Go Small Or Go Home w/ Chad Carson
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In this episode, Coach Chad Carson joins us again to talk about an important article he wrote for BiggerPockets on making sure your investment goals are in line with your life goals.
Link to article: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/go-small-or-go-home
Link to Chad's website: https://www.coachcarson.com/
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Transcript
Michael:
Hey everybody. Welcome to another episode of The Remote Real Estate Investor. I'm Michael Albaum and today I'm joined by my co host, Emil Shour. We have a very special guest with us today. Chad Carson is joining us again, and Chad's going to be talking to us today about his article that he wrote for BiggerPockets. Why the Massive Real Estate Empire you think you want won't give you the life you imagine? So let's get into it.
Chad Carson, thanks so much for coming back on the podcast, man, we so appreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedule to hang out with this.
Chad:
Happy to do it. Thanks for asking me back.
Michael:
No, of course, of course. So you wrote an article that got published on BiggerPockets. And we're gonna link to that in the show notes. But the article is called why the massive real estate Empire you think you want won't give you the life you imagine? So we're gonna have you read an excerpt from this article. But I would love to know to kick things off. What made you write this article was kind of your inspiration.
Chad:
Yeah, I wrote a lot on bigger pockets I haven't written as much lately, but also wrote a book for bigger pockets. And so I just I love the ecosystem of BiggerPockets. I love the team behind the scenes. It's just a great service to real estate investors and was immersed in a lot of that, though, I think I heard a common refrain. And it's not necessarily a bad thing. But a lot of the podcasts, a lot of the articles you read the ones that really stood out, were the ones talking about get as big as you can, you need to syndicate, you need to get it 1000s of units.
And that was exciting. I guess it makes you know, my podcast hosts your podcast, it makes exciting, you know, headlines when you have this person who bought 50 properties in one year. And that's amazing. But as I thought about it, like the people I knew, both in like the non famous people, nobody even knows who they are, but they have tons of lifestyle, and they have flexibility. And they do what matters to them. A lot of these people had like five properties or three properties, and they had paid them off. And they were really simple. And it was nothing to write home about supposedly.
But if you measure things a little bit differently, it actually was pretty incredible. And so I wrote the article to try to tell that story and to explain kind of my point of view on that. And the headline was, you know, go small or go home, because the Grant Cardones of the world are saying you need to 10x otherwise you're no good, you know. He in particular, you know, maybe I get Grant Cardone on my show one day and have a discussion.
Michael:
Have a chat with him.
Chad:
Yeah. But I wanted to be kind of the the foil to that not because that's wrong, not because people shouldn't get big and go big. Like, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is all of us who think keeping things simple, and going small, is just perfectly fine and actually preferred. I wanted to give a voice to that for those people and make an argument, why that's actually a better thing, in many ways.
Michael:
Michael:
Awesome. Love it.
Emil:
I love that I stumbled on this and like the perfect time because I was starting to have that internal conflict where I'm like, man, am I just not thinking big enough? Like, I think this is what I want. But you see it everywhere, like you mentioned, like everyone's saying, Oh, I just took down 100 units here. And he starts to be like, is that what I need to do to be successful? And I love that this reframes that. So yeah.
Chad:
Yeah.
Michael:
All right. So let's jump into a chat if you want to kick us off here and tell us this a story of three real estate investors.
Chad:
All right, great. Yeah, I'm gonna get my place here. So a story of three real estate investors. And I got to give a little background to this before I start reading it, because I actually got this story from other people, as many stories come from actually a real estate investor named Jack Miller, who was a teacher for many years, he's now passed away, but he was a really good teacher. And I used to go to seminars with him early on in my career, and pretty sure I got the story from him. He probably got it from somebody else as well, but I adapted it for my own purposes.
