Unchained. Unbothered.

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Georgia native Jaaza Clarke’s defining moment of adulthood was admitting she had chosen a field that wasn’t really the best fit for her. On this episode, she shares how she learned to regroup and reassess when she realized that her multiple interests resulted in her putting her most important passion on the back burner. She talks about listening to others’ voices and allowing them too much influence over her decisions. As a well-traveled woman who has lived and formed support networks outside of American borders, Jaaza also shares how many Black women she’s encountered who are foregoing motherhood because it’s a responsibility that would curtail their ability to live by the dictates of their own whims. She’s come to question the expectation that raising children should be something she plans to do simply because she is a woman. While most of her friends are mothers, Jaaza maintains the role has never really interested her. With the troubling condition of the current world and the sacrifices associated with motherhood, being childless strikes her as a much better option. Jaaza is honest about her struggle to nail down what is essential in her journey to freedom. She knows that peace and stability are paramount. However, she has a dormant desire to retire in Africa. While she knows the continent is not a cure-all for every trauma Black Americans experience in our own country, she does want to experience “what it feels like to see myself reflected everywhere I go. I want to be able to walk outside and see myself as the majority.”

A recent college graduate, Ashea Acevedo has spent a year in the work force and is preparing to attend graduate school soon. Born and raised in New York City, losing her mother as a young teenager gifted her with a wisdom about life and its challenges from a young age. On this episode, Ashea discusses one of the surprising realities of being an adult: no one considers you one if you’re still in your early 20s. She laments everyone from supervisors at work and family members at home dismissing her ideas and beliefs as if it is only age that is a determinant for smart decision-making. Ashea explains that being raised by a well-meaning father who did his best to prepare her for adult life came with the burden of unlearning some of those lessons he instilled. She talks about realizing the expectation that she give freely of her time and energy to people just because they needed you was what depleted her mother and exhausted other female relatives who had a hand in raising her. She cites the decision to create boundaries as key to her growth as a Black woman. This awareness of how we teach people there is nobility in giving until they’re depleted became sharper when Ashea was tasked to read “The Giving Tree” to her early elementary students. She refused to include the famous children’s story in her curriculum and continue the toxic narrative of happily allowing yourself to be chopped down into a stump in order to fulfill the whims of another. Ashea is so self-aware that she immediately admits her greatest struggle is to ask for help and accept it. Freedom has always meant financial independence – even from parents – so as a young woman just starting out in life, she is becoming more comfortable with not seeing financial help from her father as a weakness. “I’ve become better at asking for help and seeing it as making me a better person, a better adult,” Ashea says. “Asking my dad for money doesn’t make me any less free than if I didn’t need his help.”

Born and bred in the Bronx, Jackie Andalcio has taught high school in her hometown for three years. Her insular life as a Black girl raised in the New York City borough most known for its working class communities of color was in stark contrast to the life she discovered in college. On this episode, she talks about how the overwhelming whiteness of her college was one of many things that unsettled her once she became an adult. Jackie shares that in many ways, the role she played as peacekeeper in her family made her anxious and ill-equipped for dealing with the common travails of young adulthood. She had to learn how to advocate for herself in school, at the doctor’s office and eventually at work. An attractive woman of 25, Jackie is also balancing the fine act of making room for love, but not allowing an insincere lover to step over boundaries. She shares how she’s become more conscious of the relationship prototype that Black women are encouraged to seek: suffering and sacrifice until a man realizes you’re worth a relationship. She provides examples in pop culture and in everyday life of this “sassy” Black woman who complains about being treated poorly, but who does nothing about the poor treatment. She is getting better at ending relationships that take that shape as soon as they start. A Christian woman, Jackie also acknowledges the church’s historical allegiance to patriarchal archetypes have often led women of her mother’s generation to believe that this model of wife-as-sufferer is noble. Young Christian women her age, thankfully, reject such conditioning. Because she is committed to family and community, Jackie is beginning to see the need to create a path that is hers alone. “To consider myself free,” she says, “I need to be able to pursue the vision and desires I have for my life over anyone else’s vision or desire for me.”

