cuz like if you’re in Juneau, it rarely snows. And down in Sitka, where like the TV shows like yukon gold on such snow is like, unusual happens every year. But it’s like having a really hard rain in the San Francisco Bay area. It happens but it’s not all the time. But rain is not unusual. Real snow is like the cold that goes with it. So what I think is, if you can make a snowball, it’s probably not that cold. K  We talking about if you can make a snowball. That’s probably not that cold. C  Okay, so I spent most of my childhood in Fairbanks which you know, yeah. K  And our music not to Okay. They remember you. Our music knows love you, baby. They really do. I know that they don’t tweet at you that they love you. But in my heart. I feel like every music note is a huge shad fan. Yeah. And they just absolutely love and love you. And remember all the details that you share about you. Excellent. Yeah, you’re a total rock star in their mind. C  So it was more than 30 years ago. K  And they remember you from more than 30 years ago, even though we’ve only had another one cast. C  Yeah. And the ones who aren’t even 30. Yeah. K  How long have we had the podcast? Like? Not quite C  three years. Okay, May will be three years. K  So we started it in May. We started in May and there was no snow. See, I brought this back around. You’re just gonna segue back into what you were saying. Yeah. And I want to see to show everybody at home that I can. I can bring us back around. C  You can maneuver at even when there’s snow, K  thank you see, but that was like a hard push. I feel like mine was more like a snuff, snuff. Oh yeah, it was snow soft. It was not. It was a soft landing. I’m just gonna make that part of the lexicon. Well, it’s thinking it’s like a soft landing into snow. And that turned into soft in my brain. Yeah. So it’s a soft landing in the snow. But Snow is not soft. And that always disappoints me that snow is not soft, even if you crack like the ice layer over the snow, like. So. For those that have never experienced now I’m going to talk about my experience with snow. And I’m going to have Chad talk about Alaska snow delays aside to interrupt him, because Hello, it’s the music’s in Japan. Thank you. Lovely to be if I didn’t interrupt you to just blather on about something some other podcast. Right? So I think that would be the writer strike on my solo podcast where there’s no one to interrupt. This is why I don’t do the interviews. Yeah. I’m a horrible interviewer. I think, like I can think of really great interview questions. But at the end of the day, I feel like a horrible interviewer. C  I think the tempo is odd to you. Like when we see because you and I like to watch interviews. Yeah, I love what interviewers just have a tempo. K  They do they have been up but up but up but up. And it’s so weird, because you would think as a professional therapist, I would be good at interviewing people. C  Yeah, but I feel like interviewing is making the conversation interesting. And therapy was making the conversation meaningful. K  Yes. And I think I find things when they’re not meaningful. I tend to be like, Okay, you bored me? Right. And I think that’s what makes me a bad interviewer. Because if the answer bores me, I want to cut it off. C  Yeah, I think that does make you not a great interviewer, but a very good therapist and coach. K  Yeah, because I’m also an executive coach. I’m transitioning from therapy to executive coach. But other than me, because you’ve been executive coach me. I’ve been executive coaching for the past 10 years. But that wasn’t my main state. There was an I’m switching my main site to executive coaching, because of a myriad of reasons. All of them positive. I think I feel for me, it’s just growth, professional growth. But for me, I feel like if someone bores me, Why let them go on and see the disappointment in my face. And I just I think makes me a bad interviewer. Because when I was interviewing on the virus trial, I had to interview Rasta, and it was just so boring. I was like, there’s a better more. I know that you have a better answer. Why aren’t you getting it? Right? Try this out. Yeah, I feel the same way with you. Like, why are you saying this thing? That’s so boring when you have like, a way more interesting answer. Because I know you so well. But I feel like I pretty much know everybody that would be in a situation to interview. Yeah, C  you know me snow. Well, yeah, I K  know you snow. Well, because we’re doing that now because I did soft. Yes. And so blame it on me. Don’t blame Chad for this one. And why does the customer thing. So we started in May, there was no snow, the snow now, snow is not soft, snow is wet and hard. And that’s always been disappointing to me. So snow is wet. And then because it’s wet, it gets like a heart I show over it that you can crack that. So this is my Stokes to experience. And my snow experience comes mostly from Tahoe in California, which is not the northern part of the state. And it’s I think it’s like the most northern part of the state. Yeah, C  right on the border with Nevada because Nevada is part of the town is Yeah, K  so when it was snow, like it was snow overnight and the snow would freeze. And frozen snow is weird to me. And you can like some of it you can crack the ice some of it you can’t crack the ice it’s just turned into ice now it’s it’s like snow colored ice. We can crack the the ones that you can crack the ice when you get underneath it. It’s fluffy, but it’s not soft and fluffy and wet so it’s just wet. And that’s always been disappointing to me how wet snow is like I know the science behind snow but I just wish that snow was dry. C  see snow is dry if it’s cold enough. K  Yeah, yeah. Because you’ve had soft snow C  Yeah, like when I went with you had soft. Oh, you’re saying powder like soft. K  But I don’t feel like powder when they call it powder. I don’t feel like it’s soft, powdery snow. I feel like that is a ski term and it’s not actually the texture of powder. I’ve touched now that’s supposed to be the texture of powder and did not feel like powder and I was really disappointed. C  Okay, possibly boring digression. Okay. One of the clients that I use K  please don’t interrupt me, I really want to say this C  when I was an editor full time, one of my clients worked at the and I forget the full name of it. But there’s a Japanese Institute for studying textiles. And one of the things I study is how soft things feel. Okay. And so he studied how soft fabrics feel. And what makes fabric feel soft. Yeah. And no, it doesn’t have the spring Enos that makes it feel soft, because if you press that hit compact, yes. But it really feels soft. When you’re jumping off the second story of a building into a big pile of snow. And it catches you and like, crunches down at a rate that it’s not at all painful to jump off of a second storey building. Have you done this? Many many times? K  Don’t do this. You don’t know what’s in us now. Like what if a passport because so for me, I’m obsessed with people jumping on the pitchforks, okay. And that’s because it’s fork in my life. And hey, so we would go to Alabama every summer watch the music that’s already now. And almost every summer somebody would jump onto a pitchfork. And I never understood why. And I think that one of my cousins is like super mean, and super angry. The oldest of my, one of my uncle’s caves is super mean. And I think that I believe that he buried the pitchfork in the hay. And people will always come a C  because I was like, you’re talking about jumping onto a pitchfork. Like you’re talking about jumping at a hay, which is not jumping in a snow. K  And hey, it’s not soft. Like I would go on hay bale. Right. I went on one table, right. I never went again. Because it was so uncomfortable. It was so itchy and poking through. It ran my stockings for once. I was just way too cute. I didn’t get why everybody wore overalls. Like that’s what you’re wearing. Yeah, I want to look cute. I’m going on a date. You know, I want to look cute. Okay, but C  when Mad Money you’re cute outfits was overalls. Several you’re cute K  because this is like see this impacted me for the rest of my life. C  And did you realize that overalls are cute? Yeah, overalls, K  overalls with like, a sports bra is extremely sexier overalls with the crop top. Get that little you know, side. Pika scan. Yeah, we’re like, you’re like flashing a little bit, but not really flashing anything. And I had the sexiness of overalls explained to me, after my lines are ran and I looked a mess. And my cousin explained to me why overalls are sexy on women and what it means and all of this, which I don’t buy into anymore. Plus, they’re super comfy. So I was like, Okay, people think this is attractive. So I’ll wear it. Yeah. And that was because of that, hey, they’ll write the one and only ever went on. I was invited on many. And I’m like, No, I don’t want to write on that hard thing. And then people were like, Hey, let’s jump from the second story of the bar. And I’m like, you guys should check for pitchforks. Like, there’s no pitchforks. We clean the hand. I’m like, every summer. Every summer, I come here and every summer, one of y’all jump from the thing onto pitchfork. And so what happens is several people can jump and they don’t land on a pitch for like the first person is considered the bravest. I feel like the fifth person is the bravest, because by then the haze displaced, but not displaced enough to build a pitch for and pitchfork does damage like a pitchfork could kill you. And I really believe that. My mean cousin did it on purpose every year C  probably do because I have a lot of mean people in your family as do I. K  Yeah, my family is super mean. So that made me paranoid about jumping in snow. I don’t like to jump in things that I can’t know what like watch it be constructed and know that it’s sick. Okay, I C  was just gonna say this is cases where I had constructed it myself because I made money sometimes pushing and pushing snow off of roofs because in Fairbanks, the snowpack gets so deep, it will damage your roof, K  which is just the bomb to watch. Like I watch it for hours on YouTube. Yeah, snap being removed from risks. I just love it. I love the string ones that C  she’s cut her teeth cutter. K  I love that. C  So I do that. And so I did that for our house. Me and my brothers did that for our house. And then we bought a snow plow. Like a not a mechanical one just as big scoop that you could take up on the roof. Yeah. And then I also did a lot of unpaid labor for the Mormons of pushing the snow off of us. K  And so my paranoia would be that somebody at a spike would put a really sharp snow shovel in that my life They would put the snow shovel on the ground so that they could feign ignorance that there was a snow shovel in the snow. And so he would just leave it there and it would be underneath the snow that was already on the ground. Yeah. So when you’re shoveling it, you don’t really when you’re taking it off the roof. You don’t realize that they’re at the very bottom of all of this snow is a snow shovel that can slice you in half. That’s my big. I don’t want to be sliced in half. I think jumping off the sea. C  Like I do want to be sliced in half. Like I don’t want to be sliced in half. K  I don’t want it. I feel like you don’t care. You’re like Danger Mouse. You don’t care. Like I’ll risk being sliced in half. C  This was 30 years ago. Yeah. 30 years ago. You’re K  like I hang out with people who might not. You couldn’t get sliced in half. 30 years ago you could and they’re C  okay. If you could K  the sites you are now serve as a third of the size I am not we’re salt and pepper shakers. I C  answer me this. K  Is it Riddle me this answer me. This C  is me. This is I don’t want you to rattle me. K  Riddle you with with ice picks? C  Right. If people could get sliced in half by jumping into snow. Yeah. Do you know anybody now who got sliced in half 30 years ago by jumping in the snow? K  They didn’t know anybody who’s ever been sliced in half. It’s just the fear I have. It’s a phobia. I didn’t know what the name of the phobia is. But I’m terrified of being sliced in half. And like I worry at random times. Like I just worry. So when I used to ride motorcycles like on the back of motorcycles I don’t ever ride on the front, because I don’t know how to drive a motorcycle. But I would really be worried and I would wonder if they got sliced in half if I could jump off the bike and time to not get sliced in half. C  Yeah on that. I don’t know cuz I only knew one person who got sliced in half in Fairbanks when I was there. And they were on a snowmobile not not not a motorcycle, but it’s exactly what you’re thinking. Like they were riding a snowmobile really fast and there was a wire at the right level that just cut them. K  So why are you so reckless? You know, someone’s been sliced in half. I don’t. But you know, it’s a real thing that can happen that people are just wiling out riding snowmobiles, jumping off buildings. Why are you wiling out? Like your life was so dangerous, people were getting injured, like seriously injured all of the time. One of your best friends got blown up, like come on. C  I mean, among the like, I wasn’t the fundamentalist Mormons, but among the fundamentalist Mormons, 30% of boys don’t reach adulthood. They died before adulthood, that is wild, right? And you’re doing the stuff that they do the stuff that they do, like, this is population action, unpaid labor, like K  that has wild to me, like you tell me like, one in 10 of my friends is going to die doing this free? How do I know? Three in 10? That’s wild. So three and 10 people are gonna die doing living the way you’re living? How do you know you’re not one of the three? I mean, you know now because retrospect right? But how did you know then that you weren’t one of the three? Or were you just like wiling out and like I don’t care? C  I was like, it’s out of my control. K  How is it out of your control? C  I mean, so obviously, this is gonna be like things that if you’re going to be traumatized by death, you should, you should click off the episode, but K  is there a target talking about people dying on the snow episode, but now I’m interested like, why that is so wild. Like how can I have been with you? for over 22 years? And I don’t know that three in 10 people in your age demographic when you were younger died doing the same stuff you were doing? Who am I not saying that your childhood was just so dangerous? C  Yeah, I don’t know. So, K  like all your broken noses and broken bones and stuff, but I’m still just like, Okay, that was up wild. walking down stairs. C  No suicides. Just like, yeah, suicide deaths. When I was in junior high school, two students died of accidents. Okay, I almost died in an accident. I lost. I lost teeth. K  Okay, no road bridge because you didn’t change your ways. After that. My tire C  got stuck in the railroad tracks. And while I was riding my bike down the railroad, K  uh huh. Why are you riding a bike down the railroad? C  Because it was only way across the bridge. Okay. Is a railroad bridge. K  Okay. Yeah, I know what you’re talking about. There’s no other way to do it. Right. It’s very