The story goes that there were one summer there were three real estate investors, and they were their couples. And they traveled together to Europe and these investors that originally met each other as beginner investors in the BiggerPockets forum, and they liked each other a lot. And they helped each other kind of grow along the way. And so they became friends. And then about 15 years later, they each had experience some success with the real estate business, and they wanted to kind of go and enjoy the fruits of all of their efforts, because why not? Right, so they decided to go spend 14 days together visiting the Mediterranean coast.
First they were going to go explore some ancient cities in Italy, like enjoying some amazing foods and good wine perhaps. And then they were going to continue with a high quality kind of a Mediterranean cruise that would stop at Croatia and Greece. And they even go to one of my friends. Another bigger pockets author, his home country Arian Shehi lives in. It was from Albania has family still in Albania. He's from there originally. So another cool place.
So could these investors afford a nice trip like this? So you can imagine going to Italy and go on the Mediterranean coast? Well, let's take a look at the financial scoreboard to see how they could afford it using their real estate.
So couple number one was Liz and Tom and they are in their 50s and they live invest in self manage their properties in Missouri in the state of Missouri, and over the last 15 years they've bought 10 single family houses one by one and good neighborhoods. Liz and Tom search hard to buy these houses as fixer uppers. So they needed some work, they were able to buy them below value because of that. And they use the BRRRR strategy to recoup most of their cash on each deal. So they would kind of recycle their cash, buy another deal, fix it up, get it rented, do another deal. And then they would use what's called the Debt Snowball technique to pay off their mortgages early. That's something I talk a lot about as well. So they started with a BRRRR, they got loans, they paid off their debt. And so now their houses produce $7,000 per month, or $84,000 per year in positive cash flow. So that's number one.
Number two, Tiffany and Darius are in their early 40s. They live in New York, and they invest in North Carolina using a property manager. And 15 years after they started, they now own 150 unit apartment building, Tiffany and Darius began with smaller properties. And then they used a 1031 exchange. So a tax free exchange to kind of trade up from the smaller properties into these bigger properties until they had enough equity for a down payment on that the big 50 unit building. So they have 50 unit building has a solid fixed interest, 25 year mortgage. And the property itself after paying all their expenses produces $10,000 per month or $120,000 per year in positive cash flow. So that's couple number two.
Couple number three is Mike and Martin. And they're in their late 40s. They live in Nevada, and they own properties all over the country. 15 years after they started, they now have 500 units, Mike and Lauren began with their their rentals, but they because of their ability to put together great deals. They also began syndicating deals by pooling money from other people. So they were the general partner and they they recruited money from other people, their portion of the rental income equals over $30,000 per month, or $360,000 per year, their portfolio produces the most money out of all three couples.
So it's pretty clear to see we got into the weeds there. But all three couples can easily afford to pay for this nice European vacation. You know, money is not the issue. This is exactly why all of them began investing in the first place. But the story it gets a little more interesting as they approach the end of this trip.
So let's extend the trip a little bit. By the end of this trip. All three couples have had a fabulous time. It's been great so far. In fact, a couple number one, Liz and Tom propose, hey, let's all stay a few weeks longer. You know, there's a lot more to explore here. We're already here. Why don't we just do that Liz and Tom's rentals are full of self reliant tenants who automatically deposit their rent each month. And the tenants can email or leave a voicemail with any kind of maintenance emergencies if they come up, but this rarely happens and with no debt or immediate plans to buy more properties, their business schedule is amazingly flexible.
Couple number two Tiffany and derrius. They check their calendars. They have a few community and church functions, but they can put those off until later. So their property manager is very competent and in control the day to day issues on their 50 unit building. And because there's no major financing or remodeling projects looming, they happily agree to stay over as well.
But a couple of number three, Mike and Lauren have some challenges they want to stay and can easily afford the expensive extending the trip. But there are projects looming back at home. Remodeling contractors are waiting for their guidance on some recent value add apartment purchases they made, a new property manager needs to be found to replace them underperforming on with some of their units. Their corporate bookkeeper and administrator need help some of their equity investors want to meet with them to discuss some past and future projects. As a result, Mike and Lauren regretfully declined the vacation extension.