Ethiopian by birth, but raised in Rwanda, Marianne Mesfin Asfaw has committed her professional life and her personal projects to gender equality on the continent she calls home. On this episode, she talks about how her job with an international women’s rights organization and her involvement with a collective of largely African feminists have informed how she navigates the world as a young feminist with global experiences. Marianne shares that her background as a global citizen began as early as her teens – where she studied in the West and lived with her sisters. She explains that such an early taste of independence makes it difficult now to deal with older people who don’t take her seriously just because she’s in her twenties. Having returned to Rwanda in the past year, she also is finding it difficult to deal with the suggestion that she devote more time to preparing for marriage or otherwise tailoring her behavior to fit the cultural standards of a young woman who is on the marriage market. Marianne shares stories of professional conversations with mentor figures turning into guidance on how to seek a life partner, older women dismissing her indifference to starting a family with edicts that “you’ll get over that,” and the occasional free spirited auntie showing her how to push back against such restrictive cultural norms. Marianne also shares how her studies in gender politics and her maturity as a young adult have caused her to critique pop culture and the media she consumed as a high school student. She even reflects more seriously on what her work in women’s rights has shown her about how much danger and fear large segments of women around the world must navigate on a daily basis. “As a young woman who does feminist work,” Marianne explains. “I am aware of how much we have to think about our own safety.” Marianne then goes on to cite what it would take for her to be able to claim the title of free. “I always wonder what it would be like to feel safe and not have to calculate my every move to avoid potential harm. I think once we have that for more women, I would feel free.”

When 27-year-old Danielle Taylor was in her teens, she imagined her late 20s would find her securely settled into a dream career and married with one child under her care and another on the way. In this episode, she shares how she came to reconcile her fantasy life with the reality of womanhood. Taking a while to find the right job in the field that was most congruent with her personality and passions wasn’t as simple as she thought it would be. She dated like most young people, but while still in her mid-20s learned that choosing the right partner was even trickier than choosing the right career. As she approaches her 30s, she talks about how grateful she is that she doesn’t have two kids calling her Mommy. Danielle opens up about coming to the decision not to have children at all – even if she does eventually find her ideal partner and they decide to marry. Her time struggling to find herself and her place in the world helped her to see that she really didn’t want to raise children. Danielle cites many reasons why, though she enjoys spending time with kids, she prefers the ones who can be returned. She talks about friends and family sometimes judging her choice simply because it is different than their own. As she reflects on her growth, Danielle ends by saying she seeks to find balance and happiness in her life. “My burning question is always ‘what do I really enjoy doing.’ I need to find out what really brings me joy instead of just what I do because an adult is supposed to do it.”

On this short episode, Keturah Kendrick drops by to check in on the listening audience. Expressing her concern about “the virus” and its rapid ravaging of the world, Keturah reflects on how this season’s focus on millennial women has actually given her hope. She talks about the young women’s self-awareness and commitment to their own paths and offers their insight into the world of young womanhood as signs that we will be alright. Keturah also informs the audience that she’s started a patreon page to offer bonus episodes and monthly columns to loyal fans. Exploring in greater depth the topics explored here on the show and in her book, this exclusive community of free women provides thought and dialogue to like-minded women.

Hailing from West Philadelphia, Shannon Griffin was exploring opportunities outside of her neighborhood from the time she was a teenager. On this episode, the 25-year-old traveler and thrill seeker talks about living in a predominantly Black neighborhood but going to school across town in an affluent, nonblack community. She explains how, in many ways, navigating these two worlds prepared her well for her college and post-college lives. After graduating from a university where she was one of few Black students, she moved to China. Shannon is honest about the hilarity and awkwardness that have been the themes of her experiences in the three years she’s called China home. She shares stories of curious questions about her hair as well as sincere attempts to connect with her and empathize with the oppressive treatment of Black Americans by their own country. Shannon is also honest about how cavalier she’s been in making lifestyle choices. While she’s grateful to exist in a time period where Black women can be flighty and just jump right into non-traditional lives without hesitation, she is cognizant that she’ll be thirty in only a few years. She is beginning to realize while the paths she’s taken so far have helped her grow and gifted her with many lessons, she has yet to take one that has purpose. She’s acutely aware that she needs to find her life’s mission. When asked if her life challenges what it means to be a good Black woman, Shannon thinks about the fact that she is an 18-hour flight away from all the people who share her last name in West Philadelphia. “I think I’m challenging this notion that you have to sacrifice everything for your family. I love them, but I don’t see it as necessary to return to Philadelphia or even American once I’m ready to leave China.”