standby news like 10 miles to the other bridge. Yeah, very stand by me for that. C  My freshman year, K  and with dead bodies and bullies Very stand by me. C  My freshman year of high school, a girl named Karen Zastrow got kidnapped and murdered. K  Don’t say people’s name now that’s too dark. Well, buddy, this is snow episode. I’m just saying lowdown I look, C  I looked it up later and they did eventually catch the people who did it. K  But wow, that took a time that C  did take multiple people from my high school dive in plane crashes. K  Like this is not the death episodes. Stop. Okay, please. Crickets Crikey. C  Okay, so the point is, K  why are you wiling out that way? Like, why are you living that way? Okay. C  The point is, I did not feel like I was taking a particular risk by jumping off of a building into a six foot pile of snow that I had just made. K  So for me, like I would open my mouth and let people throw drugs in my mouth, that I knew exactly zero people that died of a drug overdose. And I studied, like, how do people die of drug overdoses like what causes drug overdoses, and I built up my talents, and I knew how much I could do. And I knew at the, at the pinnacle of my drug use that I was the pinnacle of a drug user, your mind C  does not so small that you could meter it. So they could only throw a certain amount of drugs in there. K  You ask them what they flicked into your mouth afterwards. And then you know what you can put on top of it. Like, okay, C  so you’re not worried about what they might flick in your mouth. You just don’t want to interaction with anything you do later in the evening. K  Right? So you have to keep track of like what you’ve done that night. Like I’m not promoting drug use, don’t use drugs. Drugs are bad, C  whether I take my medication for the day. K  Yeah, so I know that I always started with a methamphetamine base, a methamphetamine and a tequila base. And so with the methamphetamine, tequila base, I know what I can add into the night, that’ll be good or bad. Okay, and with each new thing, like if someone’s flicking some acid into your mouth, you’re good for the rest of the night. Like you don’t want anything else. Or if you’re adding Special K, you don’t want anything else, or someone’s giving you like GBH or MDMA or like you just have to know what they gave you after they gave it to you to know what the ride is going to be, and to know if you should add any more passengers in. And so like, most times, if someone flipped drugs and tie him up, I would stop drinking. C  Yet this is not the kiss for that I met. K  No, this is not because for the Met was only doing tequila and alcohol. Yeah, I had already quit all of my illicit drugs. And one time we were hanging out, and I think I’ve talked about this before, on the podcast. He had, we had gotten pipes for a friend of ours. And I stumbled across some weed that I had had for like forever. And I’m like, I wonder if the sweetest snail is stale. Not snail is stale. And I told you I shouldn’t smoke it because I get paranoid or I clean. And I didn’t know which one I would do and so I smoked it and I got super paranoid. And I told you sees why I don’t smoke it like because you’re always going off and smoking weed. I’m like weed is not good for me. Like for like of all the drugs. The worst drug I’ve ever done is marijuana like the worst trips I’ve ever had? have been on marijuana and marijuana is classified the same as LSD. In terms of the drug chart for psychoactive it’s a psychotropic C  Yeah, I hadn’t smoked any since after you and I became a couple. K  No, you smoked one more time. One more time. Yeah, he smoked one more time. And after we were a couple because you went up and that was the orgy. And your friend’s sister came and was like trying to get you to have sex with them. And you’re like, I don’t want to have sex on C  this representation. Hmm. They did not do that K  is what happened. The music notes. No, this is what happened because already hashed it out. So if you want to know like, go back, and and you can get the full story. And you’ll see that I was totally right. Because when we hashed it out, Chad confesses that yeah, they want to totally. They totally want to fuck Chad. C  But in your mind, everybody does. Because who wouldn’t? K  Know? Every time I’ve said somebody wants to fuck you, you’re like, I don’t believe it. And I’m not gonna say who cuz I’m not gonna put them on blast like that. But we had somebody who was like, Come away with me. And let’s stay in the same hotel. And I was like, when you write up the elevator, you need to make it really clear that they’re never gonna go to your hotel room. Yeah. And then in retrospect, you’re like, that was a good tip that you gave me. Yes, because they would have wanted to come into my hotel room because they want to have sex with me. Damn. C  And I’m like, Why? Why? K  I don’t Yes, sexy beast. C  I don’t have body dysmorphia. Like simply those who do. But I just think why K  when I first met you, I told you you look like someone who’s good at sex. Yeah, you did say that. And so for me, I’m like, You look like someone who’s good at sex. C  Okay. And you know, do you know how I learned from reading books? Well, Australia tell you because I’ve been too afraid to tell you the real story. Okay, that’s K  the real story. Snow. That was awesome. Sorry for clapping. But that was the bomb. That was awesome. That was a good like, bring around because I’m like, I can talk about chat all day, which is so strange. If you follow us on Twitter, you’re like, but you guys aren’t having sex. And then like, but we used to, and I remember it. We’re just not doing it right now. Because we’re recording recording a podcast. Like we’re not wiling out like, C  I got a new mic. So thank you. So patrons who funded that? Yes. Thank you. patrons. We love you. And even with the new mic, it would be very hard to record. K  Yeah, it would be and it would be so obvious. Whenever someone’s having sex, even when they think they’re doing it discreetly in public places. That is so obvious. But then you don’t spot it. I spotted because I added music parts and stuff. I’m like, they’re having sex right now. Yeah. What are you talking about? I’m C  like, look at them. That’s why you always pointed out? K  Yeah, I do. Because if I see something, like if I see hard nipples on anyone, male or female, I’m like, nipples. Look, if I see underwear, I’m like underwear look. And if I see people having sex in public, I’m like they’re having sex look. Yes. Even if they’re doing it in the snow and getting frostbite. Yes, I bought it back around. Thank you. Okay, so you jumped off of and you’re saying that it’s soft, if you jump up into it, and I don’t think that C  I’m saying it doesn’t feel soft. But because it breaks your fall. You consider that soft? Yeah. Because Fairbanks is cold enough that the snow is crystal like crystals are very small. Okay. So it’s very fluffy unless it’s like, late. K  But even a glass snow is super fluffy. Right? So when I touch it with my finger and push it down, knowing Yeah, it’s not fluffy or enjoyable. If I work thermodynamic gloves, it’s still not fluffy, right? So C  it’s warm enough here in the quiet and it wasn’t a shakeout that when you push the snow down, the pressure makes it warm enough to partially melt. And when then you let it go. It refreezes into ice. K  So even when I catch the snowflakes, I don’t stick my tongue out because I don’t know where that air has been. Yeah. C  That air that you’re already breathing. K  That’s so different than putting it in my mouth. Like putting something that formed in it in my mouth. I don’t know what that snow has captured. Okay. I always thought it’s really gross when people like stick their tongue out in the snow. C  Well, when you and I were kids, I think you were still a kid acid rain. Yes, that is exactly what it’s K  like seriously, like in California, when it would rain. There was a point in time in my childhood, where you were advised to not leave your home because of the acid rain. C  Yes. And that’s what I exactly was gonna say is that that was the big thing was it’s acid rain, and it’s acid snow. And look, this fell on this forest and all of the trees died. K  Yes. and Canada was suing. Yeah, Canada was suing the United States because our acid rain was destroying Canada, right? Because it wasn’t doing anything. And we were just like, wiling out and polluting everything. And in Canada in the United States. And we made so much pollution in the United States that the the wind carried the pollution to Canada and Canada sued us. Yes. State. The country, one country sued another country over destroying the air quality. Yeah, it was so tragic. So that does stick with me. And I’m like, I don’t know what’s in the snow. I don’t know what it’s gathered. Right. You know, I know I’m breathing it in. But it’s different than like, ooh, let me get more. C  Yeah, it does concentrate like food. The fish are not inherently poisonous. That’s what they eat em concentrate. snuck me the same way. K  So did you guys have acid snow in Alaska? We didn’t. C  It was a big topic of conversation, because there was concern about it because Fairbanks was a very industrial town. So lots of pollution, K  and lots of oil production. C  Yeah. And Fairbanks itself is in a valley. So we get thermal inversion, which would make like really, really bad air quality days. But those are not the same days that snowed mostly K  because they were worried that the tea would come together. So I feel like my experience of California snow has been one of really dangerous snow and really fun snow. So like when I was a kid, it was I learned the snow was really dangerous because all of my childhood experiences with snow something bad always happened. Like there was, you know, lots of years of acid snows So we couldn’t go play in the snow. And then as soon as acid though stopped, my dad lived up in the hills. My mom was like, Okay, you can go to your dad and spend time in the snow. And I was obsessed with freezing my hands in the snow, and getting severe frostbite and frostbite doesn’t hurt. Recovering from frostbite. That hurts. That has to be seriously the most painful thing I’ve ever experienced. But as soon as my hands were healed, and they would let me out, of course, I would promise not to do it again. C  Even though having had frostbite does make you more susceptible to in the future. K  Ideal. And so the second time I went out barefoot, because it was on your feet. Yes, was my thing. And then when my feet healed because I couldn’t walk, but before my feet have fully healed, I crawled out in the snow, took off my shirt and everything and laid back and arms out in the snow. And they freaked I didn’t get frostbite that time because they were like, Okay, we can’t trust this little person. And they are completely irresponsible in the snow. And for me, snow and sand were the same thing. And so I was really young, and sound sound but the same thing to me. And they like structurally C  they’re, they’re not that different. They’re both crystalline, like, piles of crystals. K  Yeah, so I had to stay in the hospital. That was me as a kid. And then me as an adult. I’ve never been on skis. But I would go disc sliding, which is different than sled. It’s different than landslides. Like you sit in a desk and you hurtle down with no steering or anything. And you just hope that you land someplace safe, and not ram into a tree. So that’s way dangerous, but nobody I knew ever rammed into a tree even though you didn’t know Sonny Bono. Yeah, even though we were like, sliding down a mountain into a forest. Yeah. And it was really fun to go whizzing past the trees. And now I’m just like horrified thinking back of my younger self has been like, sliding through the trees. And like hoping to catch a sight of a deer or something. Because just flying at this point through the trees. C  Yeah, I think my equivalent would be there was a hill outside of town. It was like a mile long, it was straight. So we’d walk up it and then slid down the whole hill. Yeah, but it was an active road. So it was like, everybody, look. We had walkie talkies. Because this was before cellphones were widely available. We had walkie talkies. And so we’re like, is there anybody down? Coming? Like no. K  If we did not indulge in the slide, in Asahikawa and we don’t indulge in the snow slide here in Nagoya. And I just, I don’t know, I used to love slides. Like I used anything with a slide. I was a huge waterpark fan and everything. But by the time we had met, I was over waterparks I feel like I didn’t like being a parent at a waterpark. Yeah, we went to a couple and it’s just so not fun. Because if you standing at top to make sure that the kid is okay. And me standing at the bottom to make sure the kid is okay. Yeah. And it’s no, like you don’t get to do anything fun. And it’s the same. The same thing happened with snow slides. Like okay, you take them to the top. I’ll be waiting at the bottom. Let’s keep this kids safe. Yeah. And Ross didn’t get to do any of the wild stuff we did because we didn’t have any parental parental supervision. I think this is more like snow with parental supervision without delivery guys. It’s no different snow experiences. My mike want to start snowing even now to this day, I text rasa Dunkwa without your gloves. Make sure you wear your gloves. And he’s like, I’m not wearing my gloves. And if he comes over not wearing gloves, I will scold him at 27 years old object. What are you doing? It’s snowing. Okay. You want to get fast by their fingers are blue. C  Is there snow on the street? Then you can’t drive? Yeah, I don’t like him driving like today. There’s no snow on the street. It’s melting on the street. Yeah. But then I K  feel like black ice and so today Ross is not driving or going anywhere. Faster staying home because yes, I did test last tax class to stay home actually asked Roscoe to stay home yesterday because it snowed a little bit yesterday. And so we planned everything’s that Rasika stay home today. Yes. So that’s snow with parental supervision and no fun, C  like snow as it as an old person was a middle aged person. I just wanted to know can I do laundry today? K  So do you think if you were in Alaska, if we had lived in Alaska that you would have been okay with roster jumping off of the roof, for any reason, C  I don’t think I would have. I K  might not because you were just like professing. So we should say like all of the stuff we’re describing. Don’t do it. Like don’t do drugs. Don’t let people don’t take drugs that you don’t know what they are, that can kill you. I was incredibly stupid, incredibly young and incredibly lucky. Don’t ride a snow don’t get on a snow disk, like a round plastic disc at the top of the hill that has forest at the bottom. You can. I was again, incredibly young, incredibly stupid and incredibly lucky. I feel C  like the relative risk though. Take the snow disc between the K  two. Don’t do either. There’s no reason to do either. Like both things that I did were incredibly reckless. But here’s the thing. I never did drugs in the snow because I knew that I would get frostbite from when I was young. And I liked the buzz of I like the