So this kind of leads me to one of the main points of this is the myth of the passive big business. Mike and Lauren do not have a bad business. In fact, it's financially the most successful business of the three investors. But here are the questions I always ask to the Mike and Lauren's of the world. Did your investment business meet your true goals? Are you spending your time doing what's most important to you, and what alternative approaches have met your goals just as well with less hassle and less risk along the way? Because it's possible that Mike and Lauren are happy with the current situation that they are like more power to him, I'm happy for him.
But my experience has shown that many people in their situation are less than happy. The extra money that they have, has come at a cost. And I'm sure I can get examples from all sorts of people listening to this with comments about Shark Tank hosts and famous entrepreneurs and BP you know, bigger pockets, podcast guests and other people on the podcast who've built really big businesses that also check all of those goals off the list.
Now I'm sure they're out there. And it's fine to provide those successful examples. But the bottom line is you the person listening to this? What are your goals? And what's the best way to achieve them? Are you a shark tank host? Or are you just a regular person like me, and who's trying to free yourself from the nine to five grind so that you can live an extraordinary life. So I know a lot of real estate investors. I know a lot of entrepreneurs, and at least in my experience, the ones with the most money, have big businesses. If that's your number one metric like go for it. Go for the big business. But the ones I know the most free time, if that's what you want, the most flexibility are the ones that have, and also the ones that have less stress, have smaller, simpler businesses and portfolios. And interestingly, I don't see these smaller investors worrying that they have a smaller net worth than the big investors. It seems they're too busy enjoying their life.
Michael:
Ah, it's so good.
Emil:
So good, so much better when Chad reads it for us.
Michael:
It really hits quite differently.
Emil:
Yeah.
Chad:
Yeah.
Michael:
So Chad, is this something that you've applied to your life? Have you always known this? Or is this something that you came across kind of later in your investing career?
Chad:
Now like, I'm the kind of person has to get smacked upside the head by anything. So I don't want to act like I've got any, like prior knowledge here.
A brief version of my story was in 2007, my business partner and I were like, kind of following that path a little bit, you know, like the, hey, let's get bigger and bigger is better. You know, just honestly, it was like looking at goals of other investors who we admired. Like, we admire these people, they were really good. And there was fun, and I'm, I played sports in life. I'm a competitor, like, I think it's fun to go compete for something. And it's, so we did the same thing. And we were we had in 2007 39, closings, some of those closings had, and those are all acquisitions closings. And some of those are multiple properties. You know, like some multi unit apartments. Some of those are flips, or buying, fixing, and flipping. Some of them are buy and hold rentals. But we were like, really, really busy. But we kind of took a step back, and I have to give credit to my business partner has my 50-50 business partner who we've been together from the very beginning. And he kind of pushed back on it more than I did, saying, like, wait a minute, like, we're so busy. And we've made some money this year. But what are we trying to accomplish here? Like, where are we really like moving towards the goals?
And we actually sat down and had like a kind of Heart to Heart business meeting where we each wrote down on a piece of paper, like, what are the things that are really most important to us? Or more specifically, like, what would we spend our time doing? If money were no object is such a good exercise, I encourage everybody to do it.
And the kinds of things I wrote down at that time is a 27 year old, and I just got married that year, where I wanted to go play basketball, pick up basketball in the middle of the day, for two hours, I wanted to go hiking in the woods with my wife, I wanted to travel abroad and do some things like that. Now some of those costs money, like traveling abroad cost some money, but like playing pickup basketball for two hours, hiking in the middle of the day, like that cost zero money, but the biggest limitation was how much free time and flexibility I had.
And at that time, I did not have flexibility and free time. And I was like, wait a minute, like, what am I doing here? It sort of reminded us and again, get my credit my business partner, and also maybe reading books, like the four hour workweek, I think kind of hit me upside the head a little bit too, you are in control of how you build your business. There's no, nobody telling you, you have to buy a certain number of units. There's nobody telling you how to run it a certain way. Like you are the architect of your business. And how you build that real estate business will determine how much free time and flexibility you have. So it's up to me, it's up to you to be able to do that.