A native New Yorker, Ama Gyamerah currently lives in California where she works in the film industry. With parents from Ghana and a network of women from the African diaspora, Ama formed a strong identity as a young girl of color before she was even in high school. On this episode, she talks about the shock to her system that was adulthood. Having attended an all-girls’ high school in East Harlem where everyone looked like her and believed in her, she didn’t quite know how to navigate the assumptions made about her once she went to a predominantly white university in a town that didn’t mirror the diversity of New York City. She shares microaggressions endured at the hands of white roommates and overt racist vitriol spewed on social media platforms during the height of the Black Lives Matter movement. Post-college, she was confronted with the reality of bills and entry level jobs that didn’t always cover all those bills. It was through these brand new traumatic experiences that Ama learned the true meaning of self-care. She began to practice the skill of pulling back from “the struggle” when said struggle was draining. Instead of always being in warrior mode, she learned to pour into herself. Because Ama’s older sister is a strong proponent of utilizing mental health services, Ama was also able to access consistent therapy. Because her mother and the other women who raised her had deeply entrenched West African values, the idea of having any other comfort for mental anguish outside of God was unfamiliar to her. She credits her sister’s wisdom and worldliness for exposing her to such a life-transformative resource. When Ama reflects on a narrative about Black womanhood she has come to challenge, it is the belief that Black women always have to be strong. She has always been a very emotional and sensitive person and grew up hearing that she needed to toughen up. “I don’t think it’s true that being sensitive and emotional are weaknesses,” she says. “I feel deeply and am not strong in the way people think Black women are supposed to be. I think vulnerability is important and doesn’t need to be corrected.”

At 23 years old, Armani Eady has committed her life to social justice – even if it doesn’t always mean she’ll create from scratch the platform from which to do it. On this episode, she shares how the first thing she did as a brand new college freshman was charter her predominately white university’s first ever organization for Black women’s equal and fair access to the school’s resources. Having gone to an all-girls high school where the student body and some of the faculty looked like her and reflected her worldview, Armani underestimated how life outside of her comfortable girl power bubble would require her to explain herself and resist constant edicts to shrink herself. She admits that those first few years post-high school surprised her because she’d never considered there were multiple ways to do womanhood and college exposed her to the diversity in choices young women like her were making. She has used these years in her young adulthood to learn how to enter romantic relationships from a place of wholeness, to adjust how she practices her faith and to take advantage of mental health services that are invaluable for her growth. As she works towards being a free Black woman in every sense of the word, Armani says what she needs to claim that title is to commit herself to her own wellness. “I’ve learned a lot of people aren’t interested in being well,” Armani states. “I decided I would be committed to being a well woman so I can help others become well, too.”

