16/10/2018 | 38:49
YouTube, the Prospecting Channel - Brett Curry - FHR #278
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Why Dave Decided to talk to Brett:
Brett Curry is the CEO of OMG Commerce, a digital marketing agency and Google Premier Partner. He is also the host of the eCommerce Evolution Podcast highlighting what’s new and what’s next in eCommerce. He and his team manage Google, Amazon, and YouTube ad campaigns for over 100 growing brands. Brett shares his knowledge of creating ads, what works and what doesn’t, and best practices for advertising.
Tips and Tricks for You and Your Business:
Using Youtube To Prospect: The Mysterious Black Box (1:20)
Make Yourself Clear- What Is Your Product Is About? (13:22)
Easiest Ways To Get Customers From Youtube To Your Product: (17:38)
Tips For Creating Videos: (19:32)
"Are you saying enough to make someone say-- hey this is different, unique, and I want to find out more about it."
"Do something in the first 5 seconds to arrest someone on your product."
"If you have a great video or funnel, I believe now is the time to use youtube."
Brett goes into great detail on intent based targeting--targeting people on Youtube based on their google search history. He discusses how to properly build successful campaign advertising videos and gives wonderful advice on how to make them very effective.
Links: FunnelHackerRadio.com FunnelHackerRadio.com/freetrial FunnelHackerRadio.com/dreamcar
Speaker 1: 00:00 Welcome to funnel hacker radio podcast, where we go behind the scenes and uncover the tactics and strategies top entrepreneurs are using to make more sales, dominate their markets, and how you can get those same results. Here's your host, Dave Woodward. Everybody. Welcome back to it.
Speaker 2: 00:18 Funnel Hacker radio. This is going to be a fun, fun experience because it's a dear friend of mine. I wanted to do she guys too. I've known him for years and the guys absolutely crushing it in ecommerce eyes. Got his own. He's a CEO of Omg Commerce to digital market agency. You also is the host of the ecommerce evolution podcast. Welcome to show Mr Brett Curry. Welcome, Brett.
Speaker 3: 00:36 Dave, what's up man? So excited to be here. This is gonna. Be Fun.
Speaker 2: 00:40 It is so crazy. I remember, Gosh, I think. I think we met way back in the DOTCOM secrets local era. It was,
Speaker 3: 00:48 yeah. I was trying to remember dates. I'm terrible with dates, but I think it was 2009, 2010. That's. We're working closely with Russell on some dotcom secrets, local stuff and we started hanging out and a crazy where our paths have taken a sense then, but that was fun. Fun Times.
Speaker 2: 01:04 You guys have a killer agency that has just been crushing it for quite some time. You've done everything from, from TV, from local media to know you've got a ton of articles out there. You're doing this obviously, right? Niggas really specialized in the whole physical products on ecommerce, but one of the things I, if you're alright with I'd love to dive into and one of things you're kind of talking about before and that's this whole youtube thing and it's kind of this mysterious black box everyone talks about, but you have. You've mastered this thing, so I'm going to dive right in. Are you okay with that?
Speaker 3: 01:30 Let's do it. Yeah. Love, love talking to you to my favorite. It is the marketing topic of choice for me to nerd out on right now and I like talking all things marketing, but youtube is at the top.
Speaker 2: 01:42 Well how do you use it as a prospecting channel? That's one thing I know a lot of people struggle with. How do I actually use it to prospect?
Speaker 3: 01:49 Yeah. So it's interesting, you know, I think youtube has been a powerful channel for years and years if you're good at creating content. So, you know, if you go back to the Gary Vee days, you know, if you're a Gary v and he built Wine Library TV and just really launched his career on Youtube and they're a lot of other content creators. We've done kind of the same thing. And so that, that's been a powerful youtube would powerful on, on that front for a long time. Uh, but, but recently, you know, Google's come out with some ad formats that are really powerful. And namely the ad format we use is called Tru vue and it's called trueview. It's, everybody's seen it, you know, if you go to youtube, you're going to watch a music video or, or a cat video or whatever your video of choices. You're going to youtube and check that out.