Michael:
That's so good. It's so good.
Emil:
When you came to that realization, did you put a new goal in place? like okay, here's the goal. And I'm always curious about like, the way this kind of happens for me is I set a goal, we reach it. And then like anyone who's kind of Type A the goalpost changes. All right. Now he did that. What's next? And so like, I'm just curious how you've dealt with that over the years?
Chad:
Yeah, I'm the same way. I think we all are this, like the hedonic treadmill idea, I think just built into our psychology is that we get to something or like, Oh, that was nice. Let me get the next piece of candy. You know, like, it's just what we do.
But I found something that I don't know where I read this or heard about it that but if you make goals for experiences, and transformation, those actually tend to last a little bit more, or at least you had the memories of them. And I think it was from the four hour workweek that kind of inspired me to start taking some mini retirements. And so we actually made a goal my wife and I did to travel abroad, like, let's not wait, we're old to do this, like, we had the money like we were saving money, we live frugally. We're making good money. And it was more about just I need to like, build some systems into this business in order for us to be able to travel for multiple months at a time.
It took us a while It took us like a year, year and a half to really detach ourselves from some of the things that we had going on to build systems in the business where I had some other people doing things that I was doing prior previously. And then also just working with my business partner to say, Alright, what systems Am I running? What systems are you running? How can we automate this? How can we do some things remotely into 2007? We kind of had the aha moment. 2008 and then 2009. In August 2009, my wife and I went on a kind of our first big mini retirement where we got the backpacks out, went to Spain for six weeks, I learned to speak Spanish, she was already fluent in Spanish. And then we it was a little higher dollar in Spain. We loved in Spain, but we also wanted to go to South America. So we flew back and went to Peru and stay there for a month in order to keep up Peru and just loved it. And that's where I really learned to speak Spanish at that point. And then we traveled down to LA and hiked around in Patagonia kind of southern tip of South America.
Then came back up to Buenos Aries and spent some time there and along the way met so many amazing people, other people traveling other people who lived there locally.
It was one of those like for a type a person, you know, like one of those experiences where like physically like about eight weeks into that trip I felt like a not like untied in my chest where I was like, wait a minute, like I didn't realize that not was even tied. And now the thing is, I'm tying in Latin America in particular for me, this has a special place because I feel like there's a there's just a kind of ethos of connection with other people and relationships in the value of slowing down.
We Americans do not always appreciate that like there and probably other places in the world as well appreciate the value of slowness and deliberateness. That trip for me was kind of transformational because it got me hooked on that. And it got me hooked on, Emil, like goals that are more difficult to quantify but so much more impactful on on who you are and on your life.
Michael:
Just quick side note, I'm so glad that you mentioned that you really learned Spanish when you were in down in Peru and say holy crap six weeks in Spain and you learn Spanish, like know how embarrassing for me?
Chad:
No, not at all. I mean, I was doing a little bit there. But I'd taken one semester in college and I spoke German in college. So I kind of had one foreign language that helped when you learn the second one is a little bit easier. But right, I hasn't really say that I speak Spanish because it's like, up and down. And I was very fluent then sure. And since then we went Ecuador, and I got better. And it just, I still have my gringo accent. And I still,
Michael:
Of course, of course.
Chad:
But I have a Spanish teacher at home who can who can correct me luckily.
Michael:
Perfect. It's funny, because I had a bit of a similar smack upside the head to you in that I have a good friend of mine who's really become more of a mentor. And he's a young gun like me. And he's like growing, growing, growing, growing as fast as he can and recommend doing the same thing. And he's like, 1000 units. That's where I'm at. And then I have another very close friend who's 66. So he's quite a bit older in his career. And he's like, dude, like, is this in line with your life plan and life goals? I was like, I didn't even think to ask that question when I started, because all he could see was right in front of my face, like grow, grow, grow, this is what I can do now this what I can do now. And I'm hitting this running after this unit count in this cash flow count, not even thinking about what is this mean for my life?