23-year-old Adanna Perry is fresh out of college and works as an elementary school teacher. She proudly identifies as a Black feminist and worked as an activist for the rights of Black women while in college. On this episode, she shares how difficult she found adjusting to adulthood once she left the community of sisterhood that formed while in her all-girls’ high school and continued as the friends she made there remained in close proximity to each other. A key difficulty Adanna encountered in post-college life was not having as easy access to this sisterhood once adulthood hit and everyone went their separate ways to start their lives. Adanna struggled to figure out how to assert herself at work without reinforcing the “angry black woman” trope she instinctively knew would be impossible to overcome. Adanna also shares how romantic relationships presented challenges as well because she was committed to being her authentic feminist self in every aspect of life. She discovered that the men who were attracted to her assertiveness and commitment to self didn’t support this self-preservation if it disrupted the narrative of how a black woman should conduct herself in a heterosexual relationship. She reminisces about what she learned from watching her mother put her own needs on the back burner as she supported her husband and cared for her children. Adanna commits herself to centering herself always – even when/if she decides to take on a traditional nuclear family. Out of all the lessons Adanna has learned in this year and a half of “grown up life,” the most important is to acknowledge her own self-worth, absent of her ability to please others. “I’ve learned that my value is not based on what I can do for other people or what I can give them,” Adanna says. “I, myself, am valuable just because I am me.”

30-year-old Amal White is a social worker by trade, but considers herself to be an activist who centers the struggles of Black women in her work. In this episode she talks about why she tells younger millennials that “adulthood is the ghetto.” According to Amal, the womanhood she’s experienced over the last decade has looked nothing like the womanhood she envisioned when she was a teenager. She thought she’d be married by twenty-one and mothering her first child by twenty-three. Amal talks about how messaging from the single women in her family and society in general caused her to think of marriage and motherhood as expectations of adulthood instead of choices one makes when becoming an adult. Amal also shares how easy it is to succumb to the pressure many women feel to shrink themselves for acceptance. “We’re not encouraged to be who we really are,” she says. “And when we are who we are, we’re seen as problematic.” Amal cites examples of ending relationships with good men and needing the freedom of mobility as ways in which she has been made to feel like she wants too much. When asked what she wished she could gift other women in her peer group, she doesn’t hesitate and says, “The courage to be their authentic selves. No one is going to let you be you. You really do have to take it.”

Entrepreneur and traveler, Tameshia Ridge started her international life like many millennials: she did a study abroad program that placed her in East Africa. In this episode, she explains how her ambition to eventually become a diplomat shifted once she had spent some time interning with the Rwandan government. Having connected with No Thanks: Black, Female and Living in The Martyr-Free Zone, Tameshia shares that the questions which propelled Keturah to move abroad were the same questions that inspired her to leave Rwanda and relocate to the west side of Africa. Noting that much of the book resonated with her, Tameshia focuses on the theme that unlike what many assume, working in Africa wasn’t transformative, missionary work. She expresses how ridiculous such an assumption is, particularly, when you are an educated American expat. “You end up trading one system of oppression (racism) for another. In Africa, that’s classism.” Being honest about the western privilege many Black American expats won’t talk about, Tameshia explains that she’s been able to accomplish so much overseas because of her passport privilege. To further her mission to debunk myths about being Black and American in Africa, she is candid when girlfriends ask her about moving to the continent to find their African king and get citizenship. “I only have my story about dating and what I know is factual about Ghana’s right to abode laws.” Tameshia also probes Keturah about a sentence in No Thanks in which she refers to her time abroad better equipping her for “self-salvation.” This leads into an insightful discussion about how it becomes easier to own your truth when you are constantly confronted with a culture that challenges who you are at your very core. Tameshia thanks Keturah for writing No Thanks, stating, “If I had this book eight years ago when I first moved to Africa, it would have made my landing a bit easier. I would have had the language for what I was feeling and experiencing.”

Keturah Kendrick chats with The Soul Sisters Book Club about "No Thanks: Black, Female, and Living in the Martyr-Free Zone." Based in Tennessee, the group discusses how they identified with Keturah's observations about how marriage is dangled in front of single women like a carrot and the condescension that results when you are a single woman who doesn't really care about that carrot. Several members share their own stories of not desiring marriage and having their words questioned, their values judged. Because of this, the group discusses in depth how often black women, in particular, aren’t believed. Whether it is about their own condition or even their pain, there is a persistent denial that the black woman herself is telling the truth about her existence. The club also asks Keturah questions about being an atheist and probe her for greater detail about living abroad. One member talks about defending her own nonbelief to a stranger in the grocery store and how this, too, is another aspect of black womanhood that is not believed as one’s truth. There is discussion of how many women around the world don’t know their own worth and Keturah shares anecdotes of women she’s met in her travels who succumb to the message that they are either not enough or too much. The women also probe Keturah about the candor in her essays about living in Rwanda and China. From loneliness to western privilege to still having to navigate white foolishness, Keturah goes into greater depth about what the expat life is like for single, black women abroad. Moderated by performance artist, speaker and reader, Dr. Kimberly Chandler, the women discuss the depth of the book's content with laughter and lightness. “I love that this book gives you the sense that whatever you feel in your heart is okay,” a soul sister says. “And the older I get, the more that is me.”