Speaker 3: 02:37 It's the ad that pops up before that. So it's the pre roll, uh, in stream ad is what they're called. Those are the ones that are skipable. So, so I Bet Dave Woodward, you've had the experience where one of those ads pop up and you think, curse you advertiser. I just want to walk my work avenue, but something about the ad hooks you in that first five seconds, I'm magical. Five second window it you and you watched the whole thing. A lot of them you'd probably skip and that's fine. Um, but the beauty of that is from an advertising standpoint, you don't pay if someone skips, so you only pay if someone watches the ad or if they clicked through to your site so that they engage with it before you as an advertiser pay. So that's what we're using. We're using truview in a lot of different capacities.
Speaker 3: 03:20 And the beauty of this is a one, the youtube audience is massive. I mean everybody's on youtube billion users worldwide on a monthly basis, 18 to 49 year olds. You know, I saw a stat more people watch youtube during prime time, then the top TV, top 10 TV goes combined. Um, I even saw it turn, which is interesting for 13 to 17 year olds, like 70 percent of them are on youtube versus only about 50 percent on facebook for that younger demographic, which, which is interesting. Um, but anyway, so we're using varieties of the trueview ad format and kind of harnessing that massive audience and then harnessing what Google knows about it's users has got some amazing targeting options now on youtube and we're kind of combining that to create some, uh, some ad magic for people. So I, it, I know that most people kind of lean first to facebook because of all the data that's there.
Speaker 3: 04:18 What types, how does it compare from facebook to youtube? And you'd made mention earlier that you're actually seeing a lot of people starting to shift dollars from facebook to youtube. So kind of explain how that. Yeah. And so, you know, just to be fair, I think, I think facebook is so extremely powerful. I think most businesses need to use facebook. I don't know, facebook, myself, I've been at Google ads guy for forever and so it was a natural extension that, uh, I did the TV and radio back in the day as you alluded to as well. But, um, you know, some of the audience targeting is pretty comparable for youtube to facebook. So things like lookalike audiences as an example where, you know, you can upload your customer list to Facebook, they'll generate a lookalike audience for you. Google has something similar, only they call it a similar audience where you can upload, Hey, these are my buyers, these are my subscribers, these or whoever who will build a similar audience to that.
Speaker 3: 05:08 So that's nice. Um, any kind of interest based targeting. So, so all of the interest based targeting you can do on facebook, you can do something similar on, on Google. Um, in fact, one of my favorite audience types is called a custom affinity audience and that's where you can go grab websites that you feel like your ideal customer, likely frequency. So it could be, you know, if we're in the workout space, it could be, you know, the particular brand of, of a workout site, you're looking for a different crossfit websites and things like that or um, you know, it can be conservative news websites if you got an, you know, an outdoor product or something like that. So you're, you're building a list of a and you're telling Google, hey, build an audience for me, like those people to visit these websites. And of course Google knows who visits every website, right?
Speaker 3: 05:55 So they can build that list. I'm really, well now one of the things that Google has the facebook does not have is what's called a intent based targeting and one singular audience called it customer intent audience. And that's where you can target people on Youtube based on their google search history. So I don't know about you. Yeah. So this is just totally awesome. So do you, Dave, do you, are you a youtube user? Do you get on youtube much? Not as much as I as my kids there. Yeah. That's cool. So, uh, you know, when I'm on Youtube I'm mainly looking at music videos of my kids don't that, that I think this does line up with that trend I talked about earlier, like the 13 to 17 year olds, they're, they're all over youtube. My kids are looking at life hack videos and how to fix your hair and how to pick up girls.
Speaker 3: 06:42 My team looking at things like that, I'm usually looking at like a music video or sports or, or how to or something like that. My search behavior on Google's very different. Like I'll search for every product that I want on Google and stuff. Well now you can target people based on what they're searching for on Google when they're on youtube. So if we've got someone who's selling a, you know, some type of apparel, a winter coats a week, we could then pull a list of top keywords that someone might be typing in on Google. We can then give that to google, build an audience around that, and then those people, the next time they're on youtube, we can run our pre roll or instream ad to that audience. It, it is phenomenal and there's so many creative ways you can approach that. For most of our clients, that's the best audience to run it or, or close to it, a accustomed intent audience because you can kind of, based on the keywords you, you're using kind of pick people at different stages of the funnel and then, and then so you know, they're there at least in the market to some degree.