I think it's so important to take a step back, even when you're just beginning even if you do have the ability to grow, grow, grow. But stop and ask yourself for every single question is this aligned with my life plan and goals.
Chad:
It’s also the pace. One thing I wrote about in the article that I didn't mention here, just that we didn't talk about is the pace at which you grow, you know, it took you 30 years to get 1000 units versus taking you five years to get 1000 units. Those are two different like scenarios, because you probably have to have a different relationship with debt, a different relationship with leverage different relationship with just speed and pace. There's nothing wrong with growing but even if your ambition is growing is like how are you doing? Are you doing in a way that I compared to like climbing a mountain, like if you want to climb Mount Everest, my wife and I tried to do this one time we were in a canyon, like climbing a canyon and South America going down and I was like, you know, oh, we've got this. We're like hiking all the time. And I went fast all the way back up. And I almost passed out like because I went way too fast. And I you know, didn't have enough water and dehydration.
And I compare that the same thing. If you were a professional mountain climber, you wouldn't just go straight to the top of Mount Everest like you would go up climatized little bit, come back down, go up a little bit more climatized. And I think that's a more reasonable approach to business as well, it but it requires something that very few of us, myself included, have a hard time with his patience. He gotta be patient, and be willing to just plug along, hike slowly. That's so difficult. It is For me.
Michael:
It is so difficult, especially when you have the means and you think you have the ability or the bandwidth or what have you. You're like, Oh, it's right here. It's so easy. I'm, I'm already doing this. So what's another project? What's one more project with one more project, it becomes very easy. Again. Yeah, Emil is laughing.
Emil:
Ask Michael how he knows!
Michael:
It's really scary. And it kind of can overwhelm you. And I talked about this on prior episodes. But I left my nine to five engineering job last August in 2019. And that first week that I didn't have a job, I was the busiest I've ever been in my entire life. And it's because I was taking on project after project after project thinking I could handle it. And it just it Yeah, it really consumes you.
And so I have very hardly adapted since then that I think smaller is better. And I love Love, love that you talked about the debt snowball. I think that often hits people upside the head pretty quickly. And like Oh, you mean I don't have to go buy 15, 20, 30 units, I can just focus on the 6,7,8,9 I have and pay those off and get the same result. I think it's pretty eye opening.
Emil:
In the article. There's this image that you have at the top of the article called the fulfillment curve and it shows like fulfillment going up is you have survival comfort, small luxuries and at the top you have like a star saying enough. And then it starts to come down and says clutter complexity and hassle. I think for a lot of people who invest in real estate who, by their nature are super frugal and don't even like like spending money. Yeah, you can grow, you can expand things, but most likely, we're all just gonna be like chipmunks storing more money in the bank.
Chad:
Yeah, I gotta give credit for that. And I actually got permission to use that in the book I wrote retire early with real estate from Binky Robin, your money or your life, probably my favorite financial books, people haven't read that it's kind of an old school book, this, they've got a new version A few years ago, the concept of that enough, like, it's kind of like patience, you know, it's one of the typical things to get with money. And the filmmaker you're mentioning, if you think about the free first $100 you earn right out of college, or right out of high school or something like that. $100 will buy you like tons of pizza, it'll buy you like, you know, a little bit of value food, it can get you some clothes,
Michael:
Numerous beers,
Chad:
Yeah, you're gonna get a lot of satisfaction out of that person. $100, right. But if you fast forward that and you keep going up more and more, you're going to get to a point, this is difficult to find that point. But there's a point where every extra dollar you get is going to mean, you're gonna have to work a little bit longer, you're going to have to buy extra, you're going to be buying more stuff is going to complicate your life, you're going to get boats, you're going to get cars, you're going to end, now that you have this fancy car, you're going to be worried about somebody running by it one day with a key and like scratching your fancy car. And there's just it comes with worry, it comes with anxiety.