buzz of getting frostbite. Yeah, don’t don’t get frostbite. There are easier ways to get a buzz. C  Give me a buzz by the way. K  It gave me a rush. Yeah, like when I was little I was addicted to danger. We had like this furnace. Great. I told the story before. And we had a heater in the floor and I was like, Don’t step on it. It’ll burn your feet. And I got third degree burns because I stepped on it. And so here’s the thing while you’re damaging your body, it doesn’t usually hurt. It’s when your body realizes it’s been damaged. Yes. So for me, I always felt like the people who were saving me and giving me recovery. Were the ones hurting me like the fire didn’t hurt me. Your reaction to me touching the fire hurt me. Yeah, the Frostbite didn’t hurt me. Your reaction to the Frostbite hurt me? Yeah. Because that’s that’s still like more than the fire. The most mind bending, painful thing I’ve ever experienced or is bad. Yeah, it’s so. So so bad. I’ve have C  I’ve had frostbite multiple times and it is bad. If K  flu. It is mind blowingly bad. Like really? Just me holding this ball of snow. Yeah, I’ve C  never gotten frostbite from holding snow. K  I told you I they’ve heard me say before we went to cycads like don’t let me touch the snow. C  Yeah, like the time I got frostbite is because I had been you know, abandoned 10 miles outside of town and I was K  gonna be like healing clue neglectful parenting story. Yeah, clue tragedy. Yeah, clue. Cue. I can’t talk today. C  But I think also my my views on child labor have changed and K  now I’m saying if we have shoveled the snow, right, okay. Would you let roster jump off of the roof and anything because I’m against jumping off of roofs? Like I’ve never jumped off a roof, which is wild. Consider the other things I’ve done with my body. Right. It’s the pitchfork thing. The pitchfork thing really C  pitchfork in the snow. Yes, I K  was you. That’s a real risk. Yes. pitchforks are just in the randomness of places. Okay, C  let me ask you this. But have you ever seen anybody step on a rake and get bumped in the head? I K  knew you were gonna ask me. The answer’s yes. On a rake is just another pitchfork. It’s a shorter it’s a short pitchfork. Yeah. But I’ve seen lots of people do it and I have been responsible for it and advertently because one of my jobs was to rake the front yard. And I raked the front yard. And then I was sweeping. I had rake the front yard and I had raked. I had done the edger and I had raked up all the edgings and then you have to sweep the sidewalk after you do all of that. So I had put the edger and the rake up at the top right at the front of the gate. Okay, and so they open the gate and before they could even sit cuz it was on the walkway, right? They stepped on it and got slammed in the head. And they got spiked in their feet. C  So you were seven. Was this funny? No, I wasn’t seven. I was 12 Okay, I knew you were like way too young to be doing yard work. K  Unpaid yard work otherwise no, I got an allowance. I was paid. It was my chore. C  Yeah, this is a topic for another fun K  yeah, we’re against chores Rasta got free money. Yeah, his whole life Ross is like the most loyal person on earth. The most pampered and I could be like over parents eat and over pampered and C  I could do that because I started working when I was eight K  I didn’t do that because I started working when I was four or five putting my mother put together PC boards at home. C  Yeah, so K  yeah, yeah. Good dancing on our sides. So would you let Ross to play in the snow the way you played in the snow? Yeah, C  I would let him play in the snow the way I did. But not jumping off the roof. Not jumping off the roof because that to me that wasn’t playing in the snow that was like the reward for shoveling off the snow. K  So like the end of your high day Yeah. Jump off into the snow cuz that’s how you get off the roof. Right like they took away the ladder because you’re staying up there. A little snotty nose brat until you clean our roof you know way down C  you agree we don’t have to pay you K  like my sound way down. I’ll jump. C  Yeah, exactly like I would I would do this now I get to jump off my first like real job. No, like my fifth real job. I worked at a flooring store and the installers were like, you know, I installed the carpet. I get to have a beer and like should you wait till you get home? K  I installed the carpet I drank type peaked I had to reinstall that. C  We had one installer who Berber carpet is 13 and a half feet wide instead of 12 feet wide. So K  I don’t like Berber carpet. I think it’s industrial carpet and I know people like to put it in apartments because it is industrial. C  So I was like why does this guy work for us? Like because he’s the best installer like one of the best installers. I’m not gonna say his name even though he’s probably dead because I live. K  So for Berber Berber cop, a Berber carpet reference that people can globally look up on YouTube is if you look at the TV show The Office, the carpet that they had on that set for the TV show is Berber. C  Well that’s industrial Berber. So there’s also residential Barbara which the loops are a lot bigger and softer. K  And then No they’re not. And then there’s some not to me. C  And then there’s something called cut and loop where it’s a Berber carpet, but some of the loops have been cut open so that has some parts that are straight and not soft. It that is not soft. That is terrible. Yeah. K  None no Berber. I’ve never stepped on a soft Berber carpet and that it’s bad for the earth. It’s made of plastic. C  So this guy was an alcoholic. And he he got us up. He got somebody not me because I wouldn’t have done it. Yeah, somebody to load up his van with the carpet. He was already drunk. He drove out to the client’s house. And he couldn’t remember where the keys were supposed to catch. So he drove through the garage door and stopped the carpet. story. K  I feel so bad for the homeowner. Oh, we had to pay for it. Yeah, but could you imagine coming home? Yeah, that is the biggest What the fuck ever? Like, What in the fuck but your carpets installed? Yes. So carpet installers for me every carpet installer I’ve ever known has had some sort of substance abuse issue. So I don’t know if people who get get into flooring, get a stub, then get a substance abuse issue because how bad it is on the body. It’s really hard on the body to install floors on the C  body. And I think too big because most installers are paid by area. Yeah. And so the faster you work, the more money you make. So they work K  really dangerous. It’s a really dangerous job. Those should not go quickly. There was one guy I worked with no more glory stories. I know this story and no, just now, C  I wasn’t gonna tell the gory part. Made the people curious. K  Yeah, and they can hear about it on our Patreon if they want to hear it. C  This is not that story. Okay, this is briefly K  is this snare related. C  Well, not really. K  Where’s Oh, bad, we’re keeping things on track, but C  pointed out that we’ve been quite good for several weeks. We have K  been at that point. So like all the snow on our balcony has already melted except for on the very ledge of our balcony. And it’s like the trees are covered. Like you could shake a tree and get snow to fall on you. Yeah, I wouldn’t want to do that. I wouldn’t want to either, but I know people who would, which is odd that I wouldn’t want to either because I could give you like a brain freeze. It could like it could freeze. I’ve never wanted to freeze my face because I’ve always been afraid of losing my nose Nether strange phobia. I have I’m afraid that my nose is just gonna fall off one day C  like Tyco. Bing K  is that what it’s called? C  No, that’s the name of an astronomer who is famous for having a witness K  See, that’s me just be like really? I believe everything Charles says. I don’t have a phobia of my nose falling off. Yes, like waking up without it. Because it’s fallen off. C  One of the first things you told me is that I was not allowed to get your nose K  Yes. I told you like seriously don’t touch my face. What my eyelashes? And don’t get my nose? My three rolls and don’t touch my ears don’t make my ears. Like who’s doing any of these things to my beefs? You’d be surprised how many people want to get your nose. Yeah, you’d be surprised. Like as an adult just living in an adult world, you’d be surprised how many people wanted to get my nose. I don’t know. They’re just doing that other people. Like hit us up on Twitter if you’re an adult. Yeah, people want to get your nose. Because childhood never had that experience I had not. So I’m like, I want C  enormous nose. So like, why wouldn’t you want to get this? What is wrong with me that you don’t want to get this? K  So that was our digression and sort of talking about snow. So to wrap it up, snow is different everywhere. Like California snow is different than Australia. Snow is different than Hokkaido, snow is different than Nagoya snow is snow is different everywhere. I think that’s really cool. Yes, that’s now it’s different all around the world. So if you want to go like on a Snore, snore on a snow tour, I totally support you. And not every plant financially, but emotionally. C  Not every place has snow, but every continent has snow. K  Yes. And if you want to know about whatever we’re talking about on the pitch chunks, I can’t remember the topic because I have to pull it up. But we’ll be talking about something cool falls on Africa. Something Yeah, it’d be interesting, C  so it’d be even cooler than snow. K  Yes, it will be. Thanks for listening. I’ll talk to you next week. Bye. Bye.

K  So lately I’ve been thinking about seasonal surprises in C  Surprise. K  In the U.S. versus Japan because the holidays just passed like a few weeks ago, like one week ago. I don’t know the holiday seasons are different in Japan and the United States. So I’m on vacation from my day job anymore. There you go. That’s a good way to sum up my confusion about the holiday because we’re in three time zones for holidays. Australia, the US and Japan. So for me this year, like major if y’all follow us on Twitter, you know, I love me some raspberries. And this year we had winter berries, which is so exciting, but also horrific because of climate change and all of that. But we had a warm snap this winter. So the entire month of December, we had winter berries, which are bonus berries, and we don’t get them every year. But then it snowed in December and snowing again in January, which is a little bit earlier than when it snows it usually was snow at the end of January, beginning of February. So we had two winter surprises. I was like really jazzed about this year. C  Yeah, we’ve had years where it snows in December and then continuously February, we had one year where it snowed for about 10 minutes. February and that was it. Yeah. So we’ve had different with different winters. This is a particularly snowy one for Nagoya. K  Yeah. And that’s exciting to me. That it’s been a very snowy Christmas life. Like that’s all wonderful winter surprise, and the snow doesn’t last more than a day or two. It’s not like we’re having continuous snow for weeks and weeks and weeks. But if y’all know how much I love snow you listen last week and I was like yeah C  I love it so much. I want it to love me back. K  Yes, I do. This year doesn’t seem like you’ve partaken in any winter surprises or what special winter availability of things? C  I don’t think I have I think I’ve pretty much got my regular things. Yeah, I eat a lot of packaged foods and such because food prep takes a long time. And I get achy when I do it. So K  yeah. And I eat the same thing on repeat. So I’ll go on what we call tears. And I’ll eat like right now I’m on pepperoni tear. Because I have hereditary corporate porphyria. And that really strongly dictates what I eat. I need protein in a certain amount of time, that after a while, if I eat too much protein, it starts to make me sick. So I really have to listen to whatever my food is. My body is craving. And right now it’s craving protein, fat, and salt. And so hello pepperoni. Has all of those things. Okay. pepperoni and cheese toast? What is the best ever? So I’m basically living off pepperoni and cheese, toast and apples. And that’s all I eat. But I eat a lot of it because, you know, I have to stay fluffy. Thank you. I like being fluffy. big and fluffy. It’s a decision. And I love it. I love I have a big round pot belly. And I just love it and you have a pot belly and I just love it. I think pot bellies are so sexy. C  Yeah, we’re watching a show. And you’re like, look at that. It’s not as good as yours, though. K  Yeah, we’re watching forgemasters or something C  forged in fire their sub series like K  fortune, or something or die. C  Yeah. Where they compete with these. K  They’re not paying us for and they’re not sponsoring. So we don’t have to get their name, right. No. But if you want to, like, have a paid spot up in the gig, we’ll say your stuff right and promote you. Well, here’s the 100 bucks. Yes. You got to put it out there. You got to put it about if you’re valuable. And people will not know that you’re available if you don’t put it about. Okay. C  So if you’re listening like if you’re listening, it does. Either one of you. Hit us up. K  Yeah. Anyone? I don’t care what it is. I have like no morals when it comes to advertising. I will say it’s sponsored. I’ll say it’s advertising then you make your best choices for yourself. That’s not on me. C  I’m not endorsing this. I’m just endorsing that check. Right K  holla but if someone wants an endorsement, they have to let us try whatever it is. Yeah. Because we did have like so this is a strange digression, but it was such a strange interaction that I have to talk about it. So this mattress company sent me an article on how sleep affects mental health. And could I? Could I promote their mattresses on my website for adjustment guidance? Right, yeah. And to my clients, and I said, Sure, I’m completely open to putting this as a blog post and promoting it, but you would need to pay me. Right. And they were like, no, but there’s mental health benefits. And that should be enough for you. And I’m like, not really, I can talk about the mental health benefits of sleep without promoting your mattress. Yes. And their article wasn’t 100% Correct. And it wasn’t peer reviewed. And because it was talking about their mattress, and so I thought it would be a great blog post. I’m not gonna put them, like forever on my website. And I don’t do banner ads. So there are people that have paid blog posts on my website. Right. But, you know, it is what it if I’m willing to put an advertisement on anything, C  right, that if you’re going to do all of that, like, you’ve got to trust that the thing is real. Yeah. And also that you’re not going to regret it. Like, you’re not gonna tell, tell a lie. Now. So if you don’t know, you don’t know. Yeah, I saw a lot of problems with conflicts of interest when I was editing full time, where they’d be like, okay, yes, we’ve gotten a million dollars in funding from this pharmaceutical company, but there’s no conflict of interest and reporting how great their results are. K  