Speaker 3: 07:44 Then you hit them with a powerful video ad. It's just, it's an awesome combination. Is that work best for physical products or does it, does it matter? Well, I don't know that it matters. I mean I've seen some case studies so we were a google premier partner and we have our google reps come into our offices about four times a year and they do case studies and stuff and I got, I got to read a case study from Hawaiian Airlines and they're using this type of targeting and it's phenomenally well for them. Uh, but. But my agency, we work with physical product sellers. That's what we do. That's what I know. But it, it'll work for any business. I'm pretty confident, I mean as long as the, as long as your message is clearly communicated visually, as long as, as long as video is a good medium to communicate your message that I think you can, you can find the targeting that, that works for your business. But I mean, you know, we're, we're doing, uh, we're talking about Ezra firestone prior to hitting record. Good friend of mine been, been doing all his google traffic now for years. We run all the youtube for boom cosmetics. So yeah. Yeah. So, and then that's it. You guys are doing all that. Yeah. So of really. Well for them it was all hands. So I'm going to have to.
Speaker 3: 08:56 Yeah. You know, so he now he's a smart marketer obviously when that same company, but he definitely inspires a lot of things, but we're the ones kind of pressing the buttons and pulling the levers. So it could be skincare, it could be a wedding ring, it could be auto product, it could be, you know, we're, we're all over the map, but, but no, I think if I wasn't, if I owned a business, if I was using click funnels, like I know most of your listeners are, if my story can be told, well visually I would try, I would try youtube to see if it see if it would work well for a person who wants to kind of get started on that. Where do they go and how long did the videos you have to be, how professional they have to be made, that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3: 09:40 Yeah. Great question. So the, the video does have to be good and what I mean by that is it has to resonate, you know, it has to compel someone to say who I one VAT or, or at least I want to check that out. I want to look a little bit further at that product or that service. So it does have to be compelling. It does not have to cost you a fortune and I would almost advise against that. Um, you know, we, um, we do ecommerce for a long time. One of my, uh, favorite traffic sources, Google shopping, I don't know if he ever spend with Google shopping, but the product listing ads you searched for job search for a particular type of watch and then you get the little product images and stuff. Those ads work almost, no matter what, like if you have a, um, you know, if you're kind of bad at Google shopping, it'll still work pretty well for you.
Speaker 3: 10:30 Uh, not the case with Youtube, you know, if you throw up a, a crummy video that just doesn't move people, it's not going to work. It just isn't. Um, we, we've seen, you know, we're talking about audiences earlier and how important that is. I've seen though where we get the same audience targeting, but two different ads, one that really connects with people, one that doesn't and the results are staggering. No one will, one will never get off the ground and the other one will scale to, you know, spending $8,000 a day, you know, um, profitably. So, uh, there, there are some principals there. I mean, I think you need to, you need to hook people in the first five seconds, you to communicate a clear benefit. You'd have some testimonial elements you need to overcome, objections, you'd have a clear call to action, but it doesn't have to be, you don't have to hire some fancy ad agency to come and shoot this, this video, uh, one of, one of the best videos we're running now for a client.
Speaker 3: 11:22 It's 100 percent client testimonials shot with an iphone or whatever, phone, iphone, android mixing there too, which is fine. But, you know, we got all these clips of customer St Wow. Look at this product and this application that we love this. So we just, we mix those together with a cool intro, cool outro, and that's it. And it works. So there's not like a set, you know, you don't even have explosions and, and, and special special effects and CGI and stuff like that. It just, it needs to resonate with. So it does have to be a good ad, but it does not have to be expensive. Um, and, and so, and then you ask about ideal link. I'm the way, the way the pricing works, the way you're billed as an advertiser, someone has to watch at least 30 seconds of the commercial, uh, before you build the 30 seconds or the whole video, whichever comes first.
Speaker 3: 12:11 Um, you know, on, on facebook, facebook counts of you after three seconds, I believe. So that's another kind of difference in the two. Youtube counts as a view if it's, if it's over 30 or the whole video, uh, but a lot of the videos we're seeing that work are in that, you know, 30 to 92nd range. Most of that are a little over a minute. Really. The key is, are you saying enough? Are you saying enough to make someone say, hey, this is different, this is unique. I want to find out more about it. Sometimes you can't quite do that in 30 seconds. Um, you know, if you go, if you look at like the, you know, with the harmon brothers have done or like, like the click funnels video. Did you guys have made, you know, um, those were what, like two to three minutes kind of harm brothers.