Some of the philosophers like Henry David Thoreau, who I really admire, like the transcendentalist. And Emerson, if you look at some of them, and the stoics, and the Roman stoics, they were about being happy with what you have, and finding the place, that's enough for you. And very often, they would say, like money and wealth is an obstacle like to being happy being fulfilled, that you actually feel like you have enough. And that's another thing I've just admired in my own travels, like you meet some people who you stay with, and their guest house or whatever, with a lot less money than you, but you talk to them and see how much joy they have and see how generous they are. You don't need a lot of money to do that. And when you think about the people you really admire in your life, the most generous and who are the most happy and bring the most joy to your life? You know, there's a disconnect. It has nothing to do with money.
Again, not something I'm perfect with. But it's at least challenged me to think about, like, where does money fit into that relationship by Why do I need money, I need money to take care of the necessities, I need money to make this comfortable. Like I want us to live in a house that's warm, and I want us to live in a place that's safe. So of course, but when you get beyond that, when you start getting the biggest house and you start getting five houses, when you start to live in and you start getting the nicest cars, there's no doubt there's some baggage that goes along with those that I think at least from my own life makes me even less happy.
Michael:
I think you touched on something previously that our circle back to in that when you put goals and ambitions around experiences, rather than material things or dollar amounts. I think it's lasting longer as I think the way you said it. And I totally agree. I also think that is kind of a good thought experiment and exercise you should write down you know what it is that you want to do for a year, if you could walk away from your job for your What do you want to do, and then figure out how much that costs. And I think people will be shocked to recognize and realize, well, a lot of the money that they're earning is going away to taxes anyhow. So if you're earning money through passive income, you don't need as much as you're currently making. And it might not cost as much as you think it is to live and do whatever it is that you're looking to do for a year or two years or what have you. So that's something that I'm gonna have to sit down and do as well, because I think it is pretty eye opening.
Chad:
When you have free time. Like it totally changes your relationship with money as well. Just think about one specific example. Let's say you had the next three months completely free, you could do whatever you wanted to do. And you really didn't have an agenda on where you wanted to travel. Like let's say post COVID, we can actually travel, I'm just itching to do you know, there are deals every day where you can get a flight for 200 bucks to someplace that should cost 1500 bucks to fly to. And if you just like to say you spin a wheel said I'm just gonna go wherever the $200 flight is.
Michael:
Airport roulette.
Chad:
Yeah, like, you can just say, I'm just going like, bingo, I'm going to Singapore, I'm going to you know, wherever it is, because that's the kind of thing you can do. And you have flexibility of time. And most people do their budgets based on this busy work lifestyle where they're working 5060 hours a week, they have two weeks of vacation per year, they have to go in those specific two weeks, and they have to fly the certain times.
Man, when you give yourself a year, a year and a half to do whatever you want to do, the cost of things totally changes. Because if it costs a lot of money to go there, all right, I'll just wait for how does take my time, or I'll just go to a different place or I'll get there a different way. And it's a totally different mindset. And that's kind of the retirement lifestyle that people think about. But when you build that into your early life as well, and you take many retirements and you just slow things down, you might not need as much money as you really thought you did before.
Michael:
I was posting on Twitter the other day having conversation back and forth to somebody about I was curious to know how much money people spent having a job. So the work the clothes, the coffee, the meals, the transportation back and forth and someone goes I'm sure someone already did this. And so of course somebody had and it was like several $1,000 a year. So you subtract that out. You take out the tax. I mean, it really starts to become more manageable I think then then a lot of people realize.
Emil:
I think, for me, I've bookmarked this article, I know myself, I forget this message often. And it's so important. It's something I want to like, come back to yearly, if not quarterly, to just like reinforce that mentality, or else again, I think if you're a competitive if you're a type A, it's really, really easy to lose this message. And it's so so damn important.