Yeah, so we don’t have any conflicts of interest. Because we just get on here and ramble and talk about any old thing. Yes, but we will be honest about whatever. So I mean, think about that, but 100 bucks, come on. 100 bucks med roll. Get out of here. That’s C  what the lingo K  so mid role is after the introduction, and at and before the outro. So we have our standard intro. And then we talk. C  Yeah, I’m not sure if we’re doing that anymore. Because our editor, our sound editor, I don’t know if they’re putting the intro on. I think at this point, people are just like, we know what you are. Just good. K  Yeah. So we start with standard intro and outro. I don’t think we’re using anymore, because we’re so awesome that we check these kinds of things. But yeah, because our patrons has helped us get a sound editor and help Tonkin your mic. And so we’re fancy now. Thank you for helping us be fancy. There’s still other things that we need. Like we need the chairs, C  right? We’re still fancy that if I eat after this, it’s a fancy feast K  was brings us back to season stuff. Because Hello. I feel fancy when I eat raspberries. C  You do feel fancy when he raspberries. So it’s really kind of K  twisted and messed up, though. Why I love raspberries. So I kind of have to share that. Okay, yeah, I’m gonna show it and don’t judge me. This is our this is a safe space by C  any of you out there are members of the fake kingdom. K  There might be Fay who follow us. Yeah. And they might be upset by this. And so won’t trigger warning if you’re a Fae. So for me when I was really little, there was a blackberry bush and a raspberry bush and a bunch of kids. And I was the one kid who didn’t mind getting scratched up. But I would eat them all myself, like I want to share. And one of the older kids was really great at telling me stories. I loved it. And so she was like, I’ll tell you a story. And I’ll tell you where raspberries come from. If you bring me some and I said, Okay, what about the blackberries, I want to know blackberries come from Tim. So we have to bring me raspberries and blackberries every day to get more of the story. And basically what the story was, is that raspberries grow out of fairies and their fairy dresses and so they shed them and get a new dress basically like hermit crabs that get different shells. Yeah. And it was very just male, female. There weren’t any witnesses like in the 70s we were not woke. And so girl fairies did raspberries. And boy fairies did blackberries because it was so gendered that the smaller raspberries came from more petite girls and the blackberries came from bigger guys. And so for me, I was thinking I was eating fairy clothes. And we ate so much that when it was done, the owner of the bushes got mad that we ate all the berries. And the girl told me no, no, don’t worry, they’ll they’ll revoke grow clothes are just mad because all the fairies naked. And they’re against nudity because I was raised nudist so that I wouldn’t take it personally get upset and I was like, Okay, you’re having a meltdown because the fairies are neatest. Like how horrible Are you? They want us To eat their clothes, were freeing them. So I was a freedom fighter for fairies. Okay, and they’re really in my mind and my little brain. Yeah. I was like four or five. C  So and where did the grapes fit in? K  I guess six, six. At that point in time we weren’t eating grapes because that was during during the C  Cesar Chavez led Yeah. strikes, boycotts. Yeah. K  So be meat breaks. C  Okay. I knew that. I was just verifying. K  Yeah, that was gonna support the farmworkers and didn’t eat grapes. So for me, food has always been, I’ve always been a difficult picky eater. And my whole life, people have told me really fun stories about food to get me to eat it. And if a food has a great story that’s happy and upbeat, and serves a social justice cause I’m more likely to eat it. Or if it has some fantastical origins, like broccoli being miniature trees that God made just for me. I was like, okay, even though we were atheist that was really meaningful to me. Yeah. That. So I when I was young, I think I was more agnostic and open to there being a god. C  And it’s weird how the narrative has changed because now the narrative would be broccolis are genetic engineered abominations. K  Yeah, they’re GMO, but they were. They were developed just for me, C  right? They were like, we have some cauliflower. We have some brussels sprouts kiss for loves both. What if we put them into one plant? K  Thank you. And that’s exactly how my mother explained it to me. And I was like, That makes so sense. That makes so much sense. Because I love brussel sprouts, because you can put them into things and cook them till they dissolve. Yes. And that to me is so yummy. You have like this. No one can figure out what the flavor is. But they really enjoy it even you even I don’t like brussel sprouts. But when I cook them down, and they disappear, you don’t have to manage them. And like this is just a really great flavor. C  Yeah, my mom was a super picky eater. So if she didn’t like it, she wouldn’t cook it. And nobody else could cook anything in our household. So it was always like until she died. It was always whatever she could. So I had brussel sprouts for the first time when I was like 17. And they’re pretty gross. And then I had them so often that I got used to them. And then you showed me that they could actually taste good. And I was like, huh, I thought they could just only be tolerable. There are other things like okra when I was seven or eight. We lived in Tempe Arizona for a summer and had fresh okra. So I was like, Okay, I know ochre can taste good. K  I love Japan has turned me on to Oak right and mess with okra in the United States. That’s C  why I’m saying it because I knew that you weren’t a fan of okra. K  I don’t like Southern Style oak traditions. But I do enjoy Japanese okra dishes. I love the way that the Japanese handle and blend okra like the Japanese will take okra and sweet potatoes and make like a thin. And it’s interesting because I don’t usually like sort of mucousy textures I think of it. Yeah. And no man you C  describe it that way because you don’t like it. Yeah. And so the thing it’s viscous. K  Yeah. And so for one of the winter vegetables special is okra and sweet potatoes made into this sort of like, almost a paste with okra rings and sweet diced sweet potatoes and, and it is so tasty. It’s so good. It’s fabulous over rice. It’s fabulous. And curry. It’s fabulous. I don’t do it as a side dish. And I don’t do it in pasta, but it is fabulous. On top of me. Like to put it on top of some chicken. It’s so good. Oh my gosh, I’m getting so hungry. So that was like another release. C  Seasonal surprise. K  Yeah, a really wonderful winter surprise is I never know from the curry place what the winter vegetables going to be. Yeah. And I’d love it. I wait all year round for the winter vegetable. And I’m like hoping dice Caboolture dice kokoshnik like finally dice small portions of culture, which I love. But if I get cabbage I eat too much of it. Yeah. Which is y’all know, Japanese pumpkin is so tasty. I find Japanese vegetables are more tasty than tastier and smaller than California vegetables. C  And I think this is like I’ve been thinking about this with all these things coming in unexpectedly. I think that these are excess produce, like if they have a bumper harvest from yeah thing. Don’t make an ice cream flavor. Like there are a lot of years we get like a sweet potato ice cream or like different vegetables, flavored ice creams. And I think in the United States, the same thing happens. It’s just more subtle. They’ll just use like the extra sweet potatoes if that’s the extra crop. They’ll just like extract all the starches and render it into chemicals that they use. Another things without it being the primary flavor. Yeah, here it becomes the primary flavor that like, Okay, we have a lot more of whatever crop than we’re anticipating. So that’s going to be the flavor of ice cream and also the flavor of mochi and also the flavor. Potato chips and also the flavor of drinks and K  yeah, it’s your winter flavor. Yeah. So I I love the the seasonal flavors. Something I’ve noticed in at least in California cuz I kind of pay attention I was I pay more attention to what’s going on in California than any other states. I can’t really speak about other states. But in California, I’m really bummed that like eggnog and peppermint candy canes, not the round peppermint that’s available all year through Brock’s again, not a paid sponsored ad Brock. C  Brock star like memes. Yes. K  And, um, I feel like candy canes been available all year round eggnog being available all the way all year round. And like the orange, the chocolate orange and the chocolate raspberry. C  Yes. You know, those have been non seasonal for a long time because I think they were non seasonal K  before we land. Right. Right. And that was a bummer to me because it felt I don’t know it felt like it was making the holiday more watered down. Yeah, because like pumpkin pie you can get it all year round. And sweet potato pie you can get all like ever there I don’t can’t think of and hit us up on Twitter if I’m completely wrong. And there are still things you can only get during the holidays. I think there are things that people only make which is something different that is something then you can only get C  you know what I wish there would be an extra harvest of that apparently never happens in Japan is new get like how are the new get farms not? Because, you know, I’m a huge fan of like the nougat with the dried fruit in it. Yeah. But apparently nougat farms are not popular here in K  Japan. Because what can you ever had nougat here? C  No, I haven’t. K  I haven’t I don’t think I’ve ever seen negate No, I saw nougat I would get you some say know how much you love nougat. Yeah. There’s tons of dried fruit. Yes, a fight. There’s all of the components except the nugget. Yes. There’s like fruit with dried candy. Right? Like they know how to combine dry candy in Japan know how to know how to do it. But it’s just there’s no nugget. Yeah, and just like, Yes, I think is disgusting. By the way. I don’t get your love of Nigut and I support it. I don’t have to get it to support you because I love you. Thank you. And I’m an awesome, awesome spouse you are today I’m an awesome spouse the other day I was a bad spouse. Like it varies on my mood whether or not I think I’m an awesome spouse in no relation to how you feel about my spouse, Frankie, C  my spouse doesn’t like nougat but lets me eat it 10 out of 10 K  Hashtag relationship goals. Was there anything seasonal that happened that you enjoy? Because I we discovered a bunch of new restaurants. But that was just me going out into the world and not having been out of the house? And 18 months? Yeah, almost two years. I think we’re at 19 months when I went out to December 22 months, 22 months in December. Okay. They’re not going out of the house except for doctors and hospital visits. And the dentist for 22 months. Like all of downtown the downtown area not ecchi my not near Nagoya station, but in Sakai, which is I think of proper downtown. Like industrial to me. C  Yeah. So they’re both Central Business District and Sokka is the retail district. K  Yes. So for me downtown is the retail district. Right? That’s C  industrial, like there is retail stuff there for the people who work in office buildings. K  A lot of hotels too. Right? Right. So there’s just tons of like, all of these great restaurants that are opened up that are like, really cute. And for me, my experience was it was a winter surprise. Yeah. And so these 25 new restaurants are an amazing winter surprise. And now we have like for the next three years restaurants to try. Because if I try a restaurant and like it, I want it that’s the restaurant I want to go to for going to that area. And then I’ll have a mood shift where I’m like I’m sick of this restaurant I want to break up with this restaurant. And there’s another one so there’s like a rotisserie restaurant, camping outdoor restaurant where you can actually go and eat intense which I think is super cute. But I don’t know how the food is but I want the super cute experience the C  food is intense. K  And like the rotisserie plays I’m not a huge chicken or rotisserie chicken fan. Yeah, but you love a good rotisserie chicken. So you think this because when anytime you go to So normally you would have the rotisserie chicken C  and theirs was really good. And it was a meal for two and I was like, well, you split this with me and you’d say, Yes, I’ll split that with you, but I’m gonna be super picky and eat all your white meat so you better eat the other parts. Yeah, like it’s not mine. We’re splitting it now. It’s your it’s it’s your chicken until I take the white meat and then that’s my whitening. K  If you want to eat chicken with me, I only eat chicken breast. Exactly. That’s I could never be on hot ones. Not and I’m not famous. C  See if I went on hot ones. Again, not famous. I do the vegan wings. I’m not vegan, but the vegan wing sound good? K  Yeah, the vegan ones like delicious. The other ones. Like even Gordon Ramsay was like, these wings are crap. C  I’ve never been a fan of wings. K  I’ve never been I’ve never eaten a lean. I don’t like the concept of it. I don’t like the way they look. I don’t like the shape. I don’t know what kind of meat that is. C  Okay, see, I think this is an area where as far as eating wings, I think I’m a technical virgin. Like I’ve tried to eat them, but I just didn’t quite get in there. K  Yeah, and there’s a wing. There’s like a famous super famous swing shop here in Japan. Japan does wings. C  Oh, yeah. I’ve had that. So that’s okay, so then you’ve had chicken wings. That’s called heavy Aki. It’s a particular style of preparing them. But it’s chicken wings, chicken wings. So yes, I’ve had chicken wings, because that was all anybody at the university wanted to eat. Like the after workshops and things. If we had a guest speaker we’d take them out to dinner. I’m kind of collectively paid for them and then everybody else pays for themselves. Yeah. And everybody just always want to go this place that the only two things they serve are chicken wings and beer. Yeah, I’m like, Okay, there’s not a lot for me here but I guess I’ll eat some chicken wings. K  And I think tn on firstly, face again, not sponsored. Yes. I’m Hawking for sponsors. Yes, I’d love for the podcast to break even. I’d love for it to make some money. I’m not shy. I’m not shame closed mouth. Don’t get fed. I’m hungry. C  Okay. You think I need this mic for anything else? I don’t I just have a gamer headset that I use for all my meetings at work. K  Thank you use a mix of chicken wings and drumsticks. Yeah, I’ve seen a couple of drumsticks I’m like, that’s a drumstick. That’s my chicken wing. But whatever. I digress. So seasonal stuff. And Japan beyond clothing. I mean, beyond food. I don’t know why I don’t do clothes. So I do wear clothes when I go out. I don’t do clothes at home. I do jammies, which are kind of clothes like this. And you C  don’t do seasonal clothing. You’re not like ooh, this season’s clothes. I