Speaker 3: 12:54 And most of the videos about three minutes, you know, and that's, that can work too, a lot of our clients that they're their most successful videos or in the minute to minute 30 range. Um, and then uh, but we have some people like Ezra, you know, we've, we've tested some videos that are, that are north of five minutes a really. Yeah. Yeah. But, but I would say like stick within that kind of 60 to 92nd range is ideal. Yeah. That's fantastic. So when you're looking at the creation of that, I know it's typically, how long do you have before you skip the ad? Is it, it's five seconds. So pretty captivating those first five seconds to say I'm willing to eat the rest of this. Yeah. And my philosophy is we people out like may make some kind of statement or, or do something in the first five seconds where people that aren't interested, they'll click skip, right?
Speaker 3: 13:47 Because if they're not actually you want to pay for it. Right? You've got that option here to not pay for someone if they're not interested. So I like to open with a, with a question with some kind of grabbing statement, like make it pretty clear right up front, you know, what you're doing, what, what it's about. This is about this new type of wedding ring or this is about this new skincare product or whatever it may make that clear right from the get go and you do have, you do have five seconds. So we had one client a show us, so they were in the outdoor space and they showed us this video that the first five seconds was the animation of their logo. The logo was doing all this stuff. We're like, yeah, that's not going to work. Nobody, nobody cares about your logo a have the logo there.
Speaker 3: 14:29 You might get some brand again, but do something to capture them. Some kind of benefit statement, some kind of question, some kind of a, are you tired of this, you know, uh, can, can you not sleep at night because of x or whatever. Like some kind of something to arrest someone in those first five seconds that somebody that also makes someone who would say, no, I don't care about that product. Make them skip. That's great. Let's, let's get those people to move on and let's not, let's not for them. So yeah, you got five seconds. So that, that, that is also interesting to think about, okay, here's the angle of my commercial here, the benefits I'm going to work in, what's my opener going to be? And, and that's where I think you lead with a question or, or a testimonial or, or, or some kind of a, a grabber, you know, never do this again.
Speaker 3: 15:11 Or, or what if you could avoid this forever? What if you could stop paying so much for whatever. So something to really hook them right in the right at the beginning is important. Back to the good old direct response marketing headlines, man. It is, it is. And so, you know, this can be a, this could be a spokesperson, you know, on camera looking at you saying this directly. It could be a combination of of that and text on the screen. I like. I like a combination typically, but yeah, it's so cool. I'm, I'm a, I'm a student of direct response. I know you are as well Dave, and I've read some of the classes even got like 22 immutable laws of branding on my desk and so Joseph sugarman books of course way back when, like triggers. That's an awesome book. Triggers. But anyway, a lot of the principles still apply, right?
Speaker 3: 15:57 Like, like human nature hasn't changed a whole lot and people still either want to avoid pain or gain pleasure. Right. So thinking about these appeals a bit, none of that changes. It's just a new format and in a new medium and a new, you know, new audience targeting and things like that. But so, but yeah, our philosophy is let's, let's build it with direct response elements, but let's also build your brand in the process because one of the interesting side benefits, Dave, the worst thing is after someone runs on youtube a lot where we're usually running youtube campaigns in Google ads, so search and shopping stuff after they run youtube for three or four or five weeks, they're branded search campaigns will often increase by double. So people say, I didn't know if that was just Google's algorithm basically rewarding you for having spent money.
Speaker 3: 16:47 There are. So yeah, probably not. But what, what, uh, what, what they are doing is, you know, you have more people that are aware of your product, so now they're searching for you. So that's cool. Still top of funnel for the book. We're talking about it. Yeah. So now I'm, I'm introduced to your product. I'm not ready to buy right now, but if I am interested in my next step is probably to go search for it. So we had one client who got pretty aggressive with youtube and they're branded campaigns. So people searching for them by name, uh, increased by four x in the first month and then they're not a small brand. Um, so it was really interesting. But, um, but yeah, it's one of those things that it does bleed over into other, other channels as well. So it's kind of a kind of a halo effect, you know, from, from Youtube ads.