Leader of the Sistahs in the Story Book Club, Angela Smith goes into greater detail about connections she had to No Thanks: Black, Female, and Living in the Martyr-Free Zone. Referring to stories from the book club discussion in episodes 38 and 39, Angela explains how the female members of her family accosted her at a cookout because she was approaching her 40s and didn’t have children. She shares why she believes even her closest friends have questioned her choice to remain childfree: they never considered any other option for themselves and her presence shows them that there were many. Angela also retells the story of choosing to end a long-term relationship instead of following her boyfriend of 14 years across the country. She reflects on how shocked her boyfriend was when she said she had no interest in uprooting her life and moving to another state. This leads into a discussion about the outdated mindset that a woman’s greatest desire is to be chosen by a good man. Angela notes that it has only been a few decades since women could not even get a credit card without a husband’s signature. Therefore, she is unsurprised that her former beau assumed she would move away with him so he would continue to choose her. Angela is unbothered by what people assume she should do. A true free black woman, she casually says, “I find freedom in having options. And as long as there are options out there to have, I will keep taking them.”

Continuing the conversation from episode 37, Keturah chats with The Sistahs in the Story Book Club. The Chicago-based readers share even more personal connections to “No Thanks: Black, Female and Living in the Martyr-Free Zone.” Two of the women share how much they identified with the book’s theme of being content with their lives enough not to uproot them simply because their romantic partner wanted to marry. One member talks about not following her long-term partner across the country when he was offered a job opportunity. Another sistah chimes in with her story of letting her then-fiance know it was not worth it for her to sell her house and uproot her children just to relocate to another state because her future husband had an opportunity there. There is also extensive discussion about how easy it is not to see the shaming that occurs when Black women, particularly, choose themselves over children and husbands. Moderator, Dr. Kimberly Chandler, brings the discussion to a close by getting final thoughts from Keturah and the book club members. Keturah expresses her wish that we allow for a wider array of narratives to be given value in Black and mainstream culture so people don’t have to spend most of their lives trying to find the courage to own their truth. The Sistahs in the Story Book Club expresses their gratitude one last time for the gift of No Thanks. “You say give this book to a 20-year-old college student,” one of the ladies reflects. “But no, I’m not waiting that long. I’m giving it to the 15-year-old girls in the group I mentor so they can know early on it is okay not to want what everyone says they should want.”

Keturah Kendrick chats with The Sistahs in the Story Book Club about "No Thanks: Black, Female, and Living in the Martyr-Free Zone." Based in Illinois, the group of friends wanted to talk about why they identified with certain themes, had questions about others and general thoughts on the book's importance and relevance. Moderated by performance artist, speaker and reader, Dr. Kimberly Chandler, the women discuss the depth of the book's content with laughter and lightness. One sistah shares her story of her 21-year-old self marrying the father of her child even though her gut was telling her it was a huge mistake. “He was a liar and a cheater and I knew it and still married him anyway. That’s really sad.” Another sistah entertains the group with her story of being cornered at a family cookout and told by the women in her family it was time for her to start using her womb for the reason God had given it to her. “They called my grandma over too and all of a sudden it turned into this whole thing where everyone was dissecting what was wrong with me because I didn’t want kids.” Sprinkled in with anecdotes from Keturah’s own experiences while on book tour and Kimberly’s personal choices that have also caused pushback in her church community and others, The Sistahs in the Story Book Club probe deep into the messages of “No Thanks” and courageously share their connections to it.