have to get some. K  Yeah, no. And if you follow us on Twitter, you know in December, I was racking everyone over clothes, C  because like 20 years ago, you were doing bags, you’re like, I want to get some of this season’s bags. Not all of them. Just a couple. But you still have those. So, K  yes. And I don’t have a large bag collection. No, you don’t. You’ve got like six. And more than that have about 20 or 30 bags. Okay, that’s my consider large bag collection. No. And I do still carry them. So I find them Fashionable, fashionable, I do have a favorite. But I do carry carry the other bags, and backpacks and such. So the seasonal thing that I didn’t partake of this year in December was the eliminations. And I feel like that’s something that’s still is parallel to the US where everything’s illuminated and lit up. And all of that. C  I find that interesting because most of the illuminations are free but there are like dedicated you have to pay to get in illuminations parks that will be up K  in the Wisteria illuminations is I’ve seen pictures of it I’ve never been. It’s just so looks so stunning to me that it has an overhang of Wisteria and the Wisteria hangs down and it’s all lit up and it just looks absolutely stunning. But I’ve never gone there C  yet, but Ross has gone on a few dates to the various illumination plays. Yes. And so those are paid. And I find it interesting that in the US like you get your Christmas lights for free cuz everybody’s putting them up. And you could go see an IMAX show or like something for this. K  I think we were super spoiled in San Jose because San Jose like Nagoya had the super long park that just ran the length of the downtown area and they would turn it into winter village every year. Yeah, I C  remember going and getting that kind of thing. K  Yeah, that one end was the North Pole was Santa. C  Yeah, which having been to Santa is workshop in North Pole. It was not an accurate recreation. K  Being Santa. Sorry, I had out your Santa C  seat. Now we’re gonna have to scrub this this video and everybody who protect Everybody who ever mentions that I’m sad that you’re on the naughty list K  I do miss the open air free winter parks. Because in Japan, they don’t do any sort of open air Park in Central Park in Sockeye. And it’s very sectional although now a cool winter surprise, I don’t think would have been. I don’t think it’s technically a winter surprise is that now they have it divided by sections. And they have a bus that just drives around in a loop around Central Park. Yeah, in Sockeye and so you can just get off at your number. And just get back on I don’t know how much it cost because I just walked it. Yeah. I didn’t walk the whole thing of C  it might even be free. It might be like the Vegas walkway where? Yeah, I K  don’t know. It was there was several maps they completely did. From the only part that I saw was from like Oasis 21. To the telecaller. Yeah. And I saw like the end of the Telugu towers in the center of what I consider one of the blocks that they use the talebi tower, the TV tower, the Nagoya TV tower to divide it into, yeah, which I thought was really was really interesting. C  A lot of places here, if you rent or buy, then you have to pay a neighborhood fee, which is kind of like a homeowner’s association, except it’s not. Like there aren’t any messed up covenants or anything like that US has. K  Yeah, I think in a couple of weeks, we’ll be doing a whole podcast on moving in Japan. Yeah. So I don’t want to step on that part. Okay. But my C  point is, I think when you rent an office, and a lot of those spaces, that fee is included, and it pays for things like that bus, or in azmol. It paid for the statutes like the and the association Commission’s these services that increase the value to the businesses around them. So I’m saying I think that bus is probably free. If it’s just a circle, the park bus? K  Yeah, you have no interest in the bus. So you have no information. You’ve never seen it. You didn’t look at it. C  Other people are hearing like how good I am at guessing things. K  Yes, hearing him predicting. You are psychic friend. C  I’m not psychic. I’m K  analytical. Okay, yeah, you are analytical from analyzing C  what the position of the stars will affect. So how K  did you feel this winter break? Because you had like three weeks off? Yeah. Were there any winter surprises for you besides the December snow? C  I don’t think so. So I had more time off this year than last year. But I’ve been at my company for three winter breaks now. Yeah. And so it’s not a surprise to have one. And then before that I had taken a year off. And so I’d had like an entire year of have no obligations. I’d still done some editing work on the site and various things. But this year was really busy at work. So I felt like the first week was just recovery, like, okay, drove myself super hard. And then the second week, I did some cinnabar moth stuff. I played, you know, some video games, I did some editing, I did some podcast stuff. And then the third week was just like bonus time, because the company decided to come back a week later than usual. So I guess I felt like some of it was bonus time. K  For me, there were some negative Christmas surprises or winter break surprises. And that was everything crashed for my school’s website. Oh, yeah. Well, I was in the midst of doing my analysis. So my analysis were not done on the school’s platform. But I couldn’t report anything. Right. And that was really frustrating for my chair, my PhD chair. Yeah, you C  have an academic license for SPSS through your university. Yeah. And I think you, you mentioned this, because when I did my masters, because for doing PhD, not masters masters already done. When I did my masters, all the all the staff software was only available by using the university servers I had like login to a virtual desktop. And so if they that crash, I couldn’t work on it at all. Whereas you you worked on your analyses, but you couldn’t upload them to get the feedback from your methodologist K  No, you’re wrong. You don’t know. You’re, you’re like saying a completely wrong thing. Okay. But I’m thank you for sharing your experience. Thank you. Yes. So it’s interesting to me, because you’re sitting right next to me and helping me with all of these things, but it seemed to have no memory of the event. C  And that’s that’s often true and I work like the other day I was editing and you asked me how Was it? I don’t know. It wasn’t that I didn’t have an opinion is that I have no recollection of that. K  Yeah. So when, and we’re going to talk about why you don’t read the cinnabar. Moth books and the tape too. Yeah. So. So here’s the thing with Chad, I really don’t like telling you what we’re going to record in the future, or even the take to because then you’re like, excited and you want to talk about it during the made episode. C  I won’t talk about it now. Please don’t. K  It’s the take till Okay. Help me out here. Yes, I’m the creative person behind this app to think of all of these topics. It’s challenging. C  Okay. It’s hard. You’re the engine? K  I am. I’ll C  stop trying to be the nozzle. K  Now it’s like Satan is my moto. So does that make me Satan? It’s a cake song. Yeah, it is one of your favorite songs. C  Yeah, they have the one lyric that they got totally wrong. But other than K  that, share the lyrics with the folks well they C  have one about internal combustion power and a Satan is your motor. It should be infernal combustion power is just like one consonant different. But it would have been a much more popular song. K  That’s the reason nobody likes it. I think it was a popular thing. It was one of their chart toppers. No, I don’t think it was one of their singles. Right. But in terms of being part of the of that, that album, I don’t remember which album it is, again, cakes not sponsoring us. C  I think that’s motorcade of generosity. But I’m not sure. K  I think so too. And for those that may not know, cake is the name of the band. Yeah. And they’re one of our favorite bands. So it was C  one of the bands that we’re both like, you like cake. Nobody likes cake. Yeah. K  It was before cake was really popular. C  Yeah. Only fashion nugget was out. Yeah, first. K  And so like, I think it was we were ahead of the curve on the second album. Yes. I mean, like, we, you might get all like the entire album. You’re not just listening to this one song over and over again. Yeah, I’m not just listening to the single Yeah, we’re not just listening to the distance over and over again. So yeah, that was that was really fun. So some of the negative so talking about my PhD, the negative surprises my PhD, is they use a system called Blackboard. And that’s the classroom. And anytime I achieve a milestone, or meet a goal or target, I have to upload documentation of that to something called groups. And my chair gets really frustrated, if I email them something that hasn’t already been uploaded to groups, and they send me emails back. Don’t forget to upload this to groups. Even if I include when Blackboard is up and running again, I will upload this to groups, which is a pet peeve of mine. So it idiosyncratic of me that I hate the reminder and idiosyncratic of them that they hate that I didn’t do it. Right, and that they need it done. They need it done. They need it done. And I think because so many people don’t document their process, but I’m on top of my documentation. Yes, you are. And I don’t like being treated like I’m not. And so it’s personally offensive to me when it shouldn’t be this is just the way that they communicate. So I found it really frustrating because they like, Have you contacted tech support this, that and the other and I’m like, tech support on vacation. C  Yes, there is no time for it is like you shouldn’t be doing this right now. We don’t care that it’s broken. K  Right? It’s going to be broken until the breaks over but and C  this is Blackboard tech support. It’s not even your universities because your university pays Blackboard to host these things. K  Yes. And then on top of that, there were two days that both my chair and coach did not have access to their email. Right. And I have, I had a stats question that stopped my research in its tracks on December 24. And I was just so upset as someone who doesn’t celebrate Christmas, right? It pisses me off to no end, that people can’t do things on the 22nd through the fourth, that makes no sense. I get that people need downtime and time off. It just really bothers me that this is the particular time because I never take it off. Yeah, I’m really selfish that way. I’m just being selfish. C  I think that’s kind of like, sad. K  I think everybody deserves a week off at the end of the year. C  I think so too. Or at some point. I think that’s one of the things that was K  I gave everybody as cinnabar moth, two weeks off. So like, I’m not hypocritical because I don’t benefit from this. But it’s ironic that as a boss, I’m doing the thing that irritates everyone else and subjecting our authors to that because authors contacted me and said, Hey, this Saturday the other and unlike the teams on break, you know, like, oh, I wasn’t expecting anything. So after the first anyways, and I’m like, but you were okay. But I’m still doing stuff like I’m still working on. I still did stuff rather, I worked on the taxes and I work bike, and I’m still working on the taxes, like doing all of our interfere accounting, I work the entire time, I took maybe one or two days off my normal. C  Yeah. Like every three months, we’ll take a day off. K  So I wish that the world function in sync with me. C  Yeah, but they were working when you needed them to be working, and otherwise you don’t care? Yeah, I think this is one of the strongest articulate arguments against simulation theory. Like the idea that this is just a simulation is that the world is not convenient to you? And who would program a simulation in which the world was not convenient to you? K  Maybe the programmer, maybe they’re making it convenient to them. But if they’re not in the sun, why would they care? Right, in the simulation? Are the programmers in the simulation? C  No, they’re not. K  Okay, that makes no sense to me, then. C  Yeah, it’s a whole thing. And most of the proponents of it don’t have a point. So like, I know what simulation theory is about, because somebody I work with is very into it. I am not. K  So in talking about your work, I think that how everyone left you alone during the break was a nice window of surprise for you. Yeah, C  I logged into my email, because I needed to get to my other email, and for ease of use. So all of my emails are through Google. Again, not a paid ad, which has drawbacks, but on benefits. So I logged into my Gmail, I was like, here’s your work email. And I only got one email. And it was an automated one from a service. Like literally, nobody emailed me over vacation. And I appreciated that because as i Okay, here, if you want something right away, send me a message on Slack. If I’m around, I’ll get it. I haven’t been on Slack, the entire vacation. And then if you need something, but it’s not urgent, email me, and nobody emailed me. And if you need something super urgently call my phone. Nobody called my phone. So I appreciate that. Because I’ve worked other places where they’re like Scheffer business, nobody’s supposed to be working. And somebody is secretly working and calls me up with an emergency because they broke something like, Yeah, this is why I asked you not to work. K  So how much chat I got was a nice winter surprise for me, because we’re able to go on several dates. Yes. And 20 months of no dates is a lot. Yes. So we did. We did date some, but it wasn’t the same as being able to go out together and enjoy things together and be together. And that was really nice being out in the world with you. C  Yeah. And we’re still very cautious going out even though Japan is right now. Very low. K  Yeah. So we’re so sanitize wear face masks. Yeah. Even though we’re Bakst. C  Yes. It’s not at all things have returned to normal. Like, okay, but we’re both, you know, disabled chronically ill. So normal is staying in for long periods of time. But, yeah, yeah, it was very nice to go out. K  So for me being able to go out was a really awesome winter surprise for me, because I didn’t think that we would be able to go out this December. And I didn’t feel safe enough to go to a hotel like we normally do in December. C  We normally plan that back, like in September. So yeah. And then that was when there was the post election post Olympics bump. So when we looked at planning that things were looking bad. K  Yeah. And scary. Yeah. And so, like, I feel really comfortable and confident going out in safe ways. And for me, that’s wearing a mask sanitizing my hand. I don’t just wash my hands, I sanitize and wash. And it felt really good to see everybody else masked up. Yeah, so in Japan, there’s not closely in Japan we wear masks anyways. C  Yeah, it’s common to wear master in the winter. And it’s considered impolite to not to not wear a mask if you are sick. K  Yes. So there’s a culture of mask wearing already here in Japan. So I think telling people to wear a mask. It’s not a big