Speaker 3: 17:30 I love that. So when a person's on a youtube ad, is it, are you able to click the link? How do they, what's ease way of getting it from Youtube off youtube to where you want them to go? Yep. So there are there kind of three main campaigns, subtypes when you're running trueview. So Trivia, again, they're the, they're the instream are those pre roll videos we've been talking about. So there's, there's, um, standard trueview, which there's, you can have like a little companion banner banner that's off to the side. You have kind of a link over the video. People can click on that and go to your site or your channel or whatever you wanna do. So that's okay. That's kind of, that's been around a while. It's, it's okay. Um, the next option is called Tru Vue for shopping. So this is again for physical product businesses, but it's a combination of those youtube ads and then Google shopping.
Speaker 3: 18:18 So often the upper right or over the video you've got your product listing ads or, or Google shopping ads. Um, but my favorite format and this will work for ecommerce or non ecommerce is what's called truview for action and that's where in the upper right on desktop or over the video and mobile, you've got a strong call to action button. So it's learn more. Shop now, save now whenever you get to control that button and there's a companion banner and then you put a headline there too. So it's pretty prepared against some good real estate there. And the beauty of that format is you can actually bid on a CPA target. So yeah, you can tell Google, hey, I'm willing, I want to, I want to hit the CBA target now you're going to pay for the impressions and the clicks like, so you're not, you're not only paying a CPA.
Speaker 3: 19:04 That's some confusion people have. But I found Google is pretty good at hitting that CPA target. If you have good audience targeting in a good video overtime you can, you can hit your CPA target. Um, so, so that attribute for action is typically the best way. Like if you're, if you're looking to build your funnel to send people into the top of your funnel or, or whatever, I would, I would probably choose truview for action as the campaign subtype. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. As you take a look at that, you've been doing this a long time. What are some of the tips for people as far as creating the video itself? What? Any specific tips you'd say as far as the video goes? And we kind of in an odd route, a couple of different things, but what specific. Yeah, take, take your time there.
Speaker 3: 19:48 Um, another one of my favorite, a formats to follow for video is just interjecting a bunch of customer testimonials. Right? So that there's a great video for grammarly. Have you ever seen grammarly? They're not a client or anything, but they, it's software that helps you with your grammar mistakes. So you can, you can blue, it's just an add onto your browser, but as you're typing in in huge email or whatever, it's going to correct your mistakes for you, which is handy for a lot of people. Um, so the, the video that they have that they run on youtube, it's really just, it's like a bunch of different scenarios. It's the college student, it's the professional, you know, up and comer. It's the guy looking to get a job and there is just saying, you know, it's nice when I'm sending my email for my, my, my resume with my resume to catch all the mistakes that I'm making or it catches mistakes I didn't even know I was making.
Speaker 3: 20:39 So it kind of, as you look at it, it's like a combination of the most commented on things. So you kind of look at what are people saying about your product and structure that structure, the ad that way. Um, so a couple of things that I would consider is one, I would, I would show the ad to people that are in your market before you run it. So, so, so I have some people preview it and not, not like employees or, or just friends or whatever, but people who are in your market and ask them, you know, what their, what their thoughts are, feelings are things like that. Um, uh, but, but going back to some of the things I mentioned before, you know, it's got to have that arresting opener. It's got to be very benefit oriented and lead with the strongest benefit, you know.
Speaker 3: 21:19 So like Geico as an example, you know, they're always talking about cost savings. So 50 percent or 50 minutes could save you 15 percent or more on car insurance. Don't talk about all the other stuff as much the hammer on that, that cost savings because they've determined that's what causes people to switch. That's the trigger that causes someone to pick up the phone or, or we're going line. And so what is the strongest benefit for your product? Lead with that hammer on that. Come back to that, uh, get some social proof in there. So, so I like, I like endorsements, like actual customer testimonials. Um, and then I like some kind of objection handling. So if you think about these are the top one to two to three objections that someone has so, so, and again you kind of go back to your customer on this where people say, Hey, I'm worried that this is going to break too soon or will it last or whatever.
Speaker 3: 22:07 And so, so if the, if that's a concern, you talk about your guarantee, you know that hey we've got a, we've got a 10 year guarantee or whatever. No, no questions asked, that type of thing. So what are the objections someone has bring those up and answer those, solve those right there in the video and then, and then some kind of strong call to action. So it's always interesting to me like you wouldn't think this would be necessary but like a video with a call to action versus one without the differences is pretty drastic. Like even just a, hey, check it out now, go, go and you design your own whatever, you know, go to our little style guide and design your own thing or go download this report or go check this out or go get free shipping or go get, go get five of these triathlons and back the ones that don't fit or something like that.