Chad:
I have to go back and read it myself. Like, everything I write, I like I am the number one like receiver of this message. It's like my better self sitting on one shoulder like talking over here. So this is like the stoic chat writing this thing talking to the like, the chat is like, you know, gluttony over here, eating all this food and traveling really fast and buying all these properties. I'm there as well. And I think it comes back, Emil, too like, what you pointed out like is how you set your ambitions. I think it's great to be ambitious. I think that's what part of what makes entrepreneurship so compelling is that we see things out there that bother us, and we go out and solve it like this. I think that's amazing.
And I admire entrepreneurship. And I am like, through and through in my DNA, I am an entrepreneur, I love it. I think it's awesome. I've just been trying to figure out like, number one, it's like, let's find some balance, because there's other things in life, and you need to take some naps, and you need to enjoy your family. That's part one. But then Part two is like, Where can you channel that ambition in different ways. And the most intriguing thing for me lately has been like social entrepreneurship. There's a Nobel Peace Prize winner called Muhammad Yunus from Bangladesh, who won the Nobel Peace Prize for doing micro lending businesses in Bangladesh, and a spread kind of around the world as the Grameen Bank, and people are very familiar with micro lending now.
But he even broader talks about how entrepreneurs once you've made it financially, or maybe even gotten a little bit of a nest egg, why not turn your energy and your entrepreneur entrepreneurial effort towards social problems and other things that you could solve with a businesslike solution, but then you do it in a way that maybe doesn't make you any profit at all, or, you know, you're not doing it to make money. And so I'm really intrigued by that.
I've been doing it locally with a nonprofit trying to build an alternative transportation network in our communities, and not just cars, but bikes and walking and people work, you know, moving about who don't have cars, I don't want to use cars. That's kind of my little experiment locally. But there's also other interests, like affordable housing and health care. I mean, you just we can all we can make a list of like problems in our society, that if we if we had more smart, financially independent entrepreneurs working on them, man, like, how much better could we be? And I think I think that's something in our kind of circle of real estate investor, podcast and financial independence community kind of people that we can kind of get around that they have all these smart people that we know, thinking about that, and having the ambition to free up our time so that we can go change the world together. I think that would be just a pretty cool ambition in the big picture.
Emil:
Love that.
Michael:
Yeah, that's awesome. Well, Chad, always such a pleasure to have you on man. Thanks so much for taking the time.
Chad:
Yeah, you as well. You guys have fun on this podcast. You talked about good topics, and good stuff.
Michael:
We try.
Emil:
We try.
Michael:
Awesome. We'll Chad, if folks have more questions would like to reach out to you. We'd like to get a hold of your books, what's the best way for someone to get in touch?
Chad:
A couple different places. I know you'll have the BiggerPockets link to that article on there. I checked on that article. Every once in a while it's been become pretty popular on there, one of my more popular articles, so I can leave a comment there. And then I also wrote a book for BiggerPockets called retire early with real estate, which you can check out and it's kind of that article, even bigger, like the whole book is kind of built around that concept. And it gets into house hacking, and it gets into debt snowballs, and it gets into what you do after you achieve kind of your number for financial independence. How do you build some resiliency, so backup plans using entrepreneurship and other things.
So the book is definitely something I would recommend to kind of get started. I have a podcast as well, that's kind of centered at coachcarson.com, The Real Estate and Financial Independence Podcast. And if people would like to add another one in addition to this podcast to their podcast list that would be honored to have you over there.
Michael:
Fantastic. Thanks again, man. And I hope to do it again soon.
Chad:
Thank you, Michael. Thanks, Emil, great talking to you.
Michael:
Likewise.
All right, everybody. That was our episode. Thanks so much for listening. A big, big, big thank you to Chad Carson, as always super gracious with his time really fun guest to have on the show. If you haven't checked out his website, I highly recommend you do it. And if you haven't checked out his books or blog posts that he's made, I can also highly recommend them. So thanks so much for listening and happy investing.
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