deal. And I was surprised because, okay, in the summer getting people to wear masks is hard because it’s so hot. So in August, people weren’t doing as well, so unsure how it was going to be in December. And I was really pleasantly surprised. Because I was out a lot in December for me and out to random places and everybody was masked up, I didn’t see anybody without a mask. And that was quite reassuring. I did see people in places of business, like take their masks off. And of course, at restaurants, you would take the mask off. But people weren’t sitting close together, there was like, distancing, all the tables were set distance and stuff. So it was nice to me that we could go out and be safe and not be crowded or worried. C  Now, I remember in the early 80s 1980s, for those of you weren’t alive in the 80s, that backlash against seatbelt laws. Yeah, I remember it too. And it feels very much like that people were like, the seatbelt is crashing my organs. Did you know that seatbelts are associated with greater rates of organ failure and infertility? And like, just all of these things, and now it’s Did you know that masks are associated with hypoxia? And like, no, they’re not surgeons wear them all the time? K  Yeah. And I feel that’s what’s going on in the US. And I, I was really surprised that in the US, everything was 100%. Even with everything that’s going on in the US. The negative Lennar surprise for me was how everyone carried on as if the pandemic was over. And in December, the US had the highest infection rate of any country in the world. Yeah, the world like the US is doing horrible. C  It was so high that on Christmas on the 24th, there were like 200, flights canceled because the airlines were like, it’s not safe enough to fly. K  Yeah. So that was a trip to me watching like the chaos in the US, and then talking to people in the US that it didn’t feel chaotic. It felt like the normal holiday, crunch, and strangeness and oddities. And for me, again, being on the outside looking in, it felt very hectic and chaotic. And I think that’s a winter surprised I really like about Japan is that everything slows way down. And I feel like in the US, everything speeds up and goes really fast. And I’ve never enjoyed that about December. That mix of we can’t do anything except revel. Right? We will revel in the holiday season and it just felt so high pressure to be a reveler and to be in contact with family. And like there’s just felt like there was a lot of expectations. Whereas in Japan, because I’m counterculture, I don’t have there’s no expectations of me. And I don’t have any family except for you in Moscow. So there’s no familial pressure. C  You know, in the US when I had a blue collar job, I didn’t feel like there was any extra pressure around the holiday to do extra. K  I felt like there was. C  But then when I got a white collar job, I felt like, Okay, this Christmas, break this, and then they’d be like, it’s a holiday break. We’re not saying Christmas, because we don’t want to get sued. And like, nobody is suing you for saying that. Stop it. Yeah. But it felt like they’d say, Okay, we’re going to have a one week break. So you should do an extra week of work before and an extra week of work after that. Just pack it into a regular week. Yes. And something that’s been nice to me is that I haven’t felt that pressure in either Japanese companies or the Australian company I’m working for now. K  I think it’s different when you own your own company. C  That’s I’m saying I think it depends on industry and situation and all of that. I don’t think it’s a universal even by country. K  I agree. So if you had to highlight your biggest winter surprise, what would it be? C  How relaxing my vacation was? I feel like last year and the year before even I had a vacation. It was not as relaxing. K  Mine is so it feels so trivial now. Okay. Just like his berries, winter berries. That’s a big thing. Yeah, raspberries in December. And they’re grown in Nagaya. So they’re locally sourced locally grown from the farmers here the strawberries and raspberries that I eat and say and they say it on the package. Make sure to get the my boys strawberries and they’re so yummy. They’re just so good. And I love them. I just love them. And so it’s the highlight. And then of course, seeing you relax was really beautiful too. C  Thanks for throwing that in. K  Berries and then seen my beautiful husband relaxed because I had my priorities together. I was very relaxed Now we’re very relaxed. On that note, if you want to keep chillin with us, you can follow us on over to the take t. And we want to thank everyone who Mike is keeping us in the top 10 on player FM, we’re just solidly every week in the top 10. And I’m so excited. Because every now and then we bump up to the top five, and I’m really striving I’m hoping and play 22 commands to be top five of our podcasts about Japan. That would be super exciting. That would be that’d be super, super exciting, super, super thrilling. And I’m like, yeah, yes, but we can only do that with your help. And we’re only maintaining what we have now and climbing the charts and everything because of all of our beautiful music notes. Thank you so much for listening every week. And if you’re part of the Patreon, you can follow us on over to Patreon and which we’re talking about. I don’t even think we’re talking about why Chad doesn’t read the books are talking now. We’re talking about frustration with authors not promoting their books. Okay, yeah. Under my No, that’s not it either. Okay. Oh, no, that that is it. Oh, my gosh, follow us on over to the take to to find out. We’ll sort C  it out before we start there. K  Have a good week. Thank you. Talk to you next week. Bye bye.

K  So lately I’ve been thinking about goal setting in Japan versus goal setting in the United States, because we’re – it’s almost New Year’s Eve. C  I was wondering, I was like you’ve been talking about goal setting a lot. Why is she so obsessed with setting goals right now? K  I wasn’t the last episode, I wasn’t talking about goal setting. Last episode I was talking about C  You and I talk beyond the podcast. I know that will surprise some of our listeners. K  Yeah. So I don’t do goal setting at – I’ve talked about before, I don’t do goal setting at New Years. But I want to talk about Japanese goal setting. And so I feel like Japanese goal setting is more – is simultaneously more aggressive and more accepting with less pressure. C  Right. K  And that seems like it’s a weird combination. How would you describe it? C  I would describe it in terms of referencing Japanese language. Like in English, we say thank you for like your work. K  Yeah. C  If somebody leaves for the day. In Japanese, it’s called Scott. It’s Ahmed esta, which is thank you for your effort. K  Yeah. C  And I feel like in Japan, it is the effort that is valued. More so than the outcome. And that’s good and bad. There are negatives to that, too. It’s just different. K  So in Japan, I like it, because I can tell my Japanese friends, what my plans are. And as long as I’m working a plan, I’m seen as successful. Whereas my American friends, I can’t tell them my plans. Because if I don’t succeed, or make it come out exactly as they think it should. I’m a failure. C  Right? So again, I’m thinking in terms of language like English, it’s like, good luck, or like, bomb songs in French or feud look in German. And then Japanese. It’s ganbatte ne, which is, try hard, right? K  Yeah. Work hard. C  Yeah. So it’s not saying as a matter of having good fortune, it’s a matter of work hard. So I feel like the outcome is a lot less valued in Japan. K  I feel like there’s Japanese support is very aggressive. And you’re being aggressively supported. And I’ve talked on the podcast before where I don’t like the combat the mindset, but it is actually, like, I’ve done a one ad in the past two years. And I think losing my practice, and starting over again, right, and seeing the way that my Japanese friends react to it, versus the way that my American friends react to it. My Japanese friends react to it like every new beginning as some other beginnings end to, quote, the famous song. And the Americans act like it’s a huge tragic tragedy, and they will not hear that COVID didn’t destroy my business, right? They want it to be the same situation that they’re going to they’re looking for similarities, where to connect, whereas my Japanese friends are like, this is your path, not mine. And I think it’s, and I had one Japanese friend, say, Thank you for not telling me when it was tragic. Thank you for telling me once you had succeeded, C  once you’re ready to pick yourself back up, I think is more like the attitude is that that’s the success. K  Yes, that doesn’t translate what’s said in Japanese, there’s no translation for it in English. So I just did like a rough translation of thank you for not, it’s because the translations will thank you for not burdening me, but it doesn’t have the same connotations. It’s like, Thank you for telling me when it’s the time for celebration, rather than when it’s the time for mourning. Yeah. And for me, I just really enjoy that mindset. And I really enjoy. For one I like not reveling in anything that’s perceived as my downfall. Yes. And I like the celebration of a new plan. And that makes me feel so happy. And like I told everybody when I started the press, and they’re like, everything you’ve accomplished is so amazing. Whereas the Americans are like, when do you think you have your first bestseller? And I’m like, yo, we’ve been open for like a little over a year and they’re like, so is a goal for 2022 to get a best seller. The goal for every book we publish is to get a best seller. C  But that First book we published was the best seller we’d already we’d ever had. And we’ve had better sellers since then for us, K  right. And every week I obsessively chart the first week of sales and every book is doing better. I don’t want this to dominate the podcast, I want to talk about the Japanese mindset. And my experience of it in Nagoya, I don’t know what it’s like in other cities. I don’t know what it’s like, to Aichi prefecture, really. And I love that Japanese nationals are like, That’s so awesome that you’re reaching the goals that you’re setting for the business and your goal sounds so realistic, and they’re really interested in hearing the goals and hearing my plan, and I’m really interested in hearing their goals and hearing their plan. But there’s never that gotcha. I knew you wouldn’t succeed. Because I open my practice. The first thing Americans say to me is, you know, you’re not the only therapist in Japan. Well, no shit, right? Like, that would be really strange. And there would be no market and it would be uphill both ways in the snow with no shoes. Okay, C  you didn’t arrive with Admiral Perry in 1868, reopening Japan to the world, K  right? So for me, it’s I love I love the aggressive. What are you going to do next? I love that drive. Like, what’s your plan? What are you doing? What are you thinking about? And that’s, I like the Drama Dolls, but I’ve never purchased one. And it’s a doll that’s based on a Buddhist monk called Bodhi Dharma, which is my favorite Buddhist monk, because he’s violent. And just out there, like the, I think I might have shared on a podcast before but the tale of Bodhidharma has he walked from India to to China, and he lost one of his shoes. So he kept his other shoe on a stick and walked barefoot the rest of the way. And when he got to the Great Wall of China, he sat there. And he wanted to stare and sit in open eyed meditation. But his eyes kept closing. So he tore off his eyelids. And when his eyelids hit the ground, that’s where green tea comes from. As I say, Okay, I know this is a legend. But are you sure though, right, that’s a legend like so. For me when I was doing like my whole, like, investigating Buddhism, and like, Bodhi Dharma is my Buddha, my Buddha, yo, like, because all the other Buddha’s are hardcore, but they pretend like they’re not hardcore. And to be an accolade of his, his first accolade, had to cut off his arm to show his dedication. I think that’s also a myth. Well, C  and in the myth, he decided on his own, how he would show his dedication. And his first thought was, I know, I’ll chop off my arm. K  Right? But then you’re sitting across from a live this deed? C  Yeah, I feel like the lidless. I was Bodhidharma. Really Sauron. K  Right? Because, you know, so for me, I love the doll. And I love the now everyone buys them with one painted i because they’re sold with one painted eye. But the original tradition was that you paint one eye when you make a wish. And then you paint the second eye when the wish comes true. But they’re also used for as a tool to teach children how to goal set, and how to goal set with what are you going to accomplish in the next year? What are your aims in the next year? And then when you achieve them, we celebrate, but the cycle starts over again. What are your aims? Like, every year, you need to have goals and aims, and I really enjoy that. I know, it’s not everyone’s temperament. If we did that last year, he would be devastated. C  But a lot of the goal setting literature now, because I read a lot of stuff for my corporate job is smart goals, you know, the specific, measurable, achievable, realistic, and time bound. And I feel like the the year provides that nice time bonus time boundedness. K  So something I find interesting about you is if we set a goal for a year from now, you here three months from now, what’s up with that? Cuz that’s specific to chat goal setting. C  Yeah, I feel like setting a goal for a year is you’re giving yourself cushion. And so how much cushion Am I actually give myself? Well, if I’ve got quadruple the time I actually need that seems like a comfortable margin. So I should try and get it done in three months, because then my time can slip a few times. K  But then you immediately move on to the next goal. And I find it well C  what else am I gonna do just like sit around for nine months and revel in how fast I was at that goal. That just makes me a crappy goal setter because my goal was too small. K  And so when I apply this logic to my Stop, you call it moving the goalpost and setting unrealistic, unrealistic expectations of myself and perfectionism. Because I feel like you toxic perfectionism. I C  feel like you rarely acknowledged that you met that goal. You don’t have your line of Daruma dolls all set up with both their eyes filled in, because you set goals, because you’re like, No, that’s for wishes. And to me, I feel like goals and wishes are the same thing to you. That goals and wishes are pretty much the same thing to you. K  I don’t believe in wishes, what would what’s a wish? Like a marine Your Heart Makes? Yeah, like what is that? I’m just gonna sit down and passively wait for the universe to give me something. That’s not my life. Oh, C  so you haven’t discovered the secret? No, I have not. You’re not manifesting it. K  I can’t manifest anything. Rahsaan hand life just keeps working out for him and everything. He manifest, he thinks about it. And it just appears. And we’re actually having to change that because I make all of those