Speaker 3: 22:50 Um, so some strong call to action. You got to end with that. Um, and, and then one other kind of little tip that we sometimes do is we'll now we kinda got a pretty good sense like, hey, this video is likely to work a, nobody's ever always right there you got it, you had a test that you get to know are you going to get the market decides ultimately not, not us as marketers, but um, we'll often run ads to our remarketing audiences first just to see like, what is he like, you know, because likely it's not going to just crash and burn. You're going to spend that much money, but you can at least see, okay, what's the view rate? Are People engaging with us? We, you know, uh, and, and then then decide, okay, this probably isn't worth rolling out to a bigger audience at this point. Um, so yeah, just just go a couple of tips and. But I can totally geek out on video production all day. I, we don't do video production just, just so you know, we're, we're more on the running the campaign side and stuff, but I love, I love the creative aspect and feel like got a pretty good handle on what, what works and what doesn't. So
Speaker 2: 23:47 that's it. That's awesome. I know it was funny when we were even just doing some of the content that we put out there on youtube, like our funnel hacker TV. At first we didn't even make, make any mention as far as make sure you subscribe down below next episode or there like that. It's been crazy. Just that, just tell them to subscribe or to ring the Bell and get notifications. Those little tiny things totally changed the whole game. For us. It is sit down like 50 or 60 videos before we ever thought we should tell them what the video, even though it's free, even though it's free
Speaker 3: 24:18 and even though the subscribe button is there, they still need to be told. It's like people need permission or they need to know like that's what you want them to do. Or maybe they're just not thinking about it, but you make it a simple ask a. I mean it seems like it shouldn't have to be that way, but. But it is so yeah, make the ask, make that call to action of some kind. It'll make a huge difference.
Speaker 2: 24:40 Well that's awesome. Well Brett, anything else before we kind of wrap things up here?
Speaker 3: 24:44 Man, it's just uh, you know, I think if you have the ability, if you have a product that works for video, which most do, if you tell your story in a unique way through video, I think now's the time to test youtube. It's still in its early stages. There's not a lot of people are, you know, compared to facebook on a lot of people advertising on youtube, you know, facebook is running into, you know, Max add capacity in the newsfeed is what I'm hearing a lot of cases and prices are going up and things like that. And again, I'm not, I'm not disparaging facebook. We use facebook, we love it. There's almost unlimited inventory on, on youtube too and just, just some ideas and so many people. So if you have a good video, if you have a good funnel built out, I think now's the time to test youtube, you know, and, and maybe one of the things you do is you get, get on and start, start kind of clicking around on youtube and look for some of those good pre roll videos, the videos that strike you and capture you and uh, and, and, and kind of look to mimic those.
Speaker 3: 25:43 So.
Speaker 2: 25:45 Well that's awesome. But I appreciate it. A 10 again, if people want to find out more information, where do they go?
Speaker 3: 25:50 Yeah, best place is just go over to omg commerce.com. That's our, our sites. Check that out there, get some resources and stuff. You can also google me, Brett Curry, a cso of my articles and stuff on youtube and Google shopping and whatnot, and then I do have a podcast, a ecommerce evolution, so we talk all things ecommerce, so check that out as well.
Speaker 2: 26:10 Awesome. Well Brad, again, so great. Can you again, we'll connect. I'm sure one of the seminars or events that were at. I'm sure we'll see each other around, so thanks again for your time. Appreciate it.
Speaker 3: 26:20 Yeah, really glad to be here. Thanks for the invite and we'll. We'll chat soon.
Speaker 4: 26:24 Hey everybody. Thank you so much for taking the time to listen to podcasts. If you don't mind, could you please share this with others, rate and review this podcast on itunes. It means the world to me or I'm trying to get to as a million downloads here in the next few months and just crush through over $650,000 and I just want to get that next few 100 so we can get to a million downloads and see really what I can do to help improve and and get this out to more people. At the same time, if there's a topic, there's something you'd like me to share or someone you'd like me to interview, by all means, just reach out to me on facebook. You can pm me and I'm more than happy to take any of your feedback as well as at the people like me to interview more than happy to reach out and have that conversation with you. So again, go to Itunes, rate and review this, share this podcast with others and let me know how else I can improve this or can do to make this better for you guys. Thanks.
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