Artist, reader, black feminist and self-described “book fairy,” Ola Ronke started the Free Black Women’s Library four years ago. With the impetus of wanting to create a space for black women to share and read works by other black women, she began collecting books and reaching out to friends for donations. On this episode, Ola boasts that she stopped counting the books once they reached 1200. She has books from different genres, different writing styles, different world perspectives. The only common link between each book is the author is a black woman. Each month, the library is at a different location in New York City (mostly in Brooklyn) and Ola curates discussions, workshops and author talks when the library makes its next stop. In addition to enhancing the literary lives of the readers who follow the library wherever it goes, Ola feels taking on this labor of love has given her so much as well. She talks about how it expanded her reading palate and opened her up to genres of literature she never even considered exploring. She feels it lights a fire in her to see through her 1200 books just how diverse in experiences and talents black women are. Running the Free Black Women’s Library has also forced Ola to become bolder and more assertive, which were not a part of her personality four years ago. She’s emailed some of the leading authors of today, asking them to come and speak at the library. Most of them graciously take her up on the invitation. Ola also talks about her mission in life and how it fits with what she is doing with the library and her work as an artist. She wants to create and celebrate beauty. She describes creativity as her super power so “I am fueled to create beauty, joy and love. And sensuality and pleasure are part of that creation as well.”

Host of the bold and unapologetic podcast, Comfortably Excluded, Montyy Taj grew up often being the “only one.” She was bussed into a “better” school district and enrolled in Advanced Placement course so she became used to being the Black kid who was excluded from the social network whiteness and middle class status brings. In addition to her podcast, Montyy is also working on a documentary, Running with My Girls, about women of color in Denver who are campaigning for political office. In this episode, Montyy explains how the idea for her podcast was born out of her journey to get comfortable with not being included in spaces that were unwelcoming to her. She brings on guests who have found a way to create thriving lives for themselves in spaces where they are not organically included and also shares her perspectives on pop culture happenings. Her goal is to move the show in a slightly different direction, featuring the voices of Black Denver residents, specifically, whose presence in the city is often invisible as white power structures actively seek to erase them. Montyy also shares her frustration with the silence surrounding the invisibility of Black queer and transwomen. Since she grounds her own work in the Black community, it is difficult for her to reconcile the community’s allegiance to the safety and humanity of the heterosexual male with its indifference to the record number of murders of queer and transwomen. She connects this apathy to how deeply engrained patriarchal structures are in every aspect of society - its grip on socially conservative Black folk especially tight. This truth makes Montyy all the more aware of how difficult it is for a Black woman to claim freedom. “It is a moving target, an ever going, uphill battle – especially for the Black woman,” she says. “But, I find freedom when I take back my narrative and give myself permission to find my own way.”

31-year-old Phoenix Williams dropped out of college seven years ago to follow her dream of becoming a fulltime author. Having now published many books and established a platform as a speaker and lecturer, she has no regrets. On this episode, she talks about giving herself permission to live her truth. She writes for black women who are still stuck in what they “should” do or “should” be, hoping that the characters she creates will give these women the courage to stop caring about all the “shoulds.” Readers of her erotica often comment on how the stories helped them embrace their sexuality and be honest with their partners about what they wanted. Getting her readers to be more honest with themselves is part of Phoenix’s mission. In one of her most popular series, she makes sure there is at least one character who is going to therapy and is supported by friends and family in their decision to do so. She wants to destigmatize seeking out mental health services in the black community. She also wants her characters to get her readers to be more honest with the people they love. “I am living my best life right now,” Phoenix laughs. “But sometimes you need help to live your best life. You need to actually be honest with the people you love, too.” Since many read to see themselves in the stories that authors tell, Phoenix has been intentional in showing her loyal followers Black women who are being authentic and bold. Characters who are connected to people and resources who will help them be the best versions of themselves. It is Phoenix’s wish that her readers model their example.