things happen. And it’s quite a culture shock for him coming in at 27. I’m like, Okay, this is dangerous. Now we’re entering into like a really dangerous territory where rasa says I want something, and my knee jerk is to get it, right. And that’s not healthy for me. And it’s not healthy for him. But it is really painful as a parent to allow your child to fail when you can prevent it. And so, roster doesn’t set goals. He just casually tells me things he wants. My room casually mentioned, I don’t really like my apartment anymore. Now we’re apartment hunting roster never, ever said, I want a new apartment roster never ever said I want to move. And so I don’t think that roster knows how to set goals. And so we’re kind of that’s what we’re kind of focused on for roster for the next year is teaching them how to set goals and how to achieve those goals. I was like, but I didn’t really want anything. And then we dig down deeper. It’s like you do want stuff. But I’m so proactive and getting everything he wants that he just off the cuff mentioned something in a casual conversation. And then I go into mommy overdrive and make it happen. C  Yeah, I feel like in my day job, I do a lot of goal setting for myself, for other people, accommodating other people’s goal setting. And my aim is always to make, like the tiniest adjustment possible. Yeah, as early as I know, they want things so that it can look like I’m not really doing much. But I feel like if you’re steering a boat, and you’re off by one degree, you’re gonna end up in a different country. K  Yeah. Like, C  you don’t want to sail all the way and then sail up the coast 400 miles, because you didn’t want to bother to adjust when you’re headed over the ocean where it looked like smooth sailing. K  Yeah. And so for me, like we’re talking about American and Japanese goal setting. But I think there’s also room to talk about when you create your own country and your own island. And I feel like I created the aisle of mom. And in the aisle of mom, the culture is Rasta things of thought. And if that thought brings him pleasure and a desire, then I make a way to fulfill that. And so even down to like wanting to date, like, I will do, I don’t do it anymore. Because now roster works tender. But I’ve talked about before how I would do a tender takeover, and just take his tender and swipe and super like and all of that stuff. And now he knows how to do. And so for me, it’s always been really reinforcing. Like he says he wants something, and then I make it happen. And then he sees how I make it happen. And then he does that. But a byproduct of that is not knowing how to how to set goals, not knowing how to do goal setting. I feel like part C  of what you have a mastery of too is getting what you want out of various systems. You can look at a system and say, Okay, this is what I want. Here’s how I get it. Yeah. And so drawing the line between the goal and the outcome, like the the plan to make the goal happen. And in the US, it’s very much don’t bother me with the plan. Just tell me when you’ve succeeded. Yeah. And in Japan, it’s very much what’s the plan and not so much examination of whether it has any chance of success? Just How hard are you going to work? Yeah. And so I feel like most people who are successful have a mix of these things. So these are kind of broad generalizations. cuz I feel like the Japanese people I know who are highly successful, do look at their goals and make sure that they’re going to be successful. Yeah, but they have a reasonable chance. But what’s valued culturally, on average is the effort. Yes. And then the US has a lot of lip service given to valuing the effort. But if you, like, look at who’s celebrated in the US, it’s the person who strove and then succeeded. Yes, they’re like this person practice for 12 hours a day, you know, football in their backyard against killer robots. And they’re not. And they succeeded, and they don’t look at all the other people, like, died to the killer robots practice football. K  And so for me, I feel like I’m suited to both countries, right? Because I’m really good about being secretive about what my goals and aims are. And then just showing up as a success. And so when I introduced any business, I introduce it after it’s already succeeded in my mind by what success would be, that doesn’t mean that there’s not room to grow and do more things. And I also do it with personality changes. And I don’t really say what, what is the thing I’m working on to anyone? I do say to you, because I tell you everything about me. And I just, I want that to change because I want the I want to embrace the culture of it’s not embarrassing to be a striver. C  Yeah. And I feel like there’s not really a word for tryhard in Japanese. Yeah. Like there’s, you know, people who grind oil, which is like kissing ass or sucking up. But in contrast, in the American venture capital culture, there are stealth mode startups. Yes. Where you don’t know who’s funding them. And I read listings to like, get a sense of what market rates are for various business reasons. Yeah, very, very muckety muck up stuff. But there are are places saying like, we’re hiring for a stealth mode startup that’s got a billion dollars in funding, like, How Is This Anything stealthy? You’re advertising to the 20 million people who read this list? Yeah, they are hiring 500 people. There’s nothing stealth about this. You don’t want to say who’s funding it yet? Yeah. Like, is it funded by the US Department of Defense? Is it funded by Amazon? Like, there’s various funders, and I’m like, we’re leaving stealth mode. Right? Okay. So you’re just rebranding yourself. But it’s very much that we’re a big successful company, we want to start another company, but we don’t want to be taxed if it fails. K  Right. Like, we don’t want that failure on our name, right. For me, the, I still struggle to call struggle, culturally with being a public figure. In the United States, I wasn’t a public figure. And in Japan, I’m very much a public figure. I’m very well known in a lot of communities, both Japanese and American, and very well respected. And the things that made me a public figure are so strange to me, like I’ve testified in court in the United States, that didn’t make me a public figure. It’s one of the things that made me a public figure here. And I worked with the children Guidance Center. I worked with top protective services in the United States that made me a public figure here, having a website makes me a public figure. And there are people that just watch my website and watch my Facebook to see what I’m going to do. And I think that I didn’t have Facebook was a thing. When we left the United States, and I didn’t have one. I didn’t have y’all night just barely got one. Like, I don’t know, I think maybe eight years ago, six years ago, and it was immediately successful. And I was like, how is my Facebook successful? Because I have 1000s and 1000s of followers on Facebook. And in Japan. Nobody cares about my social media presence. No, no, like so you know, a bunch of people. What, how did you get this? Why did you do it? What’s the point? Yeah. And so the music’s in Japan at the beginning, when we went on Instagram, I had a bunch of Instagram goals. And I’ve since decided I don’t want to have any Instagram goals when it comes to the music’s in Japan. And that’s because I’m not dedicated to working the system to achieve the goals and nobody sees like it. It’s basically the music’s in Japan. It’s not updated regularly we do updated, updated regularly. I log on to answer and every now and then, because I do have people that I talk with and people that I’m actually friends with that I know in real life, but nobody in Japan sees that as a failure as the pivot is not viewed as a failure. And Americans I gave up on he gave up. And in Japan if you changed your mind, right, that wasn’t working for you. And maybe there’s a discussion of why that wasn’t working for you. But there’s not the you’re a quitter. There’s not the your loser connotation to change your mind or doing a pivot. C  Yeah, in Japan, it’s like, are you? Are you in motion? Yes. Yes. Then you are a success. Yes. All right. But I’m drowning here. But the tide will go out. K  Yeah, like, right, the tide? Yeah. C  And there’s, you know, along the same lines, oh, there’s the culture of the nail that gets sticks up, that sticks up gets hammered down. K  Which is like, I wish you had never learned that same almost every time we talk about Japanese culture, use that saying, because C  I find it so like, it’s not true. And that’s why I find it so strange. They keep saying that, because you buy K  into I don’t always call you out on it. But you mentioned it when you don’t think it’s true. And you mentioned it when you do think it’s true. Like what’s up with you in that phrase was going down? C  It feels like a threat. It feels like stay in line, or you’ll get hammered down. And I feel like the way that it gets applied is so much when people question the methods that are being used. Like, if you say, Okay, we have this common goal, like we as a team have this common goal, and you say, is this the right way to go? It’s like, why are you commenting? Why are you question the way we’re going? We’re going to work really hard. Yeah. And we see a lot of Japanese companies work really hard to know a fact. And others do really well. Yeah. And I feel like in the US, it’s it’s, you’re seen as being contrary, rather than being different. If your question the plan. And sometimes people are like, not, we’re already decided, and sometimes people say, Yeah, okay, your idea is better. But there’s rarely criticism for the mere fact of having a different opinion. Yeah, there’s sometimes criticism for the fact of hanging on a specific opinion, yeah, about how to achieve the goal. But it’s not criticism of the fact that your opinion is merely different. I think that goes back to the being successful versus being seemed to work. Like in Japan, there is consensus building for decisions, but that’s supposed to be happening while you are like moving. Yes. And in the US, it’s not so much consensus building as who has the best idea to make sure that we have the smallest chance of failure so that we’re not embarrassed by not meeting our goal. K  And what I find interesting about Japan, and going back to the drama doll, is that you can paint in the other eye as a show of gratitude for the progress towards the goal that you made. As I said, it’s a one year goal setting thing. But that’s really, I think more for children than adults think some adults use it that way too. But I like the attitude that I’m giving thanks for what all I’ve achieved this year, towards this goal. Whereas in the United States, there are people that I know that in December there, they strive really hard to reach whatever last year’s goal was that they can deem themselves a success at doing their New Year’s resolution, and giving themselves permission to set any resolution. Like if I felt at last year’s resolution, I either have to make it this year’s resolution again. Or I don’t get to set a resolution at all because I’m bad at setting goals for myself. And I think that it’s an all or nothing mindset that I think the Japanese don’t really have an all or nothing mindset about a lot of things and goal setting is one of them. I do C  think all saying because I the conversations I’ve had with my Japanese friends was like, Well, yeah, I’m all or nothing on these 20 things. Yeah, because the nothing isn’t a negative. It’s just like, Okay, it’s not happening. Yeah. But if you give up on goal setting, then what will you do for your life? K  Yes. And that’s the pressure point. And I think it’s really hard for people who come over here and have the mix of when I would see people straddling the the two cultures and being an English teacher, and in Japan either Teaching is not viewed as a career is viewed as a job. And in Japan, I feel like it’s okay to work a job as long as you know that you’re working a job, not a career. And it’s okay to not have a side hustle. And it’s okay to say, this is the job I’m going to do for the rest of my life. And some parents are quoted, some parents aren’t just like in the United States. But if you’re not viewed as a failure, you can be viewed as not living up to your potential. But that in Japan, from my experience, at least in my friend circle, and the people I’ve worked with in therapy, is okay, you’ve decided not to meet my expectations of you. You’ve decided to not fulfill my dreams and goals for you. And that hurts me and disappoints me, but you’re still valid in your own writing. Do you feel that way? Or do you feel like it’s more subtle? C  I feel like it’s sometimes even more explicit. I feel like in friendships, it can be more subtle, because Japanese people aren’t as sensitive to other people’s feelings as anybody else is. Yeah. And so despite the know that cold, uncaring robot machines, that propaganda that I grew up with, it’s not true K  at all, at all, the Japanese, all my Japanese friends are so loving, so affection. And I’ve met cold Japanese people that I’ve met the same in the United States, right? In terms of coldness. And I think for American culture. Japan is not a huggy culture. And I don’t like hugs, y’all know that. But what I love is, I love the patting my back without touching me. Y’all know, I love that. But I also love when my girlfriend’s squeeze my arm. Yeah, I love that so much, because that’s a bear hug. And it’s tolerable to me. Like to just hype me out of nowhere is a shock. But they’ll grab me and squeeze my arm. And or grab my hand when we’re laughing. Yeah. And I enjoy that so much. And I think that’s where the coldness comes from, is the lack of physical contact, and needing to speak Japanese. And then yeah, that Japanese has such a rigid structure to it. I think they don’t know how to speak friendly. And I think once from my experience once people know how to speak friendly and Japanese, yeah, because French Japanese is different. It’s weird. I can’t explain that talk first. Yeah, no, it’s not. C  But I look at the difference between and these are Japanese words between an auto buy toe and a pop. Yeah. So auto buy toe is from the German Arbeit work. And it’s a part time job. Yeah. And Pato is from the American part time job. And it’s a part time job. Yeah. But the difference is that with a Pato you’re just kind of dabbling. Yeah. And it’s not going anywhere serious. Yeah. Whereas other vital is a serious job but it doesn’t take up all of your time. Like you want to have a career but only 20 hours a week. Yeah. Or the opposite. I always forget which is which K  is Patil I remember it because I had a girlfriend telling me that they were doing their Patil. But it was volunteer Patil. Oh, yeah, volunteer, part time gig is. And they work at a soup kitchen and two days a week. And that’s their part time gig. And so volunteering falls under that. I like that. Another thing I like about Japanese goal setting and about Japanese self improvement, is that I’m not expected to rise to the point of where I’m improving myself in a way that is socially acceptable to you. And away or to someone else. Not, not your beautiful music notes. You’d never you’d never do that. Never. And we’d love you. And we love putting I didn’t mention putting the last couple of episodes just want to give a shout out and say we love putting Okay, yes. And it was time for putting warm putting love warm person. Any Hill. Back to what I was saying. When my friend revealed that they worked at a soup kitchen, there wasn’t the immediate, what do you do to improve the social status, the social the social status quo. And I I’d like that there’s no ownership of my goal setting and no ownership of myself improvement. And I feel like in the US there was C  Yeah, I feel like that’s true. And I feel like these things are all on average, but I haven’t had Japanese people be like, What are you doing to apologize for the fact that you are at least moderately successful? Yes. That in the US is expected like, oh, you’re a middle class and you’re not at risk of falling into poverty and unless, like you have several catastrophes, well, how much charity are you giving? Yeah, I think Here in Japan, it’s like, if the conversation comes up at all, well, you pay your taxes, right? K  Yeah. The big thing is do you pay your pension? Yeah. So it’s like Social Security, C  there was this. There was a scandal, because a lot of the people in parliament were found to have not paid their pension because the the retirement pension part of it is paid separately from the health insurance and social welfare part of it. Yeah. For certain types of jobs and government jobs are one of those types. K  So I think I want to talk about some positive things about the US because I don’t hate the United States. And I think some people think that I do, I don’t, I’m hurt by the United States. So think of it as like a friend that’s really hurt you, but you still love them, but you can’t be around them. Yeah. And that’s how I feel about living in the United States. But I don’t think all US culture is bad culture. And I’m American, through and through. And my goal setting and my moving of the goalposts makes me highly effective and highly successful. And that’s an American type of drive that I have, right. And I feel like my entrepreneurship comes from American goal setting. And I find that my ability to just come on the scene successful. A lot of people admire that. And that comes from being American, not comes from going through people being disappointed with me for not reaching a goal. People call me a failure for not reaching a goal and all of those kinds of things. And I think it was wrong of them to do that. I think it’s broader than that in any culture. But for me, I find that I really enjoy that. And on the flip side, with Japanese, I have friends who haven’t seen me in years, I guess that will make them more acquaintance or Japanese people I know. They haven’t seen me for years. That will dogged me out. Because my Japanese hasn’t improved. Right? So there is C  that you haven’t been working on your Japanese K  with huge disappointment. And, oh, you’re still working the same job? Like sameness, I find I get a little bit scorn for sameness in Japan for not evolving in Japan. C  Yeah. And I feel like that the thing you say is American, I do think it’s American. But I think it’s also California. And I’m sure there are other places with a matching one. But having grown up in Alaska, a lot of people have the I’m surviving until I until I get lucky until I like K  strangled. But in Alaska, that’s the vibe. C  That’s I’m saying I gets a different vibe is different from either California or Japan. Yeah. And so I think there are all these subcultures like in the academic subculture. Everybody’s just like, I’m trying to go on tenure track. And the ones that are on tenure track, I’m trying to get tenure. And then once they get tenure is I’m trying to get this prestigious grant. Yeah. But it’s very much seen as the week will fall. K  Yeah, I find that the week will fall is a mindset that both Japan and the United States share. And I for one, find that I’m becoming more and more blended over the years, and I’m enjoying the blend. And I find that transitioning out of transitioning out of motherhood into personhood is such a beautiful journey for me, I’m really enjoying it. Because in the United States, I learned that if my child was unhappy, that I’m a bad mother, my child’s overweight, I’m a bad mother, if my child like the long list of if my child is not pristine, that I’m a failure as a human being and my purpose for being on this earth. And I think the same can be said for Japan. But what makes us successful child in Japan is different than what makes a successful child in the United States. And I ironically, I prefer the US on this rather than Japan. C  I feel like both countries have a very heavy expectation on the mother. Yeah. Like everybody looks at me, and they’re like, Did you teach them how to ride a bike? Might? Yes. Did you teach them how to throw a baseball? I’m like, Yes, I’m there. Then your job is done, sir. Like what? No. K  Yeah, well, people in Japan roster playing Go. got you out of the disappointment of you not having him do martial arts. Right? Because that was like, What are you doing to help him? You know, really be the best version of himself. There has to be some sort of mental discipline activity that they’re doing. C  Come on. As a sumo. You know the sumo I’m just fat No, I went out to a restaurant with a Japanese friend. And the people around two stories, my Japanese friend, is he a sumo? K  And I can give you an idea of Chad’s shape. And I look like a female Sumo. So I always joke that would look like salt and pepper shakers. Because I feel like my body is a shape of what your assigned female at birth body would have looked like. I think he would have been shorter. C  I think so that body is like there’s a picture of it hanging in the attic somewhere. K  So we have like a really good understanding of American goal setting. And I want to say that the thing that I prefer about American success when it comes to parenting, is that we’ve built several companies and Nasus work roster has worked for each company, and having a company that roster can take over as viewed as successful. In the United States. In Japan, it is not C  Yeah, he’s worked for each one. Once he became a working age, we didn’t do the child labor thing. K  No, we didn’t. And that was frowned upon in Japan, like we should have done. Right, right. C  storefront with like the eight year old bread man in the till, yes, like with the parents sitting nearby. But when we go to small towns, it’s not unusual to see kids on weekends. And after school and after school, like working at the family store, K  that those families are viewed as not being successful. Yeah. And I’ve worked with Japanese nationals who are overcoming the trauma of their family having a small business. And small businesses just aren’t treated with a lot of respect in Japan in terms of legacy. So for me, I get all of the respect accolades and, and all of that. But Rasta gets disdain for working for any, any endeavor that his parents do. C  Well, I’m for not being in a tier one company, too, I think. I think there’s a very strong distinction. And K  even if there was a tier one, because for the Toyota versus Toyota, right family that that schism that split, there is like the sort of if you don’t branch out and do something different, because Toyota is the original company, and they made machine parts and machines. And then Toyota is the car company when they switch gears. That innovation gained the Toyota family. That brand of the Toyota family. Yeah, respect and success. C  And those who don’t know the story that toyo.is usually spelled with a D before the final A, that’s, that’s the family name. And when they decided they were going to go international, they said, okay, that company name, we’re going to use a T, which has an alternative pronunciation of that final character. K  Yeah. So I feel like the the lengths that this legacy family had to go through to be respected in Japan, right. And seen as something viable. And I, I had another client, who came from a very successful family and had taken over the family business, and was really struck, struggling to forge their own identity, because the only thing that anyone cared about for them was the fact that they were bilingual, and didn’t care about all of the training that they had done. And I was like, this is Japan. C  Yeah, this is Japan, where when you start a new job at a big company, they don’t care what your degree is in. Yeah, these are the tier one companies what’s called the K dot K  read. And what’s the tier one company? C  It’s a member of the K Don Ren, the Japanese business? sociation. Yeah, it’d be like being a fortune 500 company. K  Yeah. So I find it interesting that there’s no way to succeed except for striking out on your own or going with something really well known and big and moving your way up there to be a success. Right. But to be successful. In Japan, you just need to be working towards a goal and I find that nuance to be interesting. C  Yeah. Like the difference between, like a respectable person, and a rich person. Oh, kinda emoji. Yeah. He just means has money. Yes. Like so. Just having money makes you rich in Japan. K  Yes. I don’t think that Japan is like this golden place where everything is perfect. I did feel a lot. I do feel a lot of pressure but about some of the things I’m not doing. And one of the things I feel a lot of pressure about is whether or not to become a Japanese citizen and what I think is so strange When I have this pressure, I have this pressure because I’m married to an American. Yeah, we’re as it’s okay for in Japanese docile, nasil eyes, it’s okay for a man married to a Japanese woman to have that be the goal. And they just hope they stick around until the child graduates. And I find that that’s all. From my perspective, that’s like a really low bar for success. Right? I stayed in Japan until my child was an adult. Okay. You know, that’s C  people we’ve known that have failed to meet K  that. Right? Because C  deported or Yeah, has it been deported. K  But as an American woman living in Japan with an American husband, the pressure on me with to learn Japanese, which is why I’m so defensive about it on the podcast, sometimes the pressure from expats and I know I talked about the expat my competition thing with Thomas Japanese as I speak. And that’s the one area where I feel like in Japan, that’s very much like the United States is like, if you’re not trying to do the top level of the most famous Japanese language tasks, which is the JLPT. One, if that’s not what I’m working on with my Japanese, what am I even doing here? Yeah. And the scorn that comes with that from both sides, from expats and from Japanese nationals. C  And culturally, there’s not much wiggle room for reasons that you aren’t trying the hardest possible. K  Yeah, there are. That’s another thing. C  I’ve shown up at job interviews, and they’re like, you have a cane? We’re sorry, we’re not going to interview you today, which is legal in Japan. Yeah. And it’s like, why, like, well, you’re not trying hard enough to walk. K  Yeah, like you should have came without, without the C  right, you knew that we were going to see you. So you should have pretended. And that happens in the US too. But yeah, in Japan, it’s very much seen as like a K  so opening law. Yeah. So opening then in Japan. And for me, like my experience was I was in the hospital, and I like, oh, great, you’ll have time to study, right? I’m having surgery, okay? I must C  be hospitalized because they want to make sure that I don’t die after my surgery, you know, get a massive infection. K  Well, and they had to keep me an extended time period. And then like me being sick, they’re like, but just talk for a living? Like, why can’t you just talk for a living? I don’t get this whole. Okay, why are you sick? C  Why can’t you just talk for a living, but don’t forget to be ganky? Yeah. K  So there are good some but there are good things and bad things to American culture setting. I mean, goal setting, and good things and bad things to Japanese goal setting. And for me, I’ve fused the two and I’ve taken from both culture work both cultures, what works best for me. And my hope is that everybody listening with New Year’s coming up, that you will look at your New Year’s resolution and a pass or fail way that you’ll look at it. And you’ll decide if you didn’t do anything towards the goal, that that really wasn’t something you wanted to achieve. And look, it is something you feel like you should achieve versus like weight loss. I’ve never said weight loss as my goal on big fluffy, and I love it. And I plan to stay big and fluffy. And every time I see any one of my doctors, they’re like you having hereditary copper for a period is because you’re fat. You haven’t C  read Attari? K  Right. So my point of bringing that up is if like your goal was to lose weight, or if your goal is to does that or the other. Ask yourself like, Was that really what you wanted? Was that really the goal you wanted to set? And was that really a plan that you wanted to make? C  The way I think of it is? Are you working toward the success that you want? Or the success that you think is expected of you? K  Yeah, and I think that that’s a really good balance that we hope, all of our beautiful music notes take. And we want to thank you all for listening. And I know we haven’t been digressing lately, but C  yeah, we’re sorry. Well, we’ll work on that. K  We’ve been staying on topic, like really strictly. And I think that’s more to do with the fact that I’m semi on vacation right now. And Chad’s completely on vacation right now. C  It’s very nice. Yeah. K  So we don’t really have anything else going on. That’s not private. Because we talk about almost everything. And C  yeah, like I mentioned my day job occasionally, but I don’t mean the company and I don’t go into the details what I do because it’s so boring. It’s so boring. kisser is like, can we talk about something else? K  Yeah, he’s looking at my eyes glaze over right now. I’m trying not to roll my eyes like come stop and roll my eyes. Like the main thing that we have going on that we would have digressed about is, is the forgemasters, because we’re watching a show that has eight seasons are forged in fire. Yeah, for, and it’s really great show. But that’s like, we don’t really talk about TV. No. So we hope you enjoy the podcast, even though you may not have gotten the digressions you wanted. And for that, we apologize. And for those who are like, Finally, don’t get used to it. C  Goal, an easy win. Go subscribe to our Patreon. Only $3 a month. K  Yeah, support your favorite podcast. That’s an awesome goal. No, I C  didn’t say support your favorite podcast, or their favorite podcast. Thank you for the reminder. K  Yeah, hello. Unlike working so hard, I just want to be in the top five. And thank you to everyone in Antarctica who are listening to our podcast. That’s my fantasy. They’re, they’re using a VPN. We know you’re using a VPN and C  we see you we feel the chill. K  Right. So thank you so much for listening. We hope that you follow us on over to Patreon and we’ll talk to you next week. Bye bye.